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Folk Map of the UK - new website

14 Nov 05 - 05:31 AM (#1604405)
Subject: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: jimL

I have embarked on a new project - a website which allows club, event, festival etc. organisers to "pin" their events on the map of the UK.

I have previewed this with the members of uk.music.folk newsgroup, and it is holding up well, so I am now inviting you to have a look at it too.

www.folkmap.co.uk/


14 Nov 05 - 05:37 AM (#1604411)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: greg stephens

WEll, it sounds a great scheme, but I have ntl cabletv internet access, and I couldnt see anything! Which is not uncommon on sites with any kind of complicated visual stuff.


14 Nov 05 - 05:51 AM (#1604416)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: Richard Bridge

I suspect there are a number of paranoids like me who have cookies OFF - full stop.


14 Nov 05 - 05:58 AM (#1604417)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: GUEST

I'm sure that folk north west would tell you where ther are about ten festivals and eighty clubs


14 Nov 05 - 06:05 AM (#1604423)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: Nick

Excellent idea and worked fine for me. I'll add a couple of venues on later once I've registered.


14 Nov 05 - 06:13 AM (#1604429)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: jimL

"I'm sure that folk north west would tell you where ther are about ten festivals and eighty clubs"

As it says in the site organisers need to post their own events, that's the only way to keep stuff current.


14 Nov 05 - 06:30 AM (#1604439)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: jimL

"I suspect there are a number of paranoids like me who have cookies OFF - full stop. "

I think the cookie is about the least dangerous thing in my life - I mean you can *choke* on /cornflakes/!

Scott Nealy from Sun Microsystems said "You *have* no privacy - get over it"

Seriously, the only cookie which this website uses contains your log-on identity, and expires after 24 hours.


14 Nov 05 - 07:11 AM (#1604458)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: Morticia

excellent, thank you!


14 Nov 05 - 07:19 AM (#1604462)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: MBSLynne

Looks brilliant to me. Nothing anywhere near us yet though. I'll put the NW Leicestershire Quarter sessions on when I get a minute

Love Lynne


14 Nov 05 - 07:28 AM (#1604470)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: GUEST,mick

the map's a great idea , but are you including Ireland in the UK ? It wouldn't go down well over here .


14 Nov 05 - 07:42 AM (#1604483)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: GUEST

Brilliant, and the zoom feature is spectacularly good.


14 Nov 05 - 07:43 AM (#1604485)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: gnomad

Excellent idea! A wee bit slow to load on dial-up, but with so much detail that is to be expected.

I will be alerting a few organisers to this one. Thanks to Jim for setting the thing going.


14 Nov 05 - 07:47 AM (#1604493)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: Leadfingers

Looks useful to me ! Just tell all the organisers you know about this facility so they can be included !


14 Nov 05 - 07:50 AM (#1604496)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: Mr Red

Very good idea.

There is no links page. This may happen in due course. It is what the web does best - it brings as many surfers as it diverts but it Brings more than not having any links. The trick is to get people to cross-link (reciprocate) - I try to do this on http://cresby.com but inevtiably I am more interested in the information so link to many people

- though if you have a Flash movie I may not - they tell us nothing text can't and usually are so poorly executed they take forever to load and have no bypass.

Can't tell if this site has Flash yet - because I am at work, but don't detect the giveaways..


14 Nov 05 - 09:39 AM (#1604565)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: jimL

"Can't tell if this site has Flash yet - because I am at work, but don't detect the giveaways.. "

Ha ha - no flash. I aim for fast loading - that's one of the reasons why the actual map isn't on the "landing" page - and it will get faster - this is, when all is said and done, a "first cut". I'm exposing it slowly to pick up any obvious glitches, because it's much easier to fix stuff when you're not dealing with masses of data. *And* I don't want to have to ask people to reinput their pin data, so the important thing at this stage is that the storage on the server doesn't have to change, and that the front end is useable /enough/.

