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06 Mar 06 - 08:04 AM (#1686333) Subject: happy? - Mar 6 (the Alamo, remember?) From: Abby Sale The Alamo falls on 3/6/1836 (the siege began Feb 23)
Copyright © 2005, Abby Sale - all rights reserved What are Happy's all about? See Clicky |
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06 Mar 06 - 10:48 AM (#1686419) Subject: RE: happy? - Mar 6 (the Alamo, remember?) From: Den I was there in January. I enjoyed my trip to San Antonio. I found the people very friendly. It was a good experience being inside the Alamo and I spoke with one of the custodians at length. She belonged to the Daughters of the Republic of Texas. I also found it interesting from my perspective that nine Irishmen fell at the battle of the Alamo and that about forty people present at the final battle were directly of Irish descent. |
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06 Mar 06 - 10:31 PM (#1686932) Subject: RE: happy? - Mar 6 (the Alamo, remember?) From: GUEST,Texas Guest Out on the wide spread battle plain The horseman's hand can bare restrain The pampered steed that spurs the rein - remember the Alamo Now boot and saddle draw your sword Unfurl your banners bright and broad and as ye strike the murderous horde - remember the Alamo Then sounds the thrilling bugle blast We charge from rank to rank at last And as our sabre strokes fall fast - remember the Alamo Heed not the Spanish battle yell With every blade we give them hell And let them fall as Crockett fell - remember the Alamo To every ball and every thrust To prisoners for his bloody lust A Mexican shall bite the dust - remember the Alamo On San Jacinto's bloody field Our drums and trumpets loudly pealed We made the bloody bastard yield - remember the Alamo A rousing sight to a rebel's eye See the tyrant's legions fly From the Texian battle cry - remember the Alamo |
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07 Mar 06 - 12:48 AM (#1686971) Subject: RE: happy? - Mar 6 (the Alamo, remember?) From: GUEST,Owlkat I know this may provoke hostile responses, but my intention is to analyse, not criticise, and I think contemporary and modern perceptions of the Alamo battle deserve comment. As a historian, historiographer and researcher, I've found the interpretations of past events can be as interesting and thought-provoking as the actual facts. The case of the romanticising of the battle at the Alamo chapel, is a good example of how history is re-written and re-mythologised. Here, the contra-legal actions of a small band of foreigners, rejecting the sovereignty of a bordered and independant nation (Mexico) forcing a military response, and committing suicide in the resulting pacification have been re-written into folklore, mythology, and woven into America's cultural matrix and consciousness. This is no surprise, since American foreign policy, and for that matter, the policies of most nations of the world have at one time or other, been about destabilisation, domination, and control of other nations long before Admiral Perry forced Japan to open her borders to Western trade at cannonpoint. As someone who loves learning, I'm as eager to read culturally and socially constructed primary and secondary sources as I am lettered research from both academics and popular historians. But, it's both disappointing and troubling when anyone's history is re-written to custom-fit political and cultural agendas. When the interests of nationalism re-construct a mythos as factual, the whole point of learning and recording history is set on its ear. I know very well that no recorded history is objective; it's impossible. Yet, those who consciously ignore the lessons of the past because they contradict contemporary social and cultural imperatives, often realise the consequences of that past. Those who ignore the lessons of the past can repeat them. To demonstrate that I'm not Yankee-bashing, consider the images of Canada as a warm, friendly, courteous, freely multicultural and accomodating nation where the right of all are respected, and no-one suffers state persecution or abuse of authority. In fact, just like the US, Canada has also been a slave nation, with a history of slave owning, and trade. In the early 19th century after slaves were legislated into freedom, only those who hadn't been born slaves were emancipated. Born slaves remained in bondage for life. Our first nations people, since the 70's, have begun to make their true and terrible histories so public that the church and the state have been forced to acknowledge a more factual past, and to take action on behalf of the survivors. Again, this is new to too many younger Canadians. In history classes at the University of Victoria, faced with a variety of white-washed versions of Canadian history, I've been continually reminded of the power of re-written history to serve the dominant class, and maintain the legitimacy of that class. The re-weaving of history is only natural; the winners write the books. One should expect no less. But, one can also reach a better understanding of self, identity, and country by familiarising oneself with a more global sense of history, and the roles played by others in it. Certainly, remember the Alamo and its folklore, and its songs, and even the movie featuring John Wayne. But, you also owe it yourselves, and your country to remember that there is a history of the world that surrounded and permeated it, and to strive to reach some level of understanding the relevance and importance of that history. Thanks. Marti. |
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07 Mar 06 - 08:57 AM (#1687219) Subject: RE: happy? - Mar 6 (the Alamo, remember?) From: Abby Sale Thanks, Den. I love it when one of these things sparks a personal experience. To me this brings the vagueness of the folk-past into reality. GUEST,Texas Guest - Nice take. Where's it from? GUEST,Owlkat - Although I aggressively agree with all you've said, (and especially that you've come to expand, not criticize) I am generally unimpressed with the "facts." At least, I'm much more concerned with the "Truth" of folklore than I am with the "Facts" of written history. You note: interpretations of past events can be as interesting and thought provoking as the actual facts. That's very good - puts it in perspective. Problem is that as a long-time trivialist (no way can I think myself a scholar or historian) I've come to have more and more contempt for written history and any Officially Accepted documents or books. I've seen far too much slanting of "facts" in, eg, school-board-accepted Florida textbooks, sent back to be re-written for religious and political reasons...Popular history written & sold for the shock value like tabloid newspapers...Scholarly texts, valid enough in the writer's own field but plagiarizing guesses and errors of other tomes for the rest of the tome...Old wives tales simply carried forward from scholar to scholar as material "everyone knows"...Utterly phony claims by scholars to have researched primary and source material...Conscious Big Lies to fulfill some secret political agenda...Unconscious Big Lies simply because the writer was a bad enough scholar that s/he selectively selected the material to report. I'm glad you take the stance of critical analysis and sympathize that you (are forced, I guess) to take the stance that anything you write will be controversial. I suppose that (wildly guess that) you've hit many brick walls that people prefer facts and interpretations that are emotionally satisfying, not those proven or rigorously logically surmised. Good luck ter yiz. For now, I'll take the folklore - I can depend on that. |
