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19 Jan 06 - 09:22 PM (#1651871) Subject: Choosing Between Two Banjos From: Dan Schatz So I finally decided to break down and buy a good banjo - if I'm ever going to become a decent banjo player I need to do that. And I've even decided on a maker - I've been very impressed with Bart Reiter's work. Not only are his clearly the best value in new banjos (for one who is interested in tone but not fancy ornamentation, but his sensibilities seem just right for my music. The problem is, which Reiter banjo to buy? I've basically narrowed it down to two. One is the Standard, which has a rolled brass tone hoop, a 1/2 inch 2-ply laminate maple rim, and usually a mahogany neck (my impression is the new ones are mahogany anyway). The other is the Galax, a new banjo that Elderly is selling which is basically a paired down Whyte Laydie with a mahogany neck. Actually, it's very close to the Standard except for the tone ring and rim thickness (it has a 5/8 inch 3-ply rim). (It also has a Waverly tailpiece as opposed to the No-knot, but I gather these are not major components.) I certainly enjoyed the tone of the Standard that I've had a chance to play, but am intrigued with the idea of a banjo that still has a mellow sound (because of the neck) but with the clearer note definition that the Whyte Laydie would give me. As I said in my e-mail to Bart, I'm looking for an instrument with a sweet, not too bright sound - but that gives good definition to the notes. (He said he couldn't comment on tone - it was a matter of pure taste.) My playing is definitely old-time (frailing and a little clawhammer), and I would frequently be using it to accompany singing - one reason for buying the new banjo is that the songs my wife and I like to sing together seem to work best on banjo. But I'd also like an instrument I can grow on and become a better player with. So, does anyone have any thoughts? Does neck wood really make that much difference? (The maple Whyte Laydie I played was a bit too bright for my taste, but the mahogany may be mellower and sweeter.) Is my ideal banjo one of these, but maybe with a real skin head? Sadly, I lack the funds to buy two. Really I lack the funds to buy one, but I'm doing it anyway. The Standard has the advantage of being $200 cheaper, but I'm trying not to make my decision on that basis. Thanks in advance for any wisdom folks have! Warmly, Dan Schatz |
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20 Jan 06 - 12:15 PM (#1652076) Subject: RE: Choosing Between Two Banjos From: Geoff the Duck Every player will have an opinion of particular banjoes. Assuming that the banjo is a good quality instrument, it really does come down to your own preferences in how you want an instrument to sound. Different densities of wood will affect the overall tone and sound of a banjo, but you can only judge the differences by listening to both. A verbal description of the tone etc. of a banjo will never replace actually listening to it. Do you have the opportunity to try both out and compare them? If you are stuck with the problem of American distances, and not able to actually get to the same location as the instruments, how about asking for the maker to record the same think played on your two choices, so you can listen to the tone? Just a thought. Quack! Geoff. |
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20 Jan 06 - 12:16 PM (#1652078) Subject: RE: Choosing Between Two Banjos From: Geoff the Duck the same THING played QUACK! GtD. |
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20 Jan 06 - 01:21 PM (#1652095) Subject: RE: Choosing Between Two Banjos From: GUEST,Russ If you cannot play both banjos in a side by side comparison (which I did the last time I bought a banjo)then flip a coin or buy the prettiest or cheapest or lightest or whatever. My point is that if you cannot hear the banjo yourself, you can't make an intelligent decision based on sound. There's no standard vocabulary for describe banjo tones. One person's "woody" is somebody else's "plunky." All banjos sound different, even if the construction and materials are identical and they were built by the same person on the same day. A significant part of a banjo's tone depends on the setup. Change the the bridge location by a fraction of an inch, or the head tension by half a turn and you change the banjo's sound. A significant part of a banjo's tone depends upon playing style. Different players can make the same banjo sound like anything from a Gibson mastertone to a homemade fretess with a groundhog hide head. |
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20 Jan 06 - 02:50 PM (#1652153) Subject: RE: Choosing Between Two Banjos From: Charley Noble Dan- Hi! There is no better substitute for sitting down and playing the two banjos yourself. However, I don't suppose Elderly would be willing to have someone like Joel Mabus play both of them for you (one at a time, though if anyone could play both at once it would be Joel) and send you an MP3 file of the recording. I better Karrie Potter would be willing to do it; say Charley was asking a favor! You should be reasonably pleased with either choice. Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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20 Jan 06 - 03:30 PM (#1652192) Subject: RE: Choosing Between Two Banjos From: Dan Schatz Now there's an interesting idea, Charley. Somehow I doubt they'll do it, but okay - I've sent an e-mail to them and we'll see what happens. It has occured to me that if luthiers and music stores sold made a regular practice of posting sound files, we'd all be able to make better decisions. In time, it may be possible to get hold of a Galax closer to home, but apparently Bart has hurt his shoulder and has slowed down his production schedule quite a bit. My impression is that he makes banjos when he feels like it, so one could wait forever for the right instrument to show up. I've been able to hear a couple of recordings of Reiter Whyte Laydies, and had the chance to play one of them at the Bucks County Folk Music Shop here in Pennsylvania, but it's hard to judge. The BCFMS has them all set up to, in the words of the owner, "be the most that they can be," which I take to mean that is most to his personal taste. (And his taste is BRIGHT.) Of course, nobody but Elderly has the Galax right now. Part of the problem for me is that banjos are so mechanical - the factors that affect tone are different than anything I'm used to with autoharps, guitars and dulcimers. Whether or not it helps me choose a banjo, I'd still be interested in what folks think about the effect of neck wood on tone. Does it really have much of an effect? Thanks for the advice, folks. If need be I'll just sit tight and wait - but for some reason I have a burr in my saddle to do this soon. Dan |
