BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain

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BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain

19 Dec 05 - 07:35 AM (#1630432)
Subject: BS: Humpback Mountain
From: GUEST,Sissy

Avoid this disgusting piece of trash about two cowboys in love.

22 Dec 05 - 09:11 PM (#1633429)
Subject: BS: Gay Western
From: Once Famous

There is this new gay western called Brokeback Mountain. It has received some very good reviews. I will not see this movie though, but it might be the first successful western for women. No shootouts, no attacking Indians, no wagon trains, no bad-ass cowboys starting fights in saloons. Just two sensitive cowboys.

I think the two guys in this movie were seen grimacing when they were sitting on their horses.

22 Dec 05 - 09:17 PM (#1633434)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western
From: pdq

Some gay guys are really into leather.

22 Dec 05 - 09:27 PM (#1633447)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western
From: John O'L

Ah yes, a pair of chaps and a saddle-horn, who could ask for more?

22 Dec 05 - 09:39 PM (#1633453)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western
From: Little Hawk

I can't think of any compelling reason why I would want to see this movie. Of course, I could say that about almost all of them lately...

22 Dec 05 - 10:42 PM (#1633491)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western
From: mack/misophist

Think about it, Martin. If it's set in the 1800's - the main cowboy era - there were damn few women around in most places; probably none out on the range. Gay cowboys are an inevitability.

23 Dec 05 - 01:58 AM (#1633558)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western
From: Dave Hanson

Here's a line from an old traditional song, " I've been riding on the range and my hurdies getting sore "

eric

23 Dec 05 - 02:49 AM (#1633569)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western
From: GUEST

I think martin is envying the cowboys....

23 Dec 05 - 03:14 AM (#1633576)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western
From: Big Al Whittle

I liked Oklahoma.

The guys in that chorus line weren't exactly the testoterone smelling shit kickers that Clint Eastwood shoots every 90 seconds.

Allow things their place, Martin. Go and see the film. you are lucky to live in a city where there is some diversity. nothing but Harry Potter and kids stuff on our local flicks.

23 Dec 05 - 03:39 AM (#1633584)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western
From: GUEST

Bad-ass cowboys???

23 Dec 05 - 04:34 AM (#1633605)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western
From: Joe Offer

There's some pretty big names involved in the story and the script - Annie Proulx and Larry McMurtry. I'd expect it to be controversial, but I'll bet it's a good flick. Here's the blurb from allmovie.com:

23 Dec 05 - 05:18 AM (#1633629)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Big Al Whittle

McMurtry - it'll be good. I read his book about Billy the Kid.

23 Dec 05 - 08:48 AM (#1633728)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: MarkS

Yawn
Why not a movie about gay rocket scientists or dentists or molecular biologists?
If the only thing this movie has to differentiate it from all the rest of the holiday season offerings is the gay angle, you can be pretty sure that by this time next year nobody will remember it.

23 Dec 05 - 08:53 AM (#1633735)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: katlaughing

Thanks, Joe, for posting that.

We used to live in Wyoming, as some of you may know and my dad grew up on a cattle ranch in Colorado. In Wyoming, where the film takes place, many of our friends were gay. We used to go to dances with them and let me tell you, one and all, there was nothing of the sterotype among them. We had toolpushers from the oilfields, long-haul truck drivers, cowboys, businessmen, ranch-owners, artists, medical workers, professors, etc. Some of them were hard-drinking, hard-fighting, which caused the same kind of problems they can cause among any group of people, and a few no one would want to tussle with because they could have kicked anyone into the next county without any effort.

I have heard some references, to this movie, say the "cowboys" herd sheep. If you herd sheep, you are a sheepherder, NOT a cowboy, but I will wait to see it, to judge that for myself. Good thing, that, withholding judgement 'til one sees for oneself...

kat

23 Dec 05 - 09:06 AM (#1633745)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: katlaughing

It leads the Golden Globe nomination with seven in all. Also, it won the New York Film Critics Circle's best picture, best director and best actor (Ledger) awards. With all of that, besides the ground-breaking subject, I don't think it will be forgotten, soon.

23 Dec 05 - 09:14 AM (#1633746)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: MMario

Out on another forum I read they are discussing this - and with no mention of sexual orientation or even gender. Seems to be pretty popular movie.

23 Dec 05 - 10:12 AM (#1633788)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: GUEST,Art Thieme

I am truly looking forward to this film. I've heard that the acting is supreme. And when it is released on DVD, I will probably want to own it so I can re-watch the exceptional scenic locations and grand photography that I've heard are a huge part of it. This is real, folks. For that reason, I will accept and enjoy it.

Art

23 Dec 05 - 11:07 AM (#1633828)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Amos

It's very real; a number of veteran cowhands from those ranges have gone on record as saying it reflects their own struggles vivdly.

A

23 Dec 05 - 01:09 PM (#1633919)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Once Famous

Where does it say that, Amos? What number of veteran cowhands? Did you get that from the New York Times, also?

23 Dec 05 - 01:24 PM (#1633932)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: TheBigPinkLad

shepherd

23 Dec 05 - 01:27 PM (#1633935)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: freda underhill

And think not you can
Direct the course of love,
For love,
If it finds you worthy,
Directs your course.
~ by Gibran Kahlil Gibran ~

23 Dec 05 - 02:20 PM (#1633989)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: katlaughing

BPL, maybe in parts other than the American West. Out here they are sheepherders.:-) My great-grandpa and grandpa both were in some battles between the cattlemen and sheepherders. Interestingly, though, it was the large conglomerate sheep companies with which they AND local sheepmen (so-called if they owned a ranch of their own) fought. I have a front-page editorial of my grandfather's which points out how the local "sheepmen" and cattlemen were united against the "big business" interests of Utah sheep companies.

What do real cowboys think? To find the answer, "Good Morning America Weekend Edition" traveled to the National Finals Rodeo in Las Vegas.

Seven-time world champion cowboy Ty Murray, who is straight, actually welcomes the movie.

"I think it's something that's now just being more understood," Murray said. "Hopefully, this movie helps people further understand it."

But gay cowboys Robert Salcedo and Brian Helander aren't so sure and worry about an increase in homophobia.

Here's more of what REAL, Wyoming cowboys have to say about the movie:

By GUY TREBAY
Published: December 18, 2005

Lusk, Wyo.
Skip to next paragraph
David J. Swift for The New York Times

Ben Clark says "Growing up, I never even dreamed that a real cowboy would be gay."

THERE are missile silos tucked throughout the hills around the high plains here, a town 140 miles north of Cheyenne with more sheep than people, with one stop light, no bowling alley or movie theater and a year-round population just above 1,000. Although the silos, with their sinister nuclear payloads, are well concealed, most locals know where to find them. Wyoming's wide-open spaces are like that, with space enough to conceal wide-open secrets, and good reasons to do so.

Among the secrets is the existence of gay cowboys, a term that might have struck some as an oxymoron before Ang Lee's new film, "Brokeback Mountain," which opened earlier this month to sold-out houses in New York and Los Angeles, seven Golden Globe nominations and almost universally rave reviews. By the standards of the rhapsodically spare film and the bleak Annie Proulx story on which it is based, gay cowboys are so anomalous as to be characters out of myth.

Yet there has always lurked a suspicion that the fastidious Eastern dude of Owen Wister's "The Virginian" harbored stronger than proper feelings for his rough Western compadres, and that the Red River crowd may have gotten up to more than yarning by the campfire whenever Joanne Dru was not around. The light Ang Lee allows into the bunkhouse closet may shock those who like their Marlboro Men straight.

But to gay men trying to forge lives in a world where the shape of masculinity is narrow, and where the "liberated" antics of the homosexual minstrels so often depicted on television can seem far off, the emotional privation and brutal violence of "Brokeback Mountain" seems like documentary.

"That could have been my life," Derrick Glover said one bitter cold afternoon last week, referring to the film, which he had seen at a special screening a week before in Jackson, Wyo. A 33-year-old rancher, Mr. Glover comes from a family that has worked the land around Lusk for generations. His father still runs 300 head of cattle.

Seated at a table in the smoky Outpost Cafe alongside Highway 85, Mr. Glover laid out the story of a typical ranch-country boyhood: herding, branding, culling and haying, horses hobbled on picket lines and calves pulled forcibly from their mother's bodies during spring calving. Every summer Mr. Glover sets out with his brother in a panel truck carrying their two quarter horses, to compete in calf and steer roping competitions. "I never had any intention of leaving the cowboy lifestyle," Mr. Glover said. "Ranching is who I am."