J


15 Nov 05 - 05:21 AM (#1605334)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: jimL

====From: GUEST,mick - PM
Date: 14 Nov 05 - 07:28 AM

the map's a great idea , but are you including Ireland in the UK ? It wouldn't go down well over here . ====

Thanks for that - I've made it "UK and Eire" - will that be OK do you think?

cheers Jim


15 Nov 05 - 06:28 AM (#1605359)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: Bonnie Shaljean

I certainly liked what I could see of it, but it took AGES to download and then never completely did. I also tried clicking on some of the links but got fed up staring at a blank screen waiting for something to happen. I use Firefox, have Windows XP on a fairly powerful (new) home computer, and had Java & Javascript enabled, which I don't usually do. Cookies turned on also. Anyone else have these problems?

I'd like to be able to use it - it's a fantastic idea and what I could see of it looked great. Any suggestions, Jim?


15 Nov 05 - 07:47 AM (#1605385)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: Kevin Sheils

Strange Bonny. You seem to have a similar set up to me and I have no problems Are you on broadband or dial up?


15 Nov 05 - 07:47 AM (#1605386)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: Kevin Sheils

I mean Bonnie of course!!!!!!


15 Nov 05 - 07:58 AM (#1605398)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: Mr Happy

kept getting Slovakia!


15 Nov 05 - 08:10 AM (#1605414)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: jimL

>I use Firefox, have Windows XP on a fairly powerful (new) home computer,

Any up-to-date machine work - this is 3 year's old, though it was a beast in it's youth. It's much more to do with the internet connection.

>and had Java & Javascript enabled, which I don't usually do. Cookies >turned on also.

Java you don't need.

In Firefox you can set so that cookies expire when you close FF. - in tools-> option ->privacy -> cookies


>Anyone else have these problems?

>I'd like to be able to use it - it's a fantastic idea and what I >could see of it looked great. Any suggestions, Jim?

Well it takes less than one second from clicking the "Click to see the map" button to a completed download. (that's firefox)

IE is a good bit slower - say 7 seconds.

This is Windows XP, Athlon 1.7 GHz, 500Mb Memory on a 600Kb broadband connection.

I would suspect a firewall or virus checking problem.

JL


15 Nov 05 - 10:16 AM (#1605475)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: s&r

Current clubs

Stu


15 Nov 05 - 11:20 AM (#1605522)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: jimL

Thanks Stu, but this is absolutely *not* a place for people to shove in loads of possibly out of date data - see www.tykesnews.org.uk/filofolk which I also have the job of running - I have no idea what's up to date - and the only way to find out would be to ring up every single entry, and then do it again in 3 months time.

People have to maintain their own entries either directly or through an intermediary.Makes that clear on the website as well.


15 Nov 05 - 01:58 PM (#1605701)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: PennyBlack

Updated with the events we help run (and will keep them updated ;-)

had trouble correcting posts even though I followed the instructions, will see if it take time to update, if not I'll delete and re-post the corrected spellings Doh!

PB


15 Nov 05 - 03:39 PM (#1605764)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: Mr Red

Google Maps inform me I need IE 6

Which I have at work - but how the hell can I test my website if I install anything my target audience don't all have?

If Jim's folk maps don't work it may be a browser thing. And the thing about browsers is snooping and locking you in to their system. Be it M$ or Opera or Firefox. There is money in it for them.

If Google maps is so useful what ever happened to Streetmap and Multimap which work on all graphical browsers. And most of us know where a town is - and if not there is always a link to multimap - for locating which is what I do on cresby.com


15 Nov 05 - 04:19 PM (#1605798)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: Bonnie Shaljean

Nope - virus checking & firewall are not the problem. I'm on dial-up still - am in a farmhouse in rural Ireland, not Eircom's prime concern it seems.


15 Nov 05 - 04:39 PM (#1605817)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler

Looks good to me and came up very fast. I'll have a word with a couple of organisers and see if they want me to put details on for them (speak it quietly but I don't think they have the internet).
What happens if a club closes and nobody thinks to update your map. Do you have a time limit for entries so that details have to be resubmitted to keep things current?


