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30 Nov 05 - 12:39 PM (#1617336) Subject: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST,I'd rather not say I have been in a period of persistent depression and anxiety for several months, now. I find it nearly impossible to concentrate on my work. I take frequent breaks to check in with the Cat, and also some other boards of personal interest. But while I am doing that, I am anxious about what I SHOULD be doing and what the consequences might be. Despite the fact that I have my basic needs in life (and then some!) met, I am anxious about what could go wrong and what the future holds. Fire, theft, weather disaster, and anything else. I am also anxious about the future of my job, even though it is not one that is typically sent overseas or sold to another company and I get kudos from my supervisor all the time. I have taken meds off and on, but I am very afraid of the other damage they might be doing to me, so I am not taking them now. But given my recent outlook on life, I may consider starting again. I guess it would be better than having myself dead. At least, my friends and loved ones would feel that way, I guess. And then I get to beating myself up for my weakness of character, since I have so much that so many others do not have, and how could I be such an idiot for all this worrying?! I should be so grateful for what I have and who I am! Nevertheless, it is VERY REAL, and I live with it every minute of every day. Why is life worth living? |
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30 Nov 05 - 12:43 PM (#1617340) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: WFDU - Ron Olesko We could all start sending you messages telling you how wrong you and how important your life actually is, but I think you already realize it is important. You can't control the future, and you realize that too. It sounds like you need professional help, probably to get back on the meds, and the advice of amateurs here on Mudcat is not of use to you. Listen to your family, friends and most important - professional help. You aren't alone. |
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30 Nov 05 - 12:50 PM (#1617345) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Clinton Hammond Get more exercise... Chop wood... go for walks... visit your locak YMCA and swim with the kiddies... It does WONDERS to help with depression... It helps you sleep better so you feel MUCH better when you wake up in the AM... and it gives you a sense of accomplishment, and can help turn your downward spiral back upwards Ya also might meet some new interesting and friendly folks! :-) Use professionals as mentioned above, and take yer meds too! Good luck IRNS |
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30 Nov 05 - 12:51 PM (#1617348) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: John MacKenzie I hate taking pills, but if I didn't take my Beta Blockers for my heart probs, I might be dead. If I didn't take my painkillers for my Arthritis I would be in worse pain than I am, and would not be able to get around as much as I do, and I DO get around. I guess we just have to 'Go with the flow' I know it's difficult to keep on keeping on, but just be thankfull for the nice things in life, of which there are many. Giok |
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30 Nov 05 - 12:53 PM (#1617349) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Janie Depression and anxiety are medical illnesses--NOT weakness of character. All choices involve costs and benefits. Most of the medications prescribed for depression and anxiety have been around plenty long enough for serious or long term side effects to have been identified, and most are remarkably safe for most people. From your description of how you are feeling, it seems to me that the benefits of medical treatment probably far outway the health risks of the medications likelyt to be prescribed. Stop torturing yourself and those who love you. Go see your doctor and the medical treatment you deserve. You DO deserve to feel better and less anxious. Feel free to pm me if you need a more private ear. Janie |
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30 Nov 05 - 12:56 PM (#1617350) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Jerry Rasmussen Good advice, Ron: Half the time, I don;t even know what's good for me, let alone anyone else. I will add that I was in a depression many years and committed myself to a psychiatric ward. One of the best things about that was that I discovered that I was nowhere near alone. Many, many people have had depression at times in their lives. I needed about equal portions of self-forgiveness and faith, with a dash of professional help thrown in, too. I needed all three. But, that's just me. Not necessarily you, Guest... Jerry |
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30 Nov 05 - 01:33 PM (#1617380) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: M.Ted I am not sure if you can call people who live and deal with depression on a daily basis amateurs, Ron--though I think you mean that this is a problem that "Heloise's Hints" won't solve, and our friend should get professional help-- To the good and useful insights above, I would add that drugs alone are not the answer, and that you should be seeing someone that you can talk to about the feelings that you're having, and also can help you to get back to living your life, instead of just worrying about it-- A word about "having so much that others don't have" and not appreciating it--keep in mind that on of the things that you have, that others don't, is an illness that causes you great discomfort-- it's OK to take care of yourself--and it's OK that you're not taking full advantage of whatever, or doing all the things that are out there to do, because you are not well, and you need to cut things back to a level that you can manage |
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30 Nov 05 - 01:45 PM (#1617385) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST,Been There I'm a long-time Mudcatter and I've logged out for purposes of this post. Like GUEST,I'd rather not say, and for similar reasons, I prefer to remain anonymous while making the following comments. GUEST, I'd rather not say, I went through the same thing about ten years ago and I wouldn't wish those feelings on my worst enemy. Miserable! Downright debilitating! Two things helped me very much when I was going through that. First, I got a copy of Managing Your Mind by Gillian Butler and Tony Hope and read it. I found much of this book very helpful. There are also a couple of books by Dr. Herbert Benson on what he calls "the Relaxation Response" that are worth reading. I found them quite helpful as well. But second, and most important, get to a good counselor. Sometimes this sort of thing is included in company health benefits, but even if it isn't, believe me, it's money well spent. My counselor sent me to a psychiatrist first for evaluation, and we soon found out that not only did anti-depressants not work for me, they actually made it worse. So this was not, strictly speaking, a physical condition, like serotonin imbalance. There were reasons in my life that had led me into anxiety and depression. I won't go into that, but after a few sessions with the counselor, I began to get a handle on why I was feeling the way I was. Once I addressed this, the anxiety disappeared and the depression started to fade away. People who have not gone through this have no idea of how ghastly these feelings can be. I wouldn't go through that again for anything in the world. But if they should ever recur, I still have my counselor's telephone number and I would not waste a second calling her and getting an appointment. Good luck! And hang in there, buddy! |
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30 Nov 05 - 01:48 PM (#1617387) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Clinton Hammond " People who have not gone through this have no idea of how ghastly these feelings can be." 100% true! |
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30 Nov 05 - 01:49 PM (#1617389) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Dead Horse I agree with all above. But for me, the worst part of depression is that my brain, which was once my friend, is no longer to be relied upon. It lies to me. It tells me things which are not true, and goes on to justify itself. So I do not stop taking the meds. My brain is capable of convincing me that self destruction would be a good thing, so why the hell should I believe it when it tells me to lay of the pills? I could go on, but wont. See your doc, pronto. |
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30 Nov 05 - 02:04 PM (#1617394) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST,Been There Aye, Dead Horse, there's the rub! I've always felt that no matter how miserable things might get in my life (fortunately, not that often), that my mind is a refuge, a haven where I could retreat, feel that I was safe there, and work things out to solve the problem. But this kind of anxiety and depression invades that inner sanctum and you no longer feel safe even there! That's the truly unsettling part. There is no relief! But unless it is caused by a physical problem with brain chemistry and such, your mind is still where you have to work the problems out. But in this case, you need help and guidance. That's where the counselor comes in. I can't recommend this highly enough! Please, do it! |
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30 Nov 05 - 02:25 PM (#1617406) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: WFDU - Ron Olesko "I am not sure if you can call people who live and deal with depression on a daily basis amateurs" That wasn't what I meant, but now that you bring it up M.Ted, I will say that it is true! Just because someone suffers from depression and/or anxiety does not make them an expert on dealing with others. Every case is different. While it is all well and good that people give encouragement on Mudcat, it does not replace GOOD professional medical advice. Yes, we are amateurs (and I apologize if it turns out to be your profession). Someone who is truly suffering could use this advice as a crutch. See a professional. |
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30 Nov 05 - 02:37 PM (#1617415) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: SINSULL I was treated for depression about ten years ago when a relative begged me to see a therapist just to rule out any problems. An emergency visit with a psychiatrist followed that same day, a debate about hospitalizing me, and the start of five years of intensive therapy. I would not wish that black hole on anyone. My curse - I felt nothing. I would look at a sharp knife or a hot stove and honestly wonder if I could feel something by touching them. Prozac works for me. But without professional help I could never have gotten to the basis for my depression and climbed out of the hole. I also could not keep myself on the straight and narrow now without understanding who I am and what I want. I can see the "signs", recognize the red flags and get myself back on track all by myself. Get a professional evaluation. I can almost guarantee that you will discover that not only do you not suffer from a weakness of character but your very strength of character has kept you from hurting yourself or wallowing in depression. Life free from depression is pure joy. One of the strangest discoveries I made was how to feel disappointment, sorrow and pain without losing nyself in them. Good luck in your journey. Mary |
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30 Nov 05 - 03:29 PM (#1617450) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: katlaughing All of the above, esp. what Janie, Sinsull, and other anon. said, as well as CH. Anti-depressants helped me for a few months, several years ago. Mine was a physical living and health situation which just seemed to bury me. Over the past year, I've had tons of anxiety and have taken Xanax at night to make my mind STOP THINKING! so that I may get some rest. It has helped tremendously. I don't feel any grogginess nor is it habit-forming for me which pleases me and my docs. One thing, which may sound very simple, but may actually be very difficult to do, at the moment, is to try to say, mentally or out loud, in the morning upon awakening, something like this: "I give thanks for all that I have, all that I give and all that I receive." I find it helps me to not feel guilty about having what I need; in fact it helps me feel good about sharing what we have...that "passing it on" action. I find it very difficult to not beat up on myself, mentally. My experience is that women have more of a problem with this than men. I have friends with whom I "co-counsel" reminding each other to be kind to ourselves. Along with traditional professional help, I would also recommend a good hypnotherapist, one who can help with self-hypnosis techniques which can help reduce the anxiety and manage depression. For a quick response to anxiety, if able, try this: take in a deep breath and as you do, *think* the words "I AM" then, as you blow the breath out, slowly, think the word "RELAXED." With practice this can really help. I would still stress, though, the need for professional evaluation and treatment. Feel free to PM me, also, if you'd like. You DO deserve to feel good about yourself and your life. kat |
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30 Nov 05 - 04:48 PM (#1617507) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST In 1993, Donald Klein suggested that anxiety results from an overly sensitive "suffocation alarm" system. He argues that the brain monitors brain levels of Co2 as a way of monitoring the danger of asphyxiation. The physiological and behavioral responses to asphyxiation, hyperventilation, rapid heartbeat, a sense of extreme danger, and intense need to struggle and get away-strongly resemble the symptoms of panic disorder. Therefore it is imperative that you first determine if you are not getting enough oxygen, either because of sleep apnea or if you are breathing poorly during the day or in a building that is oxygen deprived. You may also be sensitive to the byproducts of muscle exertion, sodium lactate, which would then create anxiety for you. The noradrenergic system, the body's alarm arousal system clearly plays some role in anxiety disorders. This system may become dysregulated after chronic stress. Addressing stress in the ways suggested (with the exception of continued xanax useage,) are good recommendations. As for your existential question, good luck with that... |
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30 Nov 05 - 04:56 PM (#1617510) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Ebbie Guest, that is a very interesting hypothesis. I'll be doing some reading. |
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30 Nov 05 - 05:29 PM (#1617526) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST,Another Guest Dear Guest, That all makes a lot of sense - when I was suffering from depression and anxiety a few years ago I kept getting suffocation dreams. Luckily, they seem to have almost gone away now. To 'Guest-I'd rather not say' - professional help is the only way to go - although getting such help can be difficult. One thing that you might try, in addition to the above, which can't do any harm, is eating more oily fish or taking fish oil supplements. These are rich in Omega-3 fatty acids - I have read that some authorities believe that these may be useful in treating depression and other disorders. Please remember, though, not to take this to extremes. My doctor told me that some people go mad and start taking handfuls of fish oil capsules - which can lead to other problems - not least of which is fishy breath! I take one Omega-3 rich fish oil capsule a day and I believe it helps, even if it is only a placebo effect! First thing, though, is to talk to your doctor. |
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30 Nov 05 - 05:42 PM (#1617532) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST,Been There Kat, I'm afraid that Xanax (generic name, Alprazolam) is considered to be addictive. Everything I've read, plus my own experience bears that out. In fact, in the book I mentioned above, Managing Your Mind, there's a whole chapter on the problems with benzodiazepine anti-anxiety drugs and how to go about get off of them. Benzodiazepine is the active ingredient in Xanax and many other tranquilizers or anti-anxiety drugs, including Valium. The psychiatrist that my therapist sent me to prescribed alphrazolam, but didn't warn me about the addictive aspects of it. In fact, he maintained that it wasn't addictive. But I had some real trouble getting off of it. The poop sheet the pharmacist gave me warned that it was addictive and I checked on the internet and found plenty of addiction warnings about it. For example Withdrawal effects may occur if alprazolam is stopped suddenly after several weeks of continuous use.The shrink prescribed a pretty heavy dose, every four hours. It made me feel like reality was wa-a-a-a-a-ay down the hall, and I wife told me afterwards that when I was taking the stuff, I was spending a lot of time practically comatose. I cut the doses in half on my own and started feeling more alert. After several weeks with the therapist, I didn't feel like I needed it anymore. But I had one rough time getting off of it. I had to spend about three months tapering off by reducing the dose and spreading out the time between doses. The shrink told me I should keep taking it, even though I felt like I didn't need it anymore. The therapist disagreed with him, feeling that I was the best judge of how I felt, and she helped see me through it. Several things I read about it agreed that one should not take it for more than a couple of weeks at most. God, I hate being hooked like that! The problem with a lot of psychiatry these days, not to mention medical practice in general, is that doctors find it a whole lot easier to just reach for the prescription pad and alleviate the symptoms than it is to take the time to deal with the root of the problem. --------------------------- And as for you, Martin Gibson (your real name, of course!), if ever I have an emotional problem, which is rare, I take the steps necessary to solve it, unlike you. If I chose to remain anonmymous in this instance, it's not because of any shame, it's because of people exactly like you, who are in denial about their own severe mental problems, and who try make a weapons out of other people's difficulties just as you are trying to do right now. You've done this a lot, which tells everyone all they need to know about you. You're the one who needs to get help. |
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30 Nov 05 - 05:45 PM (#1617534) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST,bagpuss Definitely see your doctor. You have to weigh up the possible damage that pills might do to you against the damage the depression will do to you. With each episode of depression your risk of suffering heart problems later on increases. And I'm sure it comprimises you immune system and makes you more vulnerable to all sorts of other illnesses. If you are really against taking anti depressants, or find them of limited help, ask your doctor about referring you for cognitive therapy, which has been shown to be equally effective and may be more helpful in preventing further episodes. Otherwise, as others have said exercise, and trying not to cut yourself off, and trying to keep doing anything you still find enjoyment in, are all useful in minimising the depression. PS. I sympathise with you a lot. How you describe yourself at work sounds exactly the way I am when I am depressed. One thing I would say is that taking some time off sick really can help (as long as you dont sit at home worrying about work), especially if you have a sympathetic boss that will cut you a bit of slck and ease you in gently when you return. Often just having someone know about it really eases the situation and stops you getting so tied up in knots. |