Yet next month Mr. Glover will quit Lusk and that part of himself in order to move to the bright lights of Lander, Wyo. (population 6,864). "I don't really want to do it," Mr. Glover said. Yet he has to, he explained, if he ever wants to live his life openly. Like Jack Twist, the rodeo-loving character portrayed by Jake Gyllenhaal in the movie, Derrick Glover is gay.

"They always define it as coming out of the closet, but I don't consider myself to be out of the closet," Mr. Glover explained. There is a reason for that, he said. "Where I live, you can't really go out and be yourself. You couldn't go out together, two guys, as a couple and ever be accepted. It wasn't accepted in the past, it's still not, and I don't think it ever will be." That he and some of the others interviewed for this article were willing to be named and photographed was not without social and even physical risk.

Starkest among the dimensions of "Brokeback Mountain" is not the love story billboarded as revolutionary, or the kisses that are far less erotically charged than the one exchanged by Peter Finch and Murray Head in John Schlesinger's "Sunday Bloody Sunday," back in 1971.

What is most emotionally corrosive about "Brokeback Mountain," some say, is the film's placid portrayal of the violence that has always been a part of gay experience, whether a gay man's brutal murder recalled in flashback from the boyhood of Ennis del Mar, the conflicted cowboy portrayed by Heath Ledger, or the equally grotesque killing that is the film's denouement. Just as chilling, perhaps, is the emotional wreckage left littering the majestic landscape, hulks of lives ruptured by intolerance and misunderstanding left rusting at the end of dirt roads.

rest of the article may be accessed on this page.

24 Dec 05 - 01:14 PM (#1634606)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Stilly River Sage

A gay friend in New York City wrote to say he thought the movie was marvelous, and he and a friend sat and discussed it for hours afterward. Makes easy my selection of a good holiday gift for him next year, assuming it comes out as DVD sometime in 2006.

The bigoted remarks regarding the film's subject matter are not unexpected, but as usual, are disappointing.

SRS

24 Dec 05 - 02:32 PM (#1634652)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Big Al Whittle

sounds a bit miserable.

I think I'll stick with Oklahoma. I prefer my gay cowboys dancing to Everything's up to date in Kansas City.

They gone about as far as they can go......!

24 Dec 05 - 08:31 PM (#1634867)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: GUEST,Charlie Baum, sans cookie since he's travell

"Brokeback Mountain" is one of the best films I've seen in a long time! It was sold out for most of its performances in my area, and I bought tickets for an early Sunday afternoon matinee on Saturday night, when we got to the theatre and couldn't get in. Good thing I bought the tickets in advance, because even the Sunday morning showings were sold out.

The main protagonists are indeed sheepherders, not cowboys, and we can have a nuanced discussion about whether they truly qualify as "gay" once you've seen the movie. The "gay cowboy" moniker probably derives from the South Park line a couple of years ago where one of the South Park kids ask if independent films are all about "gay cowboys eating pudding." BTW, there's no pudding in Brokeback Mountain either.

It's based on a great short story by Annie Proulx. In very economical writing, the story says as much by what it DOESN'T say as by what it does.

The film explores the complexity of forbidden relationships, In an earlier time, ballads were written about similar subjects--ballads like "Mill o' Tifty's Annie" or "Annachie Gordon." Those old Scottish ballads dealt with love thwarted because of social class or economically required marriages. In today's society, such reasons for prohibiting relationship are quaintly outdated, and even prohibitions due to ethnic or racial differences seem passe. The issue of sexual orientation is the frontier of relationship prohibition that resonates in today's society, so that's where this modern tragic ballad occurs. Just as Mill o' Tifty's Annie's brother breaks her back for liking Andrew Lammie, so the couple in Brokeback Mountain needs to worry constantly about the possibility of being gay-bashed to death. As the character Ennis DelMar observes: "This thing gets hold of us at the wrong time and wrong place and we're dead." One year after Annie Proulx's story was published in the New Yorker, Matthew Shephard was beaten to death and left crucified on a ranch fence about 30 miles from Ms. Proulx's home. She was part of the jury pool called for his murder, though she did not actually serve.

Heath Ledger's performance is the best acting I've seen, perhaps, since Meryl Streep in "Sophie's Choice." He manages to convey the full complexity of a very repressed character with understatements and silences.

A must-see, unless you're too much of a homophobic sissy to deal with it.

--Charlie Baum

24 Dec 05 - 08:45 PM (#1634873)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Once Famous

"homophobic sissy"

That's a complete oxymoron. I wouldn't waste my money on a movie about cowboy fags who ike to buttfuck each other.

There are plenty other good movies worth seeing than this. I don't care if a few gays say that's the way it was. I have no reason to believe them in their on-going pursiuit to shove their lifestyle down everyone's throat.

24 Dec 05 - 08:53 PM (#1634876)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: GUEST

Martin--

SPOILER AHEAD--

The thing about Brokeback Mountain is that the characters NEVER adopt the gay lifetyle. They fight against their attractions to each other, marry and have children. The rest of society in the movie disapproves of their relationship, and one of the main characters is in fact beaten to death with a tire iron at the end of the story for being "a fag," as you put it--an ending that will surely warm the cockles of your homophobic heart.

24 Dec 05 - 09:02 PM (#1634882)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Once Famous

I don't want to see anyone killed, oh cowardly guest. There are people who would be driven to that and people who wouldn't be.

Just because I have no use for the fudgepacker lifestyle does not mean I would want to see anyone hurt for it. I just don't find a movie on this subject at all interesting. Why do you? Hits too close to home? People you can relate to personally?

why not go see King Kong? Not sennnnnnnnnnnsitive enough for you?

24 Dec 05 - 09:39 PM (#1634902)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: GUEST

Strange, isn't it, Martin. You can condemn others yet be so incredibly sensitive when bigotry and predjudice hit close to home for you ie someone bashing Jews. Face it, it's the same thing, BIGOTRY. One would think that this is a lesson you would have learned. Try acceptance of others, Martin. It can only make the world a better place.

26 Dec 05 - 12:39 PM (#1634964)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Once Famous

Guest, I'm sure you just accept all others. Killers, rapists, child molesters, probably terrorists, also. What else do you accept in your sennnnnnnnnsitive, cowardly way?

Sorry, I draw the line just differently than you. Actually, I'm not sorry. Accepting a gay lifestyle is not bigoted, it's just not in the best interest of a moral society. Never has been and never will be. Neither are you, probably.

26 Dec 05 - 01:09 PM (#1635004)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Ebbie

Creating conflict, promoting hate and distrust, sneering at everyone who doesn't sign on to one's approach, running rough shod over anyone who does not share one's views, living with the aggressive notion that one can enforce the view that it's my way or no way, and then fixating on someone else's sexual proclivities, known or unknown, that alert others to my own latent fears- sorry, guys, you caught on to my sorry life. I will try to do better.

26 Dec 05 - 01:24 PM (#1635014)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: GUEST,Merde, alors!

Interesting that there are few subjects that can get Martin Gibson quite as upset as homosexuality. I wonder WHY he gets this upset......

26 Dec 05 - 01:33 PM (#1635018)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: GUEST,Mr Masculinity

It's because he cannot conquer the fear of what others may think...if he should fail to meet their stringent expectations regarding his masculinity. He dares not pee sitting down! I had that problem for years, and there wasn't even anyone to see me doing it, but I still didn't dare to. Amazing, isn't it? I finally got over it, but it wasn't easy, let me tell you. The first time I tried it I was in stark terror of what might occur...if anyone found out! If my parents should know! The shame! Or if God would punish me! I sympathize with Martin's dilemma.

He's really quite sensitive.

26 Dec 05 - 03:27 PM (#1635082)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: kendall

I saw the previews of this film and it doesn't interest me. I'm used to seeing real men of the west wearing cotton and leather, not chiffon. Let's face it, chiffon wrinkles.

26 Dec 05 - 03:30 PM (#1635086)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Ebbie

LOL, Kendall.