16 Nov 05 - 07:54 AM (#1606313)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: treewind

"Do you have a time limit for entries...?"

On uk.music.folk somebody suggested a sort of "dead man's handle" device, where the submitter has to respond to a periodic email to confirm that the entry is still valid. No response, entry eventually dies (presumably after a few warnings have been sent and ignored)

Looks like a good idea to me if it can be done automatically.

Anahata


16 Nov 05 - 10:04 AM (#1606409)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: jimL

"Nope - virus checking & firewall are not the problem. I'm on dial-up still - am in a farmhouse in rural Ireland, not Eircom's prime concern it seems. "

Oh, well that's it - just dial up. Let's see, with firefox it takes around 2-5 secs to get the initial page of pins - that's mostly the map, I think. The pin data is trivial, and it will also depend on how many Americans are bashing Google's server - fewest in the AM.

Now if it takes say 5 seconds on 600 Kb, it will take erm erm at least a minute on 56Kb.

I have an idea how to make this more useful for people like you - won't happen straight away, but it's interesting. Thanks for trying.

I'll post here and in u.m.f. when I've come up with something.


16 Nov 05 - 10:09 AM (#1606413)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: jimL

"On uk.music.folk somebody suggested a sort of "dead man's handle" device, where the submitter has to respond to a periodic email to confirm that the entry is still valid. No response, entry eventually dies (presumably after a few warnings have been sent and ignored)

Looks like a good idea to me if it can be done automatically.

Anahata"

There will be - there will be an automatic "nag" email, which will just require a click on a link to confirm the event is still extant. This is why I'm keen that people who run events post for themselves, or for sessions say, that they are frequent members who know if the session is still running.

JL


16 Nov 05 - 10:19 AM (#1606426)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: jimL

>Google Maps inform me I need IE 6

Or Firefox, or Opera, or Mozilla, or Netscape ... latest versions - or Safari

>If Jim's folk maps don't work it may be a browser thing.

There's a clear explantion of what browsers will work on the website.

>If Google maps is so useful what ever happened to Streetmap and >Multimap which work on all graphical browsers.

I found this interesting explanation of just that here.


16 Nov 05 - 10:26 AM (#1606432)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: The Villan

I have posted my club on.

However, I never respond to e-mails asking me to click on a link, due to all the fraud e-mails.


16 Nov 05 - 11:06 AM (#1606458)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: Tannywheeler

Hey, wow, guys. All I have to do now is:
1)Win the lottery;
2)print out a bunch of different zoom-placements of the map;
3)renew my passport;
4)run down to my local, friendly neigborhood airport;
and--
5)INVADE GREAT BRITAIN!!!!! (just a tick--Hitler and his whole army couldn't do it...I know--I'll call Giok and Micca and Catsp. and get help.....)
I'll warn y'all if #1 happens.                   Tw


16 Nov 05 - 11:32 AM (#1606485)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: Lancashire Lad

Doesnt load using Mac native browser Safari nor on the Mac version of IE.

If it helps, I'm using
Max OSX 10.2.8

Safari 1.0.3
IE 5.2 for Mac

Tried with / without firewall
cookie enabled

Hope it helps, cos I'm sure this will be a valuable resource.
Cheers
LL


16 Nov 05 - 01:44 PM (#1606611)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: jimL

Thank you LL,

but the front page points you to the support forum, where you'll find what browsers work on Mac, etc see here

JL


16 Nov 05 - 02:17 PM (#1606629)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: GUEST,Dave M

Hi Jim, great idea and very useful. However I registered last night but I cannot log in, even though my info seems to be in the system as I cannot re register using the same info. Can people contact you without going through Mudcat


16 Nov 05 - 06:16 PM (#1606778)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: jimL

"Can people contact you without going through Mudcat "
Hello Dave,

Yes, the email address is a bit obscure - on the "help" page. Or, you can join the forum at www.folkmap.co.uk/forum.

This is the email.

