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23 Jan 06 - 01:10 PM (#1654211) Subject: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Jerry Rasmussen If there was a Rogue's Gallery of Dangerous Words, "all" would be in there. Now mind you, "all" is a good word. You could say "all the seats in the room were taken," and that would be fine. Where "all" becomes dangerous is when you apply it to groups of people. "All Republicans are..," "All Democrats are..," "All Atheists are..," or "All organized religions are." When you use the word "all" in that way, "bad" things happen. In your desire to make a point you oversimplify so much that the statement is untrue. If "all" American blacks thought that "all" white people were prejudiced, this country would not have made the strides it has in combatting racism. The word "all" is divisive in instances like that and it can destroy the opportunity for diverse groups to work together in a common battle against injustice. The word "all" is the darling of prejudice. It is its very heart and soul. It paints the innocent with the same brush as the guilty. Now I could use the word "all" in a good way by saying that we "all" are guilty of using the word "all" in a bad way. It may be carelessness, or speaking in the heat of the moment. Hopefully, none of us in here use it intentionally to divide people. And hopefully when we use it to oversimplify our argument, when we are called on it, we'll recognize the harm that a little three letter word can do. If someone catches me using "all" in a bad way in here, please call me on it. It's a dangerous habit to get into. If you find yourself using phrases with the word "all" to categorize a group of people in a negative way, I'd encourage you to stop and reflect on it for a moment. When someone uses the "all" word to judge a whole group of people they make it very difficult to work together in a common cause. Jerry |
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23 Jan 06 - 01:22 PM (#1654216) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: TheBigPinkLad All humans are earthlings All aetheists are humans; ergo All aetheists are earthlings. If it's right, it's right. |
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23 Jan 06 - 01:33 PM (#1654221) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: *daylia* Alleluia! |
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23 Jan 06 - 01:55 PM (#1654222) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Ebbie All is well! |
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23 Jan 06 - 02:18 PM (#1654230) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Janie Is that all y'all got to say? Janie |
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23 Jan 06 - 02:18 PM (#1654231) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: katlaughing All's right with the world...I wish! |
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23 Jan 06 - 02:19 PM (#1654235) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Peace Wot all's this about? |
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23 Jan 06 - 03:00 PM (#1654261) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Jerry Rasmussen Those is "good: alls.... Jerry |
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23 Jan 06 - 03:01 PM (#1654263) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Peace I uses alls when I puncture leather, BTW. |
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23 Jan 06 - 03:02 PM (#1654264) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Janie Didn't she do research on Mountain Gorillas? Janie |
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23 Jan 06 - 03:04 PM (#1654268) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: gnu All we need is love........ |
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23 Jan 06 - 04:31 PM (#1654312) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Bill D All generalizations are bad. Except for tautologies, and they are suspect. |
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23 Jan 06 - 04:39 PM (#1654315) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Peace What are 'tauts'? (Ideas in Newfoundland?) I am lost here. |
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23 Jan 06 - 04:42 PM (#1654318) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Bee-dubya-ell I'll see your all and raise you a no, an always, and a never. |
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23 Jan 06 - 04:48 PM (#1654323) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Jerry Rasmussen Ah yes, BDL, In the Rogues Gallery Of Dangerous words, right next to "All" you'll find "Always," "Never" "Everyone, "Anyone," amd "No One" enshrined. Good words that often go bad. Tsk, tsk... such a pity. And they were so well raised... Jerry |
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23 Jan 06 - 04:56 PM (#1654330) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Jim Dixon Two other good words to avoid, especially when arguing with someone, are "always" and "never". |
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23 Jan 06 - 04:58 PM (#1654331) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Jim Dixon Oops! Jerry beat me to it. |
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23 Jan 06 - 05:02 PM (#1654335) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Big Al Whittle I dunno Jerry, half the serial killers on record seem to claim inspiration for their deeds from The Bible. Its in the nature of words for there to be misinterpretation, and of course we all unwittingly hurt people with our words and actions. i don't think there's an answer to this one, it's called the human condition..... all the best al |
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23 Jan 06 - 05:03 PM (#1654336) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Once Famous All stereotypes are based on a certain amount of truth. |
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23 Jan 06 - 05:06 PM (#1654340) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Peace Sony, Sanyo, General Electric, RCA. There's yer stereotypes. Not all of them. SOME. |
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23 Jan 06 - 05:07 PM (#1654342) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Janie OK. Time to make it a music thread. "All of me. Why not take all of me. Can't you see that I'm no good without you. You took the part that once was my heart So why not take all of me!" Janie |
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23 Jan 06 - 05:09 PM (#1654349) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Jerry Rasmussen Hey, WeeLittle... "half" isn't in the Rogues Gallery of Words. It only goes bad if it cannot be substantiated, and is really one-quarter. :-) And yes, Martin, there is always an element of truth in a stereotype. It may even be greater than one-half. But it is never "all." (I think I used "never" accurately there.) But then, ya never know. Jerry |
