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31 Jan 99 - 07:30 AM (#56575) Subject: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: mryan Does anyone know what the lyrics "musha ring dumma do dumma da" mean? They are from the song Whiskey in the Jar. If you have any idea of a translation, I would appreciate it. Thanks. |
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31 Jan 99 - 07:58 AM (#56577) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Roger in Baltimore Mryan, Irish music is filled with "nonsense" phrases like the one above. They tend to be part of choruses. I don't think they have any meaning or purpose except to fill up melodic space. Roger in Baltimore |
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31 Jan 99 - 10:43 AM (#56581) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Liam's Brother Roger is entirely correct. The meaning is... no meaning. |
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31 Jan 99 - 11:44 AM (#56587) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Ian Kirk (inactive) A more up to date translation may be - Wop Bop a Loo Bop a Lop Bam Boom - Little Richard borrowed it and used it in Tutti Frutti a Rock and Roll song my grandad told me about Ian |
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31 Jan 99 - 11:55 AM (#56588) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: NOBODY in the world is SO young that he HEARD about Little Richard from his GRANDAD for cripes sake. Now I know there IS a parallel universe out there mocking our own. Ian, you make me feel so old!--John |
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31 Jan 99 - 12:16 PM (#56589) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: rick fielding "musha, musha...." before we blame the Irish (or even grandparents who were Little Richard fans) can anyone remember: "iss biddly oten doten bobo". I can swear I heard my mother (singing?) that when I was an impressionable youth. And who of course could forget: "ooh eeh, ooh, ahh, ahh, ting tang wallawalla bing bang". Thank God I discovered Pete Seeger before it was too late! |
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01 Feb 99 - 11:04 AM (#56641) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Ritchie ish shimpul reely jush lishun too "mairzy dotes an does eet dotes an lickle ams eet ivy a kidll eet ivy too woodnt yoo?" an it will all becum so much cleera. lorra luv Big Richard |
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01 Feb 99 - 12:24 PM (#56656) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Bill D a few lines on deeper meaning... "now 'salagadoola' means 'mooshakaboolaroo', but the thinga-a-ma-bob that does the job, is 'Bibbity-bobbity-boo'" |
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01 Feb 99 - 12:35 PM (#56660) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Bill D and, for a complete explanation, click here Swinburn's tongue-in-cheek response to Tennyson's The Higher Pantheism |
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01 Feb 99 - 01:02 PM (#56663) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Sean Mac Ruaraidh Well, you may say it is nonsense but I have a theory that these garbled lines once meant something and that the meaning was lost in translation from another language or dialect. These gibberish fillers may well have at one point been phonetically translatable but now there is no chance as too many years have passed. Could 'musha ring umma do umma do' at one time been a bit of Gaelic Irish or did the writer simply run out of words, or is it just something that has the right sound about it. Its lines like this that might give folk music a bad name in some social groupings - I heard an uneducated English chap refer to it as Hey Nonny Noo music - sounds more like a reference to Much Ado About Nothing than folk music 'Into Hey nonny, nonny..' My dad calls some types of folk music 'diddle-dee-dee' but thats a direct reference to the sound of some of the bands and is onomatapaeic. Anyway unless someone comes with the goods we can specualte forever. I think too you'll find that 'musha ...' etc. is not even in all versions of that song. Sean
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01 Feb 99 - 01:39 PM (#56666) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Barry Finn Sean, a woman I used to sing with 15 years or so ago had the same theory you mentioned, but I haven't seen or heard from her since. She went to Scotland got a new name, a new husband, new band & now sings stuff that even she doesn't understand. Look above do you see the words to "mare's eat oats and doe's eat oats and little lambs eat ivy" that in itself makes for a convincing theory, although I think that Richie knew that when he posted it but many others have said that they haven't a clue as to what those words meant. Barry |
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01 Feb 99 - 05:30 PM (#56696) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Sandy Paton C'mon guys! We know they're all based on ancient Pictish fertility chants such as "Hi-diddle-i-diddle-i-fie, diddle-i-diddle-i-day." Part of the great Jungian collective-unconscious we happily share. Pre-viagara stuff, and no side-effects. Sandy |
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01 Feb 99 - 06:45 PM (#56738) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Joe Offer Rick Fielding - Isn't it your beloved Pete Seeger who inflicted "Abiyoyo" upon an unsuspecting world? I think I have that song on five different CD's. Listening to it once is quite enough. I like Pete Seeger very much, but not that song. -Joe Offer- |
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01 Feb 99 - 07:16 PM (#56745) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Roger in Baltimore Thanks, Joe, you echo my thoughts. I was thinking old Pete also sang somethin' called Wimoweh. I suspect that isn't a word in any language, either. Roger in Baltimore |
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01 Feb 99 - 07:20 PM (#56746) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Damn it joe, you had to remind me about that! Which in turn reminded me that Pete sang: Risselty rosselty, hey bombosity nickety nackety retricule quality willoby walloby now, now, now. He claimed it was from Aunt Emma Dusenbury, but I bet it was some communist plot. My all time favourite nonsence (or politically cyphered) chorus is that sung by Peter Stampfel on "Mr. Spaceman". It can be found on the Holy Modal Rounders first album. It puts your Pictish fertility choruses to shame, Sandy.