26 Dec 05 - 05:36 PM (#1635130)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: paddymac

There was an interesting story in the local paper a few days ago about the marketing strategt for this film. In short, the producers elected not to go with a "universal opening" (everywhere simultaneously)in part because of the anticipated controversiality, but also cost, and their view that it is "word of mouth" that will best sell the film. There is presently a goodly bit of Oscar buzz, which may just be another facet of the marketing strategy. There are films that I find repugnant, mostly of the blood-&-guts-all-over-the-place-multiple-murder-variety, but there are apparently enough people who do like them that they keep making them. I guess that';s part of the price we pay for living in what we still think of as a mostly free society.

26 Dec 05 - 05:40 PM (#1635133)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Stilly River Sage

"Real men" have the XY chromosome. After that, it's all a crapshoot.

26 Dec 05 - 10:54 PM (#1635225)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Amos

Well, I saw it; and it has no chiffon in it except for the girls. It is a very realistic piece of work, and has some of the most stunning scenery I've seen since the last time I rode in the Grand Tetons, many years ago. The heros are fierce and as real as two cowboys can be. It certainly breaks up prejudgement of the usual sort. It's not about "gay" cowboys but about real cowboys who fall in love with each other, a distinction that ios important if you can grasp it.

I enjoyed it a lot and am glad I saw it. It has earned its kudos, in my opinion.

A

27 Dec 05 - 12:33 AM (#1635248)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: GUEST,Mr. Smarty Pants

I thought it was a groovy movie. I think I'm going to add a little more western garb to my wardrobe in the new year.

27 Dec 05 - 01:04 AM (#1635263)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Joe Offer

I guess I don't quite know what to think about this discussion. It's obvious that the film is offensive to some people because of its sympathetic treatment of homosexuality - something that is absolutely repulsive to some people. If that's how they feel about it, I guess that it's natural that they should respond.....er, viscerally.

On the other hand, it is a serious film that certainly seems to have significant merit. It covers issues that warrant serious discussion. What I'm wondering is how can people who aren't disgusted by the film have an intelligent discussion of it, when you have other people jumping around and tsk-tsking about "buttfucking."*

One of the Clones deleted the Martin Gibson "mutual buttfuck" post above, and I could see good reason for the deletion. Still, I decided to undelete the post because the deletion broke the flow of the discussion. I have to say, though, that it's hard to say what sort of moderation is appropriate in a situation like this. How do you let people who are offended have their say, and still encourage an intelligent discussion of the film?

-Joe Offer-

*And if people are so offended by the film, one could wonder why they're so offensive themselves in the way they express it.

27 Dec 05 - 07:47 AM (#1635332)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: kendall

As a very wise English woman once said "I don't care what they do, as long as they don't do it in the street and frighten the horses."

27 Dec 05 - 08:40 AM (#1635352)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: GUEST

I can't believe you're still letting that psychopath play his mind games here, Joe Offer. And these folkies believe Martin Gibson is the person he has made up. Sad.

27 Dec 05 - 09:08 AM (#1635365)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: GUEST

After reading this thread, one could think that 4 different movies are being discussed.

27 Dec 05 - 09:33 AM (#1635376)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Amos

Well, the fact is that the buttfucking plays a much larger part in Martin's obsessions than it does in the actual movie.

A

27 Dec 05 - 10:21 AM (#1635401)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: GUEST,A

That was not one of things that stuck with me in coming to my conclusion. Hmnn.

27 Dec 05 - 10:42 AM (#1635417)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Stilly River Sage

Martin "Slam Bam Thankyou Mam" Gibson delights in offending people, primarily through offering up his adolescent view of sex between individuals. He cuts a wide swath and trashes a lot of good conversations in the process. He assumes this offensive stance armed with an apparently incomplete sexual education.

According to many sources regarding homosexual sex versus anal sex (here is one):

Who does it?

Is it safe?

27 Dec 05 - 10:45 AM (#1635422)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Bonnie Shaljean

WHOA. Whatever about the film, read Proulx's beautifully-written story, which is more a tale of lost and thwarted love than about any particular combination of genders. It should enlighten some of the more narrow-minded members of society, but – even if they bother to read it – I suppose it won't. People are too fond of clinging to their prejudices to even WANT any other viewpoint.

27 Dec 05 - 10:49 AM (#1635424)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Once Famous

Joe, you were correct to leave my post in and the other more spineless clone really ought to get his head examined.

"buttfucking" is what it is. It is sodomy between two men or anal intercourse between two men. There now, does that make you so easily offended by language feel better? I'm not offended by language as I am by your lack of offensiviness to ACTIONS. Amos, I'm talking in part to you.

I fully understand that this movie is being critically acclaimed and what it does and what it implies. It is just another part of the gay agenda. I am not saying to ban it or anything like that. Just that the movie's story is not for me, I could give a royal crap about the gay lifestyle and would not encourage anyone to see this piece of gay propaganda. To the howling posters who hide behind the Guest monicker, keep on howling as I do not care. Your way of thinking just has to be challenged to keep things sane for others. Your intolerance of people who think different than you keeps you at the head of class in Hypocracy 101.

27 Dec 05 - 10:50 AM (#1635426)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: katlaughing

If you feed the MG he'll just keep posting vitriol, folks. Shunning is what is needed, complete and utter.

27 Dec 05 - 11:42 AM (#1635452)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: GUEST

Wrong, banning is what is needed. Shunning hasn't gotten rid of him and it has brought the mudcat down. do something about it.

27 Dec 05 - 12:47 PM (#1635468)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: gnu

No way I am going to watch it. Sounds too much like a chick-flick for me. Give me a comedy anyday. Maybe if it was called The Odd Cowboys and Jack and Walter were in it... or called The Trail to Wherever with Bob and Bing. Ah, they don't make em like that anymore. Now, it's Ahhhnold and Tom killing the dirty rotten terrorists, but, in a comical way.

27 Dec 05 - 12:48 PM (#1635469)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: GUEST

I don't Martin from a load of hay - if his posts are disturbing to some, why not skip down to the next one when you see his name?

27 Dec 05 - 12:56 PM (#1635472)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: gnu

GUEST, Date: 27 Dec 05 - 12:48 PM

You must be new here.

27 Dec 05 - 01:54 PM (#1635496)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: GUEST,Mr Masculinity

Martin Gibson - "Wrong, Mr. Maculinity. Plain wrong. I am not angered by it. I have no use for homosexuality because quite frankly, someone as sick as you does.

You can try to justify to me why you yourself has to flaunt your own homosexuality, Mr. Masculinity. If you want to see a movie about two men who want to express themselves physically to each other by mutual buttfuck, be my guest. Just don't tell me that I have to accept that kind of behavior because I don't."

I don't follow you, Martin. I don't have any interest in homosexuality nor do I have much interest in this movie. Almost none, in fact. I don't really care. It's a non-issue to me. I'm just trying to determine why it is such a big issue to you. I'm not interested in promoting homosexual lifestyles, I'm interested in understanding your hypersensitivity and your compulsive need to viciously attack people who are different from yourself in some way. Why are you so afraid of people who aren't like you? Why should they be like you?

I mean, we're all somewhat afraid of people who aren't like us, but you are a really extreme case. Do you think God is pleased and gratified by your continual verbal attacks on people? Do you think He will reward you for screwing up someone else's day? (what would the reward be, one wonders) Do you think it will advance your development as a human being to make other people feel rotten? Why do you do it? What is lacking in your sense of completion?

27 Dec 05 - 02:03 PM (#1635504)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: gnu

GUEST, Date: 27 Dec 05 - 12:48 PM

See?

27 Dec 05 - 02:37 PM (#1635518)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: GUEST,Sissy

The movie would be more acceptable if they were humping the cows instead of each other.

27 Dec 05 - 03:04 PM (#1635531)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Little Hawk

Maybe it's a love story. That's different from a sex story. Love stories can be quite enlightening.

However, I still don't feel much interest in this movie for whatever reason.

27 Dec 05 - 03:33 PM (#1635548)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Amos

I'm not offended by language as I am by your lack of offensiviness to ACTIONS. Amos, I'm talking in part to you

I suppose you mean you are offended by my tolerance toward these "unnatch'l" acts, which have been going on between men since the earliest recorded history of civilization.

Somehow you must have graduated from the ranks of mortal humans to the rank of Judge Over Other People. I congratulate you, although I certainly don't understand the qualifying process you went through to rise to this high station. But you seem to think with great certainty that you may judge the rights and wrongs of actions committed by others in their private lives, just as though they were robbing banks or helping old ladies across the street or perhaps signing up for big insurance policies.