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30 Nov 05 - 05:50 PM (#1617541) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Bobert Now I make no bones about havin' gone thru one very intense 'bout with anxiety and depression and like Jerry did, I checked into an inpatient mental faility fir a couple of weeks... That was followed by various types of counselin' and some nasty pills... But I wasn't really breakin' it grip on my life until someone told me, just as Clinton told you above, that exercise would help... Well, I'd always been a purdy good swimmer and so Im started swimmin' 5 days a week at the WMCA... It didn't take long and I was up to a couple miles a day and I'll tell ya what, the depression and axiety seemed to lesson with every day... Now just two other things... This time of year, presuming you live in the northern hemispere, you need more light... You can get a light panel that comes on with a timer and that will help... In some cases yer insurance will pay fir one of these light panels... Secondly, as you have suffered off and on fir some time now... you need to keep in mind that it does pass... You can do it... Exercize, light and a little Faith gonna get you thru it... I promise... Bobert |
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30 Nov 05 - 05:57 PM (#1617547) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST,bagpuss Martin Gibson. Don't you ever get tired of feeling so superior to everyone else? People often dont post their name in regard to this sort of thing because there is still a lot of stigma surrounding mental health problems. Admittedly, not fighting the stigma, by hiding what has happened to you might be helping to perpetuate that stigma somewhat, but it shouldn't be solely the responsibility of the sufferer to combat the stigma, especially when they are not in the strongest of positions, emotionally, and encountering more stigma would probably make the condition worse. Also, web forums are very helpful in depression. Usually (barring the odd idiot like you) they are very supportive and help a person in seeking help, when the person is not capable of making good decisions all the time because of the illness. And if you actually read the posts, not only is there a lot of supportiveness (very useful in helping recovery from depression, as isolation and keeping your feeling in, make the illness worse), but there is also a lot of practical advice and information. Bagpuss |
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30 Nov 05 - 06:05 PM (#1617556) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST,bagpuss A lightbox saved my life. But they only really have an effect if your depression is seasonal - usually starting around october/november each year and usually remitting in april, with few periods of depression outside these times. |
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30 Nov 05 - 06:12 PM (#1617560) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST,River Depression shows its face in many ways, and we just don't understand all of those manifestations. I have lived with it and occasionally in spite of it for decades. At various times professionals have helped. I am thankful for that. The medication route can be a rocky road. Not all meds work for all people. However, take the time to consult a therapist/doctor/counsellor. See someone who works in the area of 'depression'. Until you take that step you will likely be no further toward understanding the condition and how it plays out in YOU. The people who have posted, myself included, can tell you our stories and even listen to yours, but really none of us are able to DO anything about it for you. Hie yourself to a doctor and get 'diagnosed'. It is the beginning of a journey for you, because the probability of finding a med-therapy combination that works on the first try is really low. Could take upto a year. But if you don't take the first step you just won't make any progress at all. Depression is a hell of a thing to live with. Those who don't have it won't really understand. Those who do understand only too well. Get to a doctor. Soonest. That is important. |
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30 Nov 05 - 06:14 PM (#1617562) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Divis Sweeney After having worked as a Therapist for 26 years, now retired, I know exactly what and where you are coming from.There comes a time in many peoples lives when they either take stock of their life or evaluate it. Sounds very much to me as if there is something underlying that has triggered this of for you, it's very intense and there are a lot of mixed emotions and fears present.Can you relate it to a recent event ? The death of someone known to you ? Has someone you know went through a traumatic incident recently ? We all get a wake up call when someone we know either dies young or suffers a heart attack, we consider giving up smoking or drinking and promise to get more excerise.If you can think about when this first started for you and recall events in your life at that time, it could be a starting point.I am glad to see you note positive points in your life, build on these. I don't see this as long term,not saying that out of comfort, but it will pass. Start and plan a structure to your life and employ a daily routine, which incorporates taking stock of what you really have going for you.Understanding helps, Sympathy reinforces. You know we are all here for you. |
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30 Nov 05 - 06:31 PM (#1617573) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Liz the Squeak Try and create something new each week.... a picture, some sewing, a Christmas card.... I spent several months doing just that, it's what kept all my marbles in the tin. Sometimes you feel that life is just a game of Kerplunk, and someone else is pulling all your straws out. Creating something helped keep those marbles in, and at the end of it, I had a big pile of handmade cards that I sold to raise money for a charity. Of course, I didn't want to end up on medication, but in the end, there was no other sensible course. We had a few trial runs with different types - that's why you MUST go and see a professional - til we found one that suited me. I got better and then I got ill again. It's the way life goes. This time around, it's different. I'm getting more anxiety attacks than previously so we've tried another medication. This one seems to be working well now... I daresay next time this happens (and I'm not kidding myself that it won't happen again), it will be a third medicine and more counselling. Seek professional help, talk to someone who will be able to give you the time you need, take the medication, even if you don't want to. Good luck with it, and remember, where there's one asshole, there are two ears. LTS |
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30 Nov 05 - 06:55 PM (#1617592) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Deda Guest rather not say, I won't offer any advice, but I will share some of my own experience. After being fired from a job (at which I was also spending a lot of time on the 'cat), I was so demoralized that all I could bring myself to do, month after month, was play computer solitaire while listening to Folk Alley. At first I thought this was a phase and I'd soon pull out of it, and I just needed to be patient with myself. But after, oh, 4 or 5 months of my not being able to do anything else, my husband's sense of alarm and my own hit a level that demanded some kind of intervention. I finally went to my HMO mental health place and saw the shrink there. He put me on Zoloft and had me start seeing a therapist and coming to group. Once the meds kicked in, the therapist and the group seemed less necessary -- but I was very impressed by a book called "Feeling Good" by a Dr. David Burns, which I found very helpful, re Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, CBT, I think. The meds plus the CBT got me off my rear end, and I gradually became more active -- although I've never been as fully employed as I might be, as I should be ("should" based on my perilous finances). After a little over a year I went off the Zoloft and have never needed it again. Not that I don't have challenges, but I've never been as paralyzed again, I've always felt functional. I'm glad that the Zoloft was available, and I'm glad that after a year or so I was able to stop taking it. It was helpful to me. CBT was also very helpful. I wish you good luck. It sounds as though you have a life that includes a decent job and people who care about you -- no small thing! We'll all be interested to know what follows. |
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30 Nov 05 - 07:04 PM (#1617606) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST By trying to be contemptuous, Martin Gibson winds up being contemptible. |
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30 Nov 05 - 07:55 PM (#1617640) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: WFDU - Ron Olesko I think some of you should really read what Martin Gibson had to say hear. Instead of making him an easy target (which we all know he can be), he offered some legit advice in this thread. Everyone loves to share their personal stories, but they won't solve this person's problems. Instead of being an amateur therapist, this person needs to find some real help. You aren't helping this individual who needs more than the anecdotes that we serve up here. If anything, all this so-called advice could only delay getting the personal help he or she needs. |
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30 Nov 05 - 08:01 PM (#1617643) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: The Fooles Troupe Winston Churchill's Black Dog. I now have a cat, and she helps to chase away the dog. Pets can help you know. |
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30 Nov 05 - 08:10 PM (#1617652) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST,Been There Ron, if you'll check most of the posts here, you might take note of the number that are urging GUEST,I'd rather not say to seek help. Martin Gibson's advice is merely saying what others have already said, then pumping his ego up by acting as if he's the only one to say it. |
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30 Nov 05 - 08:40 PM (#1617667) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: The Fooles Troupe ... as bloody normal... |
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30 Nov 05 - 08:47 PM (#1617669) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: John O'L For about 6 months now I too have been suffering depression and anxiety just like you describe, and am just now starting to come out of it. A couple of weeks ago I started meditating and doing Tai Chi, for the first time in about 30 years. By all means get counselling, but try meditaion & Tai Chi too. It has worked for me. |
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30 Nov 05 - 08:48 PM (#1617670) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Bobert Ron, Amongst the folks here at Mudcat there's over a 1000 years of life's experience.... Many folks here have gone thru anxiety and epression and know purdy danged well what the treatment modalities are... You are way off base... I'd trust the folks here in this joint a hundred times more than I would trust a single friggin' doctor... I don't mean to sound confrontational but, hey, what do y6ou think this community is made up of? A bunch of teenagers... Maybe you should try to make it to a Getaway and then you'd have a different level of respect for the folks who frequent this joint... Bobert |
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30 Nov 05 - 09:07 PM (#1617681) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Sorry Bobert, but I disagree with you. You are the one who is off-base to suggest that I do not understand what this "community" is made up of. Don't be condescending, I don't appreciate or deserve that. I completely respect you and all the folks here, and your intentions are good. Everyone wishes to help this person, including me. The problem is that the advice being given here, is being based on a few sentences and a complete lack of knowledge of this person's situation. People read into these posts and assume they can relate to the specifics. Well, you can't. I am not trying to be confrontational, and again I do see all the good that this so-called "community" is trying to offer. However, it is foolish advice to direct this person to anyone else besides a professional. This could very well be an illness that needs medical treatment, not some sort of folky advice from strangers. |
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30 Nov 05 - 09:21 PM (#1617689) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Once Famous Bullshit, Been There. I said it first and then others followed. Most here are just pumping sunshine up this guy's ass. You included. I said get professional help and then others jump on the bandwagon. And taking up sewing probably won't help. |
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30 Nov 05 - 09:28 PM (#1617694) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST,Why bother saying who I am.. Well, GUEST,I'd rather not say. There you have it, a good number of People who can empathise with you and some sound advice. Empathy certainly helps me when I read some of these posts. I feel a sense of relief that I am not the only person in the world who feels like this. A few of the posts that are telling you that there is nothing worthwhile in what a lot of people here are saying to you....ARE WRONG, WAY OFF BASE and just downright uncaring. Not surprising judging by the sources. It is a usual response from those posters. So, if you choose to, you can accept the "Folky" kindness being offered and see a Doc and know your not alone. Help is out there. Take it from the People who have been down this road before. Ignore the ignorant and the "stand well back and offer ***k all to people that ask for help" types. They only make people feel worse. Good Luck. It's a road your on...get the help you need and you will eventually get through this. I believe I will....and I believe you will too. Check back in and we can compare Doc notes...this too shall pass... Best Wishes to ya |
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30 Nov 05 - 09:33 PM (#1617701) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST,Been There Not true. Rechecking the posts above show clearly that you're full of it as usual, Martin Gibson. And Ron, as I said before, you might recheck as well. |
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30 Nov 05 - 09:35 PM (#1617703) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: WFDU - Ron Olesko I did Been There and I never disagreed with you. I am glad most people have suggested this person seek professional help. |
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30 Nov 05 - 09:37 PM (#1617704) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Once Famous Well, Been There I don't really give a shit. Your advice is just self serving and this guy has got a real problem if he needs to go to a folk music forum with a bunch of psycho babbling pseudo-intellectual navel-gazers for help. Your help is as 2 dimensional as this forum is. |
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30 Nov 05 - 09:38 PM (#1617706) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Once Famous Yeah, Ron. Professional help is the right course. Hand wringing home made "folky" instant therapists is like the fucked up leading the fucked up. |
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30 Nov 05 - 09:48 PM (#1617714) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Bobert Tell ya what, Ron, when I was going thru depression I went from one "doctor" to another and got different opinions and ideas fir treatment from each one???? Hmmmmmm???? Depression ain't like a gun shot wound... DEifferent stuff works on different folks.... I wished I'd had a Mudcat back when I was going thru it 'cause it would have lobed off a years wirth of doctors who didn't really understand depression... The things that I, as well as others have suggested here, have since my bout been proven to be "reliable" treatments... Our GUEST has been thru various doctors in the past and has come to us in the hope of finding something that might work that the variety of doctors didn't have on their respective plates... You can disagree all you want and that's fine... I understand a little about mental health havin' been a social worker dealin' with many, may folks who suffered from mental health issues and I'm here to tell ya that the medical community ain't all on the same page in the game plan book... Enougyh said on my part... BObert |
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30 Nov 05 - 09:51 PM (#1617716) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: goodbar despite his insensitivity and dickness, i'm diggin' Martin Gibson. just because he's a badass and i tend to side with the underdog. but yeah, life can suck sometimes. if you have the balls and truly don't want to live, suicide's a good way out. if not professional help is the way to go. |
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30 Nov 05 - 09:51 PM (#1617717) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Once Famous bobert, I figure you were depressed about your guitar playing and your inability to get past first position chords. Of course you are much more of an authority on mental health than mental health professionals being the complete loon and bogus black that you are. |
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30 Nov 05 - 09:55 PM (#1617728) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Justa Picker What Clinton said. EXERCISE. Got me off of Effexor although the withdrawl effects were highly impressive. |
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30 Nov 05 - 09:56 PM (#1617733) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: WFDU - Ron Olesko " DEifferent stuff works on different folks. " I am so glad you agree with me Bobert. It is irresponsible to assume that what works for one person will work for another, especially when we aren't professionals and do not have all the facts. " Enougyh said on my part..." There is something else we agree on Bobert! We've all said too much on this subject. I hope that this person gets the help that they need. They are not alone in this. Advice is great, but don't depend on it. I'm not a doctor, but I play one on the internet. |
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30 Nov 05 - 10:00 PM (#1617738) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: katlaughing "Been There," thank you, but I am well aware of what the *norm* is with xanax and the generic version. My doctors are also well aware that I have something within my body chemistry which prevents those types of drugs from having the effects on me which you describe. (This has been true of other types, such as muscle relaxants, too, and for many, many years.) I have gone off of xanax several times with no effect at all except maybe one or two less sleep nights. Oddly enough, I am listed as a "high risk" for using medications because I am allergic to so many. Once we find something I can take without itching, breaking out, or acting *bonkers* , we tend to stick to it for as long as I need it. |