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01 Feb 99 - 07:35 PM (#56752) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Jo Taylor Rick - several messages back, could it be that you refer to 'BEEP skiddely ogen dogen pogo ske doogen daten'? Other parts like 'kama la kama la kama la vista' and 'eeny meeny macareny ooh ah ooha la meeny'?? If so it's a 'mind-worm' that's been bothering me for a couple of years...can anyone fill in the rest of it? or are those all the bits? It's a question & response sort of song. Do you all get mind-worms? Jo, who's just caught this one again - thanks Rick... :-/ |
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01 Feb 99 - 08:14 PM (#56763) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Anyone with a modicum of linguistic ability understands it to mean "SHITE". MG Sport |
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01 Feb 99 - 08:31 PM (#56771) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Mike Billo I'll lay claim to the "most pretentious twit" award ( a dubious honor that I'm, unfortunately, very familiar with) by contributing that the technical name for the singing of syllables that are not actually a part of a real language is called turtleage. |
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01 Feb 99 - 08:51 PM (#56775) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Sandy Paton Emma Dusenberry was discovered by some of those good political/social activists at the Commonwealth School in Mena, Arkansas, a fact that undoubtedly thickens the "plot." Lee Hayes was one of 'em, too, so there you are, Rick! Probably a direct conspiratorial link to Abiyoyo and Risselty-Rosselty, designed to weaken our patriotic resolve by filling our heads with nonsense. Jo: We've collected about a dozen "Mama-lama-kooma-lama, mama-la vistas" in schools around the country, and no two were ever quite the same. Similar, yes, but not identical. Our granddaughter learned a version here in rural Connecticut. Bessie Jones had a dandy one from the Georgia Sea Islands. Trouble is, they've all been done too fast for me to be able to transcribe the words! Sandy |
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01 Feb 99 - 10:16 PM (#56794) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: alison Hi Jo and Rick, Used to sing it as a brownie and guide. the rhythm is done by slapping your thighs then clapping your hands. FLEA (All lines are done by the leader then echoed)
Flea Then you do it FAST!!! Slainte alison |
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01 Feb 99 - 11:14 PM (#56798) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Joe Offer Hey, Alison, that's exactly the way I learned it from my obnoxious kid sister. She'd do it over and over and over again. It was disgusting. It still is.... -Joe Offer- |
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01 Feb 99 - 11:23 PM (#56800) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: karen k My version is the same as Alison's until the first line that ends with vista (but I learned vistey not vista). FLEA Each line is echoed back to the leader. Flea (Flea) Flea fly (Flea fly) Flea fly flo (Flea fly flo) Vistey (Vistey) Cumala, cumala, cumala vistey Oh no no no not the vistey Vistey ( and then it really changes!) Eeney meney dis a leenee, ooh ahh ahh meleenee Otchicotchee oochirachee, ooh ahh ooh. Ish bibili oaten doten, why not in doten toten, bo bo ski doten toten hey don areema! This was always a camp song that was lots of fun because you got faster each time until everyone just collapsed in laughter. I've heard other versions but this is the only one I've ever been able to learn. |
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01 Feb 99 - 11:26 PM (#56801) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: karen k Oops, Sorry Joe. I forgot all about the 's karen |
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01 Feb 99 - 11:34 PM (#56803) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: O'Boyle I knew some one who asked a band to play the "black balls on the patio" song which he thought were the words to the chorus of Whiskey in the Jar. Rick |
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02 Feb 99 - 12:25 AM (#56810) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Lonesome EJ I was driving with a friend whi is Irish, and we were listening to "Whiskey in the Jar". When hit got to the "musha ring dumma do" part, my friend says "Ah! here's the dirty part"."What ya mean, the dirty part?" I said.He told me that a lot of old Irish tunes were originally performed in pubs frequented by men only, and that the refrains were almost always "off-color", as they say.These were cleaned up for the functions where women,or folk music chroniclers, were in attendance.Now it's entirely possible my good friend was pulling my leg and it wouldn't be the first time. Maybe one of the Irish Mudcatters can confirm or refute this dread insult against celtic music. LEJ |
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02 Feb 99 - 01:48 AM (#56814) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: many years ago I heard Bram Morrison (before he became a trillionaire with Sharon Lois and Bram) singing "A Kangeroo sat on an oak...with the chorus Ki moneero kitty kum ki mo ki mo neero ki mo...he said it was a Newfoundland variant of Carrion Crow, and my friend who was with me wondered if the chorus was gaelic. I'm right now trying to decypher the hidden meaning that has escaped me all these years. In the meantime can anybody tell me what "Diddy wa Diddy" means? |