When I was growing up one of the expressions I had to learn was "none of your business".

But I can see you are beyond all that. Congratulations, your honor.

A

27 Dec 05 - 04:30 PM (#1635577)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: kendall

I'm not a biblical scholar, but I have to wonder why homosexual acts between two men are so damning, when the same doesn't hold true for women?
A Jew once told me that it is more about inheritance than about morality.

Also, having known a few homos and Lesbians, I have to wonder why the homophobes always concentrate on the physical aspect of love.
I didn't marry for sex; there is so much more to a relationship than sex. (That is, a healthy relatonship).Opinions please.

27 Dec 05 - 06:01 PM (#1635640)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Big Al Whittle

Martin if you're mainstream, I'm...........(words starting to fail me at this point).......Paul Revere's horse!

27 Dec 05 - 06:03 PM (#1635641)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: GUEST,Merde, alors!

Ever hear the rantings and ravings of a sociopathic hate-monger before?

Well, you have now!

27 Dec 05 - 06:03 PM (#1635642)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: GUEST,615

Martin is beneath contempt. Anyone who would laugh about a man's physical challenges or make jokes about the death of an infant child doesn't deserve to get the attention that he craves from us. Ignore him and he will eventually go away. He's only here to push buttons. When we react - he wins. For many of us - he no longer exists.

27 Dec 05 - 06:06 PM (#1635643)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: GUEST,Merde, alors!

His savage attacks on gays are a dead giveaway that he, himself, is a latent homosexual, and it's drivimg him crazy!

Now listen to how wildly he denies it. More proof!

27 Dec 05 - 06:15 PM (#1635647)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: number 6

The movie which is the subject of this thread .... doesn't interest me in the least bit. I don't give a rat's ass about it being about some gay cow pokes, and I don't give a rat's ass on everyones's opinion regarding it... if I did, then I'd have to get involved with all the negative squabbling... overall, this movie just seems dull.

A good western was 'Heaven's Gate' which I thought was magnificiant .... my gain, the critics loss ....'High Noon' was a classic.

sIx

27 Dec 05 - 06:21 PM (#1635649)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Big Al Whittle

I agree the critics get it wrong.

I loved Costner's Wyatt Earp - particularly the James Howard Newton score, bits of which sounded like Copeland. Missouri Breaks - I really liked that.

Cold mountain, I couldn't give a damn whether that bloke got home or not. Open Range - they could have closed it down for me.....

After all this to do, I'll probably watch this one.

27 Dec 05 - 06:30 PM (#1635653)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Little Hawk

Costner's "Wyatt Earp" was far and away the best movie ever done on Mr Earp. Absolutely great. It was way too real for the public (who I suppose wanted another unreal Hollywood spectacle like "Tombstone" or "Young Guns"), and the critics were just in the mood to crucify Costner at that time, no matter what he did.

27 Dec 05 - 06:55 PM (#1635664)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: robomatic

Of the recent flicks, liked Silverado. Of the cross cultural, Little Big Man (The book is even better and there was an acceptable sequel about five years ago). Just all around great: The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance. Comic: Cat Ballou.

27 Dec 05 - 07:13 PM (#1635667)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: GUEST

Phony, intolerant, anti-semitic, psuedo-intellectual.... well Gibbon, you've just described yourself. Oh let's add latent,cause it's obvious to everyone else. Don't give us the moral excuse. You are not a moral person.

27 Dec 05 - 07:22 PM (#1635674)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: GUEST

Don't feed the trolls.

27 Dec 05 - 08:05 PM (#1635689)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: katlaughing

Kendall, you might find this review of a homophobic so-called Biblical scholar's book interesting: click here..keep reading, there's some very interesting points throughout the article.

kat

27 Dec 05 - 09:01 PM (#1635724)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Once Famous

Watching out, that is. As in running away.

27 Dec 05 - 09:07 PM (#1635726)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: GUEST,Merde, alors!

And there he is as predicted, mes élèves! Observe how the specimen twists, writhes, and objects strenuously, even indulging in insults and abuse. What more evidence does one need?

Whether or not he cares about what is said about him is evidenced by the fact that he feels it necessary to tell us how much he DOESN'T care. Intéresant, n'est-ce pass?

He even tries to divert our attention to his predicament by referring to "his wife." Could his wife's name be Fred, peut-etre?

27 Dec 05 - 09:20 PM (#1635733)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: number 6

Thanks for mentioning "Cat Ballou" robomatic ... excellent movie ... a good example of a comedy/western, that can not be easily pulled off ... I also agree with you on "Little Big Man", I actually have a copy of that on VHS.

sIx

27 Dec 05 - 09:46 PM (#1635758)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: GUEST,Merde, alors!

NOW he wants me to take his penis in my mouth. OY! MERDE INDEED!!

Ptui!!

That about wraps it up. Film at 11:00!

27 Dec 05 - 09:47 PM (#1635759)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: GUEST,Jacques Le Vendreau

As a French gay rights activist and an intellectual dilletante who hates Americans, is deeply leftist, and approves of effete, ivory-tower pontification of every sort, I must say, Martin, that I take umbrage to your insensitive remarks on this forum. Deep umbrage. I am going to find out where you live and come and visit you for a few months, however long it takes, and by my eloquence save you from the terrible state of mind you have devolved into with your obscene ranting on this forum. I will soon have you reading good literature and eating properly cooked food. I will teach you to admire France. You will realize that Chicago is a hellhole, and you will move to Paris, there to become a much different man. You will secure French citizenship and turn your back on the cesspool of urban America. You will eat quiche and drink tea with one finger sticking daintily out to the side. You will eat champignons and truffles. You will write a long apology to all those whom you have thoughtlessly savaged on this forum and elsewhere, and subject yourself to self-flagellation in repentance. You will leave the archaic faith of Judaism behind and become a liberal humanist. All this I am willing to do on behalf of a suffering humanity. Why? Because I am the kind who cares, Martin. I care deeply about you, as I do about all those who have been led astray. I feel your pain.

Expect me to arrive about mid-January.

27 Dec 05 - 10:11 PM (#1635779)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: GUEST,Jacques Le Vendreau

What, no answer yet? Ah, Martin, do not be shy. I know you have had your little fingers burnt before, but I am your friend. I will rush to your aid as soon as I have met my responsibilities here in my beloved France. Have no fear, mon ami! Your deliverance is at hand. In a mere 2 weeks I shall be knocking on your door, bringing bottles of Perrier and fine French wine and pastries. We shall have wonderful times together. I will also be bringing a real French poodle (miniature) for you dear wife, Gail, and it is house-trained. Your life, my petite Martin, is about to be transformed forever!

27 Dec 05 - 10:16 PM (#1635786)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: GUEST,Jacques Le Vendreau

Mon Dieu! It is worse than I thought. The dementia grows stronger with each passing moment.

Martin, I am willing to consider altering my very tight schedule. I will be there by January 10th latest.

Hang on to your sanity, mon ami! Help is on the way.

27 Dec 05 - 10:19 PM (#1635787)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: GUEST,Merde, alors!

I don't know, Jacques. You may have to pry him out of his kennel.

Bon chance, but I really don't know about this......

27 Dec 05 - 10:21 PM (#1635789)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Peace

"Why? Because I am the kind who cares, Martin. I care deeply about you, as I do about all those who have been led astray. I feel your pain."

It ain't yer pain he wants to feel.

27 Dec 05 - 10:25 PM (#1635791)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: number 6

Boredom .... Boredom .... boredom .... boredom

sIx

27 Dec 05 - 10:26 PM (#1635795)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: number 6

Martin for a guy of your age I think you would know better than to get trapped into this crap.

sIx

27 Dec 05 - 10:27 PM (#1635796)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: GUEST,Jacques Le Vendreau

I have absolute confidence that I can save this unfortunate wretch. One must remember: he is from Chicago. That alone can account for a great deal. He has suffered much. But when he is exposed to the ineffable glories and beauties of the French culture, all that will be washed away. It will be as if it had never been. I have saved others, and I shall save Martin too. Nothing can stop Jacques Le Vendreau when he sets his mind to the task.

