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02 Feb 06 - 08:52 AM (#1660022) Subject: BS: joining the masons From: GUEST,undecided Hello there - I was wondering if I could ask the wisdom of mudcaters; I was asked if I would like to join the freemasons in the uk; should I accept; what are the pros & conc; most of my friends are anti; any pros out there; what should I do? |
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02 Feb 06 - 09:16 AM (#1660030) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Paul Burke If you're a crawler, join. In return for a bit of posey ceremony, you get the opportunity to network with anyone that matters in your area. If you aren't into sucking up to rich bastards, stay honest. |
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02 Feb 06 - 09:18 AM (#1660031) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Paco Rabanne Join. It's an honour to be asked. Then network away! Worked for me! |
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02 Feb 06 - 09:36 AM (#1660047) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: number 6 A Freemason cannot solicit membership inot the fraternity .... Masons cannot go and ask if you want to join. You have to ask one, to become one. sIx |
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02 Feb 06 - 09:39 AM (#1660050) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: GUEST If you want to be a back scratching bumlicker then fire away otherwise join the rest of humanity who can live without the need of a secret handshake. |
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02 Feb 06 - 09:39 AM (#1660051) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Paco Rabanne True number 6, that is the theory, but in the real world it often happens the other way around. |
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02 Feb 06 - 09:39 AM (#1660052) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: John MacKenzie I was offered and turned it down, I am a member of the Groucho Marx school on this one. Giok |
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02 Feb 06 - 10:13 AM (#1660075) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: GUEST,guest My brother-inlaw joined them and He is a total ass licking egomaniac asshole, and He usually hangs around only those folks who will boost his ego for his own gratification. In reality he is an insecure wimp, but I guess belonging to an exclusive club like this makes him feel more important than the average person who is smarter and more ethical than He is. |
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02 Feb 06 - 10:39 AM (#1660095) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: katlaughing Guest, undecided, If you do a search using "freemasons" you will find many posts by Mudcatters who are either members or have known members. Lots of helpful advice, and, of course, naysayers. My uncle was one and he was one of the most honest, kindest men to ever walk this earth. My sisters and I all became members of Job's Daughters, under his aegis. There is a lot of truth and beauty in the rituals, etc. and it does not have to be about the connections, though why wouldn't one want those, too? Those of like mind often support one another through business, aid and assistance, etc. Listen to what you heart says and go from there... all the best, kat |
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02 Feb 06 - 10:40 AM (#1660097) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Bee-dubya-ell I was once asked to become a mason. I turned the offer down. Standing on a scaffold in the hot sun lifting heavy bricks and concrete blocks just isn't my cup of tea. |
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02 Feb 06 - 11:14 AM (#1660125) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Ron Davies I've heard that they do a lot of good charitable work--as well as probably being the inspiration for Mozart's "Magic Flute" (obviously just the libretto). |
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02 Feb 06 - 11:47 AM (#1660153) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: number 6 I am a Freemason, though I haven't been to lodge in 8 years, I'm certainly not a crawler, nor back scratching bumlicker. Niether was Amadaeus Mozart (yes the magic flute).. of course there are a few that meet those characteristics I'm sure ... but those qualities have nothing in common with Masonry. Those qualities are unfortuantely found in many humans. sIx |
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02 Feb 06 - 11:49 AM (#1660155) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: manitas_at_work You could just join a Morris team! The same sort of networking and charitable work is there. You may have to wear your costume in public but there's no initiation rites or terrible oaths and it's a whole lot cheaper! |
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02 Feb 06 - 12:06 PM (#1660171) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: John MacKenzie And if you're a Catholic you can still take communion if you're a Morris Dancer. G ☺ |
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02 Feb 06 - 12:17 PM (#1660186) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: number 6 You can become a Freemason if your are Catholic, Hindu, Jewish, Muslim or whatever your religion is ... I knew this was coming. The myth came about of Freemasons forbidding Catholics was due to the Catholic church itself ... The Catholic church forbids Catholics from becoming a Mason ... why, because FreeMasonry has been open to all religeons. A criteria in becoming a Freemason is that you beleive in s supreme being albeit God, Yahweh, Mohammid or whatever. sIx |
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02 Feb 06 - 12:18 PM (#1660187) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: number 6 My appologies Giok ... I gotcha there ... good one! G sIx |
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02 Feb 06 - 01:04 PM (#1660231) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: jacqui.c Depends why you want to join and what you think the benefit will be to you. My ex was invited to join - to my knowledge Freemasons do not, in general, advertise their membership so it could be difficult to ask to join, at least in the UK. It basically just seems to be another club, but with more secrecy than normal. They do do charitable works - we asked them to supply a computer to a family with a chronically sick child and they were able to do that. |
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02 Feb 06 - 01:13 PM (#1660241) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Georgiansilver Please check out this website. http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/ |
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02 Feb 06 - 02:10 PM (#1660282) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: number 6 Jacqui ... Britain appears to be more secretive about Freemasonary than over here in Canada and the U.S. ... some Freemasons here have Masonic Symbols on their car ... in Toronto it is very comon to see bumper stickers and licence plate holders advertising "ask one to become one" ... Freemasons are much more open in the U.S. and canada. sIx |
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02 Feb 06 - 02:33 PM (#1660301) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Peace Have been asked three times. Said thanks and no three times. I'm with Giok and Groucho on this. If I needed ceremonies I'd still belong to a church. |
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02 Feb 06 - 02:41 PM (#1660309) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Gervase Generally a harmless bunch - the link from Georgiansilver above is a complete load of lunatic paranoid bunkum, by the way - and greatly into good works in the very dullest, Round Table and Rotarian sense. Surely you'd have more fun playing music of an evening rather than trotting along to a mutual back-scratching session with a bunch of lower middle-class white men. I've been asked a few times, but would rather go to the pub with friends, play music, shoot the breeze or whatever. But for those that have trouble getting a social life together and want some ready-made friends, maybe masonry's the answer. If it is the answer, it must have been a very dull question, though! |
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02 Feb 06 - 02:41 PM (#1660310) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: mack/misophist About Catholics and Masons: my aunt, a devout Catholic, told me my father was excommunicated because he wore his Masonic apron to mass. She says that's because Mason's have 'secrets' they can't talk about in confession. Hence a Mason's confession is considered incomplete so he can't take communion. Makes sense to me, even though I'm neither. |
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02 Feb 06 - 02:57 PM (#1660333) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Alan Day I am a Mason and in fact I am the Organist, but play on my concertina. I have been a member now for over twenty five years,during this time I have never received a favour or given one.If you are interested in joining you ask ,you should not be asked to join.The Freemasons do a lot of good charity work and most Hospices are supported by this organisation. My greetings to fellow members on this site. Al |
