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06 Feb 06 - 07:49 PM (#1663279) Subject: BBC 2006 folk award results From: rhyzla If you're interested, find out more here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/r2music/folk/folkawards2006/winners06.shtml |
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07 Feb 06 - 01:49 AM (#1663520) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: Dave Hanson No surprises there then, they might just as well call it the folk awards club and repeat it every year. eric |
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07 Feb 06 - 03:39 AM (#1663557) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: Paco Rabanne Oh! |
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07 Feb 06 - 03:47 AM (#1663560) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: GUEST,Rich Hmmm, not impressed. |
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07 Feb 06 - 07:09 AM (#1663647) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: GUEST,Sundial Why is everyone so bitchy on this board? First everyone slags off Sidmouth. Now it's the turn of the Folk Awards. Stop being such miserable mudcatters! |
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07 Feb 06 - 07:30 AM (#1663665) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: John MacKenzie Perhaps Guest Sundial because they do not agree with the selections. It is nice to see these people get awards, but there are people who need the recognition more than most of them, and who are equally as good. As for the Most Influential album classification, what a farce, it is invidious to choose one from many, and whichever they select there will be others that were even more influential to different people. Objectivity is required when giving awards, and I don't see too much of it as far as these particular awards are concerned. I now look forward to a badly produced TV programme covering these awards, with the prizes being presented by someone from outwith the folk scene, and the sound engineering as crap as last year! Giok |
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07 Feb 06 - 08:02 AM (#1663682) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: 14fret Giok is right. This is the business side of music. It's a 'club'. |
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07 Feb 06 - 08:18 AM (#1663699) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: greg stephens The selection of Fairport's "Liege and Lief" as the most influential folk album is intriguing. Looking round the folk scene nowadays(whatever we mean by this term), it is difficult to pick out much that appears to have been influenced strongly by that very brief and narrow musical movement. I often talk with musicians and journalists, and read musical biographies and autobiographies, and certain musicians and recordings do come up over and over again as great influences on people. I cant say that Fairport turns up often in this context....maybe I move in the wrong circles? |
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07 Feb 06 - 08:39 AM (#1663723) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: GUEST,h I don't agree entirely with awards that claim that one act is significantly 'better' than another. Why? How do they judge who deserves to win over another? I'd far rather see music celebrated at an event amongst like minded people which recognises achievement, rather than handing out awards to Best this, and Best that...in a sense indicating there's an elitist element to the world of folk and traditional music. |
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07 Feb 06 - 08:52 AM (#1663736) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: gnomad Like EricTR I am struck by a lack of surprises, though I was only moved to actually diagree with one award as being plain wrong. That isn't a bad average, but I did wonder who makes up the voting panel. I found the following statement from John Leonard in the "About the Folk Awards" section. "The awards themselves are voted for by a panel of around 150 broadcasters, folk journalists, festival organisers, agents, promoters etc; people whose job it is to make judgement of one sort or another about folk music during their daily work. I have never asked musicians to vote because I think it is their role to make the music and other people's to judge." Made me wonder a bit more: 1} How much music can an otherwise-qualified voter make before they disqualify themselves? 2] What are agents and promoters doing in there? I am sure that many of them do know about the music, but their prime qualities are commercial nous and organising ability. Given that they cannot be disinterested parties I feel that they make less than ideal electors. |
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07 Feb 06 - 09:02 AM (#1663744) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: Big Al Whittle I suppose it will go on as long as we sudsidise it. I wonder if other artists - theatre, art, literature, film, tv - are as pissed off with their awards systems, as we are. |
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07 Feb 06 - 09:07 AM (#1663750) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: greg stephens A glance at Gnomad's list of people who vote indicates what sort of criteria will be used in the selection. Don't be surprised or annoyed if you personally disagree. Long term, judgements about musicians are made collectively by punters and fellow musicians, the two categories that don't get to vote in these kind of award competitions. |