27 Dec 05 - 10:35 PM (#1635804)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Peace

"ineffable glories and beauties of the French culture"

France took its cooking from Italy. At least they had the good sense to do that.

27 Dec 05 - 10:36 PM (#1635805)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: bobad

Peace

Try telling that to a Frenchman.

27 Dec 05 - 10:40 PM (#1635806)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: GUEST,ghost of Errol Flynn

the only cultural aspect of France I can think of is the art of soixante-neuf.

27 Dec 05 - 10:59 PM (#1635812)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: GUEST

I wanna see it, Jacques. Save Martin! Save Martin!

28 Dec 05 - 12:34 AM (#1635842)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Amos

Cher JAcques,

I am elated at the sheer boldness of your proposition; your choice of strategies is impeccable in the best Napoleonic tradition; unfortunately you have chosen a real ragamuffin for a target, one whose feces is invested in their vocabulary at every opportunity. Regardless, I know in my heart that if ANYONE can save Martin, you are the man of the moment, the chevalier du jour, the one for the job. Courage, mon vieux!! Allez-y!

A

28 Dec 05 - 05:30 AM (#1635877)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Big Al Whittle

And if the self flagellation doesn't work out, theres one or two mudcatters who would probably help out in that direction....

see if you can teach him Nuages instead of that bluegrass stuff, and get him sorted out with a decent yamaha while you're at it.

28 Dec 05 - 05:31 AM (#1635878)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: GUEST,B

Salut Jacques,
You said in your very generous offer to the 'Odious One'
"You will write a long apology to all those whom you have thoughtlessly savaged on this forum"

As you can see below he did attempt something of that nature a while back...but unfortunately he stopped taking the Medication and has returned...not that anyone here REALLY cares that he has (I use he....as he/she/it... would like us to believe that they are a He)

So just to kill some time before I leave for work....here is that apology!!!!

" Martin Gibson BS: For Real. I quit 10 Jun 05

And just like that I have had enough. time to move on, do something else. For any I have caused any harm, I completely apologize. To those I have befriended, stay well.

It's been fun. speculate all you want. but really, I have just had enough.

Take Care."

I admire your selflessness Jacques....I hope you can do what modern medicine has obviously failed to accomplish.

28 Dec 05 - 06:57 AM (#1635906)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: GUEST,Fartin Gibbon

I find Jews and Judism offensive, it ain't natural! But as long as they do it in the privacy of their own business then I shall let the matter pass. Though the thought of all that Hebrew going on behind closed doors really turns my stomach.

28 Dec 05 - 08:28 AM (#1635936)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: kendall

Actually Martin, AIDS started among the heterosexual community in Africa, and french fries are not french at all, they originated in Belgium.

28 Dec 05 - 10:56 AM (#1636017)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Once Famous

Yeah, but people from Belgium are also frogs, just smaller.

Some of the real gays here think they are having a field day, like this frog Jacques.

Jacques, can you say "rivit?"

And yes, I quit when someone physically threatened me. but that matter has been cleaned up and that person has now apologized and quit, so I am back. Glad to be here, also. Telling it how it is, watching Guests who are regular posters continue to be cowardly. Especially the gay ones.

Kendall, yes AIDS started in Africa in the heterosexual community but only after someone fucked a monkey. How it spread worldwide though was not through the heterosexual community. The majority of it who die are not part of the heterosexual community, either.

28 Dec 05 - 11:15 AM (#1636023)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Ebbie

Wow. Now I not only know the types of people who read - and believe - that canard but I know the type and level of things they read. Not only that, I know their heroes.

Amazing.

28 Dec 05 - 11:21 AM (#1636029)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Stilly River Sage

How it spread worldwide though was not through the heterosexual community. The majority of it who die are not part of the heterosexual community, either.

Wrong, monkey-breath. It now is spreading largely through the heterosexual community throughout the world. And the majority who die are children.

28 Dec 05 - 11:42 AM (#1636042)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Alba

Here's a few "statistics" for anyone who is totally ignorant of the Disease
More than 25 million people have died of AIDS since 1981.

Africa has 12 million AIDS orphans.

By December 2005 women accounted for 46% of all adults living with HIV worldwide, and for 57% in sub-Saharan Africa.

Young people (15-24 years old) account for half of all new HIV infections worldwide - more than 6,000 become infected with HIV every day.

Of the 6.5 million people in developing and transitional countries who need life-saving AIDS drugs, only 1 million are receiving them.

I detest ignorance on such a massive Humanita

28 Dec 05 - 11:59 AM (#1636053)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Alba

......Humanitarian issue.( submit button fired ahead without me:>)
Damn there is some really sick thinking in some of the posts on this Thread...really sick.

MG you say to Guest B.... I quit when someone physically threatened me. but that matter has been cleaned up and that person has now apologized and quit, so I am back. Glad to be here, also. Telling it how it is, watching Guests who are regular posters continue to be cowardly. Especially the gay ones.
By responding to the starter of this Thread you seemed to have no problem with a Guest starting a Thread based on their obvious Homophobia! We are all Guests here MG. This is the Internet....wether someone posts an opinion as Guest or under a Mudcat name...we are all anon.
Did you actually THINK about why someone felt so angry towards you? Most likely you thought it was pretty cool that you had managed to get to another Human Being so powerfully..but it sounds to me like you were more than a bit afraid of them whoever it was. To date I have NEVER read anything you post and came to the conclusion that you were 'telling it like it is' All I think is "why is this person so angry, cruel and here in this forum.. when it seems that this person HATES everyone except maybe 2 other posters!!! I do not mean that as an insult, just telling you how it is and like me not caring about your opinions I am sure the same goes for you and mine. Anyhow....back to Brokeback Mountain. A Film that has NOTHING to do with AIDS whatsoever.
What a brilliant Screenplay.
Excellent performances.
Well worth viewing.

Jude

28 Dec 05 - 12:43 PM (#1636086)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Amos

Interesting; the excellence of the cinematography and the script have no bearing to a mind swept up in the throes of buttons being pushed. A Canadian friend of mine swore up and down he would never see such a movie, even though he catches almost every good movie that comes out, entirely based on the concept that it had gay cowboys in it. Amazing how powerful bigotry can be, even in something as foolish as watching films.

A

28 Dec 05 - 12:53 PM (#1636094)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Little Hawk

You been talking to Shane, Amos? ;-)

28 Dec 05 - 12:53 PM (#1636095)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Big Al Whittle

let's get the guy and the monkey.

greatname for a band.....someone fucked a monkey. i'd buy the album.

28 Dec 05 - 01:16 PM (#1636107)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: michaelr

Go away, Martin.

28 Dec 05 - 03:59 PM (#1636175)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: number 6

What amazes about these posts is that everyone involved in the stooopid mudslinging are well passed the age of 50yrs .... entering the 'golden' age and their sqwuaking like a bunch of kids in the play yard.

Yer all a bunch of old nancy boys anyways ... there, got my 2cents worth into this.

Hey anyone seen Grumpy Old Men ?? Should make a cowboy version. Starring .... ?

sIx

28 Dec 05 - 04:13 PM (#1636180)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: GUEST,ghost of Django Reinhardt

Did I hear someone equate people from Belgium as frogs, small frogs at that!!!!

28 Dec 05 - 04:13 PM (#1636181)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Big Al Whittle

Danny La rue, Melvin Hayes,.....

28 Dec 05 - 05:12 PM (#1636210)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Little Hawk

So, 6, how do you know that their squabbling is not tongue in cheek? Or does tongue in cheek humor simply not amuse you?

Humor, remember, is a very subjective and individual matter. Some people find Adam Sandler hilarious, for example, but I don't. Some people find obscene language hilarious. I usually don't...but on occasion, maybe. Depends on context and timing. Some people find the subject of farts hilarious. Again, I usually don't...but on occasion, maybe.

Chimps? Almost always amusing.

And "old farts"...not funny at all! Not any more. (actually, I never liked the expression)

28 Dec 05 - 05:18 PM (#1636214)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: number 6

LH ... did you READ all of my post. Or don't YOU understand tongue in cheek humour.

sIx

28 Dec 05 - 05:22 PM (#1636216)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: GUEST,ghost of Quosimodo

what's this about tongue in cheek ???