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30 Nov 05 - 10:25 PM (#1617759) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Bobert Well, MG, not only have I expeienxce on mental health from tghe inside but, ahving been a socail worker dealin' with adult clients I know a little from the other side lookin' in an'.... ... you is a nut!!! There, that's purdy much a hit-the-nail-on-the-head diagnosis... If I had to guess it prolly was becasue yer dad din't show you much positive attention but, hey, could have jus as easilly been from gettin' caught masterbatin' in the high school library??? Hard to say, but you is a nutball of the highest order... Bobert |
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01 Dec 05 - 01:35 AM (#1617849) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: LilyFestre Hi Guest, Go see your local Dr., cry and bellyache and whine as much as you need to...let them know what's going on. Chances on that they are going to be very empathetic, get you some meds to help even things out so you can think clearly and get yourself a bit more on track. I can't speak for anyone else except myself, but I know that having a few close friends to talk to, ramble on to, email endlessly were more than helpful for me. Not just people to be kind and coddle me, but also folks who gave me a swift kick in the behind when I really needed it. The doctor was helpful but the people who checked on me, let me cry, hugged me, gave me frequent reality checks...they saved my life. Michelle |
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01 Dec 05 - 01:44 AM (#1617853) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST,Art Thieme Joe O., Please, if this isn't f---ing stupid anti-social activity fom a well known mixer in a thread that has some hurting people trying to have a rather important converstion, I don't have a clue what is! It's time to delete that redundant * post haste!! Art (* = all the euphemisms for G-rated swear words in Jerry's nice thread_ |
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01 Dec 05 - 04:28 AM (#1617896) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Big Al Whittle well its been a very quick and 100% supportive response. we've all tried to profer advice in our own way. and i think depression is tricky stuff - it manifests itself in different ways to different folks. Shortly after a couple of family bereavements, I got these terrible panic attacks. I felt I was going to die. Other people, like our friend feel that life is somehow intolerable - almost the exact opposite of my terror of losing life. it's tough knowing what the answer is to this guy's problems without actually knowing him. but to me the clincher is that final question about life being worth living. it sets warning bells off in my mind. I think maybe Martin was right and you do need some professional help. whatever your problem, depression is a nasty trick our mind plays on us. its very common - look at the swift response you message has evoked. we all have had some experience of it, and we wish you well. I hope we have helped. |
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01 Dec 05 - 08:10 AM (#1618023) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: katlaughing From the first response to this thread and throughout, many of us urged anon to seek professional help, long before Martin Gibson stuck his oar in the water. One can only reiterate that MG would do well to seek professional help, too. |
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01 Dec 05 - 08:24 AM (#1618033) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST,I'd rather not say Thanks all for the well wishes and good advice. I have made an appointment and I am planning on going back on the meds, despite my severe reservations about them. I am also resolving to play more music, drink less or not at all, and get on an exercise program. As for my anonymity, I would like to point out that mental illness is highly stigmatized, unlike most physical illnesses. How much shame and derision does one incur, for example, for a broken bone, stitches, or a heart bypass? (Overweight is also stigmatized, but that is impossible to conceal.) There are many reasons why I would rather not "come out" at this time. I wouldn't have posted here if I wasn't feeling desperate and I didn't know I could trust Cat members to be helpful and caring. Unfortunately, most of the world is not so understanding, and they can be very cruel in exploiting such a weakness. Thanks everyone. |
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01 Dec 05 - 08:24 AM (#1618035) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: The Fooles Troupe ... and some of us who know the Black Dog well, saw that had already been done, and offered some sympathy and practical advice from experience well worth considering in addition to the suggestion to seek real professional advice. It kinda proves that MG ignores most contributions to a thread so that he can massage his ego - seems like a Narcissist... |
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01 Dec 05 - 08:30 AM (#1618042) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST,I'd rather not say Curiously enough, Martin Gibson's posts do not upset me. I recognise him as a fellow traveller with his own issues. And in a way, that is encouraging: that many of use have "issues" that we are all dealing with. Makes me feel less alone. Again, thanks to the group. |
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01 Dec 05 - 08:41 AM (#1618052) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST,ivor GUEST,I'd rather not say. On the one hand, you may find it hard to hear anybody, I suppose. On the other hand, you posted. The people are right. Seek professional help. Look for the one who you think you can work with. In the hope that you are open enough, my reponse to your last question,"Why is life worth living?", it's not about 'Why?' but 'How? In other words my life has meaning because of how i live it. Best wishes |
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01 Dec 05 - 08:47 AM (#1618059) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Bard Judith Moderator: I'd be more concerned about goodbar's post. I do not think it appropriate to 'joke' (if that's what the suggestion could be read as) about suicide to a person with depression. Guest I'd Rather Not Say: My husband has been living with depression for over a year now, and we've gone through many of those same general struggles, including medication / counselling / advice issues. He actually lost his (well-paying) job because he was unable to perform his duties any longer, so it's been difficult in a number of ways - but we have been supported, comforted, and reassured through many people. Depression is indeed often caused by a chemical imbalance (such as low seratonin levels) and should not have the stigma which it still does in some cultural circles. Obviously not here at Mudcat! I'm glad to hear that you are seeking treatment, taking medication, exercising, etc. - just want to affirm you in those self-care decisions. It can be difficult to believe that you are worth it - or that it's necessary - and even more difficult to actually do anything. Kudos for making those steps forward. |
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01 Dec 05 - 08:48 AM (#1618061) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: The Fooles Troupe Laughter is good medicine. My punning often gets worse when I am depressed. |
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01 Dec 05 - 09:13 AM (#1618081) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Liz the Squeak Worse? Gees, it's bad enough already!!! LTS |
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01 Dec 05 - 10:02 AM (#1618107) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Fibula Mattock Some ideas:
I have manic depression and have to take medication for it, probably for the rest of my life. I've been psychotic, and I've been at the point of death with it. Depression is unfair, selfish, frustrating, horrible and heartbreaking. And it definitely exists. I could cry all bloody day at what I've lost, but it's part of my life now and we just have to get on with things I suppose. The medication makes a world of difference for me. I hope it can for you if you choose to take it. |
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01 Dec 05 - 08:51 PM (#1618135) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: robomatic A lot of progress has been made recently toward a greater understanding of Depression, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD), its hazards, its treatments. I've heard a very sensible Doctor speak on the subject on the radio recently, Dr. Peter Kramer. He has authored two books: "Listening to Prozac" and quite recently, "Against Depression". In the first book, which I'm partially through, he goes through the history of Prozac and anti-depressive medication, and case studies of people who he has treated both with and without drugs. More recently, his later book, which I haven't read but I've heard him describe it, goes into the more recent findings of Depression as a debilitating disease which needs to be addressed and treated. He argues that Depression gets worse with age, decreases the satisfaction we get out of life, and potentially damages our brains. His parable argument is: "Why do we tell people that Depression is character building, that we should tough it out. If they have cancer we don't withhold treatment, we don't tell people how fighting it out alone will build character." It is a common affliction which we are still in the dark ages about, but treatments these days are likely doing more good than harm. |
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01 Dec 05 - 09:30 PM (#1618156) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: MASH4077 dear I'd rather not say, I posted here not long ago wondering if suicide really was painless, what caused my aberration was the break-up of a relationship, you don't say if you are in one, but as you say '>>>>>>And then I get to beating myself up for my weakness of character, since I have so much that so many others do not have, and how could I be such an idiot for all this worrying?! I should be so grateful for what I have and who I am! <<<<<<<<< -is it your relationship that is giving you problems, or merely the state of the world out there? if it is your relationship, find a friend to give you solace(even a pet) if it is the world,tricky, for it is chaotic by it's very nature, put some order into it by doing something you like,, and ignore any party-poopers..., plus don't watch any crap T.V soaps!!!!-they are sooo depressing!! ..... |
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01 Dec 05 - 09:44 PM (#1618163) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: bobad There isn't much that I can add to the advice already given. I'd just like to say that as a fellow human being and a fellow mudcatter I care about you and am truly concerned for your well-being. I wish the best for you. |
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01 Dec 05 - 10:10 PM (#1618179) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST,Been There GUEST,I'd rather not say, it looks like you're taking positive steps to handle the problem. That's good. More power to you. I'm sorry for indulging in a bit of a snarl, but from past observations of a (fortunately) few people who occasionally hang out here, I'm not surprised by comments such as, "…..like the fucked up leading the fucked up." This is exactly why I choose to remain anonymous in this thread. Martin Gibson is one of these narrow minded people who assume that just because you've been through a sticky patch, you're henceforth "fucked up" permanently. Anytime you say something on some other thread that he disagrees with, he'll bring it up and try to whip you with it. He's done that sort of thing before. It shows just how "fucked up" he is. I wouldn't wish it on a dog, but perhaps if Martin Gibson were to spend a day or so in that state of anxiety and depression that he seems to regard pretty lightly, it might humanize him a little. Teaching him a little empathy, which he seems to totally lack. |
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01 Dec 05 - 11:21 PM (#1618216) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Deda For me, it was a great breakthrough to really understand that other people have thoughts, feelings, emotional experiences just like mine. Depression is isolating, it tends to make us feel that there's nobody out there who feels this way, nobody else who suffers this. That's the big lie. I'm not God's gift to the world, I'm not waiting to be discovered, I'm not the lowest of the low, nor the highest and brightest. I'm just another bozo on the bus, as my unitarian minister used to say. The thoughts and feelings I have are just human thoughts and feelings, ways of responding to life experiences, options. There are other options out there. It just takes a little effort, a little work to find them and exercise them. We can't be born with anyone else or die with anyone else, but in between we get to connect if we choose to, and it makes the road easier. It's not always easy to connect but it's rewarding. IMHO that's one of the very great beauties of folk music. |
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01 Dec 05 - 11:54 PM (#1618231) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Once Famous Let's get this straight. I have no issues except to say that there are really some very phony ego-strutting doctors on this thread. I am not depressed and have never been told to see a shrink except by a few losers here. It's called confidence and I couldn't be feeling more confident and successful. I don't take it for granted and I count my blessings. If things did go wrong, I would not feel the need to bellyache it on a web forum. Guest, I'd rather not say, I do not feel alone as you state. I wish you well and hope you get the Professional help you need. If I was in your shoes, I don't believe I would turn to some fat, old folksingers. I would turn to God before I would ever do that. Joe Offer, you delete truthful opinions that are not even PERSONAL attacks. Tsk Tsk. |
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02 Dec 05 - 04:35 AM (#1618284) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Big Al Whittle perhaps this is one of those threads Martin when we all need to weigh our words a little more carefully - careful of the destructive effect they might have on a fellow mudcatter who appears to be going through a tough time. Perhaps Joe was weighing your words for you. Personally speaking, my earnest hope about the other side is that God turns out to be a fat old folksinger. |
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02 Dec 05 - 05:04 AM (#1618298) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: mooman Martin Gibson, It is entirely appropriate that IRNS has sought the support of some of those here who he or she trusts and who have also fought The Black Dog. The advice, including thgat from from yourself, has been an almost universal "seek good medical professional support". Seeking the empathy and support of those who have also similarly suffered is, however, entirely natural, understandable and positive. Since you yourself say that you are not a sufferer, perhaps you do not understand this basic need of the human psyche? Respectfully, mooman |
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02 Dec 05 - 05:15 AM (#1618307) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST,chickenbits Hi guest Depression is an extremely common illness. Life can be a challenging and destructive process, sometimes. Years ago I did 8 years of group therapy (a great experience) which helped enormously with working out basic stuff. - not because i was depressed, but because someone asked me into the group. It was a fascinating and enlightening process. A decade or so later, ... shit happened, in a big way. horrible things happened, that should never happen, and I was a witness. At one point I couldnt sleep most nights and was ready to crack. It was time for the pills. I figured I absorbed so much trauma, and my body couldnt take any more. I took then and am still taking them, and now I have a very happy and peaceful life. I wish you well - life does get better. x chickenbits |
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02 Dec 05 - 06:51 AM (#1618349) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: The Fooles Troupe LTS... you'll keep... on ice if necessary... BTW, did I tell you I've now got a chest freezer? |
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02 Dec 05 - 07:02 AM (#1618357) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Liz the Squeak So called because when you bend over it to get the peas out, your chest freezes! GUEST I'd rather not say - I hope you are ignoring the mudslinging here, and taking on board the advice and experiences that others are sharing. The feeling of isolation can be crippling, the fact that there is this place, and on it people who have had those same feelings is a great help to some. However, it doesn't make a good substitute for speaking to a real person, trained in listening, or for the means to correct the chemical imbalances. Martin - I've never been told to go and see a shrink either. I myself decided that I needed to speak to a professional. It's not something I took up lightly, neither is it something I put on my CV.... it's just something I did to try and make my head a better place to live in. LTS |
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02 Dec 05 - 07:07 AM (#1618361) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: saulgoldie I have known some people with depression or anxiety or other related states os mind, and let me assure you, "I'd rather not say" that you are NOT alone. There are MANY others out there. In ALL walks and stations of life. And as you have said, many of them do not want to go public because of the fear of shame or snickering. So they are out there...quietly. But good on you for posting here rather than just quietly doing yourself in. And good on you, too for taking some of the wonderful and caring advice offered here. From what you have said, it is something that you MUST accept the help of others on. So follow through on your promise to get that help. And keep us posted with your progress so that we can stop worrying. And start right now with the music making. That is what brings us together here at the Mudcat Cafe, and it is powerful good stuff. Someone else pointed out that when you sing, your body releases healing endorphins. And that is something very important to you. If you like, you may PM me. I promise I will not share with anyone else whatever you tell me. |
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02 Dec 05 - 08:02 AM (#1618404) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Pied Piper I've been there and back 2 times and I think it's made me a happier and nicer person. The experience can be constructive and give you real insights as you try to return to normality. For me Effexor CBT Exercise Conversation with a good friend who had suffered in the past. If you want to talk in private PM me Good Look PP Martin Martin Superman Jewish NAZI Kosher Ham Manners of the gutter Brains of a Duck Martin we don't give a dam |
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02 Dec 05 - 09:14 AM (#1618469) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST |