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07 Feb 06 - 09:30 AM (#1663767) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: GUEST,shantideva Hi, Just wanted to stick my oar in. I sympathise with the comments on the awards. I do feel that things are not so simple these days in any arena. Perhaps Leige and Lief is one of those albums which kind of gave the impetus to things in terms of style and direction. I do feel that it still has something special about it, other worldly. Now you may say so what, or what's that got to do with folk music. But thinking about the debate on what is folk (and I don't want to start up yet another debate on the subject here) I like Bert Lloyd's comments that whatever you think it is, it seems to arise from a deeper consciousness and a song of common experience delivered by performer who (hopefully out of inspiration rather than affectation) sings with eyes closed or a a distant gaze as if drawing on something beyond the scope of the individual. sd |
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07 Feb 06 - 10:34 AM (#1663829) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: Chris Green On a more positive note, yay for the Red Lion getting Best Folk Club. Congrats to Della, Chris and all the crew! Chris (not the above mentioned one!) |
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07 Feb 06 - 10:50 AM (#1663844) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: Beardy There do appear to be some strange categories. If musicians are disenfranchised from voting in the other categories I would have thought 'Most influential album' would have to be voted for by musicians. But no, that is an audience award. How do we know what influenced the musicians we listen to? Very odd. Stewart |
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07 Feb 06 - 10:59 AM (#1663850) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: GUEST Glad to see Paul Brady getting the lifetime achievement award. Sure it's a contrived list but still glad to see him amongst the others. |
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07 Feb 06 - 11:00 AM (#1663851) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: GUEST,greg stephens The thing about these awards, inevitable given the group selected to decide, is that they are very self-referential, and relate closely to the "folk-scene". Which, given the claims that traditional folk music represents something deep in relation to community consciousness, can only be a pity. Maybe they should have special awards for acts/recordings/whatever which make an effort(or maybe even succeed?) in leaping over the ring-fence and land in dear old England(or possibly Britain, people never seem quite sure where these awards apply to). The Dubliners, for example, many years ago did this with "Dirty Old Town" and "The Wild Rover": like it or not(I did) they managed to do it. They did it, in the sense they made the music part of everyday life, not something for a folk festival, or perhaps a soundtrack for some documentary or drama set in Ye Olde Days. Perhaps the awards should be made by those who are NOT folk journalists, festival organisers or agents for folk acts.Then we might see some very interesting results. |
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07 Feb 06 - 11:58 AM (#1663899) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: Folkiedave I doubt if an award based on votes would be any better system. It would simply go to the people with the best organised fans. It isn't really about awards - any more than the Mercury Awards are. It is about getting publicity for a genre of music - having a shindig and slapping each other on the back. And making a radio programme. And I am delighted that Flook got an award as Best Group and for Spiers and Boden who have done a lot to move music forward. But don't take it too seriously is my advice. Dave |
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07 Feb 06 - 02:19 PM (#1663970) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: LesB For Folk Club of the year read folk concert venue of the year? I can't pass comment on the Red Lion as I have never been there, but with a big name guest each week (with support) and no singers nights, surely it's a concert venue, (like all the previous winners). To quote from their website "For most concerts there are more than enough chairs. For a few popular concerts there are not", therefore they even think of themselves as a concert venue. This is not meant as a critism of this, or any of the past winners of the award, (anywhere that puts on folk music has it's place), just my perception of what constitutes a folk club. Cheers Les |
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07 Feb 06 - 03:26 PM (#1664001) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: greg stephens I dont know if that list of winners in the various categories is a complete one, but I notice that sessions and dances do not appear in any context. Historically, and right now as well, those would be appear to be the major outlets for traditional music in the country YOu might expect them to appear somewhere, Maybe a best dance band, or best venues or something. Best session might be a little and difficult to decide, but as they've maaged best folk club, it shouldn't be impossible. It's not a matter of who wins, particularly, just seeing the categories represented. Carnivals are interesting, too. I've been involved in street music in virtually every town in the north west of England, for example, and others are active elsewhere. But this does not interest the official world. I think the whole cocept needs broadening out to something a bit nearer reality, Evertone of those winners is a very worthy winner, I should emphasise. But there are other worlds as well as those considered here. |
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08 Feb 06 - 11:37 AM (#1664255) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: breezy Folk Clubs do not qualify for any inclusion as they are mostly periferal. Whose to say wether nettlebed, hitchin or the Red lion are or are not folk clubs? Me But a folk 'gathering that does not book guests, is a singaround club, a club that books guest at least once a month is a folk club, a club that books less often is a singers club with the occasional guest. All serious Folk Clubs ought to be affiliated to the EFDSS Wheres the form She? |