28 Dec 05 - 05:31 PM (#1636225)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Little Hawk

Yeah, 6, I loved the bit about the "nancy boys"...but I seem to have misinterpreted your actual intent in that post...I thought you were genuinely bothered by the "squabbling" and the "boredom" anyway, for some reason. I was going by your last 3 posts when I made that assumption.

So, what is a "soixante-neuf"? Anybody know? Is it a sextet or something?

28 Dec 05 - 05:33 PM (#1636229)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: number 6

Martin .... so that's where you buy your guitars !! And all this time I thought you were boasting about real Martins.

In fact I bought my grandson one of those pretend entry level Martins from Toy 'r Us for Christmas. Certainly doesn't match my Taylor.

sIx

28 Dec 05 - 05:36 PM (#1636232)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Once Famous

Nah, I don't buy my guitars there. Just the far left liberal politics when they are reduced for clearance because no one bought them.

28 Dec 05 - 05:39 PM (#1636235)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Little Hawk

"waste of space" Ha! You know nothing about wastage of space, Martin.

Wait till I launch my next Shatner thread.

Then too, have you read any of Shambles' threads where he complains about thread title name changes and stuff like that? You will understand the full horror of the cumulative effects of four years of trench warfare in 1914-18 if you succeed in plowing all the way through one of those.

28 Dec 05 - 06:06 PM (#1636255)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Big Al Whittle

I was a Father Xmas at Toys are Us one year.
In a little plastic shed with a plastic reindeer and a lady elf in tights bringing the kids in.

an interesting job!
wouldn't do it again, but interesting....
no one asked for a Martin, or a yamaha, or a Taylor
they all wanted gameboys that year

28 Dec 05 - 06:09 PM (#1636257)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Peace

"Then too, have you read any of Shambles' threads where he complains about thread title name changes and stuff like that? You will understand the full horror of the cumulative effects of four years of trench warfare in 1914-18 if you succeed in plowing all the way through one of those."

I would sooner drink a glass of liquid shit.

28 Dec 05 - 06:10 PM (#1636259)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Little Hawk

It wasn't the "Tickle Me Elmo" year, then, was it?

28 Dec 05 - 06:12 PM (#1636262)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Little Hawk

You're on the wrong friggin' thread again, Bruce. Get a grip!

28 Dec 05 - 06:13 PM (#1636264)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Little Hawk

No, wait.....I'M on the wrong friggin' thread! Oh, the mortification.

28 Dec 05 - 06:14 PM (#1636266)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Peace

This isn't jimmyt's vinegar thread? DANG.

28 Dec 05 - 06:16 PM (#1636270)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Little Hawk

You and me, man...we need to spend a week or two in the drunk tank with Shane and get lucid, eh?

28 Dec 05 - 06:19 PM (#1636271)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Peace

I know where to get some Muscatel (if jimmyt doesn't turn it all into vinegar first). Even if that happened, it'd be difficult to tell the difference anyway. I don't buy none of that expensive stuff at $1.00 per liter.

28 Dec 05 - 06:45 PM (#1636287)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Amos

The point has again flown over the heads of the knee-jerk reactionaries over in Martin's piece of Redneck Junction.

Godspeed. Don't go see "Brokeback Mountain", Martin. You wouldn't understand it, and you'd hate it as a result. It would be a waste of your hard-earned dough.

I am sure there is some other way to get some beauty into your life. You'll figger it out in due course.

A

28 Dec 05 - 07:14 PM (#1636313)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: jaze

Tolerance is wrong? And we wonder why we have wars?

28 Dec 05 - 07:24 PM (#1636320)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Alba

:>)

28 Dec 05 - 08:52 PM (#1636389)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: katlaughing

Acclaimed western BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN has topped Florida's annual movie critics poll, after walking away with four awards including Best Film.

The controversial movie also won Best Director (ANG LEE), Best Screenplay (LARRY McMURTRY and DIANA OSSANA), and Best Cinematography (RODRIGO PRIETO) in the Florida Film Critics Circle vote.

28 Dec 05 - 10:43 PM (#1636443)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: number 6

LH ... everyone misinterpets my humour. No, I'm not a grouch in the least bit.

..and yes "think of it as a sextet or something like that?" .. your very observant ! :)

sIx

28 Dec 05 - 10:47 PM (#1636448)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Little Hawk

Yeah, that's what I thought. I'll try to be more observant of your humour in future, 6.

28 Dec 05 - 10:53 PM (#1636454)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: number 6

Don't worry ... I'm always getting in trouble for that.... but I've survived this far.

sIx

28 Dec 05 - 11:56 PM (#1636499)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: GUEST,gregory

It is amazing that Ang Lee could make anything worth watching.

29 Dec 05 - 03:54 AM (#1636542)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: dianavan

I wonder if Martin thinks you get bovine encephalitis from fucking cows?

He probably thinks you get avian flu from fucking birds, tool

...and Donuel, don't you dare illustrate those thoughts!

29 Dec 05 - 03:54 AM (#1636543)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: dianavan

too!

29 Dec 05 - 11:22 AM (#1636715)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Once Famous

dianavan, see the movie Philadelphia and stop being the usual idiot in denial of what is fact. AIDS is proportionately wider spread in the gay community and the risk of getting it is higher there, especially with multiple partners.

I don't want to see the movie, Amos because it is about gays. Do you want to see movies you are not interested in? It doesn't interest me or probably many others unless they are gay or sympathetic to the gay agenda, or have a brother or a son that is gay or in the fudgepacking business, perhaps. Like I said, the movie is a box office bomb because of very little appeal.

29 Dec 05 - 01:39 PM (#1636753)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Amos

I tole ya not to go see it, Mister Latent. Don't go see it! Do as I say!! :)

A

29 Dec 05 - 01:57 PM (#1636775)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: GUEST,Taylor Takamine

If you do go to see it, Martin, I will be VERY disappointed in you, and will probably never speak to you again.

29 Dec 05 - 02:21 PM (#1636793)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Amos

Do NOT go to that movie.

It would not be good for you.

A

29 Dec 05 - 02:27 PM (#1636796)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Jeri

Martin Gibson must find it very affirming to be the center of the universe for his little entourage. I'd just as soon the lot of you found some other website to devastate with your battles and another unwilling audience to torment.

Taylor Takimine (or whomever you are today), do you really have to jump every time Martin snaps his fingers, do you have to jump through every hoop, or is HE one of your personalities too? I'm really starting to believe you and he are two different personalities inhabiting the same body.

I'm probably going to see the movie, but not at the theaters because it's just too much money. Thanks to Charlie Baum for an intelligent post, back before the usual infestation took hold.

29 Dec 05 - 02:32 PM (#1636800)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: dick greenhaus

I'd be curious to see how much MG could write about a movie he was interested in.

29 Dec 05 - 03:53 PM (#1636856)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Big Al Whittle

mind you he's right.

It's everywhere...take Karate Kid 2. the old guy who was always standing on one leg and the young kid - can't tell me they weren't a bit keen on each other.

Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs - did you see how close together those beds were.....

we need someone to take a stand

29 Dec 05 - 04:16 PM (#1636867)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: John O'L

"we need someone to take a stand"

Yes, or at least someone who won't take a fence.

29 Dec 05 - 06:16 PM (#1636942)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Dave the Gnome

I quit when someone physically threatened me.

Tsk, tsk, Martin. Surely that is the behaviour of those Guests who are regular posters continue to be cowardly. Especially the gay ones.

Is not quiting because someone threatens you a cowardly act? I would have quit the world a long time ago if I was to quit everytime I was physicaly threatened. Learn to fight back, man! Go beyond the words. Remember the phrase coined by one of your famous leaders. Speak softly but carry a big stick:-)

Btw - Did you hear about the gay bandit who went into town to shoot up the sherrif? Did they use the famous cowboy phrase in this film? Yup? Yip!

Sorry - just being offensive.

Cheers

DtG

29 Dec 05 - 06:21 PM (#1636947)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Little Hawk

A lot of people have physically threatened Chongo, and he hasn't quit yet.

29 Dec 05 - 09:26 PM (#1637045)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Once Famous

Dave, being threatened is serious. Most police think so. I have coime back and I fight my own battles, probably much more couragously than many here.

Dick Gashouse, I minored in journalism in college. To me, you have no creditionals to shoot your mouth off because I am not interested in seeing a movie about gay men.