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02 Dec 05 - 09:23 AM (#1618478) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST The last post was to check that I am anonymous. I am a member of Mudcat. I choose not to reveal my identity because I don't need the toxic attention of you-know-who. I have had clinical depression all my life, and have been taking treatment for it for the last 15 years. Dear mudcatters,I agree that professional treatment and advice is best. But it is also OK to share with other Mudcatters. Some of us have similar problems. And I wish the mudcat man-behind-the-curtain would understand that it's ok to ban toxic posters. |
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02 Dec 05 - 10:05 AM (#1618509) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Charmion Dear IRNS and other friends, Here's another veteran of the depression war, and I am here to report that Prozac proved very effective when taken in combination with cognitive behaviour therapy, a demanding church choir, and two to three housecats. None of the elements of my recovery program worked particularly well without the others. The pills and the therapy sessions did what they were supposed to do, and the needs of the cats and the church choir added structure to my life that allowed the drugs and the therapy to work. At the same time, they frequently rewarded me with intense pleasure that was innocent, constructive and non-fattening. The therapist and the physician were both humble enough to acknowledge that they had only partial solutions to offer, and invested significant effort in guiding me to identify the things already present in my life that would work with their treatments to get me on the road to recovery. Then they stuck with me to see it through. Your mileage may vary. |
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02 Dec 05 - 12:04 PM (#1618629) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: WFDU - Ron Olesko I'm amazed by something. None of us know who this anonymous poster was. Yet most of us, including MartinGibson, wished this person well and offered advice to seek professional help. While I worry about some of the advice given, I do think it is heartwarming that Mudcatters care. Yet on the other hand, Martin Gibson is just as anonymous. The caring Mudcatters seem to forget all their humanity and strike out at this person with venom. If you re-read this thread, you will notice that Martin did not start out attacking anyone, yet he was attacked - just because he or she is Martin Gibson- an anonymous name that is just as fictious as the poster who started this very thread. For all we know, it could have been Martin. I just think that most of us are afraid to admit we can be as vile as some of the postings attributed to Martin. Instead of turning the other cheek or using compassion, you become just as vile as you accuse him or her of being. What happened to compassion? I've seen many of the posters in this thread make comments against the war and the administration in other threads (and I think that is great!). However, we fail to practice what we preach. I'm sorry, I'm a bit cranky today and seeing all the shithouse lawyers that post here (and I guess I include myself) I wonder if all we are doing is just spinning our wheels to make ourselves look good. Perhaps I should just stay above the BS line, which is what attracted me to Mudcat in the first place. Sorry for my rambling. |
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02 Dec 05 - 12:15 PM (#1618636) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: LilyFestre I noticed that too, Ron but didn't want to say anything lest the backwash begin. I dropped MG a note to say so too. Yeah, I know he has been an asshole in the past but which of us hasn't? Anyway, we are ALL as anonymous here as we want to be. It is nice to see that people do want to help, even when it is someone they don't know. Michelle |
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02 Dec 05 - 12:31 PM (#1618648) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST Correction, Ron. If you read Martin Gibson's first post on this thread, you will note that he attacked GUEST,Been There for choosing to remain anonymous, accusing him or her of being too ashamed (of what? Of having had a bout with depression?) to reveal their identity and implied that the advice given was, therefore, is worthless. Martin Gibson has established a historical pattern of using this sort of thread as an opportunity to bloat his pathetic ego by trying to put other people down. |
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02 Dec 05 - 12:39 PM (#1618654) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Amos I appreciate Martin's stance about qualifications, but I would suggest that SOME variants of depression are precipitated by simply not having enough connections to communicate with, leading to a buildup of unexpressed views and consequent mental paralysis of some sort. Sometimes, just swapping ideas and feelings with peopel willing to respond is enough to start a path out of such a state. This does not pretend to address more solid kinds of clinical depression. The word is a portfolio term that can be used to describe a wide spectrum of conditions which may include biological roots, deeper psychological causes, or be transient, temporary, and addressable by ordinary friendships. A |
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02 Dec 05 - 12:41 PM (#1618656) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: WFDU - Ron Olesko I did re-read it guest. You can read into it what you wish. I think Martin asked some questions which could help the person realize that they need to seek help, not post as an anonymous source. I think people here have a hard time of separating their own notions of Martin Gibson. While I disagree with his stance on many things, I respect the fact that he or she speaks their mind - often asking questions that most of us are afraid to ask of ourselves. As for bloating his ego, I think most of us do that. In a way it is therapy for all of us who post here. Having an ego is not a crime. I don't care to put down people like Martin does, but I notice that those who complain will do the same exact thing - sometimes wrapped in sweeter words. You may hate to admit it, but most of us have a bit of Martin Gibson in each of us. Especially you guest. |
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02 Dec 05 - 12:55 PM (#1618663) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST,analyzing MG MG plays "Everybody Does it" the TA game which allows him to rationalize his questionable (psychopathic) behavior. If he can get other people mad enough to lash out at him, he can rationalize his brutal aggressiveness. Ho hum, pal. I see through your psychopathy. Why not go to a good therapist and work on your own problems? Rationalization. The subject claims false motives for questionable behavior, or downplays the importance of a threat with false reasoning. The classic example is Aesop's fable of the fox and the sour grapes. "Everybody does it" (steals, cheats, lies, etc.) and "it's for your own good" are common rationalized covers for uncomfortable motives. |
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02 Dec 05 - 12:56 PM (#1618665) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST As have you, sir. |
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02 Dec 05 - 12:59 PM (#1618666) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST 12:56 post addressed to Ron. |
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02 Dec 05 - 01:16 PM (#1618675) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: WFDU - Ron Olesko I think I already admitted as much guest. |
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02 Dec 05 - 02:45 PM (#1618756) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: jacqui.c There were already nine posts advising getting professional help before Martin suggested it. What Martin sees as pity I see as compassion, a totally different animal. Unfortunately Martin has the ability to sneer in print and I know that puts up the backs of a number of Mudcatters. I have got to feeling sad that he has to be so confrontational and to effectively enable a serious post to be partially hijacked. I can't really say whether this is his intention but it is tedious to see it happen again and again. I know from my own experience that it helped to know that I was not alone and that other people had not only been through similar experiences but were willing to give what support they could to me. It helped me to see that there were good people out there and that there was somewhere I could go to just talk about the situation in between therapy sessions. Good luck friend, I hope that, with help, you come out the other side into the sunshine |
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02 Dec 05 - 02:52 PM (#1618765) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: WFDU - Ron Olesko "There were already nine posts advising getting professional help before Martin suggested it." And there were at least nine suggestions after it, yet I have not heard anyone complain about the egos of others. Because Martin has been visiable in the past, he is no longer afforded courtesy. You have stooped to the very level that you complain about. He did not hijack this thread, the posts of others directed at him did. Another example of why these forums do not replace professional help. |
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02 Dec 05 - 03:07 PM (#1618780) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: robomatic I understand why GUEST is posing herself as GUEST in order to maintain a defensive posture. But if you are going on the OFFENSE you owe it to the others on this thread to identify yourself. Otherwise you are no better than anyone you choose to attack from behind a blind. It is also less than brave. The unfortunate pattern of "piling on" when ignoring would be a much more effective tactic is once again repeating itself in a thread where it really has no place. And repeating oneself in order to gain a 'last word' is futile. This thread can go on for a long time in 'sez you' mode and it will be very boring. Let's agree that the original poster made an intelligent bid for reactions and got a few useful ones and some perspective. What more can you get from a web thread? Let's hope that all our contributions were useful. |
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02 Dec 05 - 04:50 PM (#1618839) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Charmion I take issue with the assertion that posting to a largely anonymous web forum is a waste of time for a person with a health problem. Depression is a disease that affects the sufferer's ability to think, especially about him/herself. A person with depression is quite capable of believing that s/he should not seek professional help because the doctor has sicker patients more deserving of medical attention, and the time and money spent on therapy should go to more worthy causes. When a depressed person asks for advice about seeking treatment, the question is often at some level a plea for permission to seek treatment. Also, it helps a depressed person accept and comply with treatment when others have told him/her that the treatment helped them. The media are full of conflicting advice about depression therapies, especially anti-depressant medications, and it can be very encouraging to hear one voice saying "This worked in this way for me" -- that is, if the voice has nothing to do with the purveyor of the treatment. Mudcatters come in all shapes, sizes, occupations, ages and personality types. A question to the Mudcat pulls in responses from such a variety of people with such a range of experience that a consistent message in those responses is very convincing. |
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02 Dec 05 - 07:28 PM (#1618926) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Big Al Whittle okay we'll agree you're a nice person Martin, and successful and happy.............just try not to get too depressed about it. having said that, it's a bit daft isn't it, giving advice to people who have problems that you have no experience of....you being happy, successful, and a nice guy. Try to imagine someone putting their foot through the back of your Martin D35. and you have figure someway to make it play again - that's how some people feel about their lives, and they DO need sympathetic voices. There aren't support groups everywhere to help them, they feel isolated. Doctors are okay, but they are medical people, and to them you are a medical problem. they stick the jump leads on and if they get it right - off you go for another few circuits. However we are social animals, when we get a major medical problem we get all sorts of social problems concommittant with it. that's how the friendly voices help Martin. the reason I know about this is because my wife runs a self help group for people with arthritis. She got arthritis from out of the blue when she was 25 years old. the health and social work professionals were crap. they had no advice worth hearing about how to deal with long term pain, loss of bloody everything - status and wealth and career, even how to adapt your house, how to get round a town centre when you can't climb stairs, etc. you had to parley with people who had been there bought the t- shirt, ate the shit supper and thoroughly digested it. depression, has its own disabling agenda - that you have to have lived through - a medical degree just don't cover it anyway that's what I think. I'm sure every contributor to this thread means well. I agree some of the attacks on Martin were unfair and expressed in language that I found distasteful. all the best to evrybody - specially those in pain of whatever kind big al whittle |
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02 Dec 05 - 07:36 PM (#1618941) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: The Fooles Troupe "I agree some of the attacks on Martin were unfair and expressed in language that I found distasteful." 'Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.' 'Those who live by the sword, die by the sword' |
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02 Dec 05 - 08:10 PM (#1618987) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: WFDU - Ron Olesko "He who hesitates is lost" "The early bird catches the worm" "Offer ends at midnight tonight. Void where prohibited by law." |
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02 Dec 05 - 08:55 PM (#1619018) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: The Fooles Troupe "Wise man see more from bottom of well than fool from mountain top." "Wise man see more from mountain top than fool from bottom of well." And many more which I penned... |
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02 Dec 05 - 09:47 PM (#1619033) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: mooman Coming back to the matter in hand after this unnecessary diversion over someone who is seemingly as completely happy and successful as can be. I can only be pleased that that is the case for him. Please do seek good professional medical advice IRNS and please do also feel free to post up here or PM if you feel like it will help, it's your choice, not somebody else's. There are many people in this community (which is a sometime 3D one for a good many of us), including me, who've faced similar problems and can offer support or empathy either through direct experience themselves or otherwise by virtue of some professional involvement or training that they've had. Peace moo |
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02 Dec 05 - 10:05 PM (#1619046) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: WFDU - Ron Olesko My apologies Foolestroupe. I should not have been flip and trying to make light. |
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03 Dec 05 - 04:39 AM (#1619124) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST,ivor It's not that pathetic to come to a site like this initially, if only because therapy and counselling are so disparaged in our society that people are socially discouraged from pursuing those paths. Equally, depression is positively fostered in a stiff-upper-lip society, insofar as depression is about self-repression of feelings, anger and the like. Attitudes like, "Just get on with life" lead in the same direction. I write as a therapist but when i originally posted for GUEST I'd rather not say, i mostly suggested seeking professional advice. I feel the need to add this little bit because attitudes common in our society both foster such conditions as depression and simultaneously put sufferers off helpful ways forward, putting them in an impossible position. One of the greatest discoveries i made when i began my therapy course was the number of times, when someone began to talk of their problem, someone else responded in terms of,"Blimey, I'm NOT ALONE". |
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03 Dec 05 - 08:20 AM (#1619200) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Leadfingers I will relieve my own anxiety by sneaking another 100th post ! |
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03 Dec 05 - 08:27 AM (#1619205) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Dave the Gnome I was anxious about getting the 100th! I'm depressed about missing it now... DtG |
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03 Dec 05 - 08:42 AM (#1619220) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Azizi Here's a true story. My ex-husband and a close girlfriend of mine "Marie" had a friend named "Bob" who I only knew slightly. Bob was a wonderful tenor saxophonist. It was pure beauty to hear him play. He also loved to compose music. Bob also was Black and he was noticiably gay. Bob was diagnosed with clinical depression. Marie was a graduate psychology student. Bob knew this. He was going through therapy to help him cope with his depression, and [but?] he often talked with Marie about it. In particular he would talk to her about the difficulties he had in his childhood, and the fact that he had a difficult time resolving his homosexuality with his Christian religious beliefs. Bob shared with Marie that he was constantly being put down and made fun of because of his homosexuality, and this was very difficult for him to bear. During one period of time Bob repeatedly called Marie and told her he was going to kill himself. Each time Marie talked him out of it. However, one evening, in response to Bob telling her that he was going to kill himself, Marie said that she could not tell another person what to do with his life, and if his life was too difficult for him to bear, and if he had tried all he could to cope, than she couldn't tell him what to do with it. In essence, Marie told Bob that if he wanted to kill himself, than that was his choice. That evening Bob killed himself. Understandably, Marie was devastated. She blamed herself for what she had said, and it took a while before she got herself back together emotionally. Why am I sharing this? I would like some comments on what a person should say to someone who says that he or she is going to kill him or herself. From my second hand experience, it seems to me that one should never say "If this is what you want to do, go ahead". Thank you. |
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03 Dec 05 - 08:58 AM (#1619228) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: SINSULL Say nothing. Using physical force if necessary get him to professional help. I have done this with two different people. Both got immediate help. One was not considered an actual suicide threat. The other was locked away for three months on heavy drugs and intense therapy. Both were grateful much later. Your friend meant well but her semi-professional sessions kept him from getting real help. Very sad, Azizi. |