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08 Feb 06 - 12:19 PM (#1664288) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: GUEST LesB is bang on when he says the award should be for folk concert club. There is a marked difference between a folk club and a weekly concert venue. Congrats to the Red Lion but the fact is that this award (I believe) is voted for by the artists who have an interest in next years booking. Taken with a pinch of salt they do offer a platform for the genre. |
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08 Feb 06 - 01:09 PM (#1664337) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: LesB Spot on Breezy, good descriptions. Cheers Les |
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08 Feb 06 - 01:56 PM (#1664363) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: GUEST,Hallamshire Traddie As a voter on the BBC awards I'd like to make a small point here. When your booking form arrives it comes with the list of categories but it also has a list of 'suggestions to jog your memory'. (Can't remember the exact wording) Now the trouble with this is that it acts to 'lead the witness'. I voted for acts that never saw the light of day on this and the last two years. My preferences, which included the likes of Nancy Kerr and James Fagan, Jim Causley, Witches of Elswick and the astonishing Crucible didn't feature in passing as far as I could see. The insidious 'memory list' is, to my mind, the root of the problem.I personally believe in an open playing field especially when we have reviewers and the like who decide that,and I quote, "If Martin Carthy says he's good then that's good enough for me". Just the sort of 'discerning punter' that needs a list cos he doesn't get out and actually see the really good acts. |
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08 Feb 06 - 03:45 PM (#1664475) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: vectis Seaford is a folk club with a booked guest every week but it IS a folk club not a concert venue. Which other clubs were nominated? I looked at the nominations but didn't spot any folk clubs, in fact I couldn't find the category at all only in the awards section. |
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08 Feb 06 - 07:19 PM (#1664700) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: GUEST,Pipsqueak I went to a Folk Festival in Seaford once, years ago, late 70s, the Dransfields were on the bill and there were about five people in the audience. Does Seaford Folk Club attract a bigger audience now? |
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09 Feb 06 - 02:08 AM (#1665000) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: Dave Hanson Never mind who votes for these musicians, WHO nominates them ? for instance who nominated John Tams ' Man of Constant Sorrow ' for best original song, when it clearly isn't original. eric |
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09 Feb 06 - 04:45 AM (#1665048) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: breezy Lets have a platform for the 'real' Folk Clubs guide to criteria Paid admission paid guest once a month - Div 111 paid guest twice a month Div 11 paid guest every week , plus residents, plus floor spots Div 1 Paid guest but no regular resident and no floor spot are already catered for so it appears. |
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09 Feb 06 - 07:10 AM (#1665100) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: greg stephens Hallamshire Traddie makes some very interesting points there: I find the memory-jogging list a bit shocking, but kind of explicable. But he ends up the phrase "good acts". I would suggest a completely new category, as we are talking about folk music, which is related to showbiz but not necessarily part of it, My new category would be: "Musicians who could in no circumstances be described as a good act, but are great to listen to and to be with". Because some of the most memorable nights of my life have been spent listening to people who go precisely into that category. |
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09 Feb 06 - 08:43 AM (#1665164) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: GUEST,DB Well, I don't suppose that I should be at all surprised but, as someone who has been interested in folk music for four decades, I'm not impressed (as usual). Most of the winners I would regard as highly commercial artists who I usually go out of my way to avoid. This is partly because I'm a bit of a purist but also because these artists seem, to me at least, to be missing the point. I regard them as people who have agendas which have nothing to do with those aspects of folk music that I find most attractive. Many of the winners are striving for a distinctive and commercial 'sound' that will sell recordings and ultimately they are using folk music as a platform to sell themselves. I prefer artists who want to communicate to me their passion for the music and have some understanding for where it came from and what meaning it may have had for previous generations. Folk music, and particularly folk song, is not just a collection of 'pretty' or trendy sounds it is a body of music laden with fascinating historical and cultural significance. |
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09 Feb 06 - 08:47 AM (#1665166) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: Sarah the flute Ummm did I miss something???? What happened to the Best Dance Band Category from last year???? or was it an award for one year only...will it return?...or couldn't they find anyone they knew to award it to? Sarah |