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20 Jan 06 - 07:09 PM (#1652355) Subject: RE: Choosing Between Two Banjos From: Dan Schatz Well, not surprisingly, Elderly wrote back saying they couldn't send a sound file. It was worth a shot, but no dice. Dan |
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21 Jan 06 - 10:33 AM (#1652766) Subject: RE: Choosing Between Two Banjos From: Charley Noble Dan- It was worth a try. I suppose it would kind of tie them up for a hour or so responding to each request, and there might be hundreds of them. Still, I often see links to sound files at Banjo Hangout and even on eBay. The problem with sound files, of course, is they vary in quality with the recording ability of the seller, or could be "souped up" in the editing. For what it's worth I prefer a heavier neck and I think it's related to the mellow sound that I like. The Stewart banjo I have is an Orchestra model, not one of the lighter Thoroughbred models. Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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21 Jan 06 - 10:56 AM (#1652784) Subject: RE: Choosing Between Two Banjos From: Ron Davies Didn't one of the soul singers have a hit in the 70's called "Torn Between Two Banjos"? Oops, sorry--that was "Torn Between Two Lovers". I knew it was close. |
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21 Jan 06 - 12:46 PM (#1652861) Subject: RE: Choosing Between Two Banjos From: GUEST,Russ The interesting question is NOT, "Does neck wood affect tone?" Everything affects tone. (Butterfly effect). The interesting question is whether you or anybody else can hear the difference that is due ONLY to the neck wood. I personally have never noticed any differences that I would attribute solely to the neck wood. There's lots more to the neck than just wood. Tuning machines, reinforcing rods, frets, fingerboard, finish, etc. I would expect their combined effects to far outweight that of the wood. If there were a consistent difference audible to ordinary banjo players I would assume that nobody would have to ask the question. |
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21 Jan 06 - 01:10 PM (#1652876) Subject: RE: Choosing Between Two Banjos From: GUEST,Arnie Naiman The banjo with the Whyte Laydie tone ring may have slightly brighter tone than the one with the simple brass tone ring, but it will have more sustain which I personally find is better for clawhammer chord playing and backup for singing. You can definitely adjust the tone of your banjo by changing bridges - thickness and style etc., string gauges and head tightness to get it where you like it. The player has everything to do with the sound you get - how hard and clear you attack the strings and if you use a fingernail, pick or whatever. Reiter banjos are generally quite good in quality. You need to try them, but keep in mind setup (sting height etc.)is often a thing that often has to be done on a new banjo to tailor it to your liking. You might also want to look up Donald Zepp at Zepp Country Music who is all knowing banjowise and usually has some nice banjos around at pretty fair prices. |
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21 Jan 06 - 10:34 PM (#1653201) Subject: RE: Choosing Between Two Banjos From: kindaloupehackenweez If its not too late get the Golax: I once had a lex paul copy and up against the lez paul the "people" liked the copy better (the sound) as well as thous who played it. I have a Savannah that was wourpeed, twisted. and with a broken inner support dowel. I ended up rebuilding it one winter and its a heavy duty, sting on the fret without buzzing, exceptable sounding if not better than what it probly was bran new. Meaning you can tweek a heavier unit in without the likelyhood of creating permaniate damage compaired to the lighter weigh unit. Although my sacrafic longer distance high's / higher frequenties |
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26 Jan 06 - 04:01 PM (#1656138) Subject: RE: Choosing Between Two Banjos From: Dan Schatz Thanks everybody for your advice! As it turns out, I'm ending up going in a completely different (and - gulp - a little pricier) direction. I've just bought a 1999 Mike Ramsey Fairbanks Electric that was on consignment at Zepps in North Carolina. Like the Galax, it's a mahogany neck banjo with the Whyte Laydie tone ring - but a little thinner rim. I was able to find some sound files of these and found that, at least over the internet, it sounded like exactly what I was looking for - mellow, with good note definition. (In case anybody cares, you can - for the moment - hear this exact banjo here. Apparently these hold their value very well - even increase in value because of the difficulty of getting hold of them. Thanks everyone for the advice - I particularly appreciate the reminder of how important it is to at least hear the banjo before buying. I'll let you know how it goes. Warmly, Dan |
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26 Jan 06 - 05:33 PM (#1656205) Subject: RE: Choosing Between Two Banjos From: Charley Noble Sounds like a great choice. I'll look forward to seeing and hearing it at the next Getaway. Charley Noble |