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03 Dec 05 - 09:01 AM (#1619230) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: LilyFestre I had a friend who called me one night to tell me she had written 3 letters...one to her mom and dad, her girlfriend and me. They were goodbye letters and she had had enough of this world. I kept her on the phone for about an hour. In that time I asked her details, how did she plan to do it, why she thought that was the only way out, etc and hung up with a promise from her that I would hear from her the following day at a particular time. She gave me her word. I promptly hung up and dialed 911. An ambulance arrived at her home, took her to the hospital where she had her stomach pumped and a 3 day stay in the psych unit. She was mad at me for some time but has since gotten over it and is leading a decent life. I don't care if you think the person is serious or not...your friend is the perfect example. We don't ever know how desparate another human being is truly feeling. I wouldn't ever chance it....call for help immediately. Michelle |
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03 Dec 05 - 09:23 AM (#1619243) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Charmion During my 20s, I was a medic in the Canadian armed forces. Suicide is a problem among military people, who tend to be young and are often exposed to great stresses without much in the way of emotional support. My dear old sergeant told me that anyone who talks about suicide must be taken absolutely seriously, and never given the idea that friends or superiors agree with suicidal ideas. One of the training cadre at the recruit school told me a horror story: an irritating recruit had been bothering her with whiny complaints of suicidal feelings, and the corporal finally lost her temper and said, "If you feel that bad, you had better go and hang yourself." Sure enough, the dratted girl did just that, with the belt of her corduroy dressing gown from a hook in the barrack shower room. My best friend from high school committed suicide at 30, on perhaps her sixth or seventh attempt. I interrupted her penultimate effort by a sheer freak of chance, and thought my task complete when the ambulance arrived and whisked her away to the psych ward via the dialysis unit -- she was 'way beyond the stomach pump by then. She always used the same method, drug overdose, and the next time, about 18 months later, she perfected the timing and wound up dead. At the funeral, her cousin told me that there was nothing anyone could have done; she had been at some level bound and determined to do it since she was about 12, the age at which she made her first attempt. The difference between my friend and the recruit is that my friend never told anyone she was considering suicide. She never wrote letters, made phone calls, or engaged anyone with long whiny chats about her feelings. (Depressed people are not good company. Trust me on this.) Those who tell you they are considering suicide are, indeed, considering suicide -- but have not made a firm decision to do it yet. They are trying out the idea, looking for confirmation or even permission. The last thing you want to do is give that permission. As some of you know, |
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03 Dec 05 - 09:31 AM (#1619252) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Donuel Instead of defining depression as a "thinking disorder" we should all consider it to be a condition of agoninzing pain. A pain so severe that life itself is too much of a burden to bear. Thoughts are thoughts BUT when you are in pain, you get treatment. |
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03 Dec 05 - 09:47 AM (#1619264) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Big Al Whittle Three or four times people have phoned up my wife in desperation at their plight on being diagnosed with arthritis. In particular, the medical advice being - okay so you've got this disease - now go home and get on with it. On at least two occasions I've picked up the phone and they have had the bottle of drugs in their hand ready to kill themselves. Basically it has been the isolation that has lead them to feel like this. In each case they have become enthusiastic members of a self help group and turned their lives around. What killed the gay christian was not the lady's response - it was not having other people to turn to, people who had coped with and survived the mental turmoil of a similar situation. we are not on our own, there is always love and help for us - but sometimes, we just don't know where to look for it. Mudcat wasn't a bad call. Perhaps it will be the gateway to seeking more personal face to face help, which is really better. |
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03 Dec 05 - 12:56 PM (#1619346) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Once Famous Blah, blah, blah. Big Al, it's a D18, not a D35. I take good care of it. If it got crushed by a steamroller, I would go out and buy another. Foolestroupe, can't you come up with a saying of your own? I don't see any swords around. Never keep them in the house. You remind me of an old lady with your tsk tsking and hand wringing. Pretty funny. |
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03 Dec 05 - 01:14 PM (#1619359) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Big Al Whittle keep polishing Martin, who knows one day it will grow into something as nice as a yamaha CPX15cm. They may be a sushi board to you - perhaps its the way you play them. |
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03 Dec 05 - 02:02 PM (#1619376) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST,Who was that masked man, anyway? I once heard a disable person refer to those not disabled as "temporarily abled." He explained this by pointing out that it only takes a split second to change a person's life. Christopher Reeve was big, strong, and handsome, and in the movies he was the ideal image of Superman. While taking part in a riding competition, his horse balked at a jump and Reeve tumbled off the horse, over the fence, and broke his neck. He spent the rest of his life in a wheelchair, breathing with the aid of a respirator. An automobile accident, a stumble on a stairway, a virus entering one's system in a single breath…. In a split second, one's life can change drastically. We are all vulnerable, a fact we don't like to think about. There are various theories as to how depression begins. It could be triggered by the circumstances in one's life, such as the death of a friend or relative, the loss of a job, a break-up in a relationship, any of a number of things. Or it may be a physical cause, such as an imbalance of neurotransmitters such as serotonin. Biochemistry is so complex that it's often difficult to pin down why a person may feel fine one day, then wake up miserably depressed, or suddenly begin to have anxiety attacks for no apparent reason. Biochemistry is such a complex field that it is even possible that depression could be brought on by the inhalation or ingestion of some sort of allergen or environmental pollutant. Many other illnesses are caused by things of this sort, so there is no reason to think that they might not just as well play a part in physically triggered emotional disorders. Considering that Martin Gibson lives in proximity to a civic and industrial center like Chicago, one has no idea of what sort of environmental toxins or allergens he may be inhaling or ingesting from time to time. Considering the variety that may be present in such a local, and if it is true that such things can possibly trigger depression or anxiety attacks, no matter how happy and fulfilled he deems himself to be, he is, nevertheless, "temporarily abled." One wonders how a few unknown molecules born on a vagrant breeze and inadvertently inhaled might interact with all of the lead paint chips he ate as a child. Hi-yo Silver! Away! |
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03 Dec 05 - 02:07 PM (#1619380) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Big Al Whittle yeh he might get tennis elbow polishing his D18 |
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03 Dec 05 - 07:36 PM (#1619534) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: patmc Guest, rather not say, Hang in there- I've been through this in the recent past and there is a lot you can do. Depression is a real illness and it is curable. The big thing is to get some help and not keep it to yourself. For me anxiety and depression turned out to be fairly separate although I think that the anxiety was caused by how hard it was to keep going during the depression. The sheer willpower needed to do the smallest thing was brutal. It is impossible to explain depression to someone who has not had it. Anxiety and panic attacks are often linked to a phenonomen called 'over breathing' which leads to very low CO2 levels. I was admitted to hospital with chest pains - turned out the CO2 levels were so low that my chest muscles were cramping. It also was giving me stinking headaches and leaving me very tired. The old cure for stage fright of breathing in and out of a paper bag works by increasing the CO2. In australia and new zealand there is a whole branch of physiotherapy dealing with over-breathing. (also called hyperventilation syndrome) My (australian)doctor recommended this workbook by Dinah Bradley http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1856262952/qid=1133654662/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/203-3416425-5840726I It is a short book and straightforward. After about a fortnight practicing the chest pains stopped. I still do the exercises three of four times a day as it relaxes me a lot. The depression had crept up on me over a period of four or five years. I didn't know what was wrong with me until i finally went to the doctor because I couldn't sleep. He diagnosed a clinical depression and proscribed anti-depressants and therapy. They were a huge help. After eighteen months and some psychotherapy I came off them and although I felt much better I still had no enthusiasm for life. I could handle things but there was no joy in it. A friend put me in touch with a hypnotherapist, larry mcmahon in county kerry , ireland. www.larrymcmahon.com Going to him was one of the major experiences in my life. It made a huge difference. For the first time in years I picked up an instrument again (which is why I have just found mudcat cafe). I've rooted out my old sketch books and started teaching my children to draw. larry mcmahon is a wonderful man and I have no qualms about recommending him. He is the first to admit that he does not know why hypnosis can work against depression but it very often does. I suspect myself that our unconscious mind can have considerable effect on the bio-chemistry of our body. An ex-girlfriend did her PhD on this. Between therapy, anti-depressants, exercise and hyno-therapy the black dog is gone. Depression is very common. I have discovered that all sorts of things can start it, including viral and bacterial infection, tick fever(lyme disease) and malaria, liver damage, shock, trauma, long term stress, even food allergies and damage to your digestive system. The good news is that you really can beat it and get your joy in life and motivation back. First step is to talk to people and you have already done that here. Second is to get to the doctor- and if you don't feel satisfied with the first one then just head for another. Feel free to email me. Regards Pat |
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03 Dec 05 - 11:02 PM (#1619607) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: SINSULL Good point, Patmc. Find a therapist you can relate to. I went through several before I found someone with whom I connected. If the therapist seems to you to be an idiot, it is the therapist and not you who is the problem. |
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04 Dec 05 - 01:08 PM (#1619848) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Once Famous Masked Moron: Our wonderful lakefront proximity has Chicago's air ranked amongst the cleanest urban areas their is. With all of the pot you smoke, you should worry about your own lungs, pal. Mine were just checked out fine. And the D18 sounded and looked great at my gig last night. People take notice of a vintage Martin. |
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04 Dec 05 - 02:33 PM (#1619875) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST,Who was that masked man, anyway? First of all, I have never smoked pot in my life. You've already said on a couple of threads that you did for years, so you could brag that you gave it up. You make all sorts of assumptions about people you know nothing about. The mark of the bigot. Secondly, kemo slobby, you missed my point entirely, probably because of the brain damage from the lead paint chips you ingested early on, combined with the lingering cannabis molecules still searching vainly for your brain. The point is that you may be in fair shape now, but all of that can change in a split second. So don't get too smug. You're just as vulnerable as any of the people you sneer at. Just wait. Any time now. Maybe soon, maybe later. What a dork! C'mon, Tonto, let's get out of here. Our job is fighting injustice, not stupidity. |
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04 Dec 05 - 05:26 PM (#1619959) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST " What a dork! C'mon, Tonto, let's get out of here. Our job is fighting injustice, not stupidity." ROTFLMAO! Martin, you moron- you deserved that. hahaha |
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04 Dec 05 - 07:47 PM (#1620038) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Once Famous Maybe never, pal. Masked moron. You and Tonto are linked so well together. Like a couple of train cars. And we know how you are coupled. So, Masked Moron, better get that HIV check. Tonto as a caboose is not holding on to you as tightly as you once liked it. |
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04 Dec 05 - 08:06 PM (#1620053) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Big Al Whittle lost us there Martin.... must be awful coming up with these shafts of wit and even intellectuals of my calibre are going, of what is it that this man speaks? |
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04 Dec 05 - 08:27 PM (#1620063) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Azizi I don't know about anyone else, but the Thanksgiving through New Years day holiday season is quite hard for me to get through. Then too, it might also because I live in a city that gets very little sunlight-I've read that's a reason why people can be depressed. I love decorated Christmas trees and some of the other Christmas declorations, but the ho ho ho fake merryment [not to mention the commercialized Christmas songs]gets on my ever lasting nerves. {which is admittedly not the same thing as being anxious or depressed, but I admit to those feelings too.} |
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04 Dec 05 - 08:41 PM (#1620073) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Peace BAH, HUMBUG! |
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04 Dec 05 - 09:26 PM (#1620099) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Azizi Yeah that's what I said. But you know what happened to Ebenezer Scrooge. He learned from his past and became Mr. nice guy-which [shades of the Lone Ranger & Tonto] may have nothing to do with the topic being discussed. |
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04 Dec 05 - 10:33 PM (#1620141) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST It is to laugh, oh, homophobic one (note how Martin Gibson accuses people he knows nothing about of being gay; psychiatrists call that "projection"). Here you are on this thread, being your usual insulting, irrelevant self, while on another thread you are whining about people being hostile to you and diverting a thread you started. For over a year, that's about all you did: posted snotty remarks, insulted people, and tried to get the thread off its subject. Now, once, you've got people doing that to a thread you started, and you can't take it. Well, suck it up! The buzzards are coming home to roost, lame brain. Can you say "chutzpah?" |
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04 Dec 05 - 11:22 PM (#1620163) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST Ron Olesko ... good posts ...well said! sIx |
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04 Dec 05 - 11:23 PM (#1620166) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: number 6 Guest 11:22 pm is me .... sIx |
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04 Dec 05 - 11:47 PM (#1620173) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Once Famous Wee little drummer, to make it more intellectual for you, the Masked Man and Tonto were always jokingly accused of having a close relationship, as 2 lonely man on the range could have. Or even simpler, Al, they were fags. Guest, I believe you are probably a fag so easily offended. The only thing I eat up is how full of shit you are, and I love telling you so. You are a riot and I love that you get so bent out of shape over it. Really do! Psychiatrists call continuous anonymity, paranoid. Deal with it, Guest. I take you as about as seriously as I do most idiots and morons who post here as guests. |
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05 Dec 05 - 02:26 AM (#1620205) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: mooman And this foulmouthed idiot has the nerve to call himself religious... mooman |
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05 Dec 05 - 02:54 AM (#1620210) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Big Al Whittle oh I dunno, I bet lots of religious people are foul mouthed idiots on the quiet. The Bible just doesn't bother telling us how John the Baptist reacted when his loin cloth got itchy, or what Jesus said when the five thousand were being fed and someone said, sorry no bread mate I'm on a diet and I never eat fish, can't stand that smell.......have you got anthing else? |
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05 Dec 05 - 06:47 AM (#1620283) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: saulgoldie People, I do not think this Martin-bashing and homophobia is going to help IRNS. His/her post is curious in its timing. It may be a chronic condition. But as Azizi pointed out there are significant numbers of people for whom the diminished daylight is a real emotional health issue. And of course, add that to the holiday stress with abnormal eating patterns, societal spending imperatives, and other unnatural expectations. I hope IRNS follows through on her/his promises to go to the shrink, get the meds, and start exercizing. But s/he might also consider some seasonal lights. These are full spectrum higher intensity lights that used properly fool the body into thinking it isn't really that dark or cold. (I think this has actually been discussed before on the Mudcat.) |