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02 Feb 06 - 03:20 PM (#1660351) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: tarheel i am a Freemason too,Alan...i am so good at it that i can look at folks in a crowd and tell who are masons and who are not...if you are a Freemason then you know how to do that too... my grandfather was a Freemason and use to tell me that when he rode the train that he would watch the folks at the next station and know who were Freemason at the depot before he got off the train... greetings to you too,Al and to the other members in here! tar... |
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02 Feb 06 - 04:13 PM (#1660387) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Peace And there is the 'proof positive' as to why I would never be a freemason. |
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02 Feb 06 - 04:15 PM (#1660389) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Cluin Whooooooooo... spooky stuff, kids. |
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02 Feb 06 - 04:51 PM (#1660424) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: number 6 Oh come on Peace ... you'd look cute in one of those aprons ! sIx |
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02 Feb 06 - 05:02 PM (#1660427) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Cluin From the tongue-firmly-crammed-in-cheek department: The Stonecutter's Song (from The Simpsons) Who controls the British crown? Who keeps the metric system down? We do... We do! Who keeps Atlantis off the maps? Who keeps the Martians under wraps? We do... We do! Who holds back the electric car? Who makes Steve Guttenberg a star? We do... We do! Who robs the cave fish of their sight? Who rigs every Oscar night? We do... We do! |
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02 Feb 06 - 07:01 PM (#1660517) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: GUEST,sorefingers "I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent." -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Hopkinson, March 13, 1789 Says all there is to say about such things! And to think some people belive the US was founded by Masons! Phaaaaaaatttttt |
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02 Feb 06 - 10:57 PM (#1660711) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: kendall Only a handful of Presidents have not been Masons. |
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02 Feb 06 - 11:11 PM (#1660727) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: katlaughing Thomas Jefferson was very involved in the early days of Rosicrucians in America; of course, we call ourselves "walking questions marks" being quite capable of thinking for ourselves. tarheel, you have got to be the most ultra-conservative and contentious Mason I've ever known of... |
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03 Feb 06 - 03:39 AM (#1660829) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: John MacKenzie Ah Kendall I would join too if I was looking for more votes, and of course I would not keep it too quiet that I had done so. "Hello Mr Rich possible party donor, let me squeeze the knuckle of your hand!" Giok |
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03 Feb 06 - 03:59 AM (#1660837) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: GUEST,Boab ---And I'd share a word, Alan and tarheel---- |
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03 Feb 06 - 06:19 AM (#1660900) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Big Al Whittle ask yourself, did the masons do Mozart any good? not one of them got him a gig when he was hard up. when he was pissed he wrote that bloody tune about the apron that fiddle players are terminally addicted to. no wonder Salieri did him in. |
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03 Feb 06 - 07:12 AM (#1660927) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: GUEST,Joe Soap I've been a Freemason for over twenty years in the UK, and like others here have experienced a wide variety of different types. It IS a tenet of the society that members should not seek to exploit their membership for gain and that too has been my experience. But folks do like to deal with like folks whether it's the local Morris team, golf club, Am Dram society where they meet or not. As has been said above, hman nature is the issue and there is good and bad inn all. Freemasons in this country DO give vast amounts of money (as well as time) to charities - non-masonic ones and international disaster relief funds too. For some members it is merely a dining club. For others who take the teachings and allegorical rituals seriously it adds a philosophical and moral dimension which many find lacking in modern life. Others enjoy being on committees and organising events. For me, one of the best things was typified by the time when I visited another lodge and at the dinner afterwards sat and talked with 4 others...one a High Court Judge, one a window cleaner, one a business executive, one a nurse. There are few opportunities where one may get to meet people from such diverse backgrounds - and we all benefitted from each other's perspectives on life. I've also seen younger men transformed over a number of years, growing in confidence as they take on more Masonic work. People who could never have imagined themselves public speaking, organising events and so on.They had clearly grown in confidence, understanding and mutual respect. I have no hesitation in recommending you join. Joe Soap |
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03 Feb 06 - 08:52 AM (#1660961) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: GUEST I think you should join. Then you could rise above that bunch of "lower middle class white men". Maybe even become as special as Gervase. |
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03 Feb 06 - 08:56 AM (#1660965) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: number 6 Well said Joe Soap. Unfortuantely, as is evident in the GUEST's post above, ignorance prevails here in the Mudcat. sIx |
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03 Feb 06 - 10:39 AM (#1661050) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: frogprince Speaking from the U.S.: I'm not a mason, and personally have never gotten interested in becoming one. Of the signers of our Declaration of Independence, one or two may not have been masons; it doesn't seem to have done to much harm. My father-in-law, and at least two close friends and a number of our broader circle, are masons. None of those I know at all well are people who need anyone to tell them what they think or what to do; it's just one part of their social lives and their inclination to charitable involvement. As for Tarheels mystic ability to spot another mason accross the desert wastes...pffffft.(Does it work something like "gaydar?) |
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04 Feb 06 - 01:15 AM (#1661357) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Bonecruncher GUEST, undecided Although you might have been approached regarding your interest in Freemasonry, the basic tenet is that you must ASK to join. Masonry in UK is purely a system of morality, veiled in allegory, and illustrated by symbols. It is not a secret society as it is well known that the movement exists. It is a society WITH secrets, in exactly the same way as any family has its own secrets that are not discussed outside of the family. Much of the criticism from outsiders is due to misunderstanding of the principle that a Mason is bound to serve a friend or Brother in time of need before the interests of non-Masons. However, there is nothing in Masonry which is incompatible with your civil, moral or religious duties. Masonry is a meeting together of people with similar interests, in the same way as a golf or cricket club or any other similar club you would like to name. Much of the work of Freemasonry is charitable, for which Masons generally give out of their own pockets. They do not usually raise money by donations from the public. Certainly, Freemasons have their own charities which they fully support such as rest homes for elderly Masons and their wives. This is similar to many other bodies such as Trade Unions. Much of the charity donations is given to Churches, Hospitals, medical schools and universities, buying and maintaining hospital equipment such as scanners, and many local activities. A quick summation of Freemasonry is that it will cost you a lot of money but make you a lot of friends. Seek and you will find. ASK and you will be given. Knock and it will be opened unto you. Greeting to other Masons on this site and I wish you well. Colyn. |
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04 Feb 06 - 04:03 AM (#1661374) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Les in Chorlton So, a society with secrets complains that we outsiders do not really understand it? |
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04 Feb 06 - 05:26 AM (#1661380) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Teribus I have never understood why anyone would want to become a member of a 'secret society' |
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04 Feb 06 - 05:29 AM (#1661381) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Dave Hanson What confuses me is WHY people feel the need to join a secret society, anyone can do good deeds, anywhere, anytime, so don't give us that crap about not getting any personal benefit. eric |