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02 Feb 99 - 01:52 AM (#56815) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Not that my postings are Shakespeare-like in their brilliance but can anybody tell me why they're coming out anonymously? Am I doing something wrong? Rick F |
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02 Feb 99 - 01:46 PM (#56875) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: I dinnae hae th' Irish, anely a wee bit o' Scots Gaelic, but I'm wi' Sean an' th' ithers whae think "Musha ring" comes frae wairds our Modern English/American ears hear as "nonsense." Allow me tae present ye wi' a relatit example: growin' up subjectit tae Peter, Paul, an' Mary's rendition o' sangs, I thocht for years that th' followin' wairds were "jist nonsense syllables:" "Shool, shool, shool-a-roon, / shool-a-rack-shack / shool-a-bob a-coon..." These wairds were pairt o' th' chorus tae th' auld sang aboot th' lass lamentin' that, as usual, "Johnny's gane for a soldier..." Weel, I haed ma suspicions that I wisnae gettin' th' hale story wi' that odd "nonsense" chorus, an' sure eno'!!! I went tae a sang wairkshop at an Irish festival in Alaska, an' there wis a fellow teachin' us th' proper Irish wairds. "Shool-a-run" actually comes frae th' Irish Gaelic (forgie me for wrichtin' Scots Gaelic an' omittin' accents, I dinnae hae th' Irish wairds printit oot) wairds "Siubhal"--meanin' travel-- an' "Run" meanin' someane verra dear. So th' narrator's nae babblin' like an' eejit, she's lamentin' th' fact that her love maun gae travellin' aff, an' possibly sayin' sumpit tae th' effect o' "sure, gae aff an' leave me, I'll jist sit here on ma hill wi'oot ma spinnin' wheel an' SUFFER..." I'm thinkin' tis time tae lay this ane afore oor resident Mudcat Irish scholars. Onyane oot there wi' a facility for Irish an' eno' vocabulary/interpretion skills tae render "Musha-ring..." in th' auld Mither Tongue? Barrin' that, onyane oot there wi' eno' Irish tae tell me aff, an' laugh in ma face because ye ken it really IS nonsense, sairvin' tae cover up sumpit waurse?!? maist humbly submitted, --Cuilionn |
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02 Feb 99 - 02:34 PM (#56881) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Bill D wasn't it Seamus Ennis who had a funny joke/monologue about a father and his kids, where he doesn't feel good, and they bring him a toddy, and inquire of it's efficacity ..."did da Rum do, Da-Dee?".... |
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02 Feb 99 - 07:32 PM (#56929) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Jo Taylor Thanks Alison & Karen! At least my mind worm will get it in the right order now......Joe (and others) - it must be much nore common in the US - I'd never ever heard it before until a couple of years ago sitting round a camp fire. |
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03 Feb 99 - 12:32 PM (#57049) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Margo Hey alison! I'm amazed at your "flea fly flo" rhyme. I learned the same one at camp in the sierras. Your version is verbatim to the one I know. THAT'S WIERD! You'd expect the differences..... Margarita |
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03 Feb 99 - 02:45 PM (#57063) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Philippa Shoo-bop-a-loo-bop. Yes, I heard the Pictish theory before; the lost tongue surviving only in choral remnants. And there certainly ARE songs in which the original language of the song survives in a corrupted form in the chorus. It happens quite a bit with the songs of immigrants in N America. Cuilionn mentions a variant of "si£l a r£in" (in the database as Shule Aroon, Buttermilk Hill, Shule Agra/Johnny has gone for a soldier; and also in an earlier thread in Irish); another example from Irish would be versions of an Drim¡onn D¡lis collected in Canada. But I would like to offer another theory about the origin of meaningless syllables. In many cases they have no particular function except to sound funny and be fun to sing together. But the custom may have risen out of vocables that were used as mnemonics to help memorise tunes. Some of you will know about songs that pipers used to learn tunes. As I understand it, the songs were similar to singing a melody with the words "doh, re, mi, fa," etc. fitting exactly which note was played. But the system was more complicated than that because there were also syllables to represent the time the note was held and some of the fingered ornamentation. Thus a piper could practise without an instrument, moving their fingers as the sound symbols of the song indicated. Scottish waulking songs have characteristic choral lines such as "o hi h-oireann o". Everyone waulking the tweed would sing these choruses together as they worked, while individuals would sing the verses. The verses can be adapted and improvised, but any particular melody has very specific vocables and they are supposed to be strictly adhered to. Given a line of the chorus, those in the know will be able to give you the entire tune. John Campbell and Frances Collinson did some analysis of how particular sounds(for instance the length of vowels)give the rhythm of the tune. I don't know what further study has been done on the topic. Has anyone got a theory about why Scots Gaels "hi ho", Irish singers "diddle da dee", Jazz goes "beebop", etc - the preponderence of a particular initial syllable in the lilting and vocatives of different cultures or musical styles? |