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05 Dec 05 - 07:11 AM (#1620293) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Azizi Here's the full article: Winter Depression How do You Know if You Have It? By Joseph Mercola with Sarah Potts It is the time of year when people are reporting feeling depressed during the dark, cold winter months. The less sunshine we see, the more dark people feel. This dip in mood is thought to be caused by lowered levels in serotonin, a chemical in the brain, and an increase in the production of melatonin, a sleep-related hormone secreted by the pineal gland in the brain, which is produced at increased levels in the dark. The decreased levels of serotonin and the increased levels of melatonin in the brain have been linked to people suffering from SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder), a mood disorder associated with depression episodes and related to seasonal variations of light. SAD affects 10 million to 25 million Americans every winter season during the months of September to April, in particular during December, January and February. Out of those who are affected, 60 percent to 90 percent are women, and SAD occurs more frequently in younger people in there 20s. SAD symptoms include: Desire to oversleep Feeling of fatigue and inability to carry out a normal routine A craving for sugary and/or starchy foods, usually resulting to weight gain Loss of self-esteem Difficulty concentrating and processing information Tension and inability to tolerate stress Decreased interest in sex and physical contact Full remission from depression occur in the spring and summer months This time of year is the peak season for SAD, and there are still a few more months that provide the least amount of sunshine in the entire year. Some experts believe the condition is treatable by conventional therapies like antidepressant drugs, but there are simple and inexpensive steps to take to combat the winter blues. Compensate for lack of sunshine There are many reasons why people get sick in the time period described and the lack of sunlight is one important variable. One of the ways that you can compensate for the lack of sunshine in the winter is through the use of full spectrum lights. It is VERY important to know that the only valid full spectrum lights are fluorescent lights. The full spectrum bulbs are compact fluorescents and can screw in a normal fixture. If one factors in the health benefits, it is a non-issue; the bulbs win hands down. I have used them over the past six years and they have provided an enormous benefit in my ability to tolerate the miserable cold and dark winter months. Get to sleep at a normal hour The lack of sunshine also mandates an earlier sleeping time. Ideally, we should be in bed shortly after sunset. In the winter that is 6:00 p.m. Most of us go to bed four or more hours later, which tends to impair the adrenal glands and secondarily the immune system. To learn more about how to get a good night's sleep, please review my sleep guidelines. Stay away for sugary or starchy foods Other issues, which are related to SAD, are the cravings of comfort food, which tends to be greasy, salty or sweet food. Although, eating these foods may give you temporary relief, they aren't good for you in the long run. The consumption of sugary or starchy foods can lead to all types of diseases, such as cancer and diabetes, along with obesity. Following an optimal nutrition plan is essential for one's health. Exercise Exercise is known to boost people's moods and is good for depression. I suggest you come up with an exercising plan. There will be days in the winter where the sun is out, I suggest you take advantage of those days and go on a nice walk. However, realistically we don't see a lot of those days and the weather can be quite brisk, so another alternative you should highly consider is joining a health club or purchasing a couple of pieces of home exercise equipment. I recommend a treadmill, which is great for walking on an incline or jogging, or an elliptical machine along with an appropriate size weight set to start. Fish Oil is essential There are a number of studies that show that the use of cod liver oil and fish oil, rich in essential omega-3, are associated with decreased depression. Please review my article, Defeating Depression: As Easy As Omega-3 that I posted, to learn more about the association between omega-3 and depression. The main difference between cod liver oil and fish oil is that cod liver oil is high in vitamin D. In warm weather, the sunshine produces high and usually sufficient levels of vitamin D without any supplementation necessary. In the cold, winter months, some people might be vitamin D defiant and may need vitamin D, and so I recommend cod liver oil versus fish oil in cool weather months or climates. However, it is important to remember that both oils are linked to decreasing depression. And, after several years of research, I now offer Carlson's brand fish oil and cod liver oil on my Web site. I've found that Carlson's offers the most superior quality. Their fish oil and cod liver oil in liquid form contain the highest levels of essential omega-3 and follow the strictest purity guidelines. Visit the website store to make a convenient purchase. Following these steps is a surefire way to get you out of the dark mood of winter." -snip- Related articles are listed after this article. I re-posted the entire article since I think its suggestions may be of merit. However, I think the "sure-fire cure" statement is probably a bit over-confident. And I don't like the "dark"="bad" descriptor...but that's a whole 'nuther subject.. At least I can smile about it and post ;0} instead of ;o( |
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05 Dec 05 - 09:22 AM (#1620358) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST,I'd rather not say Thanks again to everyone for the ongoing caring and support. I do have an appointment at which I will get my perscription renewed. And while I have been feeling poorly for some months now, it does seem to be worse in recent months with the dark hours lengthening. I will see if I can't also get a prescription for a light. I do hope that people ease their worrying about me. Things are looking definitely up. I can say without reservation that the support here has been very helpful. |
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05 Dec 05 - 09:51 AM (#1620389) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Charmion Most of my paternal kin-group are winter depressives to some extent; it is a great pity the ancestors picked Canada as their emigration target! We find light boxes and sunlight-effect light bulbs very helpful, and I also keep winter-blooming houseplants. Orchids are remarkably easy to grow, and -- like cats -- so beautiful they just have to be good for you. Azizi, I feel for you on the Christmas-rammed-down-the-throat problem. It's bad enough in comparatively restrained Ottawa; I can't imagine how oppressive it must be in the States, where bigger, sooner and more expensive seems to be the constant theme of much public culture. This year, for the first time, the big downtown Ottawa stores began putting out their Christmas merchandise before Hallowe'en, and the whole thing makes me want to knock my head against a concrete wall. I can't think of a thing I want for Christmas except maybe an opportunity to sit around the house for several days with no social or professional obligations to attend to except feeding Edmund and the cats, and I know I'm not unusual. The only solution I have ever found for Christmas frenzy is deliberation. I observe Advent, the penitential season before Christmas, with conscious effort. That means a plain diet (no Christmas goodies before Christmas), and no tree or other decorations until Christmas Eve. I tidy and clean the house, and do tasks I have been putting off. I make the more complicated things for the Christmas feast, such as fruitcake and steamed puddings. And I do the dreaded Christmas shopping. That's it. It helps that I don't have children hassling me with demands ("Everybody else has their tree up; why can't we?"), and I don't watch television. Office Christmas parties are avoidable (they're no fun, so no loss). And of course I belong to a church that takes both Advent and Christmas very seriously, so I have a life-long pattern to follow. Basically, I consider the hassle of commercial Christmas simply part of the dues I have to pay for the privilege of living in this impossibly rich and indulgent culture. |
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05 Dec 05 - 09:56 AM (#1620393) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Liz the Squeak Glad to hear it IRNS, and thanks for the vote of confidence - when you're in "our condition", mindless and aimless insults can hurt doubly, but a kind word says more than anything. LTS |
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05 Dec 05 - 05:19 PM (#1620650) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: robomatic Good on ya IRNS. Yer not alone and in going over this thread you can clearly see several incipient depressives nibblin' at each other, so you have some folks worse off to compare yerself with! |
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05 Dec 05 - 05:49 PM (#1620684) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: autolycus Good luck IRNS. heartening what mudcatters can offer, and lovingly; not everyone, of course, so we're batting about, or somewhat above, average. |
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05 Dec 05 - 06:01 PM (#1620694) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Dead Horse I do not believe in an "afterlife", but I can say that life is definately worth living. Think about it. What does tomorrow hold? Nuff said? |
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05 Dec 05 - 06:55 PM (#1620736) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Peace Good news to hear, IRNS. |
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05 Dec 05 - 06:56 PM (#1620740) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Big Al Whittle What does tomorrow hold Tuesday.....entertaining letters from people on Mudcat, a choice of folk clubs Spondon, Sutton in Ashfield, or Mansfield, the re-run of Howards Way on UK Drama. theres people in the siberian salt mines who would be glad of that...even Howards way |
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05 Dec 05 - 11:43 PM (#1620902) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Once Famous This thread has been brought to you by a lot of unqualified mental health care wannabees. Be with us next time when someone starts whining here on how depressed they are and they all visit with us again. Hey mooman, struck a nerve real close to your heart, huh? Most religious people have no use for homosexuality or men butt-fucking, I would think. Most people who care about traditional family life don't either. |
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06 Dec 05 - 03:49 AM (#1620971) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Big Al Whittle no use.....? is somebody asking you to make use of it Martin? It's obviously a bit like Yamaha guitars, just not for you. Do you not have any gay friends? Mind you I'm not sure i'd wish the traditions of my family life on anyone. We ain't exactly the gang from the Norman Rockwell painting. |
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06 Dec 05 - 04:28 AM (#1620983) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: mooman ...are you suggesting I am gay Martin? Not that it is of any of your business whatsoever or that it should matter one jot, but no... I am not and never have been and I am also a family man. But I do have gay friends of both sexes. What of it? All of this is totally immaterial to this thread as is you raising the subject of homosexuality. The point of this thread is that IRNS was seeking some support and advice and received it, and seems to have benefited by it. What is your point? mooman |
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06 Dec 05 - 07:07 AM (#1621038) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Azizi There is another aspect of depression & anxiety that I don't think has been mentioned here. People can be depressed because they or people they love have a life threatening physical condition. And anniversary dates for traumatic events in a person's life can contribute to a person being depressed. My long time, very best girlfriend of thirty years died one year ago on November 11th of lung and brain cancer. And my other very best girlfriend also has cancer and has been given three months to live. I have to remind myself of the power of anniversary dates. I acknowledge that my best girlfriend's passing and my other girlfriend's terminal illness are {among} the stressors in my life. Knowing that I am facing stressors, I am giving myself permission to be sad and to grieve for my friend who is gone. I am also preparing my head and heart for the loss of my other friend. Some people may think it is selfish to consider your self under these circumstances. But I feel that if I am going to remain {reasonably} emotionally healthy, it is important for me to grieve both for my friend who is gone, and for my friend who is probably dying. It's even difficult to write this. But there it is. |
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06 Dec 05 - 10:00 AM (#1621140) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Big Al Whittle its true what you say Azizi - nothing prepares you for the pain of separation. I remember when my dad used to take the puppies away from our dog. She used to look everywhere for them - digging holes trying to find them. In such circumstances, we need to be easy with ourselves.. I am sorry for all your hurt. al |
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06 Dec 05 - 06:36 PM (#1621533) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST Martin Gibson, methinks you protest too much. Your obsession with telling everybody how gay you are NOT says a lot about you. The Lone Ranger and Tonto, and Batman and Robin are comic book, radio, and movie characters. Batman likes girls. Remember Vicky Vale? Except for Batman, who is straight, they don't have a sex life. Bert and Ernie are puppets. I just thought someone should tell you. By the way, Jerry Falwell tells us that Tinky Winky is gay (personally, I think Jerry Falwell has a problem himself, after all, he was the one that "outed" Bert and Ernie). And unless there is something we don't know about Dipsy, Lala, and Po, he doesn't have a partner. Since he's about your intellectual equal, I just thought you might be interested. (Now watch him attack me and accuse me of being gay. It's pretty obvious that the whole idea of "gay" really bothers this guy. I wonder why........) |
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06 Dec 05 - 08:53 PM (#1621599) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Once Famous Being gay doesn't bother me pal, because I am not. It obviously bothers the hell out of you though. If you enjoy gay society around you I believe that is your problem. I don't give a damn about what Jerry Falwell says. And I am glad that you are such an expert on gays and comic books. You are such a prophet, aren't you? I don't think you are gay. An idiot, maybe, but not gay. |
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06 Dec 05 - 09:43 PM (#1621623) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST |
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06 Dec 05 - 09:44 PM (#1621626) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST Go back home, Martin! |
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06 Dec 05 - 09:58 PM (#1621633) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Once Famous This is my home. I have moved into Mudcat, Guest. There goes the neighborhood. Now you have the diversity you love. PS, I won't read your link. I never click on the links some try to attack me with. Never. Don't waste your time. OK, pal? |
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06 Dec 05 - 10:16 PM (#1621638) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST,6:36 PM No, Martin Gibson, I'm not bothered at all. I'm married myself (to a woman – and before you make the kind of stupid assumption you love to make, I'm a man), and it so happens that among our many friends, a few of them are gay. About the same percentage as the general population. They're good people, they lead perfectly normal lives, and what they do in the privacy of their own homes is nobody's business but theirs. You have gay friends too, but you probably don't know it. Knowing what a narrow-minded bigot you are, they would hardly let you find out about it. You're pathetically funny in a sick sort of way, and I thought someone ought to point it out to you, so I did. Interesting link, GUEST,09:44 PM. He sure gets around. Same stuff everywhere. |
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07 Dec 05 - 07:45 AM (#1621859) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: LilyFestre Hey Guest I'd Rather Not Say... How are you doing these days? Just thinkin' aboutcha. Michelle |
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07 Dec 05 - 08:14 AM (#1621877) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST,I'd rather not say Thanks for asking, Michelle. I am doing GREAT today. I went to my appointment yesterday, got my meds, and started right them right away. I am thinking of getting a seasonal lamp, too. I suppose there may be some psychosomatic aspect in that I am taking care of my situation rather than being owned by it. But regardless of whether it is that or the meds the fact is that I slept decently last night, got up feeling MUCH better, and the day is off to a fantastic start. Onward to other lifestyle changes--exercize, diet, and taking care of things before they pile up. Life is looking better all the time. Thanks SO MUCH for your caring. |
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07 Dec 05 - 09:02 AM (#1621904) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Janie Great to hear, IRNS. As it happens, I AM a licensed mental health professional. Research on best practices strongly indicates the benefit of community and natural supports in helping people recover from clinical depression, among other disorders. Helping those who need help to do it link to non-professional social support systems, (be that a Sunday school class, a song circle, or an on-line chat or forum where the person feels reasonabley safe) is a recognized and sanctioned intervention. I'm really glad you went to see a professional, and I'm also really glad you have sought out informal sources of support such as us folks here on the 'Cat. Janie |
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07 Dec 05 - 09:09 AM (#1621908) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Liz the Squeak Oh Janie.... you shouldn't have admitted that... you'll be getting PMs for private consultations from weird music loving depressives - those who listened to too many Leonard Cohen records 30 years ago!!! IRNS - see, you were helping others when you put this thread up.... I'm having a good day too! LTS |
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07 Dec 05 - 11:00 AM (#1621973) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: LilyFestre :) Minute by minute.... Glad to hear you are off to a rip roaring start! Kudos to you for doing something GOOD for yourself!!! :) Michelle |
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07 Dec 05 - 03:11 PM (#1622123) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST Your implication is that all gays are HIV positive. Martin Gibson, your ignorance and bigotry know no bounds. And as I said, you DO have gay friends, you just don't know it. No, on the other hand, with your attitude, I don't think any gay person would want to be a friend of yours. It's a wonder that anyone at all, gay or not, wants you for a friend. On the other hand, maybe you DO have gay friends. Anyone with your attitude toward gays is obviously latent. There may be someone waiting around for you to realize it, admit it to yourself, and come out of the closet. But then, anyone that hard up is probably as sick as you are. |