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23 Jan 06 - 05:18 PM (#1654362) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Janie All kidding aside,(pun only partly intended) it is good to be reminded of this every now and then. I spend a lot time as a psychotherapist encouraging people to examine their "all or nothing" thinking, which nearly always embodies cognitive distortions. In fact, a homework assignment I often give is "Just notice how often you think in terms or speak in terms of all, never, always, should and ought. Then try changing it to some, sometimes, often, rarely, occasionally, and/or could." All of youse ought to try it some time, but I bet you never will. Myself, of course, I always stay away from those distortions and never let one slip past me. I am also always right and you are always wrong. As long as you never forget that, we'll get along just fine! Janie |
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23 Jan 06 - 05:22 PM (#1654369) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Bill D gee, Martin, I have to agree with you about stereotypes...I wonder if we'd agree on the details of WHICH ones? |
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23 Jan 06 - 05:28 PM (#1654373) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Bobert "All I want for Christmas is my two front teeth...." Opps, I lied... Throw in that 3 box set of Country Blues... ...please. That's all fir now... |
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23 Jan 06 - 05:36 PM (#1654378) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Once Famous Well, Bill D, I can start with a couple. My Uncle had a big nose and most Asians have bad breath. |
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23 Jan 06 - 05:42 PM (#1654383) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Bill D your Uncle is one example of an observable phenomenon...and I KNOW that little rhythme*. I take it you have smelled a lot of Asian breath? 50% or more? (Maybe it's that 50% of EVERYONE has bad breath...) *The Lord said to Moses, "All the Jews shall have big noses...excepting for Aaron, he shall have a squareon." But I know many Jews who don't...so *shrug*....do you? |
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23 Jan 06 - 05:49 PM (#1654389) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Once Famous No, I have a goyishe nose. The Lord really said to Aaron that he will break Babe Ruth's home run record. As far as Asians go, I think it's a curry thing. |
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23 Jan 06 - 05:56 PM (#1654392) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Bill D whole reams of Asians never eat curry...which is one reason I said, facetiously, that "all generalizations are bad"..... what is sad is that people can't differentiate between stereotypes that are relevant and generalizations that are stupid. |
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23 Jan 06 - 06:37 PM (#1654408) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Amos Jerry has pinpointed a really interesting and valuable observation: generalities which ar enegative are destructive, while those that are neutral or positive are less so. The dynamics of this distinction are really interesting to me. One obvious difference is that we are accustomed to zeroing in hard on badnesses in order to correct them (if we're responsive at all) and when you try to do that with a negative generalization (everyone knowns you suck, for example, one of MG's favorite patterns) it is a lot like trying to step on a step that isn't there, or shoot at shadows. We feel less urgency to deal with positive things (why fix soemthing that is going right?) so the headaches are much less noticeable even if the information is just as generalized. A |
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23 Jan 06 - 06:57 PM (#1654420) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Peace "The Lord really said to Aaron that he will break Babe Ruth's home run record." THAT was very good. |
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23 Jan 06 - 07:04 PM (#1654423) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Bert All southerners say Y'all. |
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23 Jan 06 - 07:09 PM (#1654425) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Jerry Rasmussen As long as it's got a Y' in front of it, all is alright. Jerry |
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23 Jan 06 - 07:13 PM (#1654427) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Peace "As long as it's got a Y' in front of it, all is alright." I opine that that should read 'As long as it's got a Y' in front of it, all is y'alright.' |
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24 Jan 06 - 02:34 AM (#1654704) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: JennyO So do all y'all wear Y fronts? |
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24 Jan 06 - 08:42 AM (#1654723) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: David C. Carter All in all,all's well in the Y fronts! |
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24 Jan 06 - 09:37 AM (#1654771) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Bill D No Y fronts...Munsingwear only! (But why do you ask, Jenny?) |
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24 Jan 06 - 10:56 AM (#1654851) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: JennyO Dunno Y. Maybe I just like to be con-fronting... |
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24 Jan 06 - 11:18 AM (#1654865) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Rasener I like the following. The use of can't. e.g. Somebody is smoking in a no smoking area. Somebody else walks up to that person and says "You can't smoke in here" Somebody singing in the library - "You can't sing in here" All Morris dancers are gay - well some of them may be, but I would imagine the majority aren't. Its amazing what those little white handkerchiefs conjure up in all peoples minds |
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24 Jan 06 - 11:55 AM (#1654888) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Kaleea Can't? Yes I can! I'm doing it aren't I? How about "may not." "I may not smooooooke?" "Correctamundo," replied fire officer Smith as he extinguished the cigarette and the nearby burning kilts of the dancers with one broad swoop of his fire hose. Burning questions, all! |