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04 Feb 06 - 08:35 AM (#1661392) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Alan Day I am interested in the tradition of Masonary.Some of the nicest blokes I have ever met have been Masons.A Society with secrets is not the same as a secret society.The Moustrap still showing after many years has secrets.Would you want to go and see the Moustrap if the killer`s name was put up on a placard outside? Why should joining members be told the full ceremonies prior to the performance it would spoil the ceremony for them.It is in books if they really wanted to know. I cannot understand why some people from a position of complete ignorance,become an authority on a subject they know nothing about. If you are interested in tradition and Masonary why not join.If you know nothing about the subject, why make up things which are totally untrue. Al ps Good meeting last night. |
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04 Feb 06 - 12:39 PM (#1661411) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Les in Chorlton It has a rather conservative image or is that its substance? Will the Masons be having a big campaigne to convince us that they are really just rather shy socialists who are secretly working for the redistribution of power and wealth? |
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04 Feb 06 - 12:59 PM (#1661416) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: GUEST,sorefingers Hmmm seems to me that sometimes positions of authority are given to Mason brothers precisely because the individual is as thick as a short plank, and will do as bid! Some of us, like Mr Jefferson, believe it is the very last thing before senility or stupidity takes over. IOW it shews to me a weak character developed throungh low of failing intelligence; for example, doddering old age - very common to see old foagies with the symbols on their cars! Often occult practice is mixed with the devils craft in creating such things as familiars and the like with which - usualy old farts - try to control other people. A sad and retarded thing, in this the information age, where we can without control read about/ see and study whatever we like; moreover, unless the evil craft wishes to descend down to the level of the Chinese and control the Intenet, that trend will grow and their society, secret or otherwise, will wither. So joining them is like turning off - if your's works and you could usefully still ask a real question, remain among the living. But perhaps, you lately fell foul of some Nigerian scam? or some other con that caused you to doubt your own brain? That's not unusual if you are old. Joining the Masons may make you feel better but it won't save you from con-men, instead you will develop a new outlook on other minorities from your own. In sort of slangy world, Masons are old farts who are scared to go down town in case some black person should show them to be the senile old farts, basicaly dumber than the dog, that they really are. |
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04 Feb 06 - 01:16 PM (#1661420) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Les in Chorlton Nicely understated sorefingers. But I bet black Masons will be claimed as I type. |
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04 Feb 06 - 04:02 PM (#1661537) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: number 6 Teribus ... "I have never understood why anyone would want to become a member of a 'secret society'" maybe they would to 'learn the secrets' sIx |
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04 Feb 06 - 04:16 PM (#1661551) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Cluin Join up. If you don't like what goes on, then quit. |
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04 Feb 06 - 04:21 PM (#1661559) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Alan Day You prove my point sorefingers. You have not got a clue what you are talking about. Masonary is open to all race and religion and all walks of life .We have young old in our Lodge. Why not investigate a subject before trying to write about it. Al |
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04 Feb 06 - 05:19 PM (#1661633) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: GUEST "It is a society WITH secrets, in exactly the same way as any family has its own secrets that are not discussed outside of the family." When a family has secrets, the secret is often about abuse. The daughters of Masons are quite often tightly controlled by their fathers and seem to have a basic personality flaw. Could this be the reason? Secrets are unhealthy. It leads to all kinds of speculation. |
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04 Feb 06 - 06:02 PM (#1661692) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Alan Day Guest,What a load of rubbish !! Al |
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04 Feb 06 - 06:14 PM (#1661707) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Cluin Secrets are unhealthy. It leads to all kinds of speculation. When your mind's in the gutter, it's hard to see over the curb, isn't it? I know lots of Mason's daughters and only one of them had a basic personality flaw. Luckily, we broke up before things got too serious. |
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04 Feb 06 - 06:57 PM (#1661738) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: GUEST,Al Old Pal If you want Lucifer as your God, are into sorcery, divination, telepathic communion with other people, entities and even the dead. want to explore the mind over matter alchemical magic (32nd degree) the manipulation of geometrical non-local time and events and are into UFO olgy, fallen angel entities, the new world order, the age of aquarius (world peace) the re-appearance of "the christ" (anti-christ) Be inducted into a mystery school, and become a part of the great white brotherhood (satanic entities that guide and control human events and people) here is your group: check out the United Nations at lucistrust.com former lucifer publishing company. and www.maitreya.com. Benjamin Creme etc. Check out Alice bailey writings on Occult meditations channeled through vaious masters in the spirit plain Dhwal Khal, Confusicious, Madame Blatvatsky etc. As well as the Ascended Masters. the Urantia Book etc. the various rays, points of light and idigo children its all the same thing, and it is very very real. Of course the ignorant who haven't experienced this will say that the above writing is poppycock. Be I have fisrt hand knowledge having had the 6th sense myself, and having had channeling many of these spirit beings myself through thousand of pages of writings, There was something definite beyond myself, intervening in my mind and into the nature world. It has to deal with the universal mind and the infinite intelligents. it was more vivid than I care to admit. Lucifer is the intelligents behind it all. He is God ,and is inseperable from God. But beware he is an entity and the God of masonry, the intellectual creativity beyond all non-local thought. Mason is referred to as a "craft" you are inducted into the "craft", but it is witchcraft pure and simple Just look in the dictionary for the term "withcraft" then get Albert Pike's Book: Morals and Dogma and start comparing. then after that. Reach your own conclusion. |
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04 Feb 06 - 07:44 PM (#1661760) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: katlaughing What a load of shite...believe in that shite and you prove you are unable to think for yourself, gullible to a degree of stupidity AND full of fear. Oh, yeah, and you believe everything you read on the Internet. I feel sorry for people like Guest 5:19p. Unfounded, non-researched, lies upon lies of those you fear. It's sad, really sad. katSRC |
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04 Feb 06 - 09:23 PM (#1661838) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Cluin Bibbity bobbity fuckin' boo! |
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04 Feb 06 - 09:39 PM (#1661858) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: GUEST,Richard H "Join up. If you don't like what goes on, then quit." Can you in fact quit? And what would be the consequences of revealing the "secrets"? |
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04 Feb 06 - 10:32 PM (#1661888) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: GUEST,dianavan I think the Masons, Eastern Stars, Rainbow Girls, Jobs daughter, etc. are just a bunch of folks who want to feel like they are part of an exclusive club. Basically, a way for losers to feel important. What is their purpose? I know they like the circus and they like to drive little cars but those are the big wigs and why do they wear those funny hats? Do they like pretending to be Turks or something? What do the little people do besides carry around those secrets and feel like they are somehow connected to something mysterious and extremely important. When the Rainbow girls or Jobs Daughters in my school were ready for initiation, they liked to let everyone know but they wouldn't tell us what it was all about. I don't think they actually knew. I figured it was something like a debutante ball for middle class schmucks. |
