|
21 Nov 05 - 11:47 AM (#1610244) Subject: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: jeffp The last Allied surviving witness of the World War I Christmas truce has died. Here is the story: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051121/od_nm/britain_veteran_dc P.S. If a JoeClone wants to add a prefix, please do so. I couldn't decide what would be most appropriate. No need. This is a music related subject. Thanks for starting it |
|
21 Nov 05 - 11:50 AM (#1610250) Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: Clinton Hammond Guess I'll have to play John's song for him tonight |
|
21 Nov 05 - 11:57 AM (#1610256) Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: alanabit Another piece of history which slips into the books. It is the contrast of men's basic humanity among the most appalling inhumanity, which makes these stories so poignant. May it never be forgotten. |
|
21 Nov 05 - 11:57 AM (#1610257) Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: alanabit By the way, I am not a Christian, but I really hate that abbreviation "Xmas"! |
|
21 Nov 05 - 12:17 PM (#1610267) Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: Clinton Hammond Please don't hijack the thread with that useless BS |
|
21 Nov 05 - 12:50 PM (#1610303) Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: Leadfingers "One day no-one will march there at all" Eric Bogle ! |
|
21 Nov 05 - 12:51 PM (#1610306) Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: Clinton Hammond They're all gone too, LF.... |
|
21 Nov 05 - 01:03 PM (#1610323) Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: Mr Red alanabit Apparently - according to those who know - Xmas is not so much an abbreviation as a regression to the Greek way of saying things - but I don't spika da lingo let alone classical Greek. So Xmas it is PAL - and I don't think the trenches cared for the difference either. Another factoid that I can't remember the source of is the story of fraternization on Xmas day of waring soldiers. It was known in other conflicts in Europe before WW1 - but I can't recall which ones. |
|
21 Nov 05 - 01:43 PM (#1610382) Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: alanabit I wonder what Alfred Anderson would have had to say on the subject. Clinton: I had no intention of hijacking the thread. It is just that the particular expression seriously pisses me off. Few of us are too lazy to write a bloke's name. Whatever you think about the Christ, whether he existed or not, we at least can give a name to the guy after whom the festival is (ostensibly) named. |
|
21 Nov 05 - 01:45 PM (#1610383) Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: Little Robyn Not a participant in the Xmas war story but NZ's last WW1 vet died at the weekend, aged 104. Victor(Bob)Rudd, born April 1901 in London, served in the 9th Lancers. He came to NZ in the early 1920s and lived the rest of his life in Greymouth. Robyn |
|
21 Nov 05 - 01:51 PM (#1610387) Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: Clinton Hammond " I had no intention of hijacking the thread" You're still doing it.... "the particular expression seriously pisses me off" So what? Is it relevant to the thread? No.... I know it's rich coming from me, but try to have a modicum of respect eh.... I suspect the MAIN reason that X-mas is truncated in this example is that MudCrash only allows a very few characters in a subject line... It's not a personal affront, so how's about you calm down, unknot your knickers, and try a bran muffin Hopefully a clone can come in and clean up this thread... |
|
21 Nov 05 - 02:03 PM (#1610398) Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: alanabit I have not changed my mind, but it looks like time for another truce... Maybe we'll debate this one elsewhere. RIP Alfred Anderson. |
|
21 Nov 05 - 02:05 PM (#1610400) Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: jeffp Got it in one, Clinton. |
|
21 Nov 05 - 02:29 PM (#1610417) Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: John MacKenzie That looks like a tactical withdrawal to me Clinton Hammond, I suggest we dedicate this thread to the honour of the gallant man who passed away today, and forget personal likes and dislikes. Giok |
|
21 Nov 05 - 02:57 PM (#1610430) Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: Clinton Hammond "forget personal likes and dislikes." I have requested that the BS be scrubbed from this thread in the Hel Forum.... "Maybe we'll debate this one elsewhere" Elsewhere is EXACTLY where such sentiments belong (My 0.02) |
|
21 Nov 05 - 02:57 PM (#1610432) Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: Clinton Hammond HELP forum even... |
|
21 Nov 05 - 03:36 PM (#1610462) Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: Steve Parkes There's an excellent book about the Christmas Day truce -- I forgot to note down the authour's name etc., so if anyone finds it, post the details here. It's well worth reading. Steve |
|
21 Nov 05 - 04:04 PM (#1610478) Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: Clinton Hammond This book?? |
|
21 Nov 05 - 04:08 PM (#1610484) Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: Herga Kitty Alfred Anderson appeared in "The last Tommy" shown on BBC TV last week. He was the oldest man in Scotland, as well as the last survivor of the 1914 Christmas truce. Kitty |
|
21 Nov 05 - 04:56 PM (#1610520) Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: Nemesis A poignant day indeed - did anyone see the Channel 4 docu with Ian Hislop last night? About the War memorials, and the stories behind some of them? Coincidentally, today I received my g-grandfather's WW1 records, in Belgium, gassed we thought, but the final medical report makes completely different, and harrowing, reading. War is hell .. and I weep for all those boys who didn't come home then and now.. |