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07 Dec 05 - 05:13 PM (#1622193) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST,patmc IRNS Great to hear you are handling it - and good sleep is sooooo nice Pat |
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07 Dec 05 - 08:18 PM (#1622322) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Big Al Whittle I can't help thinking you should publish a manifesto, Martin. Sort of a fair warning anouncement. If one enters into discourse with me you are going to have the following buttons pushed. I suppose some daft sods take it all seriously. I don't know though. the thing is that gay people do still encounter a lot of predjudice over here in England. One gay couple, we know, they had been together as long as me and my wife(had to count - 36 years). One of them died recently and the will was challenged by the guy's relatives. In a way that they never would challenge the right of a heterosexual married couple to leave their estates to each other. People who go through stuff like that, probably don't join in with the chortling wind-up. Im guessing, but maybe Chicago is such a sophisticated place that stuff like that doesn't happen and the kind of things you are saying here are so beyond the pale that nobody would say them in public. You wouldn't hear them in respectable middle class bars in England, but you might hear a few hairy arsed members of the lower orders come out with that and worse. Particularly when drunk. You're a hard man to figure out Martin Gibson. |
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08 Dec 05 - 09:28 AM (#1622696) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: autolycus IRNS. Good news. Wishing you well. Speaking as a qualified therapist, I'd like to say you can't figure other people out because you can't be them or be inside them. You can respond honestly, say what you notice, and if they're not interested, then that's it. It's quite hard enough trying to figure oneself out. Much of any and every human is beyond understanding anyway. And if you decide that the other isn't listening ....... True listening is pretty hard to do, and anyway, plenty of people find being truly heard hard to take; they can become uncomfortable. So I didn't offer much to IRNS beyond pointing them towards professional help because I would want direct contact with the person,which is not obtainable via a screen. However, reaching out, as IRNS did, was, rather than a pathetic thing to do, actually a brave thing to have done. Would that more were that brave; it's certainly more courageous than gun-toting. The courage shows up in the relative rarity of people doing so in society(especially here in stiff-upper-lip UK). Going to a professional is also seen as selfish, which is odd in a society that encourages making money, owning property, becoming famous. The fact is that , for each of us, there is only one person who can live our life. I'm personally not to keen on taking stuff, if only because you are thereby avoiding getting to the roots of whatever is going on, and stuff can have undesirable side-effects. There are alternatives, like exercise, as was said, and eating better ("You ARE what you eat"not yet sourced) See, for example Nutritional Medicine by Dr. Davies and Dr.Stewart. And of course therapy or counselling. |
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08 Dec 05 - 06:51 PM (#1623208) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: robomatic Martin Gibson, I hope that was some lying Guest utilizing your name in order to muddy the waters. |
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08 Dec 05 - 06:55 PM (#1623213) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Peace IRNS: Great to hear from and about you. I posted as a guest somewhere above--depression is a cast iron sonuvabitch, and I really hope you stay with the 'program', and please post when you have some down times. They will happen despite meds and therapy, and sometimes just knowing that people care can make a world of difference. |
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11 Dec 05 - 08:32 AM (#1624907) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST,I'd rather not say Hi folks. Not to keep the spotlight on myself, but so many have been so caring, I thought I'd give an update. I am doing much better. The meds have taken the harsh edge off of the anxiety, and I can think more clearly and with more balance. I still feel apprehensive about taking them, and also that there is something wrong with me that I need to do so. But I am not dwelling on these notions. As I said, doing well, onward and upward. Now to take back control of my life. Thanks again for all the warm caring. Mudcat is a GREAT collection of people! |
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11 Dec 05 - 08:32 PM (#1625310) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Once Famous What's the difference, Robo? If it isn't some fags getting bent out of shape for what I say or think, it will be some one else for what they say or think. If people want to be gay, they can go fuck each other, that's fine. Gays with attitude who flaunt their dementia life style to upset mainstream society and traditional family values are fair game in my book. |
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12 Dec 05 - 06:43 AM (#1625496) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST Traditional famly values like mutilating babies with the Bris. |
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12 Dec 05 - 08:42 AM (#1625553) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: saulgoldie Focus, people. This thread is about the troubles of IRNS. There are other threads for gay-bashing and anti-circumcision arguments. |
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12 Dec 05 - 10:33 AM (#1625629) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Azizi I woke up this morning with this song in my head: "If I can help somebody as I travel along If I can cheer somebody with a word or song If I can help somebody as I travel along than my living will not be in vain. Oh my living will not be in vain. Yes my living will not be in vain If I can help somebody as I travel along than my living will not be in vain." -snip- Since I was curious about whether I had remembered the song correctly, I decided to see whether I could find the song on the Internet. So I went to google and put in the key words "If I can help somebody." But the first link I came up with was a whole 'nother song. At first I was disappointed, but I decided to read the lyrics to the song that was staring me in the face. And those lyrics made me smile. I figure that maybe the Universe knew that at this point in time I needed that smile more than I needed the earnestness of the first song. Maybe these words will make some of you smile too. "Artist/Band: Van Zant Lyrics for Song: Help Somebody Lyrics for Album: Get Right With the Man Well grandaddy was a hillbilly scholar, blue collar of a man... He came from the school of "you don't need nothin' if you can't make it with your own two hands" He was backwoods, backwards, used words like: no sir, yes ma'am, by god, I'll be darned, hell yeah I'm American.. and all the years he walked this earth I swear all he did was work. He said the devil dreams on an idle horse so you listen to me squirt.. Don't get too high on a bottle, and get right with a man. Fight your fights, find your grace and all the things you two can't change, and help somebody if you can Now Granny said sonny stick to your gun if you believe in something no matter what cause it's better to be hated for who you are Than loved for someone you're not. She was 5 feet of concrete New York born and raised on a slick city street. She'll stare you down, stand her ground, still kickin' and screamin' at 93 I remember how frail she looked in that hospital bed taking her last few breaths of life and smiling as she said Don't get too high on a bottle, just a little syrup now and then, fight your fights, find your grace, and all the things you two can't change and help somebody if you can, and get right with a man I never let a cowboy make the coffee yeah thats what Granny always said to my Grandad and he'd say never tell a joke that ain't that funny more than once and if you wanna hear God laugh, tell Him your plans Don't get too high on a bottle, get right with a man, son. fight your fights, find your grace, and all the things you two can't change and help somebody if you can and get right with a man and get right with a man [Thanks to imarulethaworld@sbcglobal.net for lyrics]" Source: http://www.cowboylyrics.com/lyrics/van-zant/help-somebody-15632.html |
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12 Dec 05 - 10:41 AM (#1625635) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Azizi Me liking cowboy lyrics?!?! Ain't that country and western music??!!! Thanks "Mudcat" and all you 'Catters too. Lord knows, my music tastes have expanded. And it's all because of you. |
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12 Dec 05 - 11:11 AM (#1625657) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: LilyFestre Azizi, I really like that song...and yes indeed, it IS a country song. I like VanZant to begin with and these lyrics, well...how can you not like them? They paint a picture for me...especially about Granddad and Granny. One of my favorite lines...If you want to hear God laugh, tell him your plans. Love it. Oh heck..I love the whole damn song. :) Michelle |
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15 Dec 05 - 10:28 PM (#1628470) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Azizi I just finished reading an article in an astrology magazine on Chiron, the Greek centaur demi-god who is associated with healing, with skills in battle, as well as with philosphopy & music. That article reminded me of this thread's discussion and I'd like to share some excerpts from it with those who may be interested. "Most notably Chiron related to woundedness. Known as a great healer, he mentored Aesculapius, the semi-mythical father of Greek medicine, and his name comes down to us through chiropractice, chiropody, chirography, chiromancy, and chirugie {the French word for surgery}. But in his healing, we are told, he used herbs and wholistic methids, and it seems that Chiron, wounded in the foot as he was and therefore walking with a limp, symbolizes, among other factors, a search for the balance that heals. Thus his connection with the wounded healer archetype. Further, through his connection to a madala of skills that one offers to the world, Chiron suggests that we heal ourselves when we make use of the mandala of abilities within us, when we engage in a search for inner balance. But the process begins when we acknowledge our wounds... The years around Chiron's discovery saw an increased emphasis not on disease per se, but on what we might call the environmental and wholistic issues related to disease. We see this environmental quality when we realize that disease often arises from environmental factors-not necessarily germs or microbes, naturally occurring or otherwise, but the larger structure of a person's life, a structure that promotes or generates the imbalance that leads to disease. We see the wholistic nature when we realize that the deepest cures come not from simply getting rid of the symptomology, but from looking into and making changes in the larger pattern. Thus, Chiron's cures can result from our attempts to re-balance ourselves, to bring our lives into harmony, coordinating body and mind, livelihood, and creative enterprise, work and play, participation, and solitude. Chiropractors can accomplish the first, we can accomplish the second if we analyze our lives closely. And of course, many chiropractors will tell us that misalignment of the spine often results from tension, from habitual ways of holding ourselves, ways that arise, in turn, from larger life-situations, from ways of approaching these situations, ways of holding ourselves within them. Unconscious body-armoring, it seems... We can heal by healing the structure...We may fear {Saturn} getting sick {Chiron} or we can heal ourselves {Chiron} by looking directly at fear {Saturn} and having the insight {Uranus} to realise that we shouldn't take fear as solid: that a person fears something doesn't mean that there's something out there to fear. We can see that fear constitutes an approach {a limiting one} not an accurate description of the world"... -snip- Source: Tim Lyons "Chiron, Saturn, and Your Birth Planets" {an article that is part of a monthly series called "Astrology for The New Age" in HOROSCOPE GUIDE, February 2006, pp 88-92 Note: I haven't had any experience with chiropractors and am not promoting the benefit of chiropractice. I am sharing these excerpts because it seems to me that it is important to consider the reasons for a person's [psychological] dis-ease and not just treat the physical or emotional symptoms of that dis-ease... Sorry, I was unable to find an online version of this article or this magazine. |
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01 Jan 06 - 07:03 AM (#1638672) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST,I'd Rather Not Say Well, the New Year is starting off well enough. I continue to make progress. Without the moral support of members of the Mudcat, it might have been quite a different outcome. Thanks again. |
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01 Jan 06 - 10:38 AM (#1638758) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Flash Company I am pleased to see that 'I'd rather not say' is feeling the signs of recovery. Hope that a New Year gives you a new start. I have been keeping out of this one, because it was painfully close to home. A dear friend and neighbour has just been through 10 months of hell because a medic prescribed steroids for a Rheumatic condition without checking her medical history. It put her back 15 years! Happily, her husband tells us this am that the signs of recovery are showing there too. Maybe a New Year is a good thing. I have nothing but admiration for all the people who have offered such positive support on this site, Bless you all! FC |
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01 Jan 06 - 07:10 PM (#1639071) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Peace Good news. Happy New Year to you, IRNS. |
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01 Jan 06 - 08:27 PM (#1639147) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Janie Really glad to hear it, IRNS! Janie |
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01 Jan 06 - 10:38 PM (#1639250) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Once Famous Glad to hear it, IRNS. A good hot dog sandwich will do wonders, won't it? |
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02 Jan 06 - 05:37 PM (#1639892) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: robomatic Stay In The Game. "Otherwise, what've ya got to talk about in the locker room?" from Harold and Maude |
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29 Jan 08 - 02:23 PM (#2248026) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST,IRNS I am taking my meds, using my mood lights, and trying to get a good night's sleep. But I still would rather not wake up tomorrow. |
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29 Jan 08 - 02:38 PM (#2248047) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Wesley S Has your general condition improved? |
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29 Jan 08 - 02:45 PM (#2248052) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Megan L My dear perhaps I was luckier than most people when those feelings struck in that i could trace the chain of events which led to the deep anxiety. I was even luckier in that i had a doctor who was willing to work with me as i tried to knock bricks out of the wall. I know what i did wont help everyone but if there is a chance i will share. I kept a book in which I set myself goals, to many people they may seem silly, things like not biting my nails for a week or getting up before 11 am and having a shower. But at a time when I felt worthless being able to write in my book that I had set a goal and achied it helped me see myself as a person. The next thing i did was to activly look for something good and positive each day and write it down. Somedays those efforts were pretty weak "Saw a crocus this morning" but gradually I managed to retrain my mind to look for the up rather than the down. Tiny steps sometimes like a waltz they went backwards as well as forwards but the ned result was moving on till one day the light at the end of the tunnel wasnt a train comming but beautiful sunshine. All the best Dauvitts Meg |
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29 Jan 08 - 02:49 PM (#2248054) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: autolycus If you wish to join in an ongoing conversation among people struggling with depression, who function rather like a mutual support group, you could do worse than try http://talk.guardian.co.uk, then, in the left-hand column, click on The Haven, and click, in the resulting middle column, on Overcoming Depression. You can read what they've said without sining on, if I remember. (LOL, not 'sining', 'signing'.) Ivor |
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29 Jan 08 - 03:32 PM (#2248096) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: katlaughing Megan, good advice. When I was waiting for heart surgery and not able to do much, I'd call my girlfriend and we'd go over my day. She's say, "What did you do today? I'd say, "Nothing, really." Then she'd start asking questions and we'd both laugh because I'd start telling her the little tiny baby steps I'd taken that day...fed the dog, washed my hair all by myself, made a list, saw a robin...bunches of really simple things I didn't think were important enough to note. She talked me into writing them down, each day, and I saw that I really wasn't worthless and non-functioning, so I could let go of the guilt I was feeling over my family having to do so much for me. IRNS, thanks for the update. May things improve for you. |