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04 Feb 06 - 10:32 PM (#1661889) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: akenaton I suppose I'm the only true stonemason here, and my area in the West of Scotland is a strong Masonic region. Dont know about the US, but here the "brotherhood" is run by well off business people, who recruit brainless oiks from the working classes to do the donkey work. They are supposed to be apolitical, but in reality promote an extreme right wing viewpoint ...dont join if you hold socialist views!! In Scotland, there is an added more sinister dimension, the Masons being very strongly linked to the Orange Order, another rightwing anti Catholic organisation. Many Masons are also members of the Orange Order. Although I am a mason, have lived all my life in this area and am of reasonably good character, I have never been proposed for membership. I am extremely proud of this fact!!....Ake |
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04 Feb 06 - 11:37 PM (#1661910) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Joe Offer Catholics are still not supposed to join the Masons, although I don't know anybody who remembers or understands the reasons why. Freemasonry is no longer mentioned by name in the latest Code of Canon Law (1983), but more recent Catholic Church documents have stated that Catholics are still not supposed to join the Masons. But, since the rule is not well known and its rationale is not easy to understand, a few Catholics join the Masons and nobody seems to mind. The Knights of Columbus were organized in the U.S. for Catholic men who needed a fraternal organization like the Masons. I always thought of the Knights as Catholic Good Old Boys who drank beer and smoked cigars and watched a lot of sports on TV, and ran the parish bingo games. Do Masons do beer and cigars and TV sports and bingo? The nuns taught us that we weren't supposed to join the Masons because they were a "secret organization" and had "secret rituals." I went to a Knights of Columbus meeting once because they invited me to speak to them and ask for money from the Cub Scouts. When I got there, the Grand Knight kicked me out because I was not a member, and their meetings were secret. So much for the nuns' theory about secret organizations. Besides, I never liked cigars. -Joe Offer- |
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05 Feb 06 - 12:00 AM (#1661919) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: frogprince Somewhere over the years a bogus, macabre alleged oath of the Knights of Columbus was read into the congressional record. Forty years ago a schoolmate got ahold of a nice "Christian" tract which quoted that "oath" to show that the Knights are a heinous, murderous, secret order. It had to be true; it's right there in the congressional record. I would in no way be surprised if the same source that printed that tract also propagated a lot of the psychotic hogwash about the masons that Sorefingers is so well versed in. |
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05 Feb 06 - 03:48 AM (#1661962) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: GUEST,student http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/ was forwarded as a site to visit above and I did. Very intresting to actually find out about what is going on in the world but is it all true? |
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05 Feb 06 - 03:50 AM (#1661963) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: GUEST,sorefingers Well gee Mr Day et al, I did not expect such a bounce! For the record I support their right to be Masons, but still insist that I have the right to express my opinion, in this case, about the state of decline of Masonism, and it is declining. Maybe all that posing and such makes people nervous so they don't want to join? Perhaps if the Lodges would offer a free beer night every weekend and folks would simply join up for fun? But somebody already nailed it down, they can't do that because certain members can't hold their beer - just like Orange Order marches always involve violence. |
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05 Feb 06 - 04:07 AM (#1661966) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Big Al Whittle then there was Jack the Ripper....did they find him help to face his considerable psycho sexual problems, no they made him a hit man for Queen Victoria........... I suppose if you enjoy schlepping around with serial killers and listening to the The Magic Flute or you want to be Chief Constable......... |
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05 Feb 06 - 04:37 AM (#1661979) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: GUEST,DB I wonder if the Masons are beginning to fade out? In my home town of Peterborough, UK, there was (is!) an odd building that always intrigued me. It is not far from the City centre, on the corner of Lincoln Road and North Street. This building is partly made of brick and partly of stone and quite unlike the other buildings around it. Yet, in spite of its distinctiveness, no-one ever mentioned it or even seemed to acknowledge that it was there - at least not while I was growing up in Peterborough (in the 50s and 60s). Eventually, someone (I forget who) told me that the building was a Freemasons' Hall. I think that there may be a Masonic set square symbol, up near the eaves, but perhaps I imagined it (?) I don't get back to P'boro all that often, these days - so imagine my shock, on my last visit, to discover that the world's (at least my world's) most mysterious building had been turned into an Italian Restaurant! |
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05 Feb 06 - 04:40 AM (#1661982) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: GUEST There's more bollocks talked about masonry than perhaps any other organisation. And the more vituperative the language of the opposers, the less clue they seem to have about it. There are lots of tired old stereotypes which get trotted out time after time by these ignoramuses (ignorami?) and it's a bit frustrating for those who do actually know what it's all about. But believe me, masons have heard all of that tired old stuff countless times before and have only derision for the knockers. Sure, anyone is entitled to their opinion, but the best opinions are those that bear some relation to what is going on in the real world, rather than just repeating rhetoric that you happened upon because other ignorant people said it before you. And just to clear up one point - traditionally, outsiders had to ask to join but in the UK a declaration was made some years ago to suggest that masons should take the initiative and encourage suitable people to join. So, GUEST Undecided, if you were asked to join it was because whoever asked you must have thought you would be suitable for masonry, and it probably suitable for you. Ignore all the crap the outsiders talk about having to scratch backs and so on, and if that is your only reason for hesitation you should probably join. Let us know what you decide. yours, s & f |
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05 Feb 06 - 04:42 AM (#1661983) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: harmony Masons are harmless. They are also funny. Constumes and all, human beings are primitive still. We place such importance on a chalice, a robe, a colour, etc. Still, you may as well join the masons as much as any other group. |
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05 Feb 06 - 05:29 AM (#1661994) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Big Al Whittle mind you, you need to be careful you don't end up tossed down a crevasse by savage natives like Sean Connery in that film with Michael Caine when they thought he was the reincarnation of Alexander the Great. If you're thinking of going anywhere where there are savage natives, it's worth careful consideration. they'll see you and go, hello here's another one......just stand on this bridge mate! you'd better learn The Minstrel Boy just in case. |
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05 Feb 06 - 08:28 AM (#1662063) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: bobad Me, I'd rather belong to the International Order of Mudcatters. |
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05 Feb 06 - 08:42 AM (#1662071) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: GUEST,A witch Lucifer is the intelligents behind it all. He is God ,and is inseperable from God. But beware he is an entity and the God of masonry, the intellectual creativity beyond all non-local thought. Mason is referred to as a "craft" you are inducted into the "craft", but it is witchcraft pure and simple Just look in the dictionary for the term "withcraft" Well, GUEST,Al Old Pal, I don't need to know anything about freemasonry (and I don't) to know you are talking rubbish. For a start, if you knew what you were talking about, you would know that witchcraft has NOTHING to do with Lucifer/the Devil. There is a common misconception that witchcraft is devil worship. Not so. We don't even recognise the devil as an entity - let alone worship him/her/it. In fact, we don't worship entities at all. |
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05 Feb 06 - 10:11 AM (#1662113) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: number 6 "Me, I'd rather belong to the International Order of Mudcatters." Good one Bobad ... guaranteed good 'ol donnybrook or saloon brawl at every meeting! sIx |
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05 Feb 06 - 11:25 AM (#1662143) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: GUEST,Christian So Guest witch! If all good comes from God and all evil from lucifer, where does witchcraft stand in the whole picture of things? |