|
21 Nov 05 - 05:44 PM (#1610568) Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: The Walrus Alfred Anderson. May he, and his comrades, rest in peace. |
|
21 Nov 05 - 09:36 PM (#1610770) Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: Pauline L The wording of the newspaper is ambiguous, but it suggests that Alfred Anderson spoke lucidly to a reporter last year, when he was 108. I'm glad that he survived the war, and I hope that he had many good years I'll add my voice to the chorus: Alfred Anderson. May he, and his comrades, rest in peace. |
|
22 Nov 05 - 02:12 AM (#1610931) Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: Joe Offer Well, I don't like the squabbling, but I can't really justify sorting it out. Let's just forget the Xmas discussion and go back to the original topic of discussion. This is the sort of item that tends to disappear after a short time. I think I'll post it - it's from Reuters: Last allied witness of WWI Christmas truce diesBy Peter GraffMon Nov 21,11:59 AM ET The last known surviving allied veteran of the Christmas Truce that saw German and British soldiers shake hands between the trenches in World War One died Monday at 109, his parish priest said. Alfred Anderson was the oldest man in Scotland and the last known surviving Scottish veteran of the war. "I remember the silence, the eerie sound of silence," he was quoted as saying in the Observer newspaper last year, describing the day-long Christmas Truce of 1914, which began spontaneously when German soldiers sang carols in the trenches, and British soldiers responded in English. "All I'd heard for two months in the trenches was the hissing, cracking and whining of bullets in flight, machinegun fire and distant German voices. But there was a dead silence that morning across the land as far as you could see. "We shouted 'Merry Christmas' even though nobody felt merry. The silence ended early in the afternoon and the killing started again." Troops in the trenches swapped cigarettes, uniform buttons and addresses and even played football in one of the most extraordinary episodes of the war. Parish priest Neil Gardner of Anderson's Alyth Parish Church in Scotland said he had died in his sleep and was survived by a large family, including 18 great grandchildren and two great great grandchildren. "He was a wonderful old man: he was gracious, gentle, he had a great sense of humor and a fine sense of wisdom from his experience spanning three centuries," said Gardner, who also served as chaplain to Anderson's regiment, the Black Watch. Anderson also served briefly as a member of the household staff of Queen Elizabeth's uncle, Fergus Bowes-Lyon. With Anderson's death, fewer than 10 British veterans of the war remain alive, of whom only three or four were veterans of trench warfare on the Western Front. Attention has turned to the last survivors in recent weeks, with filmmakers bringing out documentaries in time for this month's Armistice Day holiday, marking the day the guns fell silent on November 11, 1918. |
|
22 Nov 05 - 03:55 AM (#1610956) Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: Keith A of Hertford Old soldiers never die, They only fade away. Rest in peace Alf. |
|
22 Nov 05 - 05:00 AM (#1610981) Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: Liz the Squeak I was in Flanders this weekend, on a hill between Ypres and Poperinge. At about 8.30am local time on Sunday (7.30am GMT), I went for a stroll alone. The morning was bitingly cold, with a fog bank enveloping the hill. The previous evenings' drizzle had frozen to the trees and grass. Towards France and the east, there was nothing but grey, with the dim shadows of a hedge, barely visible, even though it was only 30ft away. I tried to imagine what it would have been like in 1914-1917, when the fog concealed advancing soldiers, the mist was tainted and bitter with gun smoke, and the only thing not frozen was the mud. As I stood there, the sun broke through the fog and the world changed. Cobwebs were jewelled cloaks set solid and rose hips were icy blood drops hanging from the bough. To the west, across the fields and villages of Flanders, the red brick buildings glowed scarlet in the golden light and the green grass sparkled with frost and fire. To have such beauty before me after the grey, shapeless dawn..... pictures cannot do it justice. I've read the original diaries of the Dorset Regiment who were part of that war, in those towns, across those fields. A great uncle fought and died in that mud, mist and frost. It never seemed so close and real as it did in that bitter morning fog. At the going down of the sun, and in the morning..... LTS |
|
22 Nov 05 - 07:52 AM (#1611045) Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: GUEST I was there too a few weeks ago, and it was foggy then too. Very spooky. Of course, you wouldn't be allowed to have a Christmas truce now, for fear of offending non-Christians. You'd just have to carry on killing each other. |
|
22 Nov 05 - 08:01 AM (#1611058) Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: Beer "We Will Remember Them". Beer |
|
22 Nov 05 - 10:37 AM (#1611186) Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: Flash Company My old Dad just missed WW1, Joined the army in 1919. Sheila's dad was in it, won the Military Cross, but died in 1937. Having seen 'The Last Tommy',I guess Harry Patch is now literally that! Go with God FC |
|