Jeri, you just can't make everything that doesn't agree with you just go away. I'm here for the long haul. And I started this thread. If you don't like it, get off. Maybe you need a break. The ones who get worked up with what I write about and perhaps yourself also have no exact hold on what the Mudcat world is. As for my entourage, specifically who are you refering to? The guest who poses as Taylor Takamine is like most of the Guests here. Cowardly regulars who can usually only insult or ridicule in something other than their regular sign-in Mudcat name. As I have always said, I only use the Martin Gibson.

Now, I will state it again. This movie about men who sodomize and buttfuck each other for whatever reason, I don't care if they do love each other is not a movie I am interested in seeing. None of the major theater chains will touch it but with a few exceptions because it's audience, like it's agenda, is purely speical interest only.

Amos, you don't need to tell me what to do. Perhaps after seeing this movie, you can go to a gay bar and discuss it with your former lovers. I am sure that they would love to share their agenda with you.

29 Dec 05 - 09:37 PM (#1637059)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: dick greenhaus

Dear Martin-
Now I understand. As someone who was a practising journalist for msny years, I had forgotten what a school of journalism can do to an unformed mind.

I haven't seen the movie, but I wouldn't consider reviewing without having seen it.

29 Dec 05 - 09:55 PM (#1637081)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Once Famous

I'm not reviewing it. I'm just saying that I have no interest in seeing a movie about fudgepackers, whether they are cowboys, astronauts, or folksingers. That's pretty much what I have been saying all along.

And maybe you stopped practicing journalism because with all of that practice, you just couldn't get it right.

29 Dec 05 - 10:05 PM (#1637088)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Jeri

Martin, I find your problems understanding what others write to be somewhat amusing. The fact you think the movie is a box office failure is amusing. This obsession you have with male homosexuality might be amusing if you were doing a comedy routine. The fact that you accuse everyone who doesn't share your knee-jerk homophobic reaction of being gay (as if they cared) is making you look like the South Park kid they forgot, is VERY funny. When I read what you write, I hear Cartman as a little old guy. There are just too many things that I can't take seriously. I guess what bothers me is that some DO take you seriously enough to go off their rockers.

"Sodomize" AND "buttfuck"!!?? Surely they don't do both at the same time!

29 Dec 05 - 10:42 PM (#1637118)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Amos

Nah, Martin, I wouldn't dream of trying to figure out what you should do, so I could tell you. Too complex an equation. But don't waste your money on this movie, trust me. It ain't for you. I went down to a gay bar and told all my ex-lovers about it, and they said, almost unanimously, that you shouldn't see it. Well, what they said exactly was it ain't fit fare for a broke-dick mammalucca with suppressed latent obsessive-compulsive fixations, but I thought I'd shorten it up for you.

A

29 Dec 05 - 10:45 PM (#1637120)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: GUEST,Sissy spacek's Dad

Now let me get this 'straight'
Martin Gibson started this Thread! Right? He says
" I started this thread. If you don't like it, get off."
I just done lecturin my Daughter about starting it but this statement has got me all confused, cause this person also says " As I have always said, I only use the (name?) Martin Gibson." So why start the Thread under Guest Sissy!
See saying things like " The guest who poses as Taylor Takamine is like most of the Guests here. Cowardly regulars who can usually only insult or ridicule in something other than their regular sign-in Mudcat name." then going and doing it is just darn confusin, if not plain stupid.

29 Dec 05 - 11:24 PM (#1637143)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Ebbie

A liar? A liar! A hypocritical liar! Cowards log off and post as Guests because - unlike our hero - when they want to be anonymous
they use other names?

I have never done that but now we know one Mudcatter who does- after saying numerous times that he doesn't. What a stinkin' liar.

I hope you are just a teeny bit embarrassed. nyah nyah nyah nyah

29 Dec 05 - 11:53 PM (#1637160)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Ebbie

Lest anyone should mistake my aim, I am, of course, referring to Guest/Sissy Martin.

30 Dec 05 - 12:29 AM (#1637171)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Stilly River Sage

Spacek's dad died a number of years ago. Must be a Mudcatter channeling him, eh?

Martin Gibson isn't interested in anything but Martin Gibson. He couldn't care less about the movie, but to go away from the thread he'd lose all of the attention that is now focused on him.

30 Dec 05 - 01:26 AM (#1637185)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: dianavan

Martin has informed us that he started this thread but under the name of sissy.

I guess that proves that Martin is a sissy.

Now that he has exposed himself, maybe he will go away.

I've always wondered what type of pervert he is. Its just plain obvious that he enjoys exposing himself in public.

30 Dec 05 - 04:09 AM (#1637210)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Dave the Gnome

Of course being threatened is serious, Martin. We each have our own way of dealing with it. I found the speak softly but carry a big stick fine for me. Others would rather stir the hornets nest and then run away when they get stung. I am by no means extoling either attitude as right or wrong - Just different. Just as the sexual preferences of other people may be just different?

Don't get me wrong I believe I do understand what you are saying (although I would not have chosen the phrase 'having homosexuality pushed down my throat'...:-) ) Perhaps if I run a personal experience by you, and the rest of the crowd, we may get somewhere? I am a family man myself. Married 32 years, 5 kids - 2 of them married but no grandkids yet:-( I do consider myself tolerant of most things. Some years ago around where I live (Manchester, UK) they decided to have a 'gay pride' parade. It was billed as family friendly, safe and fun so, having nothing to do that particular day and perhaps being overly naive I took the family.

The atmosphere was good. There were jugglers, fire-eaters and all sorts of stuff the kids loved. The first couple of floats were OK too. Then came one of the most blatant displays of public sexuality I had ever seen. Half a dozen or so men on the float, all almost naked dancing and cavorting in the most provocative way imaginable. I simply took the family away to enjoy the rest of the festival away from the parade (there was folk music as well btw - Forget who it was) and ponderered on what I had seen later.

It came to me the following week when an article in the Manchester Evening News proclaimed that the council were divided on whether to allow a lap dancing club in the city centre. It was not the gay men cavorting in public who were in the wrong. It was our stupid council leaders with their double standards and overblown sense of what is correct. It is perfectly OK for men to dance provocatively in public, but not for women to do so in private? I have never been to a lap dancing club btw - neither have I been back to the gay pride parade.

Instead of venting off at the gay men or women who are as much victims of the political machine as we are how about accepting that it may not be the gay people themselves who are causing you concern? Perhaps it is the system that allows minorities rights while denying them to the majority that is wrong? Perhaps it is those who jump on the politcal bandwagon to further their own agendas that are causing problems?

Not that anyone here does that. On either side of the fence;-)

Bear in mind of course that there are times when upholding minority rights can be a good thing. You are of course well aware of that, Martin.

Cheers

DtG

30 Dec 05 - 10:45 AM (#1637384)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Jeri

I believe two threads have been combined and Martin started the 22 Dec one, while 'Sissy' started the 19 Dec thread that got 0 replies.

Ebbie, I still think he's got the edge on integrity over those whose posts appear under random, non-PMable names, and I've seen no evidence that he lies, unlike at least one anonymous other who has made him their mission. I don't care for him, but I don't hate him. Hate turns people into monsters. I DO care about doing the Right Thing, and who's on the receiving end and whether I like them doesn't much matter. It's the right thing. It's about MY conscience. We're all broken and the only way any of us will be fixed is if we give each other a break once in a while and let even those we don't like climb out of their roles and be better.

You're trying too hard to find something to bash him for.

In the holiday season, would you guys please look at your posts in this thread, at other people's posts in this thread, and ask yourself if this is what you want your time here to be about?

30 Dec 05 - 11:14 AM (#1637407)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Ebbie

As the inimitable jOhn might say: oh.

Thanks, Jeri.

30 Dec 05 - 11:17 AM (#1637410)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Big Al Whittle

fudgepackers?
someone fucked a monkey

you are wasted on us Martin.
do you write songs like this?

30 Dec 05 - 11:35 AM (#1637420)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Once Famous

Yes, I did start this thread as Jeri pointed out. She also pointed out that I do speak truth. She also is extremely aware of the fact that what I write brings out some of the worst in the hypocritical Mudcat world. This, at times, cobined with my truth, is extremely rewarding to me.

The Guest, Sissy thread was co-mingled with this one by the clones. Notice the name is different in the subject line.