But see item 10 here first

JL


16 Nov 05 - 06:41 PM (#1606790)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: Richard Bridge

"Seriously, the only cookie which this website uses contains your log-on identity, and expires after 24 hours."

Yeah. Other websites say that too, and how do I know it when I get a cookie warning?

You may be a trustworthy nice guy (and the idea is great) but how do I know?

If you want really really have to plant cookies, put a prominent warning on your front page. This may be legally necessary.


17 Nov 05 - 03:47 AM (#1607038)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: GUEST,Greycap

Jim,
I like it,
Roger Knowles


17 Nov 05 - 04:15 AM (#1607050)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: Gervase

Works very well on a middle-aged Mac running Safari 1.3.1 on OSX v 10.3.9. Looks like this could turn into an excellent resource - congrats Jim!


17 Nov 05 - 04:59 AM (#1607064)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: jimL

Thanks to Roger and Gervase for the kind words...

With reference to the use of cookies, (I now find I've set mine to expire one hour after last use) - anyone would think they were the "black spot" - see the FAQ

cheers, Jim


17 Nov 05 - 09:25 AM (#1607198)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: GUEST,mick

Jim , UK and Eire or just Ireland would be fine . Could you include The Cobblestones ,Smithfield , Dublin in the map . Session venues tend to move about in Dublin ,but the Cobblestones has been going for a few years now and hopefully will be around for a lot longer


17 Nov 05 - 10:31 AM (#1607259)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: jimL

Could you include The Cobblestones ,Smithfield , Dublin in the map . Session venues tend to move about in Dublin ,but the Cobblestones has been going for a few years now and hopefully will be around for a lot longer

Hi Mick. The idea is that someone associated with the club, session or event should do it themselves, so that they control their own "pin" - and destiny :-)!


17 Nov 05 - 12:16 PM (#1607334)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: Gillie

Rxcellant Jim, our clubs now on (Guisborough)

Gillie


17 Nov 05 - 01:55 PM (#1607397)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: GUEST

A pain to use over a dial up connection. I am afraid that, given the reluctance of organisers to keep their entries up to date in other web based directories, it will be about as useful as EFDSS's late and unlamented Root Source site after a year or so.


17 Nov 05 - 04:51 PM (#1607547)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: jimL

A pain to use over a dial up connection. I am afraid that, given the reluctance of organisers to keep their entries up to date in other web based directories, it will be about as useful as EFDSS's late and unlamented Root Source site after a year or so.

FAQ

It is clearly the case that shifting Googles tiles is not something you want to do on dial-up. There are ways round it, which I shall apply myself to in good time.

There are ways of keeping entries up to date. The most important which I have been pedalling from the start is that entries should be made by organisers, and that their contact details should be valid, so that you can get ongoing confirmation.

Another is having an application which is so attractive that it gets used. It is the knife in the draw which goes rusty, not the one in the hand.

Mmm - quite like that :-)


17 Nov 05 - 06:03 PM (#1607596)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: Tootler

Excellent site and good idea.

I like the map format. It makes it much easier to see where things are.

Is it OK to link from other pages?


17 Nov 05 - 06:35 PM (#1607622)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: Guy Wolff

Like LL I have a Max OSX 10.2.8 and broad band but Im using Explorer . The site came up but the map sort of flashed in and out with a problem sign comming up leaving no way in .. Great Idea . Good luck . Guy


18 Nov 05 - 04:12 AM (#1607935)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: jimL

Tootler : Is it OK to link from other pages?

Please do - the link should be to the domain name -

www.folkmap.co.uk

you should be seeing on that front page a button for "create link" -
if not refresh the page. That will actually create link code for you, if you like, and then you can mess with it to your hearts content :-)

cheers Jim


18 Nov 05 - 04:17 AM (#1607938)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: jimL

Guy: Like LL I have a Max OSX 10.2.8 and broad band but Im using Explorer . The site came up but the map sort of flashed in and out with a problem sign comming up leaving no way in

What works and doesn't (for PC and Mac) is documented
here.

cheers
Jim


18 Nov 05 - 04:37 AM (#1607944)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: My guru always said

Well it looks fantastic to me, thanks Jim! I'll point it out to club, session & festival organisers!