22 Nov 05 - 10:52 AM (#1611202) Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: Dave the Gnome Mike Harding used to do a song about the truce - Dunno if he wrote it or not. Anyone got the words? My Grandad was wounded twice in WW1 and each time sent back to the trenches. Once he was gassed and lost the sight in one eye but the more serious one was when he was shot through the neck and lost a good lump of the back of his tongue. I used to try and imagine what it must be like to go through things like that and then be sent back - Impossible to do for me I'm afraid:-( Grandad used to say it was an awful time but most of his fond memories and best stories were of his friends and escapades during that particular spate of madness. His pride and joy was the civilian medal he got from the French for rescuing a little girl who had fallen down a well. The mileage he got when wearing that medal was a joy to him. Every year during the Armistice day paarde some young officer would come up to him and tell him he was wearing his medal ribbon the wrong way round. he always had a good laugh pointing out that the French do tend to wear the colours blue, white and red:-) Cheers DtG |
|
22 Nov 05 - 11:02 AM (#1611216) Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: Beer Good Story Dave. |
|
22 Nov 05 - 11:16 AM (#1611233) Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: GUEST,robinia Would that Chan.4 documentary be the film that has been much advertised in French train stations recently? I had no idea that anything of the sort had been made until I saw the posters, clearly referring to the World War I Christmas truce. A 'true story that history has forgotten,' they proclaimed. "La Paix"??? I forget the two-word title, but it sure sounded like a full-length French film to me... Now I'm curious. Anyone know? |
|
22 Nov 05 - 03:17 PM (#1611437) Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: Raedwulf Respect to the fallen, but the bit that impresses me most is not that Staff Sgt. (as he ended the war) Anderson lasted longer than anyone else, it's the way he is spoken of. He was a very gracious and unassuming man... Alfred was a fine old soldier who was a brilliant example of old world courtliness... Everyone who met him was always impressed by his vitality... He was gentle and very humorous, with a quick wit. He used to say until recently that his ambition was to die shot in bed by a jealous lover. Excerpted from the BBC report on this grand old man's death. We all gotta go some time. I doubt my epitaph will read so well! Alanabit & CH - please squabble by PM, but perhaps if you agree to call it Yule (the *real* name for it), you might at least agree a 'truce'? ;-) |
|
22 Nov 05 - 05:45 PM (#1611514) Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: Susanne (skw) DtG, 'Christmas Nineteen Fourteen' is the title of Harding's song, and it's either in the DT or in the Forum. Should anyone want to read the BBC coverage: Prince in tribute to war veteran Don't know the title, but for the interview Alfred Anderson gave the Observer last year, google for 'Lorna Martin Observer 19 Dec 2004'. It was an interesting and moving piece. |
|
22 Nov 05 - 07:00 PM (#1611553) Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: Nemesis The Channel 4 documentary - SUndays 8pm "Not Forgotten" - 3 more in the series to go .. an excellent documentary judging by episode one. more at www.channel4.com/history .. altho the site is inundated at the moment. THey've found some very moving material - not previously seen or heard - also rescued a memorial from a builder's skip, traced descendants from it and also got the current bank from the site of the skip to restore the smashed up memorial. I think their aim is to compile an online database of all the names that are on memorials |
|
22 Nov 05 - 07:06 PM (#1611555) Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: Liz the Squeak Maybe they should have a go at the one in Abbotsbury then... I can track down the record of every name on it bar one. Luckily, it's not a family name (3 of the 12 names there are, all killed within 24hrs), but it's intruiging.... and bugging the hell out of me! I can find his family, but nothing about him. LTS |
|
23 Nov 05 - 10:21 AM (#1611955) Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: GUEST,Tunesmith Of course, John McCutcheon's "Christmas in the Trenches" is THE song about event. |
|
23 Nov 05 - 12:34 PM (#1612029) Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: Liz the Squeak intriguing even..... LTS |
|
04 Dec 05 - 02:36 PM (#1619881) Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: open mike ah--the passing away of an era// |
|
05 Dec 05 - 01:47 PM (#1620512) Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: Alio To commemorate Alfred's passing, I played a Mike Harding song on Sounds of Folk last Monday - is it called Christmas in 1914? It's the story of when they had a truce for 24 hours on Christmas Day, and it just seemed appropriate. The recording I had was of the late Derek Rushmer singing it. Very powerful. Ali |
|
05 Dec 05 - 04:23 PM (#1620588) Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: JohnB My aunt Lily's first husband "Joe Blagg" died in that war, not sure if it was in the trenches. She gave me his signet ring, same initials. Here's to em all, JohnB |
|
05 Dec 05 - 05:36 PM (#1620671) Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches Survivor Dies From: Fliss My father's brother Ernest died at Paschendaele 31st October 1917 aged 23. We always remember him on November 11th. My own sons are in their 20s so it hits home how many of their age range died in the two world wars. Recently I leant the local studies archive 3 albums of photos of the 4th Bat KSLI to photograph. Im looking forward to seeing the results and having a copy of the digital photos on CD. I watched the programme where the old soldier met one of the German soldiers, who was French from Alsace I think. fxx |