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14 Sep 05 - 12:48 AM (#1563243) Subject: Lyr Add: Flieg, Deutsche Fahne Flieg From: chico
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14 Sep 05 - 07:08 PM (#1563848) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Flieg, Deutsche Fahne Flieg From: michaelr This is a Nazi propaganda song from the 1930s. What is your point in posting it here? Are we to call this folk music?? |
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15 Sep 05 - 02:41 AM (#1564036) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Flieg, Deutsche Fahne Flieg From: Joe Offer Well, I can see value in discussing the song - but this one was just dumped here, with no attribution and no discussion. Context is important. -Joe Offer- |
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15 Sep 05 - 03:39 AM (#1564042) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Flieg, Deutsche Fahne Flieg From: Wilfried Schaum Where am I here? I always thought in a folk forum. And now chico is molesting us with Nazi propaganda, not for the first time! And very poor poetry, too. There are so many valuable German songs he could post here, but no - always propaganda. I loathe it, my family had to endure a lot under the Nazis, and I don't want to meet this brow shit especially here. Since these "soldiers" use spades and as peasants are cultivating the soil, it seems to be a song for the Reichsarbeitsdienst (RAD) = Working Service. |
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15 Sep 05 - 04:35 AM (#1564077) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Flieg, Deutsche Fahne Flieg From: MartinRyan Good to see that the extreme Left has no monopoly on poor poetry... As ever, Joe is succinct and to the point. A discussion of how song is often used for, initially, direct motivational purposes and, later, for less direct, semi-nostalgic propaganda (as, perhaps, here), by "all" sides, could be interesting. Reading poor translation of poor lyrics is not! Regards p.s. The "context" ads produced by this thread show some of the risks. Could that be the point? |
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15 Sep 05 - 07:26 AM (#1564156) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Flieg, Deutsche Fahne Flieg From: Wolfgang Joe may be right with the context, but on a very subjective personal level seeing this song makes me feel sick. Wolfgang |
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15 Sep 05 - 09:37 AM (#1564221) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Flieg, Deutsche Fahne Flieg From: The Fooles Troupe The 'context ads' for me were... Playing the guitar? Software that helps you to get chords for any song. Free Demo. Guitar Chords I can show you how to play like a pro in 45 minutes. Interested? |
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15 Sep 05 - 04:51 PM (#1564552) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Flieg, Deutsche Fahne Flieg From: GUEST,Martin Ryan Foolestroupe I got an offer to investigate the history of the swastika! Regards p.s. Irish 'catters can probably estimate my age from the fact that the first image drawn up in my head by mention of a swastika is of a small electric van.... |
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15 Sep 05 - 08:53 PM (#1564733) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Flieg, Deutsche Fahne Flieg From: chico The fact that you want to surpress this song is reason enough for its inclusion. If a song makes you sick, there is something wrong with you, not the music. |
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15 Sep 05 - 09:10 PM (#1564745) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Flieg, Deutsche Fahne Flieg From: Joe Offer So, Chico, now that you've said that, do you have anything intelligent to say about the song and its partial translation - like where it came from, and perhaps how it might be related to "Die Fahne Hoch" ("Horst Wessel Lied")? Otherwise, it does seem that you're just dumping lyrics on us simply for the sake of dumping. I've asked you before to cite your sources - that's a standard thing around here - but so far, you've failed to do that most of the time. Without context, lyrics are well-nigh worthless. -Joe Offer- |
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15 Sep 05 - 09:58 PM (#1564776) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Flieg, Deutsche Fahne Flieg From: GUEST,.gargoyle CHICO - Fellow, Comrade, Pal, Citizen of the Net
Hearty Greetings and well met!!!!
The MudCat is peculiar - and it is encouraging to view that you are not intimidated.
IF....your posting had been, Maoist, Maxist, Trot/Len-ist, it would have been greeted by the genial "folk-artists" as a welcome breath of fresh aire.
FOLK (personaly, in postings years ago, I believe anything EUROPEAN should be banned from a place dedicating itself to Blues/Am-Folk) but the moderators do not follow their original mission statement...and THEREFORE....MudCat Folkcan begin anywhere....and it seems that most current MudCat lyric postings are less than 30 years old...therefore, yours (by current standards) is between mid-and-genuine "antique" (antique=100 years.)
It would be VERY NICE - if you could (for academic purposes) give a "song-book", "leaf-let", "history-text", "dying grandmother", and date, location, context....to your postings.
Obviously, you have a SOURCE (and a very good one - these are songs I do not know)and your material is EXCELLENT (but only useful, if original sources are given.)
By citing a source - you would be less "inflamatory" and more "academic" - however, by being less "inflamatory" your posting would have never caught my attention.