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29 Jan 08 - 06:22 PM (#2248214) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST,New to this... I've always thought that there is a real, qualitative difference between clinical depression and feeling bad for a good reason. My sister has dealt with bipolar disorder for her whole life; for years, she was diagnosed with "depression" and never had successful results from treatment until the diagnosis was modified to "bipolar," since which time she has been doing better thanks to more appropriate meds, etc. One of our aunts, long dead, suffered from mental illness, likely the same or a similar condition although not diagnosed as such back in the 1940s and 50s. She died of pneumonia in a state mental hospital shortly after undergoing electroshock therapy.. I'm providing this background to indicate that I have plenty of sympathy for unexplained bouts of depression, even though I can state with some confidence that I am not subject to that kind of trouble myself. My daughter has been epileptic since childhood and now, at age thirty, has been an out-of-control opiate addict for more than ten years. (Pills, not needles ~ which has made the problem much less evident for quite a while.) She is also very likely to have inherited the family propensity for bipolar disorder and/or clinical depression, although by this time, it may be hard to separate her drug-induced problems from other aspects of her sorry condition. Her life has become especially miserable over the past year; her no-good boyfriend and partner in addiction is in jail, and their two daughters, our only grandchildren, have been taken away by the state and placed with a foster family for permanent adoption. On top of everything else, my dear wife is falling into a state of dementia at the relatively early age of 54. While her condition is organic and physical, not strictly psychological, and is probably inherited as well, it is hard to believe that the emotional trauma of losing our grandbabies did not contribute to her misery and hasten the onset of the terminal neurological condition that has gripped her. She began seeing a therapist several years ago, mainly due to the problems and heartache involved in her relationship with our wayward daughter. Now that she can no longer drive, and also is losing her ability to speak clearly, I've been attending the therapy sessions with her and "her" therapist has become "our" therapist. As you might imagine, I'm not feeling too good myself, either, these days. I have an appointment with a full-fledged psycholanalyst fairly soon, scheduled mainly as a way to have some kind of anti-depressant medication prescribed. (Our regular therapist is not qualifed to write scrips, she's just a BCSW.) I don't deny that I'm miserable, and I certainly hope that medication will make it easier for me to get up in the morning, get to work, and to concentrate on work instead of frittering away my time websurfing (and, specifically, Mudcatting). But I truly believe that my problem is NOT the same as the kind of irrational depression that I've seen others suffer; I'm miserable for a reason ~ several reasons in fact ~ that will not be going away anytime soon. Is there really any point, any constructive prospect, to achieving a "happier" state through medication when the underlying causes of my unhappiness continue to exist? |
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29 Jan 08 - 07:13 PM (#2248245) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Donuel I was surprised at the large number of TV and movie personalities who admitted having had clinical depression. There was no one stereotype personality, Some had a core personality that was typically gregarious and some were typically morose, |
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30 Jan 08 - 01:03 AM (#2248391) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Janie Clinical depression (Or Major Depressive Depressive Disorder) simply means that you are experiencing a sufficient number of a list of signs and symptoms to add up to meeting technical diagnostic criteria. It says nothing about the origins of the clinical depression. There is a difference between being stressed and unhappy and being clinically depressed. However, stress and distress and the unhappiness involved can trigger a clinical depression. Once the clinical depression sets in, it can become very difficult to call upon the strengths and coping skills most people usually have that help us manage the rough times. It is like the depression holds us hostage. Things that never used to bother us, bother us a lot. Little problems begin to be perceived as big problems. Big problems become huge monolithic monsters that seem unsolvable or impossible to find a means or the inner strength with which to cope. The depression robs us of the energy we need to find solutions or to find ways of coping. Depression turns pain into misery. Burdens we have always managed to bear, become unbearable. Encounter enough pain and sadness over so many things, events, people and circumstances over which we have no control, and eventually any of us can become overwhelmed and experience a clinical depression. R New at this, you have experiences so much grief already. And now, the actual and anticipated slow loss of your wife as the person you have known. Always difficult, but even more so if it has been that relationship that has been the rock that has sustained the two of you through the years of coping with your daughter's problems. I'm glad you are going to see a psychiatrist to explore the idea of an antidepressant medication. And I am glad to hear you are working with a therapist. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Just because some may find it helpful, the more common signs and symptoms of clinical depression in adults include several of the following signs and symptoms, most of which occur everyday, or nearly everyday for a period of two weeks or longer. If you experience 4 or more of them you may want to consider talking with someone for further evaluation, recommendations or treatment. 1. Changes in sleep patterns. a. Insomnia, which might include difficulty falling asleep, difficulty staying asleep and trouble falling back to sleep when you awake in the middle of the night, very early morning awakening, or some combination of the three. b. Some people experience hypersomnia, and will sleep 10, 12 or 14 hours if they can. 2. Appetite changes that result in rapid significant weight loss or weight gain in a short amount of time. i.e. losing 10 lbs. or more in a two month period without trying to diet. 3. Depressed mood. May be sad. Or may be simply 'blah.' Feeling numb or bored. 4. Increased irritability. Loss of interest in activities that normally you find interesting. Not enjoying or finding pleasure in activities you normally enjoy. 5. Feelings of hopelessness or helplessness. Decreased sense of self-worth. Irrational or excessive guilt. 6. Increased tearfulness, or increase feeling of wanting to cry. 7. Decreased concentration. 8. Increased or excessive rumination or worry about the past, current problems, the future, perceived slights, etc. 9. Loss of energy. Fatique. Decreased motivation. Not attending to activities of daily living to the degree that you usually do. (housekeeping, paying bills, showering, attending to your appearance.) Atypical procrastination. Taking care of 'business', but really having to push yourself to do so more than is typical for you. 10. Passive or active suicidal or homicidal thoughts, plan or intent. (Please tell some one, be it a friend, loved one, or a professional if you are having these kinds of thoughts.) |
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30 Jan 08 - 01:12 AM (#2248393) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Janie INRS, Sorry to hear the dark days are back. Looking at the dates (January 06, January 08) is it possible that there is either a seasonal component to your depression, or possibly an anniversary reaction of some kind? Holding you and 'New at this' in my thoughts. Kat and Megan are describing the use of cognitive techniques and exercises that have proven useful to many people who deal with depression. Janie |
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30 Jan 08 - 01:56 AM (#2248398) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: autolycus Donuel, why are you surprised? Ivor |
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31 Aug 09 - 01:10 PM (#2713020) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: olddude My Gosh, doc changed some pain meds. Wow, the depression and Anxiety it caused was amazing. So unlike me, the loss of sleep, helpless feeling. A sadness that goes right to your bones. Amazing from a scientific side. One of the worst things I have ever experienced in my life and boy I sure had a number of bad things happen. Had a run in with a terrible nasty client and it put me in a tailspin where I would normally just dust it off knowing the personality and the source since he does it to everyone. Doc fixed it, like putting ice on a burn ... My heart goes out completely for people who suffer with this. Terrible is not the word I would use for it does not describe it fully. Wow did that suck ... Thank you for this thread, I thought it was just me. |
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31 Aug 09 - 01:22 PM (#2713033) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: olddude I always thought with pain meds there were a list of reactions. I never had any issue with them before. This one, depression and anxiety. Anyone taking pain meds watch for it. I at least had the sense to know something was wrong before it really caught me. It took a couple of weeks to really sneak up on me. Just watch if they give you any pain medication. They all have it on the label but who reads that stuff. |
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31 Aug 09 - 03:22 PM (#2713136) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Stringsinger "Overcoming Depression" A cognitive therapy approach. by Mark Gilson,Arthur Freeman, M. Jane Yates, Sharon Morgillo Freeman Publisher: Oxford University Press, USA Pub. Date: April 2009 ISBN-13: 9780195300000 It's available through Barnes and Noble. It works! Hot off the press! |
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31 Aug 09 - 09:04 PM (#2713365) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Joe_F Deficient contact with reality is called mania. Excessive contact with reality is called depression. |
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01 Sep 09 - 10:01 AM (#2713661) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Bryn Pugh Dear IRNS, I, too, have been there. I don't think that anyone who hasn't has any understanding of the emotional pain. Delighted to hear that you are on the mend. I was given ECT, and it worked. The meds I was on - I'm in the UK - just weren't doing the business. Please don't think I am suggesting this for you - I am a lawter, not a medic. But thinking of you, and empathising with you, and should you wish to PM me I'll be here. I wish you Joy, Health, Love and Peace. |
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03 Sep 09 - 06:53 PM (#2715789) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: katlaughing Nice to reread the good advice given in this old thread. |
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03 Sep 09 - 08:30 PM (#2715842) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST,hg Perhaps pain meds or more likely chronic pain, suppress neurogenesis. The latest thinking on anti-depressants is that they allow the brain to create new neurons. The implication is that stress and other mitigating factors suppress neurogensis and lead to depression. Sapolsky argues against this but it is a very convincing bit of neuroscience. |
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03 Sep 09 - 10:33 PM (#2715896) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Janie Look for a pm, hg. You are more on top of the research than am I and I'd like to read more. When starting any medication, if one experiences an abrupt change in mood, mental capacity or physiological phenomena that the medication is not intended to address, call your doctor, even if the change you experience is not on the list of side effects or adverse reactions that comes with the prescription. You may be the "one in a million" that did not turn up in the "rare" category of side effects and adverse reactions reported in pre or post release trials of the medication. |
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03 Sep 09 - 11:04 PM (#2715911) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST,hg Janie, I've recently discovered the writing of Jonah Lehrer who seems very good at making neuroscience research easy for a non-neuro scientist to understand. http://scienceblogs.com/cortex/index.php?page=2 I'm only just discovering this research through Jonah Lehrer so I would say I am not really very up on it. But it does make a great deal of sense such as explaining why it take several weeks for SSRI's to work when they enter your bloodstream immediately after you take them and should work sooner....the brain begins to build new neurons. I think that the practice of cognitive-behavioral techniques builds new neurons as well, don't you think? |
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12 Aug 11 - 03:30 PM (#3206774) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST,IRNS I need some hope. Does anyone have any to spare? Thanks. |
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12 Aug 11 - 03:41 PM (#3206783) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Amos Sure, lots of it!! Help yourself. You get to make tomorrow. Aroint to all despond, bansih and exile the voices of depression, and throw yourself into gear. |
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12 Aug 11 - 03:48 PM (#3206788) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST,Eliza There is definitely hope out there for you, IRNS. My niece has suffered similar things to yourself. After years of problems (including suicide attempts, and she's only twenty) she's got correct medication and professional support, and is feeling marvellous. She now has a steady boyfriend, and is on an even keel. She would have in the past said there was no hope, life wasn't worth it etc. So you too could be back on top soon. Please keep holding on to hope. You are in my thoughts. Eliza |
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12 Aug 11 - 03:51 PM (#3206791) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Clontarf83 Wish I had access to this kind of help in my twenties. |
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23 Apr 12 - 06:25 AM (#3342031) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST,I'd Rather Not Say First of all, I would like to say that the "IRNS" who has recently posted, is NOT me. She or he has hijacked my handle. (Some of this "guest" stuff, is over the line of ridiculous!) So, an update for ME. Work has stabilized. I am taking what I think are pretty good meds. I haven't had formal therapy. But I have done some deep introspection and talking with caring friends, and I have made changes in my life that are positive. I believe in therapy as a process. But I am also afraid of it. I don't like revealing some of my deepest secrets or crying in front of a detached stranger. I have made very big progress on dealing with extreme clutter. And I expect to be able to happily have company over in the near future without being horribly embarrassed. And...I am dating! However, that has introduced some new issues. When in the relationship should I tell her that I live with depression? When should I tell her about being a clutterholic? Should I avoid someone who also has depression? Or can it work since we both understand and can lift each other up? Or should I look for someone who is more positive and appreciates me for me and can help lift me up without being brought down? Thanks for all the caring and help from my Mudcat sisters and brothers. Aside from a few miscreants who hang out here as nasty trolls, this is a wonderful place. IRNS |
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23 Apr 12 - 08:41 AM (#3342054) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: SINSULL I sympathize with your feelings about therapy. I am a painfully private person and found the process similar to picking at scabs. You have to take off the scab to release the infection underneath. It is an ugly nasty business but you come out of it infection free and capable of dealing with any further outbreaks on your own. I found therapy very difficult but worth every minute of discomfort. There are too many guests posting at Mudcat as "Guest,I'd Rather Not Say." The one who posted here just now should choose a new Guest name if you're not going to post as your registered self. Someone else has been using this guest name more consistently than you. And keep track of yourself - you DID post that last message, despite your protest to the contrary. --mudelf |
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23 Apr 12 - 11:18 AM (#3342099) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST,IRNS Dear Mudelf, I don't know where you got your info from. THIS "IRNS" started the Depression and Anxiety thread. But I have NOT posted to the Nugent thread under any name. At any rate, I will not use this name again. |
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23 Apr 12 - 12:15 PM (#3342132) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: wysiwyg It's a great topic tho, and the best place I think I can make an observation or two. First, neither depression nor anxiety need be looked at merely from within the medical model, and no I am not about to recommend the Christian angle but a quite-secular one despite the initials in their URL: www.rc.org. In this model, time and listening attention are exchanged between people who come to know and trust one another well; it has clear guidelines; the person in the client role is always in charge of what is worked upon. It is basically the application of the natural process you can see any young person engage in-- when well-meaning adults do not try to stop them from using it. Second, I have been really concerned to see the encouragement, here, of way-too-busy activity when it is likely that either anxiety or mania or hyperactivity are actually at work. Third, a strong value at Mudcat always has been on taking the best and leaving the rest. It would be great to see THAT applied more often! :~) ~Susan |
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23 Apr 12 - 08:03 PM (#3342339) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Bobert The worst part about anxiety episodes that lead to and/or accompany depression is that it is real... The best part is that in doing a few things differently, it will pass... Life is a series of ups 'n downs... I suffered from anxiety and depression at the end of my social work career... Part was from burn out... Part from other stuff... Part unknown... I checked into a mental health facility... Yeah, kinda strange for a social worker who dealt with mental health clients... Something not all that fair... No matter... It took a number of twists and turns to find the correct treatment and, for me, that was swimming??? Weird... As a teenager I loved to just swim... Mile, 2 miles... Just swim and so I did... It's a different puzzle for everyone but there is a solution set... Anxiety disorders are beatable... Anxiety disorders do pass... B~ |
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05 Jul 12 - 11:27 PM (#3372675) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: katlaughing I got this in an email as a tagline for the sender and thought it worth sharing (no attribution): "Depression is not a sign of weakness. It is a sign that you have been strong for too long." |
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06 Jul 12 - 05:32 PM (#3372987) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Mrrzy Also, get out into the sun, no matter how hot it is, get some sunshine every day. good luck. Been there, love my meds. PM me if you want, I won't tell. |
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06 Jul 12 - 05:35 PM (#3372992) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Stringsinger One of the keys to depression and anxiety is the loading of perfection on ourselves. People who are depressed or anxious tend to be obsessive in their quest for perfection and beat themselves up when they don't achieve this unattainable goal. One of the best therapies for depression and anxiety is Cognitive Therapy. It works if you stay with it. Been there. The other valuable advice here is to choose an exercise program but don't beat yourself up if you don't do it every day. This condition is treatable more today than it has ever been. |
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07 Jul 12 - 04:52 PM (#3373366) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity "BS: Happy Independence Day, America!! BS: Depression and Anxiety" GfS |
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07 Jul 12 - 06:35 PM (#3373399) Subject: RE: BS: Depression and Anxiety From: Janie hg, just coming back to this thread and seeing your post of 03 Sep 09. I agree. |