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24 Jan 06 - 01:11 PM (#1654930) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Jerry Rasmussen I just watched one of my favorite movies last night: Avalon. There's a wonderful scene where a young boy is lectured on the difference between "may" and "can" by his school teacher. He uses "Can" (I go to the bathroom) instead of "may" and is made to stay out in the hall until he knows the difference between the two words. When he doesn't know, his immigrant Grandfather is called to school and is totally bewildered by the difference. Delightful scene. Jerry |
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24 Jan 06 - 02:15 PM (#1654960) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Rasener Weird that. My duaghter always says things like. May you pass me the salt please May you get me the ketchup from the fridge please Ah well at least she says please :-) |
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24 Jan 06 - 07:54 PM (#1655101) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Troll MG. Your "All Asians have bad breath" is not very accurate. The Japanese, or at least the ones I met while living and working in Tokyo, make a fetish of good oral hygene. Anyone with bad breath is quickly set straight. The country is too crowded for any other lifestyle. Those pictures of people being pushed into crowded train cars by uniformed transportation workers? They are true. I've traveled in China, but I didn't notice if they had any hygene problems. troll |
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24 Jan 06 - 08:51 PM (#1655149) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Once Famous I thought that when a Japanese was found to have bad breath he was immediately given a knife and told to use it and go: eeeeeeeeeeeeyahhhhhhhhhhhhhh! No wait. That was what Howard Dean does. |
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25 Jan 06 - 11:20 AM (#1655498) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: GUEST,bbc at work Most Koreans smell of garlic, from a daily diet of kimchee. I remember a Lebanese co-worker from my past who also smelled of garlic from eating hummus regularly. What of it? bbc |
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25 Jan 06 - 03:15 PM (#1655548) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Jerry Rasmussen and did I mention the insidious, invisible "all." You can see its absence in sentences like "Asians have bad breath." (I'm not accusing you of being prejudiced, Martin... although you may well be.. I figure that you find it humorous to get a rise out of people even if you don't believe what you're saying) Some folks, I'm less sure. The other sneaky thing about "all" is that when challenged, the person will admit (under great duress) that there are exceptions and then either say that the exception proves the rule, that there is some truth in every generality, or that you are denying the truth of their statement by bringing up little exceptions. We all know what's going on.. Jeryry |
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27 Jan 06 - 12:50 PM (#1656566) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Wolfgang There's not only the invisible all, you can even use the in principle harmless 'some' to carry prejudices. In logic, 'some' means merely 'at least one' of the group in question, so my example sentence below is beyond any doubt just a true statement of fact, but nevertheless...: Some gypsies are thieves. Does it read like just a random statement of fact? Wolfgang |
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27 Jan 06 - 03:11 PM (#1656635) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Jerry Rasmussen Good point, Wolfgang. Prejudices come in all sorts of disguises. They are hard to root out of ourselves (but much easier to spot in others.) When people make a statement like "Some gypsies are thieves" you wonder what their motivation is for making the statement. It may or may not be prejudiced. I think it's safest to include percentages.. :-) Only 1.3% of gypsies are thieves. What perecentage of any group are thieves. Every group has some. Probably even Mudcat. Thieves of time, maybe. Always nice to see you post, Wolfgang Jerry |
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28 Jan 06 - 11:20 AM (#1657086) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Jerry Rasmussen And another dangerous word: "we." We is a wonderful word most of the time. It says "togetherness" and unity. That can be beautiful. But sometimes it is used to project an image of group approval when there is none. A statement that might not be palatable when made personally can seem to gain stature when it uses that little two letter word. "We" decided.... "we" think..... It's the opposite of "they" are wrong. The "We" and "They" thing. When used wrongly, "We" implies agreement based more on a desire to prove oneself "right," than any common consensus. That's when it can be dangerous... when sentences start out with "we agree..." or "we decided." It's never clear to me who the "we" is, anymore than it is when people claim that "they" said.... If someone says, we voted on this, and the majority of us voted in favor. When people use words like "we," or "they" it's always a warning sign to pay attention to what is really being said. Now If Me and Earl went down to fish in the crick, I don't see anything wrong with saying "We went down. The bigger the "we" claims to be, the more suspicious I get. Especially if there is no way to substantiate it. Sometimes "We" ain't as many folks as someone claims it to be. Sometimes "We" is wee. Jerry |
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28 Jan 06 - 03:44 PM (#1657235) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Amos The core point here, I believe, is erroneous or malicious generalization; the problem with generalities is that there is no way to connect with them, since they represent an unknown number of points. You can't communicate with "they:" (another one for your collection, Jerry) or an "all"; their use is designed, when it is in a negative context, to overhwelm the individual or make him feel outnumbered and undone by a multiplicity that does not, in fact, exist. There is no they there. A |
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29 Jan 06 - 03:39 PM (#1657495) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: Ebbie "The Lord really said to Aaron that he will break Babe Ruth's home run record." (It is also not original to this thread.) Speaking of always, I remember overhearing something when I was a kid that made me laugh. A whiny little brother was urging big sis to do something and said, "We always do that, sometimes." |
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01 Feb 06 - 07:23 AM (#1658889) Subject: RE: BS: When Good Words Do Bad Things From: GUEST VERY GOOD YOU ARE RIGHT |