18 Nov 05 - 05:06 AM (#1607953)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: John J

Excellent! Thanks for taking the time and trouble to do this.

John


18 Nov 05 - 07:46 AM (#1608046)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: GUEST,BanjoRay

I've just put the Gainsborough Old Time Festival on the map - what a fine facility. Well done.
Ray


18 Nov 05 - 10:05 AM (#1608154)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: GUEST,Van

I clicked on Dumfries & got clubs from all over the UK. Edinburgh apparently has no clubs. Not such a good system - perhaps with time it may improve.


18 Nov 05 - 10:11 AM (#1608159)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: manitas_at_work

Obviously it won't find clubs in Edinburgh until someone enters one but when I clicked on Dumfries it brought up the nearest club , Folk in the Barn. It is a good system - the only fault is with the meatware.


18 Nov 05 - 10:20 AM (#1608168)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: GUEST,Van

Manitas
I take it that you have little or no knowledge of the geography of the UK. The club you found was over 100 miles from Dumfries. the other Folk in the Barn is over 400 miles. The system is a good idea but it has obvious faults. What is meatwear?


18 Nov 05 - 10:47 AM (#1608193)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: jimL

I clicked on Dumfries & got clubs from all over the UK. Edinburgh apparently has no clubs. Not such a good system - perhaps with time it may improve.

You have to understand how it works. "clicking on dumfries" has no meaning, there is no search facility (as yet). The map zooms in towards the point you have clicked. Keep clicking and it will narrow down the clubs it shows.

The clubs in the list are those in the current view - not near where you have clicked. If there are still too many, click again. Eventually you get down to street level.

What clubs are there depends on what clubs have been entered, so far.

JL


18 Nov 05 - 11:07 AM (#1608212)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: The Villan

If you click on one of the pins you do not zoom in. However you get to see on the right hand side of the map, who the pin represents.

One of the other things that you can do is move the map around in the frame. If you point with the mouse on any part of the map whilst holding the left mouse down you can move the map. A bit like sliding a document under a magnifying glass.

Once you get used to the Google map you will probably realise how powerful it is.

I use Google maps now for working out journeys etc. Its very good.


18 Nov 05 - 11:45 AM (#1608242)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: manitas_at_work

There's not a lot wrong with my knowledge of the geography of the UK - the club may be 100 miles away but it's still the nearest one listed. How is this a fault with the website?


18 Nov 05 - 12:08 PM (#1608267)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: jimL

the club may be 100 miles away but it's still the nearest one listed

Yup - it does say on the front page that it's "new" and that it's still in development. Of course until people have added their clubs we won't be able to see them.

So far I've been extremely happy with this application. I've had no unscheduled down-time, and only one or two very small glitches, which haven't interfered with the service.

Incidentally, the slow ontake of data is entirely intentional - I've only advertised this here and on umf, and relied on word of mouth for now. This is SOP for big software - it can be hard to put things right if you've got vast amounts of data.

There will come a time in the not too distant future when I will decide that things are stable and working OK. Then I'll start pushing it more.

In the interim I'm more than happy for people to pass the info to other organisers and friends, and to link to the front page.

Best wishes,
jim


18 Nov 05 - 12:14 PM (#1608277)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: manitas_at_work

I think it's pretty good. There's an oddity though - if you look in East Ham near where I live there's a place listed called Downend. It's the first I've ever heard of this place and it can't be seen on streetmap.co.uk nor is there a street nearby with that name. Did Google add this to identify copyright theft or is it a real place?


18 Nov 05 - 11:21 PM (#1608665)
Subject: RE: Folk Map of the UK - new website
From: GUEST,.gargoyle

Lovely little map

Glorious little thing with the clickys.

However, where is Gersey, and Sark? CoalPorter in Dublin is missing.

This so called "map" appeares to be very rasict.

Sincerely, Gargoyle