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05 Feb 06 - 01:02 PM (#1662148) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: GUEST,sorefingers GUEST who signs off as s & f, you very well illustrate what is so backwards about the Masonic Order. Instead of identifying yourself to all, like Mr. Day did and getting the repect due, your's sets a tone of underhandedness. See you ain't that clever after all! |
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05 Feb 06 - 02:11 PM (#1662228) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: GUEST "If all good comes from God and all evil from lucifer..." Maybe its not that way at all, Guest, Christian. Maybe all good comes from God and all evil comes from human beings. It might also be that God has a dual nature and that there is no Lucifer at all. There are lots of possibilities that cannot be explained by dogma. |
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05 Feb 06 - 02:48 PM (#1662263) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Manitas_at_home It might also be that witches don't subscribe to dualism ie there is a good god and an evil god in constant combat. Modern witchcraft doesn't need to 'fit into the whole picture of things' as it's in another frame, a picture of things as seen by another artist. Don't fall into the trap of confusing witches or neo-pagans with Satanists. Satanists worship Satan and witches don't even acknowledge his existence. |
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05 Feb 06 - 02:51 PM (#1662268) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: number 6 I knew this thread was going to drift to the nonsnense it has. Oh well. sIx |
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05 Feb 06 - 04:39 PM (#1662349) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Liz the Squeak Today's useless information. The Tolpuddle Martyrs were transported for a number of years for "taking an oath against the king" - that oath being one to unite and fight against the landlords who were starving them and their families with low wages, extortionate rents and uneven distribution of food. The oath was not made in the name of the King and on the pretence that 'who is not for us is against us', they were found guilty of treason and transported to Australia. Someone pointed out that the king (one of the Georges) was a Freemason - and Freemasonry did not mention the monarch either. As the king was guilty of taking an oath against himself, he was in a bit of a pickle. Rather than have himself transported, he had the 'Martyrs' pardoned and several of them made it back home to Dorset. LTS |
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05 Feb 06 - 07:13 PM (#1662456) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: GUEST "GUEST who signs off as s & f, you very well illustrate what is so backwards about the Masonic Order. Instead of identifying yourself to all, like Mr. Day did and getting the repect due, your's sets a tone of underhandedness. See you ain't that clever after all!" This seems to be saying that someone who signs as "s&f" has less merit (because of the signature, not the reasoning) than someone who signs as "guest, sorefingers" and less merit than someone who signs as "Alan Day" (probably a pseudonym) ....... ......does anybody have any idea what this fucking knobhead is on about? |
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05 Feb 06 - 08:28 PM (#1662572) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: frogprince Sorefingers, I owe you an apology; while I don't agree with you as to our impressions of masons, I had your post confused with the virulent trash posted by "Al Old Pal". |
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06 Feb 06 - 08:34 AM (#1662752) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: GUEST,A witch If all good comes from God and all evil from lucifer GUEST, Christian - you are making the assumption that everyone accepts this as a fact. The idea of God vs Lucifer means nothing to someone who does not accept their existence as separate entities. Many people don't, as pointed out by GUEST, 2.11pm and Manitas. It is only one way of viewing the world. Another way of viewing the world, and one which I subscribe to, is that God/The Goddess/Great Spirit - whatever you choose to call the life force, is in balance, with many positive and negative elements interacting, and all affecting each other. This is reflected in everything that exists, including each person, so we are each a microcosm of the whole universe. If you like, you could say that "God" is in you. Because we are interconnected, it means that whatever one does has an effect on other beings and one's surroundings, and it is with this idea in mind that a pagan lives his/her life - to enjoy this lovely planet we call home, while respecting it and causing as little harm as possible, and to respect and love the other beings that are on the journey with us, and where possible, to add something positive while one is here this time around. "Do as you will, but harm none." As I said, I know nothing about the masons, but I felt a need to correct misinformation where I see it. Unfortunately, I fear that what I say won't make much difference to GUEST,Al Old Pal. He/she comes across to me as an ignorant nutter. |
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06 Feb 06 - 11:38 AM (#1662858) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Janie Although through the time of my grandparents, both sides of my family were Masons (in the USA), I don't know anything about them. I guess I assume that today they are like a social club--the Moose Lodge or the Elks, something like that. I do know it was important to both of my grandfathers and grandmothers and their Eastern Star amd Masonic rings were mentioned in their wills. At the turn of century, in places like rural West Virginia and Kentucky in the USA, the Masons were major providers of needed social services, at least to other Masons. My grandmother was pretty much raised in a Masonic Orphanage. My dirt-poor great grandfather spent his last years in a masonic nursing home. Not equating them with Hamas, but I guess doing 'good works' does not preclude also doing 'bad works.' Regardless of what others may think, Undecided, what would be the pros and cons personally for you to join? Janie |
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06 Feb 06 - 11:45 AM (#1662863) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: katlaughing Nothing is so firmly believed, as what we least know -- Michel de Montaigne |
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06 Feb 06 - 12:02 PM (#1662870) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: GUEST,number 6 "Not equating them with Hamas" oh no Janie ... why did you have to go and post that!!! Now this will open up the flood gates for some real wacko posting. sIx |
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06 Feb 06 - 12:06 PM (#1662875) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Janie Yikes, 6! I am a natural born idjit!!! Sorry. Janie |
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06 Feb 06 - 07:45 PM (#1663272) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: GUEST,The Devil "Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: GUEST Date: 05 Feb 06 - 07:13 PM "GUEST who signs off as s & f, you very well illustrate what is so backwards about the Masonic Order. Instead of identifying yourself to all, like Mr. Day did and getting the repect due, your's sets a tone of underhandedness. See you ain't that clever after all!" This seems to be saying that someone who signs as "s&f" has less merit (because of the signature, not the reasoning) than someone who signs as "guest, sorefingers" and less merit than someone who signs as "Alan Day" (probably a pseudonym) ....... ......does anybody have any idea what this fucking knobhead is on about?" You are givinG my slaves (Masonic Zombies) a baD name, for penance stand on your head in the corner for a week! |
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06 Feb 06 - 07:52 PM (#1663281) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Bonecruncher Guest, undecided. Please ignore the ridiculous answers from so many posters above who obviously have no direct knowledge of the Order. Also please ignore the obvious US posters as US Masonry in general is not recognised by the UK Grand Lodges. Please take the timie to visit www.grandlodge-england.org (sorry, I can't the blue clicky thing) and you will find a greaat deal of information. You can also book a guided tour round Grand Lodge, Great Queen Street, London, if you are so inclined. Colyn. |
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07 Feb 06 - 06:10 AM (#1663617) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: GUEST,Undecided Many thanks Mudcatters - I thought you'd all come up with a lively debate I suppose on reflection, I wasn't directly asked - I was asked if I'd ever thought of becoming a freemason - and then it was added - I think you would fit in well I don't really hold that the masons are as evil as some contributors imagine - they seem a very charitable lot although a touch too secret I agree mostly with Gervase - I enjoy my music and any spare time I have should be doing that - I am very fortunate in life so I don't really need any help either financially or socially I'll probably say no |