You elect a Spick-nomulcur and post German lyrics...what gives?
Sincerely,
Thank you for including translations for the Germanic-Challenged. |
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15 Sep 05 - 10:09 PM (#1564782) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Flieg, Deutsche Fahne Flieg From: GUEST,.gargoyle One of my original introductions to the BEAUTY of the MC...came from a request for "The Horst Wessel Song" and a very honest - true - reply that fulfilled the request.
It would be a sad-day to discover that a free exchange of musical-folk-ideas had been compromised by a head-wound to Spiegle Productions.
Sincerely, |
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16 Sep 05 - 09:51 AM (#1564862) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Flieg, Deutsche Fahne Flieg From: Paul Burke Skyoozy me, what are 'context ads'?
-Joe Offer- |
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16 Sep 05 - 10:17 AM (#1564886) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Flieg, Deutsche Fahne Flieg From: Wilfried Schaum As I stated before, the song is cheap Nazi propaganda with bad poetry. It is not folk and doesn't belong here in this man's humble opinion. It is not a question of freedom of speech, but of quality standards. gargoyle - a little "scientific" information is helpful for the researcher, and good style begins with correct orthography. That Nazi songs are repelled, but Communist songs are welcome here is a bloody nonsense; might be that only better red songs are listed here. A song I will never will sing is "Die Fahne hoch" - but I must confess that it is well written,truly folk, and the tune is true folk, too. I'm just turning against being dumped with cheap propaganda instead of folk. |
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16 Sep 05 - 10:44 AM (#1564913) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Flieg, Deutsche Fahne Flieg From: Paul Burke That Nazi songs are repelled, but Communist songs are welcome here is a bloody nonsense; might be that only better red songs are listed here. This idea that nazis and communitsts are equivalent is persistently promoted by the right and lazily accepted by liberals. It's simply not true. Stalin certainly perverted the Russian revolution; but the communists, the supporters of that revolution, were not fighting to achieve the purges, mass murders, gulags and oppression that he imposed on them after 1935. Exactly the opposite- liberation of all was their goal. From about 1923 to 1932 Russia was reasonably successfully working towards this. Whereas the destruction of the Jews and enslavement of Slavs was the openly stated aim of the NS from its foundation. Many Germans accepted this as the way to achieve economic prosperity for their country, and I like to believe that most did not envisage that it would lead to the Final Solution, but to an ethnic cleansing by migration. At best they were ignorant and selfish. |
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16 Sep 05 - 11:01 AM (#1564931) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Flieg, Deutsche Fahne Flieg From: Wilfried Schaum This idea that nazis and communitsts are equivalent is persistently promoted by the right and lazily accepted by liberals. Paul - I must contradict. We have seen the "real existing socialism" in East Germany, and what I experienced there when visiting fitted exactly my mother's tales of Nazi Germany. You had only to change the shirts from brown to blue. The mechanisms of a totalitarian state are the same everywhere, and totalitarian a communist state must be in the end - only the communists are owning the ultimate truth. What you say about the early Russian revolutionarians certainly is true, but so it was with a lot of early national socialists in Germany. Surely nobody knew in advance what should become of the revolution under Stalin, while the readers of Hitler's "Mein Kampf" could know what would happen. But unfortunately only very few undertook the labour to read this book. BTW, even the revolutionary Russia had its antisemitism. An autonomous rayon for the Jewish minority was granted (Birobidjan) - but at the fringes of Eastern Siberia, with the capital hundreds of miles away (grin). But the early Red Army had the better fighting songs. |
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16 Sep 05 - 06:49 PM (#1565149) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Flieg, Deutsche Fahne Flieg From: GUEST Chico should go back to German 101, as his reading comprehension is kinda hurtin'. The "Germanic-Challenged" -- if they feel a desperate need for this rubbish -- would do better to get their Nazi propaganda songs elsewhere. (Or to get over the inclination, which would be the preferable option.) b. |
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16 Sep 05 - 08:24 PM (#1565200) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Flieg, Deutsche Fahne Flieg From: GUEST,.gargoyle Chico - you did well - please continue.
As long as some of the knee-jerkers want the baby to follow the bath-water - we should probably condem the European music camps advertised so extensively in the forum - they may have Aryian roots stretching back to Singing-Weeks.
Come on - poetic/musical quality is seldom given a second thought when it comes to "Pushing the Damper In/Out" - or "The Shamrock is Forbid by Law" -
Youth Welfare in Germany John Taylor, 1936, Bard-Ward Company, Nashville, p 102.