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09 Feb 06 - 08:47 AM (#1665167) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: jojofolkagogo Hello every body out there !! I think that Little Wee Drummer has a VERY good point, the fact is, its the old "slap on backs" syndrome, and nobody really likes it, even the winners, although it is flattering, they know in their hearts that there will always be (in the words of Desiderata) "Greater and Lessers persons than yourself" I think there is really only ONE thing to say and that is "KEEP MUSIC LIVE" and "S#D" all the rest of the orchestrated stuff, by do-gooders who do very badly indeed !!! Howzat ! from Jo-Jo (jojofolkagogo@yahoo.com) |
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11 Feb 06 - 06:48 AM (#1666716) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: BB Guest Hallamshire Traddie, has your point ever been made to the organisers of the award? Are you in a position to do so? The complaints about who wins, or even who's nominated for these awards come up every year, and it seems that the original 'reminders' may well be the reason why the awards seem to be outside of most 'folkies' reality. |
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11 Feb 06 - 02:14 PM (#1666845) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: GUEST,Guitar Freak How come Paul Brady's guitar sounded dreadful! His fault? The sound engineer? |
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11 Feb 06 - 05:08 PM (#1666872) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: fi_in_nz Good points from Hallamshire Tradie - pretty shocking to hear that there are "suggestions to jog your memory" - so who comes up with these?, the promoters? I listened to the awards and it sounded pretty much like a Mike Harding show to me. Friends of friends and the "in" club. Eliza Carthy said it all when she was giving out an award and she said " this man has been a good friend of the family for many years"........ what about all those great musicians who don't know the Carthy's/haven't been "on the scene" for 30 years? How about bringing some new voices to the masses? Since there are so many of us complaining, how about a Mudcat British Folk Awards????? F |
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12 Feb 06 - 03:51 AM (#1666959) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: Dave Hanson That could be an interesting idea fi, no commercial interests involved, hmm. eric |
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12 Feb 06 - 06:13 AM (#1666973) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: Les in Chorlton 'Mudcat British Folk Awards' I think this a brilliant idea. What would the categories be? One could be something like: 'The person who most relentlessly snipes at Mike Harding' or 'The person who is first to spot someone who is quite good then slags them off just before they become quite popular' or 'Someone who gets paid quite well but condems singers and musicians fro trying to earn a decent crust' Anymore? |
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12 Feb 06 - 07:25 AM (#1666975) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: greg stephens A very crucial category would be "Pseudonymous GUEST who most consistently tries to sabotage Sidmouth Folk FestivaL". |
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12 Feb 06 - 10:29 AM (#1666980) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: Dave Hanson I will propose myself for the ' relentless sniping at Mike Harding award ' Will someone please secont that ? eric |
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12 Feb 06 - 11:09 AM (#1666985) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: GUEST,Hen Harrier Does anyone know if it's going to be televised this year, if not, why not? We get precious little trad stuff televised on mainstream, surely, this is the least we can expect? |
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12 Feb 06 - 06:55 PM (#1667105) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: greg stephens Les I like your category for well-paid people trying to stop folk musicians getting paid. I sit on a few committees for civic festivals and carnivals, and you would be surprised(or possibly not surprised) at how many people, with guaranteed salaries in the £15-30,000 range(whether on holiday, of sick or whatever) who try really hard to prevent musicians being paid £50 each for a days work. I heard one such person say(I id you not) "We;re not here to give the council's money away". This was a salaried official, discussing hiring entertainment for a large English city festival, querying a fee to a band who tour the country professionally. The fee involved was £250 for a four-piece band, including travel! |
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12 Feb 06 - 07:02 PM (#1667109) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: GUEST Why am I not suprised Greg. We are but travelling players, next only to beggars. And now I know the awards actually send a list of names to be considered I know all the people who have no chance of ever being granted an accolade. |
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13 Feb 06 - 02:10 AM (#1667172) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: GUEST,Bruce Baillie ...Well it just goes to prove what I've always maintained, that awards whatever the reason they are awarded for, or the profession they are awarded to are a load of old bollocks,I'm afriad it's just human nature at work praising the few who may or may not be entitled to it while ignoring the many who again may or may not deserve it! |
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14 Feb 06 - 03:17 PM (#1668381) Subject: RE: BBC 2006 folk award results From: Les in Chorlton Good example Greg. I guess their is a folk pyramid with lots of little clubs at the bottom, small concert places, big concert places and then festivals. In the end the top is governed by the bottom. It survives and lets keep it going by keeping a good friendly atmosphere in little clubs and that is not always the case. |