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07 Feb 06 - 07:09 AM (#1663646) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Ron Davies Anybody who reads carefully--not a widespread trait, it appears--will note that nobody has claimed Mozart was a Mason--only that the libretto for the Magic Flute was possibly inspired by Masonry. As I recall, nobody has claimed Mozart wrote that libretto. |
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07 Feb 06 - 08:33 AM (#1663718) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: GUEST,number 6 Amadaeus Mozart was a Mason. |
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07 Feb 06 - 08:44 AM (#1663727) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: GUEST,Another Witch Lucifer is the god of light and not the devil. |
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07 Feb 06 - 08:54 AM (#1663738) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Big Al Whittle that's right, it was me who persuaded him. I said Wolfgang - this Mason name, it doesn't work. You sound like a Jewish comedian. Call yourself Mozart - its more showbiz. he owes it all to me. |
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07 Feb 06 - 09:02 AM (#1663745) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Gervase ... but the libretto was by da Ponte - thankfully, because he was a far better wordsmith than Mozart. |
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07 Feb 06 - 09:28 AM (#1663766) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: GUEST The ones (UK)that I met seemed like a very nice bunch of people. Quite upfront about their membership, and socially very welcoming. They seem very focused on their projects, and very honest in their approach. I liked them a lot. |
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07 Feb 06 - 10:13 AM (#1663804) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: manitas_at_work In legend Lucifer was the name of the archangel who challenged God and fell from heaven becoming the Devil. |
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07 Feb 06 - 10:23 AM (#1663819) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: akenaton The poet Robert Burns was also a freemason. But the oranisation to which Burns belonged was far removed from the Freemasonry of today. I know quite a lot about it, as two of my uncles were members. They joined "out of curiosity", but after a while stopped attending meetings. They found the hierarchic set up, patronising and the rituals foolish mumbo-jumbo. As has been said before, its a sectarain social club for businessmen, with the agenda of promoting market "values" among the citizens of Mugsborough....Ake |
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07 Feb 06 - 10:29 AM (#1663822) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: katlaughing From a review of this book by Dutch theologian Tjeu van den Berk,study of Mozart's opera The Magic Flute from a Jungian and alchemical point of view: Mozart held exactly the same view of alchemy. He belonged to a branch of the Freemasons closely linked to the Rosicrucians. Both spiritual and practical alchemy flourished in Vienna towards the end of the eighteenth century. Around the year 1780 an English visitor estimated that Vienna counted some 3000 practising alchemists. And, for more scholarly examples of his Masonic and Rosicrucian ties, see the synopsis of this book, which includes: Appendix II is a photo reproduction and translation of the complete article "Ueber die Mysterien der Aegyptier", written by the Master of one of the most important and active Masonic lodges in Vienna in the 1780's, Ignaz von Born. It is said to have inspired some of the plot and detail in The Magic Flute. According to other sources Mozart attended the same Masonic Lodge as Haydn. I have had the privilege of seeing the Charter for the Masonic Lodge in Northampton, Massachusetts which contains the signatures of its founding members, including Lafayette. kat |
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07 Feb 06 - 11:33 AM (#1663873) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: number 6 "As has been said before, its a sectarain social club for businessmen, with the agenda of promoting market "values" among the citizens of Mugsborough" And the city of Mugsborough has done quite well I hear! sIx |
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09 Feb 06 - 03:18 PM (#1665409) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Alan Day Sorry I missed the last part of this discussion as I was in Hospital (not a Masonic one).Firstly I am not hiding behind a false name,if I want to write about a subject then I prefer people to know who they are writing back to and visa versa. I agree that Masonary in general in the Uk is on the decline and the only way is for lodges to merge.I am in a very strong lodge where our membership is going up and I would like to add with young members who are enthusiastic and enjoy what Masonary has to offer. I will leave this discussion with a joke taken from a Masonic Website which I hope other Masons will enjoy Murderer to the Hangman I hate Masons Why? Well I am sure the Policeman who arrested me was a Mason The Judge who tried me I am positive was a Mason The Jury were definitely Masons My Jailer I bet he is a Mason Have you finished? Yes Then step off with your left foot !! Al |
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09 Feb 06 - 04:05 PM (#1665436) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Jimmy C I am not a mason, and I know very little about them except they do a lot of charity work for the needy. I have some friends who are masons and they all appear to be involved in a lot of community events all with a selected cgharity in mind, whether it be The Childrens' Hospital, Cancer Centres, Arthritis society etc. There may be some secrets involved at their meetings but I imagine it is nothing too significant or evil. I am however a member of the Knights of Columbus and was very surprised at Joe's remarks about being thrown out of a meeting. I have never heard of this happening anywhere before this, in fact we have had guest speakers at our meetings and they do not have to be members. They are invited in when the meeting has started and they are given a time-frame to say their piece, then they leave,and the meeting continues. So Joe , please accept my apologies because it should not have happened. BTW, there are a few chemotherapy stations and a beautiful glass stained window in the onconoly department of our local hospital, all bought and paid for as a joint venture between the Knights and the Masons. One of our previous mayors was a mason and always attended any function of the knights, especially the St. Patricks's Night concert. I had the pleasure of accompanying him when he got up to sing. All done in an atmosphere of friendship and a dedication to charitable works, so do not believe everything you read and or hear. There is a lot of behind the scenes charitable work that is not made public or even reported, all thanks to the Knights and/or the Masons. |
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10 Feb 06 - 02:43 AM (#1665813) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: GUEST well ride a goat backwards |
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10 Feb 06 - 02:44 AM (#1665814) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: GUEST,Goat king NOT me, matey! |
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10 Feb 06 - 07:55 PM (#1666476) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Big Al Whittle that Mozart...... good banjo player - Eine Kleine Nacht Breakdown, Marriage of Figaro Backstep, Duelling Cosi Fan Tuti's I bet he tried walking into the Ryman doing his funny handshake and a trouser leg rolled up saying any chance of a gig, on the knees of the mother....? but I know for a fact, he never played The Opry. |
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17 Feb 06 - 02:04 AM (#1670825) Subject: BS: joining the masons From: GUEST,Brian Swanson i think that if there was a group doing something good out there that they would have the right to do things which were seen by some people as "strange" however gods people have always been "strange" and these times that we live in are "strange" i have always been interested in masonry, unfortunatly my family will dissown me if i ever join, pretty much they look at masons as they do mormons, "join and your out, and now that i am 21 i feel like i actually have an opportunity, i almost attempted some sort of contact with a temple at 18 until i found out that sometimes you need to be 21. my email is alienne0@yahoo.com |
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17 Feb 06 - 02:09 AM (#1670827) Subject: BS: joining the masons From: GUEST,Brian Swanson I mean does my dad have to be a Freemason in order for me to ever be able to enter? |
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17 Feb 06 - 03:53 AM (#1670862) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: akenaton Try life first!! |
