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07 Sep 05 - 12:43 PM (#1558584) Subject: Lyr Req: 'Bonny Portmore' in Gaelic From: Leeder I'm back after a long absence -- a couple of computer crashes, my wife's illness (a battle with breast cancer, seemingly successful so far, 15 months after treatment), etc. I recently sang "Bonny Portmore" at an ecological festival (in Calgary, a first-time festival called ECOFEST), tying it in with deforestation. A woman in the audience had grown up in Portmore, Ireland, and had heard the song since childhood, but only in Gaelic, and she didn't know Gaelic, so didn't know what the song was about. She was thrilled to hear English lyrics and to learn what the song is about. Now I'm on a quest to find the Irish lyrics. I have friends who speak the language and can interpret them for me. By the way, my English version comes from Paddy Tutty, who brought the song to Canada. Loreena McKennit's version comes substantially from her. |
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10 Oct 05 - 11:04 PM (#1580676) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bonny Portmore (in Gaelic) From: Leeder In case anyone's following this, I've learned from an Irish scholar that the melody was used for several Gaelic songs, none of which is a counterpart of the English lyrics that I know. |
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10 Oct 05 - 11:28 PM (#1580695) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bonny Portmore (in Gaelic) From: Peace Glad to hesar about your wife's success, Leeder. All the best to both of you. I will dig. |
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11 Oct 05 - 09:14 PM (#1581456) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bonny Portmore (in Gaelic) From: David Ingerson I am surprised to hear that there is an Irish language version of this song. Of course, maybe it has been translated from the English, as a number of other songs have been. This was one of my favorite songs when I started singing Irish songs, so when I first went to Ireland in 1982, I went to the site. If my memory serves me correctly, the bus line went as far as Upper Ballindary so I walked to Lower Ballindary, where the remains of the castle still lie. (I don't remember any townland named Portmore, although Lough Beag is named Lake(?) Portmore in English.) I got into conversation with an old man on the side of the road, mentioned the song, and he said that it was a mighty song and long, too--had twenty verses or so. Since I knew only the three verses listed above from the O'Boyle book, I was intrigued and determined to find the rest of them. I won't go into the long story about the many welcoming and accommodating locals I met those two days, but I did eventually find the entire song (which is listed on another thread, I believe), and stood on the foundation stones of Portmore Castle itself. In all that time I never heard of an Irish version. My impression was that the Lower Ballindary area was pretty strongly Protestant and that there was no Irish spoken in the area. Of course, I could well be wrong about that. (And, yes, I am aware that some Protestants speak Irish, but I believe it's a safe generalization that there is little Irish spoken in Protestant areas.) Also, a song in praise of an English castle would not likely be written in Irish. Could there be another Portmore? Or another song in Irish to the same tune? Cheers, David |
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12 Oct 05 - 06:58 PM (#1581786) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Bonny Portmore (in Gaelic) From: Malcolm Douglas Bonny Portmore was originally written in English, but the tune has been used for plenty of other songs; the ones I know of are also in English, but I don't doubt that there are Gaelic songs that use it as well. "Leeder" has already said that his friend has told him that none of those is a "counterpart" of Portmore, so that isn't an issue. Portmore was not a castle but a mansion house; I have no idea where Lord Conway was born, but there would be no inconsistency in a Gaelic song in praise of such. David is, I suspect, making anachronistic assumptions. The most useful thread on Portmore is Bonny Portmore: historical background (it also contains a link to another which should also be read); be aware that, at the time of writing, the messages will appear out of order, so you need to look at the dates in order to follow the discussion. For some other songs using a form of the same tune, see Info on Pretty Saro?. None of that is any help with Irish Gaelic songs that use the tune, I'm afraid, but there are people here who should be able to help with that. Meanwhile, did your "Irish scholar" tell you what any of those songs were called? It would help if we knew. |