So you morons as usual are not paying attention, which is totally not surprising.

dianavan and other howlers. Your chain is pulled! You speak but for a very few. Your tolerance of decadence is laughable in the name of tolerance and I am seriously glad that you do not have many leaders in this country that think the way you do, about politics or what is and what is not moral.

This movie is a box office bomb for a true reason. Deal with it.

Weelittle, I don't really care to write songs, just interpret others. There have been many renowned performers and singers over the years who have done just that. If that doesn't make sense to you, why would I think your songs make any sense to me?

30 Dec 05 - 11:48 AM (#1637432)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Amos

But it's not a bomb, Martin -- it's a resounding success and has been widely acclaimed. Are all your conclusions this slipshod?

I don't think it is true that all gay impulses are "decadent" -- I suspect there is some sort of fixed idea behind this assertion about what constitutes moral goodness, or at least moral conformance. But it is mighty presumptuous of you to determine that this fixed notion is some sort of objective truth, which must bear on all human lives. Presumptuous, and worse, kinda dumb.

I don't go in for gay activity myself, but I do kind of think that there is little enough love in the world for anyone to afford to ridicule one form or another of it. I guess people who are overly concerned with being right about things, rather than discovering the truth about them, might find such ridicule an acceptable option, but I think it just contributes to the misery caused by obsessive rightness, which requires making less of others in order to cling to some hope for yourself. (Pretty pathetic, really, when you think how much more joy there is in the world outside such a small game).

A

30 Dec 05 - 12:06 PM (#1637450)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Jeri

I think there already is a monkey-fucking song somewhere. HIV in people didn't start with that. The most reasonable thing I heard was a blood exposure (cut or puncture wound) when somebody was butchering one for dinner. That's just a guess though. Also, fuckees are at a greater risk that fuckers, so if, in this Bosch-like vision of hell, the virus jumped to people from monkeys by sex, it would likely have been from somebody being fucked BY a monkey. Probably up the wazoo, no condom, and no dinner and drinks before.

I'd apologize for my rudeness, but I spent a significant amount of time in Public Health interviewing people who had sexually transmitted diseases about their experiences, and the Great Thread Gerbil has already clawed its way through this one. Plus, until Spaw comes back, somebody has to provide the disgusting element.

Martin, what's your definition of a 'box office bomb'?

After December 23–25, 2005, it was only in 13th place and grossed $1,910,310.00. This is down a bit from 8th place $2,508,494.00 the previous weekend, but that's not anywhere near being a bomb. The fact that it does seem to be being shown in far fewer cinemas and STILL making this much money is significant.

30 Dec 05 - 12:14 PM (#1637459)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: GUEST,Pinky

I think I am in love with Amos. He's so sweet.

30 Dec 05 - 12:47 PM (#1637467)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: kendall

How could a full grown man screw a monkey? Impossible.

30 Dec 05 - 01:09 PM (#1637481)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: MMario

well the monkey certainly wouldn't enjoy it. But kendall - face it - if full grown men can screw chickens and ducks they can probably screw monkeys.

30 Dec 05 - 01:14 PM (#1637486)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Amos

Only if he could get the monkey to hold relatively still. I have no idea how one would go about arranging such a thing....

:D

A

30 Dec 05 - 01:20 PM (#1637489)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: number 6

I wouldn't want to even wonder about it !!

sIx

30 Dec 05 - 01:46 PM (#1637502)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: gnu

Beastiality? And now bondage... unless it was a really friendly monkey... or ugly.

Glad I stopped by to see how this thread was progressing... digressing... regressing... time to egress.

30 Dec 05 - 02:14 PM (#1637523)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: DougR

Mack/Misophist: I suspect the longer the cowboys were out on the range, the better looking those heifers got.

DougR

30 Dec 05 - 02:22 PM (#1637530)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: number 6

gnu ... I think I'll take you cue and egress out of this one !

sIx

30 Dec 05 - 02:32 PM (#1637534)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: GUEST

Boxoffice failure? Check THIS out, Martin.

30 Dec 05 - 02:43 PM (#1637545)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: katlaughing

Kendall, some full-grown men aren't...

30 Dec 05 - 03:37 PM (#1637575)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: DougR

kat: didn't realize they were herding sheep, not cattle. Well, perhaps the Ewes probably become more desirable the longer you live with them.

No question but that this movie is the "darling" of the movie critics. Our local movie critic fell right in line with the others. Shocking, isn't it though, that such an excellent movie, as seen through the eyes of those critics, is not doing that well at the box office. I think it made about 10 million the weekend it opened. Were I an investor, I think I would be a bit nervous about recovering my investment in the film.

DougR

30 Dec 05 - 04:18 PM (#1637594)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Big Al Whittle

Yes we should stick to traditional themes that every moviegoer can take his family out to for a christmas treat.

Harry Potter meets the monkey fuckers, Charlie and the fudgepackers factory, the lion the witch and whoevers available in the wardrobe......

the point I was endeavouring to make was that you have a flair for finding an arresting phrase Martin, learn to take compliments graciously....

its a bit like that song, A Whiter shade of Pale. the phrases are arresting and entertaining. I'm not sure the meaning is of paramount importance.

stating the opinions that you do, would get you smacked in the mouth in most bars in even a provincial city like Derby an Nottingham near where I live, I'm pretty sure they would in a hip groovy sophisticated place like Chicago - if its anything like it appears on the tv.

Admit it, you don't want to make people think or change their minds - you want to press buttons, and you do that pretty well.

30 Dec 05 - 04:51 PM (#1637617)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: bobad

Dan Bern - No Missing Link

They looked for the missing link
There's no missing link
They'll never find the missing link
There's no missing link
We're not something
You can figure out with an equation
We are the genetic mutation

Aliens came and fucked the monkey
They fucked the monkey
Aliens came and fucked the monkey
They fucked the monkey
Aliens came and fucked the monkey
They fucked the monkey

Darwin tried explaining it
Darwin the best he could
Evolution, pretty theory
But how could Darwin know?

That aliens came and fucked the monkey
They fucked the monkey
Aliens came and fucked the monkey
They fucked the monkey

How explain fax machines?
How else explain computer enhancement?
How else explain fiber optics?
How else explain Mozart?

We do not belong here
This planet was a terrarium
Intergalactic broken home
Have to go outer space
And one day find our Daddy

How else explain pay at the pump?
How else explain limited access freeways?
How else explain digital remastering?
Plastic flowers, linoleum, beefalo, Michael Jordan?
Religion?
Astronomy?
Astrology
That looks to the stars

We do not belong here
This planet was a terrarium
Seven billion bastards
Screaming for our Daddy

Aliens came and fucked the monkey
They fucked the monkey
Aliens came and fucked the monkey
They fucked the monkey
Aliens came and fucked the monkey
They fucked the monkey

30 Dec 05 - 05:14 PM (#1637633)
Subject: RE: BS: Gay Western - Brokeback Mountain
From: Peace

I have never understood why anyone cares about the sexual orientation of another person. Or about the clothes she wears or the colour of his skin; the religion she is or the language he speaks. I don't doubt that there are circumstances when such considerations might be important, but not most circumstances.

I seldom go to movies, so it's unlikely I will see this one anytime soon. That said, I knew some gay farmer/ranchers many years back. They were good people, paid their taxes, helped their neighbours when the help was needed and accepted help when that was necessary. It was 'redneck' country, but it seems to me that rednecks are not quite the stunned bad asses their reputation says they are. The couple was accepted by the community and ya'd be hard put to start hassling one of those boys because they were both fairly big and strong men. The one time I heard of them being hassled by a group of 'outta-towners' in the town's downtown area, I also heard that about four or five of the regulars showed up within a few minutes and the situation seemed to settle down real fast. As it should have.

I have great difficulty judging a person based on things like sexual orientation, colour, language, religion or political belief because we are all of us so much more than that.

I recall a dog that belonged to a neighbour. I don't remember the type of dog it was (the kind that have a pushed-in face that makes 'em look like they been chasing parked cars), but I swear it was the ugliest thing I have ever seen in my entire life. He was also kind, obedient to his master, quiet, friendly and I'm quite surprised his arse was able to stay attached to his body because he was like to shake it off the way his tail swung his rear end when he saw someone he knew. But, he was pretty easy to write off at first glance.

I am not addressing this to anyone in particular. People have things they hold to in terms of their perceived morality, and it ain't my place to argue with that. But it is my place to state a position.