"The value of folk singing and dancing in the daily life of the youth has long been recognized in Germany. Under the Republic much time and money was devoted to the furthering of this part of the welfare program. If anything, we may expect additional emphasis in the field from the National Socialist administration. Courses for the training of youth leaders in this field as well as for the youth themselves have been held steadily during the past ten years. The so-called music weeks (Singwochen) have played a goodly part in the welfare program.
"Hirtseifer, the Minister of Welfare under the Republic, was especially interest in song and dance - it was a personal hobby. The Nazis are continuing this type of work in the Hitler-Youth quite extensively.
(In true Germanic presicion - a table of years, districts and enrollment numbers for courses in singing in Prussia is printed.)
"Each course was organized as an individual unit with much emphasis on the German idea of educative living - a group of individuals living and working and learning together....
"....Emphasis is placed upon the education of the German youth away from the so-called Negro and jazz music, as well as the modern dance.
Sincerely, |
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17 Sep 05 - 09:24 PM (#1565791) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Flieg, Deutsche Fahne Flieg From: GUEST Urve Lippus MUSIC IN THE SOVIET ESTONIA. Although soviet powers started reorganizing musical life immediately in 1940, especially in the field based on the activities of the societies, the time to carry out fundamental changes was too short. An important breaking point was the year 1944, when a lot of people playing an active role in the musical life fled the country (Olav Roots, Eduard Tubin, Juhan Aavik etc.). * The real reorganization of the musical life and education by the soviet way began, imprisonment and deportation (e.g. Riho Päts, Alfred Karindi, Tuudur Vettik - the organizers of the first Song Festival after the war), decision of 1948 and witch hunt and discharging of bourgeois nationalists.... the prohibiting of church essentially raised the sacral function of classical music. That brought along a vacuum of not only religious but also sacral emotions http://www.okupatsioon.ee/english/overviews/index.html |
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05 Feb 14 - 07:41 AM (#3598488) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Flieg, Deutsche Fahne Flieg From: GUEST,Lukas Wunderschöne Musik mit einem unschuldigen Text. And I have nothing to do with National Socialism. The song is no propaganda, the sound of the song is one from musicians forced to fight and belive something. Not a sound of people willing to kill. |
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05 Feb 14 - 01:50 PM (#3598595) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Flieg, Deutsche Fahne Flieg From: Q (Frank Staplin) I would like to know the history of this marching song. It was used by the Wehrmacht, but may be pre-Nazi era. It is included under Deutsche Volkslieder (German folksong) in ingeb.org, with German lyrics (Is this the original?). Some websites cite Lyrics by Hans Jürgen Nierentz, Music by Heinrich Steiner. The following translation is on several websites, with the heading English translation by "Arminius 1871.." (The gray uniform does not seem to be the Wehrmacht M42 gray field uniform, so the lyrics of this version seems to be post 1935, and the composers listed above belonged to that era. Fly, German Flag, Fly! Soldier, my friend, prepare your steps, comrade! Step under the guns! So everybody has to be strong, comrade, To honour our fatherland. To the peace serves the grey uniform and not to the war of pain. We are bringing forth a new era in our young hearts. The song at www.ingeb.org: (I will post only the 1st. verse and chorus) Flieg, deutsche Fahne, flieg! Soldat, Kamerad, fass Tritt Kamerad, Tritt unter die Gewehre! So muss ein jeder mit, Kamerad, Dem Vaterland zur Ehre! Dem Frieden dient das graue Kleid Eud nicht dem Krieg des Schmerzen. Wir tragen eine neue Zeit In unsern jungen Herzen. Cho,- Die Fahne hoch! Marschiert! Voran der Führer führt. Mit unsern Fahnen is der Sieg, Flieg, deutsche Fahne, flieg! Any information about the history would be welcome. |
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05 Feb 14 - 02:47 PM (#3598608) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Flieg, Deutsche Fahne Flieg From: GUEST,Grishka In Google Books: Titel Flieg', deutsche Fahne, flieg'!: Lied u. Marsch Autoren Heinrich Steiner, Hans Jürgen Nierentz Verlag Musikverl. Sanssouci, 1935 Länge 5 Seiten Obviously celebrating the newly founded Wehrmacht, soon to breach the Versailles Treaty openly: one line speaks about the spirit of the country, long lost and now harboured by the singers. Another line mentions victory, betraying the peacefulness as a mere lip service. "Der Fürer" - you know who that is. Otherwise a typical militarist propaganda song of the silliest kind, imaginable in other countries as well. |
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05 Feb 14 - 03:30 PM (#3598629) Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Flieg, Deutsche Fahne Flieg From: GUEST,Leadbelly Forget this shit. Nobody needs such songs. Solche Lieder gehören in den orcus der Geschichte. I don't understand threads about such bloody shit. Manfred, german. |