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17 Feb 06 - 04:35 AM (#1670871) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Alan Day No Brian, Masonary is free to all who want to join ,providing you do not have a criminal record and have a belief in a supreme being.Many sons of Masons do join, but it is certainly not a requirement.It is open to anyone rich or poor and you give to charity what you can afford without detrement to your wife and family.If you are interested in joining contact your local provincial branch and they will put you in touch with a Lodge near to you, or if you know a Mason tell him that you are interested in joining.You will be expected to have an interview to ensure you are a fit and proper person to be a Mason and if accepted will be asked for a joining fee. If you are a business man and you expect that it will open doors for you forget it.More business is done over a pint in the pub than in Masonic Lodges An earlier poster said that the rule has now changed and that a Mason can ask someone if they would like to join,I forgot this new ruling and I apologise for my error. Al |
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17 Feb 06 - 04:57 AM (#1670877) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: GUEST,J C If I had the opportunity I wouldn't hesitate joining the masons - I understand that they hold the secret of opening the ******* Mudcat Forum Page at first attempt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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17 Feb 06 - 03:44 PM (#1671369) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: DougR My Dad was a Mason and a finer, more considerate man of others I never knew. I'm not a joiner myself (of anything)but if the notion strikes you, do it. One might consider the critics who have posted on this thread might be a bit pissed that they haven't been asked to join. DougR |
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17 Feb 06 - 03:52 PM (#1671374) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: akenaton Doug....As possibly the only stonemason on mudcat, I am extremely proud that i have been deemed unsuitable to be proposed for membership of the Freemasons.....Ake |
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17 Feb 06 - 05:50 PM (#1671441) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Peter K (Fionn) One apologist above said: "But folks do like to deal with like folks whether it's the local Morris team, golf club, Am Dram society where they meet or not." And this goes to the heart of it. Masonry in the UK remains, on the whole, secretive (unlike morris teams and the like) and thus it is possible for jobs, lucrative contracts or whatever to be steered towards fellow brethren without this interest being known or declared. A "club within a club" is a parasite on the main body, as is a political party that operates within another political party. UK masonry is a "society within society," and is just as insidious. All credit to those who have foregone the privileges and dubious benefits of membership in order to fight against it - sometimes successfully, hence the declining membership. But as I might be labouring under some misunderstandings here, perhaps I could apply to Alan or one of the other UK freemasons here for membership, so that in future I can speak with authority. (Just a detail, Alan, but how will you establish whether I have a criminal record?) Q: Guest Richard H asked what the consequences would be of revealing the secrets. A: TTOBTR* I'm afraid. *Tongue torn out by the roots |
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17 Feb 06 - 06:32 PM (#1671470) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Alan Day It has been said Peter that the secrets are readily available from books and you have taken great delight in stating a traditional penalty without knowing the basis for the statement and what it is all about.I have been in Masonary for over twenty five years I have not found a society within a society otherwise I would not still be a member.There are rotten apples in every box however and do slip through.A lot of blame can be placed on Grand Lodge (the Headquarters)for not publically explaining in the past what Masonary is about and the fine work they do for charity.This has changed in the last few years and open days and open discussions are now taking place.If there is one near you Peter go along so that you can base your argument on facts. Al |
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17 Feb 06 - 07:12 PM (#1671499) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Peter K (Fionn) I said "a society within society," Alan, and that is what freemasonry plainly is - and bound by oath, to boot. One does not need to "go along" to recognise that simple fact. Apart from my reference to your "traditional penalty," which I made with my own tongue in my cheek, what did I say that was not based on fact? Indeed you seem to be acknowledging the truth of my comments with your readyness to put the blame on "rotten apples." Oh, and on the leadership. It seems that there are no lodges hereabouts in north Nottinghamshire. At least, I've not managed to find anything in Yellow Pages. Where else might they be listed? |
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17 Feb 06 - 09:25 PM (#1671608) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Bonecruncher Peter K (Fionn) It is unlikely that you will find Masonic Lodges listed in Yellow Pages, but try under Masonic Halls in your local phone book. As most halls are only open at the times of meetings very few of them have someone to answer the phone. Please take the timie to visit www.grandlodge-england.org (sorry, I can't the blue clicky thing) and you will find a greaat deal of information. Certainly they will put you in touch with your local Lodge. You can also book a guided tour round Grand Lodge, Great Queen Street, London, if you are so inclined. Colyn. |
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18 Feb 06 - 03:54 AM (#1671740) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Manitas_at_home EFDSS is a society within society! You can't stop people clubbing together for various reasons from networking to tiddlywinks, from your local Rotary, Lions or WI to the totem societies of the Tlingit and Salish. Outlaw them or disbar members from public office and they really will go underground. |
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18 Feb 06 - 05:38 AM (#1671791) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Jeanie As chance would have it, an article on Women Masons in the UK appeared in yesterday's "Guardian" newspaper. The full text is to be found HERE and it makes very interesting reading. I had always thought is was an all-male preserve, but apparently Freemasonry has been formally practised by women in their own lodges in the UK since 1913, but this was only made publicly known when the more open policy was adopted by Masons in general in the mid 1990s. There are apparently around 10,000 female masons in the UK. This news was a revelation to me - but, from talking about this article with my daughter, it appears she has been under an even greater misapprehension about the Masons and their "secrets". When she was a lot younger she had heard me say that Masons roll up one trouser leg. She had also heard about the old north country "sport" of "ferret legging" (where men tie up the bottoms of their trousers, stuff ferrets down the top end, tighten the belt and see how long they can endure this. - The record, I believe, stands at over 5 hours). Somewhere along the line, she put the two together and until yesterday genuinely believed that this is what Masons met to do in secret: put ferrets down their trousers ! Her school until she was 11 was nextdoor to a Masonic Hall, and the school used the hall for various activities. She told all her friends about the ferrets and whenever they went in there, they would look to see if they could find where the Masons kept the cages. In a way, I was sorry to disappoint her on that one. She could have carried on all her life thinking that was the big Masonic "Secret"........and, of course, there is at least one generation of children who went to that school who maybe will. - jeanie :) |
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18 Feb 06 - 09:02 AM (#1671861) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Alan Day Jeanie all these peculiar things like having trousers rolled up on the initiation ceremony ,all have tradional reasons why they are done.To bear ones knee to the ground is actually anti Witchcraft.Laughable as other parts of the ceramony but if you are interested in traditions then very interesting when you investigate them.The Ladies Lodges are not part of the Grand Lodge of England but have their own organisation. Peter K if you are really interested then Google Masonic Lodges and County(Province) and you should find what you are looking for.The Province will put you in touch with a Nottingham Lodge.I assure you there will be one,probably in a building you drive past every day and never knew a Lodge was there.If you have problems contact me direct and I will find the information you require. Al |
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18 Feb 06 - 11:53 AM (#1671969) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Jeanie Alan - I am indeed very interested in the historical background to the rituals and symbols and their links with the ancient mysteries. Following on from this thread and the article I read in the Guardian, I've been doing some reading around and have come across the "Droit Humain" organisation of "Co-Freemasonry" - i.e. mixed lodges of freemasons, which appears to put particular emphasis on the spiritual aspects and is strongly linked with the Theosophy movement and the theosophical view of life. Here is a link for anyone interested: Very interesting. - jeanie |