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07 Mar 06 - 09:42 AM (#1687248) Subject: RE: happy? - Mar 6 (the Alamo, remember?) From: GUEST,PeteBoom (at work) While remembering the Alamo, I'd also suggest folk remember the reason why immigrant folk took up arms and rebelled against the lawful government of the territory. The "breach" in the treaty boiled down to one issue from whence all other issues flowed. Something Mexico did not allow, and something a fair number of the newcomers insisted was theirs and was their "right". (Witness a similar attitude among some Britons of roughly the same and slightly later periods and Americans then - and to a greater extent - now. They have these rights because they are what they are, no matter where they are in the world...) Anyone guess? Its mentioned in the post by Owlkat... |
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07 Mar 06 - 08:27 PM (#1687873) Subject: RE: happy? - Mar 6 (the Alamo, remember?) From: GUEST,Texas Guest Abby Sale - the bit I submitted above is also by T.A.Durriage - with modification. I was involved in a stage show a few years back and uncovered what I came to refer to as "The Alamo - Tutie Tattie" and "San Jacinto - Tutie Tattie" - the former being written by the above writer, I believe, shortly after the Alamo battle, and the latter being written shortly after the San Jacinto battle by some who fought there. Both sets of words were written to the melody, "Tutie Tattie," used in the tune, "Scots Wha Hae." The above was basically an effort on my part to put the two "Tutie Tattie's" together, remove the duplicate bits and some of the Alamo stuff and make it a San Jacinto tune; this, because we had two Alamo songs and were in need of a San Jacinto song. OwlKat - I can't even begin to digest your stuff today. We could likely sit down and spend weeks discussing the Alamo and then months on Texas history followed by years on U.S. history and a lifetime on the rest. In the meantime - I'm just singing a song. Let's hope that the song will conjur up an interest in a given listener to investigate the truth and bring it to the light for others to share. Meanwhile, I'll just keep on diggin' up songs, singin' em and trying to make a living. Cheers, you all. |
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08 Mar 06 - 03:09 AM (#1688014) Subject: RE: happy? - Mar 6 (the Alamo, remember?) From: Paul Burke I can't guess, Pete, American institutions were often so special. For a British example, the same period too, look up "opium wars". |
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08 Mar 06 - 09:33 PM (#1688742) Subject: RE: happy? - Mar 6 (the Alamo, remember?) From: Suffet Greetings: I have actually collected over $75 in licensing fees for this song. I guess that makes me a professional songwriter! MOSES ROSE OF TEXAS Words: Stephen L. Suffet © 1995 Music: The Yellow Rose of Texas (traditional) Note: Moses Rose was an immigrant from France who found himself at the Alamo. He was the one person who refused to cross Col. William B. Travis's "line in the sand" and he successfully escaped from the fortified mission on the night before the fateful final battle. He's Moses Rose of Texas, And today nobody knows, He's the one who left the Alamo, The night before the foe, Came storming up across the walls, And killed the men inside, But Moses Rose of Texas, Is the one who never died. When gallant Colonel Travis, Drew a line down in the sand, Everyone stepped over, But one solitary man. They called him Rose the Coward, And they called him Yellow Rose, But it takes bravery to stand alone, As God Almighty knows. He said, "I'm not a coward, I just think it isn't right, For me to throw my life away, In someone else's fight. I have no quarrel with Mexicans, Nor with the Texans, too." So Moses Rose of Texas, He bade the men adieu. Whenever you are up against, Pressure from your peers, Or a challenge to your manhood, Or frightened by the jeers, Remember that discretion, Is valor's better part, And let the life of Moses Rose, Put courage in your heart. So shed a tear for Travis, And Davy Crockett, too, And cry for old Jim Bowie, They saw the battle through. But when you're finished weeping, And you're finished with your wail, Then give a grin for Moses Rose, Who lived to tell the tale! Enjoy! --- Steve |
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08 Mar 06 - 10:57 PM (#1688802) Subject: RE: happy? - Mar 6 (the Alamo, remember?) From: Barry Finn Great song Steve. Barry |
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09 Mar 06 - 12:46 AM (#1688860) Subject: RE: happy? - Mar 6 (the Alamo, remember?) From: GUEST,Texas Guest |
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09 Mar 06 - 12:56 AM (#1688863) Subject: RE: happy? - Mar 6 (the Alamo, remember?) From: GUEST,Texas Guest Sorry, guys. I did three shows today, it's late, and I'm two steps from the bed; but damn, wouldn't you think I'd know by now that hitting the "enter" key does not move you down - it moves you out! Mr. Suffet - thought you might like to know that I use your song as part of my Alamo set. There is some dispute down here over Rose and whether or not he even existed; but hell, they're still arguing about the Yellow Rose and who ever the hell she was - and that's been going on for years and years. Good song though, and it fits right in with all of the other Alamo lore. I haven't released it on disc yet, so you don't get any bucks - but hang in there, who knows what lurks around the bend? Cheers. |
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09 Mar 06 - 04:36 AM (#1688953) Subject: RE: happy? - Mar 6 (the Alamo, remember?) From: Hrothgar Is that slavery, Pete? |