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18 Feb 06 - 01:21 PM (#1672037) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Peter K (Fionn) Thanks for the PM Colyn. I'm now on the trail of a lodge not far away. I've already visited the grand lodge in London however, and they were not helpful with my questions. But they were perfectly open about the fact that membership would open up "networking" opportunities with people I might not otherwise be able to approach. This is the constant theme of freemasonry. Someone above said "join - then start networking away" or words to that effect. And the Guardian article linked by Jeanie included this: "... she admits that Masons network in much the same way as any other society." But it is not the same way as any other society. Manitas, few would join EFDSS to improve their business opportunities, and if they did they would be disappointed. More critically, many freemasons (unlike EFDSS members) still refuse to admit they are members. It's no good the apologists saying the graft and the cronyism and the secrecy ended in the 1990s, because many still join precisely for those things - and are determined to perpetuate those values. |
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18 Feb 06 - 03:21 PM (#1672145) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Alan Day Peter one of the questions asked to a person joining Masonary at their interview is what do you expect to get out of it.If his answer is an increase in business ,or to improve myself financialy, then he will be black balled (not part of the ritual). My son does more business in the local pub than I have seen in my Lodge.What it will do however is give you confidence to attempt those things which you may have thought you were not capable of.Many Masons become successful business men because of that new confidence. If you do require more detailed answers than I am giving you please write or Email Grand or Provincial Grand lodge. Like music it is no good going into it without being fully committed to see it through. Thanks for the link Jeanie.Some of the sentences of the ritual are just wonderful and make the hairs on your back stand up.I am not a Masonic Historian, but some of the lectures particularly connected to the construction of Cathederals is very interesting.The subject could be a full time job if you were that way inclined but I am not. Al |
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18 Feb 06 - 03:56 PM (#1672193) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: akenaton |
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19 Feb 06 - 03:13 AM (#1672622) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Alan Day I do find it amusing that many of you who are bashing Masonary for being a Society with Secrets write in under a Pseudenym. Al |
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02 Mar 12 - 05:46 PM (#3316308) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: C-flat I sometimes perform a comedic song after our masonic meetings about "famous" freemasons. I wrote it after researching a little about the society and managed to cram a tiny fraction of the "names" I discovered into a few verses. I won't bore you with the song but, from memory, some of the names as follows:- (with apologies for spellings) Haydn, Liszt, Mozart, Count Basie, Louis Armstrong, Nat King Cole, Al Jolson, Gilbert AND Sullivan, Daniel Boone, Buffallo Bill, Jim Bowie, Samuel Colt, Gene Autrey, John Wayne, Davy Crockett,Clark Gable, Ernest Borgnine, Douglas Fairbanks, Peter Sellers, Bud Abbott, Roy Rogers, Mel Blanc,Lister (antiseptic), Fleming (penicillin), Jenner (smallpox vacine, Long (anaethestic), Walter Scott, Buzz Aldrin, Shackleton, Jackie Milburn, Arnold Palmer, Sugar Ray, Jack Dempsey, John Macadam (tarmac), Citroen, Chrysler,Churchill, Kipling, Voltaire, Pushkin, Alexander Pope, Mark Twain, Souza, Stamford Raffles, Jonathan Swift, Lipton (tea), Gillette (razors), Col. Sanders, Simon Bolliver, Cecil Rhodes,Harry Houdini, Sir Joseph Banks, Duke of Wellington,Burl Ives, Bob Hope, Oh yeah, and lots and lots of very ordinary people, who won't ever be household names, like me! Eclectic enough mix? No doubt some good and bad people in the organisation, but in the main, I've met mostly good and made lifelong friendships from every type of background and profession. There would be nothing unusual about an unemployed labourer being "master" of a lodge full of professional people. A persons financial circumstances are not relevant. I'm a typical "average salary" rep and never closed a deal or won a contract as a result of my membership. I can't even bring myself to comment on some of lunatic remarks by people trying to suggest they know something about the organisation. Their postings only demonstrate a complete and utter lack of kowledge and a scary intolerance. C-flat |
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02 Mar 12 - 05:54 PM (#3316310) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: number 6 "I can't even bring myself to comment on some of lunatic remarks by people trying to suggest they know something about the organisation. Their postings only demonstrate a complete and utter lack of kowledge and a scary intolerance." I agree ..... and I'm a Freemason biLL |
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03 Mar 12 - 04:29 PM (#3316796) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Greg B The reason Catholics are proscribed (by their church, not by the Freemasons) from being Masons is because the Freemasons have refused to submit their rituals and beliefs to the scrutiny of the Catholic Church. And it is the case that the Knights of Columbus were founded to scratch the "fraternal lodge itch" which was present in men of earlier days. Now, sadly, the Knights seem to have turned into an arm of the Republican Party in the US. Here in the Northeast, the KofC hall was a good place to go (if a member or a guest of same) for really cheap drinks. Also true of the Veterans of Foreign Wars and Oddfellows, and especially the Moose lodges. Do many Masonic lodge have pubs for members only? |
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04 Mar 12 - 07:40 AM (#3317039) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Musket People are people and some are members of fraternal organisations, such as freemasonry. I used to be a member of a charity that was perceived by some as being a fraternal organisation, and having American origins, it certainly did have a few rituals that some (though not in my area) performed. I used to be a bit uncomfortable when we were mistaken as such. Mind you, not that I have anything in theory against members of a club and back scratching. Most political and community based groups can be just that, but at least Freemasons are honest about it.. So to the negative bits. There is a lot of pseudo religious mumbo jumbo, and it is rather disturbing to think that most leaders and opinion makers in The UK over the last few hundred years have happened to spend a night a week at their lodge. Also, many have interpreted their membership as granting them privileges that go far outside of membership. The truth or urban myth of each case is whatever it is, but sadly for most members, there have been some high profile cases of membership being abused and affecting decisions in court, in local government and in that sense, affecting you and I. I recall Derbyshire Country Council used to have on their job application forms two questions; Are you a freemason? and Would you be willing to relinquish your membership if offered this post? Despite the awful (and possibly not used nowadays for legal reasons) lack of freedom the council seemed to be pushing, it was sadly based on genuine occasions where membership had affected council decisions in the past. You can't blame people either for viewing membership with suspicion. The secretive air that membership offers can be exciting for someone going into the craft, (as it is referred to,) but likewise, fuels suspicion especially where stories, both true and false, imply they influence the greater society. Two things then. 1) They don't influence these days, even if they did once. In case nobody noted, public services are run by both younger people and women, neither of which will be influenced by silly old men. 2) If we are left with men getting together, muttering nonsense and then having a few pints, then good for them. Hope they get their rocks off to it, although it isn't for me. Mind you, I have very good friends, both personally and in business, who are Freemasons and I have never felt paranoid in business for not joining them, despite a few offers. |
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04 Mar 12 - 11:59 AM (#3317139) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: Mr Happy '...And the next to come in was the mason All dressed in his funny old apron All dressed in his funny old apron And he had a peculiar tattoo His trouser was rolled up to the knee His breast was bare Oh woe! Cried he You try cutting stone dressed up like me When Peculiar Ale was new me boys When Peculiar Ale was new' [Chris Sugden] |
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04 Mar 12 - 12:12 PM (#3317143) Subject: RE: BS: joining the masons From: GUEST,Me again Or even Jones's Ale..... |