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05 Feb 99 - 03:32 PM (#57400) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Philippa "whack-fol-the diddle" means "refresh" in Phlipantish. as in "whack-fol-the didle-i-doh" which means "I'm not looking to have the last word on this topic". |
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05 Feb 99 - 05:55 PM (#57415) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Melodeon Who cares what it means!!! Where else can you stand up and say/sing something like 'musha ring dumma do dumma da' or 'ri fal latterly O' or even 'To me rite fal lal, to me ral tal lal, whack fol the dear oh day', and people applaud you? The Houses of Parliament? - Capitol Hill? |
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06 Feb 99 - 11:14 AM (#57469) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Rosie I've also been thinking that this type of "phrasology" is called "lilting"(shades of me Irish granny *sniff*). The term appears in Philippa's Feb 3 posting. It's a good warm-up excercise for Irish brogue-ing. Fiddle-de-di-dilly-deedle-de-day! Rosie
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14 Feb 99 - 02:52 PM (#58562) Subject: RE: cantaireachd From: Philippa I wrote on 3 Feb about the possible relationship of nonsense words to the system of cantaireachd for memorising pipe tunes. I've just been listening to a piping programme on the radio and they played some excerpts of and about cantaireachd from a new CD-Rom "The Great Highland Bagpipe". The reviewers rated it highly, albeit with a couple of quibbles about authenticity, such as an Irish bellows-blown uilleann pipe being played to illustrate the sound of the defunct pastoral pipe. Scotdisc has a webpage advertising this CD-Rom |
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14 Feb 99 - 02:57 PM (#58566) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Philippa I tested the link and it didn't work. I think I had an extra full-stop at the end of the address. So here we go again (Joe is sorry he ever told me about HTML): Scotdisc at http://www.scotdisc.co.uk/shop.htm |
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14 Feb 99 - 04:52 PM (#58584) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Jack Hickman, Kingston, Ontario Greetings, friends. Just to add my two cents worth to the mix. Without repeating the doggerel in the thread title, I would suggest it is a variant on the ancient art of "lilting" as practiced in Irish ceilidh when the participants were too poor to possess musical instruments. In order that the dancers could have music, one or more of the participants would "lilt" the melody. It's also referred to as "mouth music" and "puert a buill" (spelling questionable.) In other words it's just a sound to go with the song. |
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15 Feb 99 - 03:51 PM (#58725) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Philippa Jack, I would call the 'diddly di dee' type of singing 'lilting', but the marvellous thing about 'puirt-a- beul' (mouth music) is that the words DO make a kind of sense, as well as catching the inflections of the music wonderfully. Cha tig an latha th‚id mi dhachaidh Gus an tig na caoraich Cha tig an latha th‚id mi dhachaidh Gus an tig na caoraich Gus an tig a' chaora dhubh, Gus an tig a' chaora, Gus an tig a' chaora dhubh 'S a h-adhairc as a h-aonais basically it "means I won't come home till the sheep come". It's true the words are of little consequence, but they are not meaningless. We have similar songs in English; for instance to the reel "Soldier's Joy": I am my mother's darling pet I am my mother's darling pet I am my mother's darling pet I won't get married for a long while yet I don't think any of the ones I know in English match the sound qualities of the best examples of the Gaelic puirt. Though I think 'Old Dan Tucker' might fit in this category and it's quite catchy. By the way, as a Gaelic learner, I have sometimes been quite excited to realise what tune a lyric goes to simply by reading the words out loud and catching the rhythm. |
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16 Feb 99 - 05:46 PM (#58878) Subject: puirt-a-beul From: Philippa There are some more examples of puirt, with translations, (one goes to the tune of "The High Road to Linton") at George Seto's site and C. Cockburn offers an article about puirt-a-beul I haven't (yet)tried a mudcat foram search to try to find any previous discussion of the topic |
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27 Oct 03 - 02:40 AM (#1042352) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST,Patrick Sheehan Anybody know why the song is called "Whiskey in the Jar"? More specifically, why do they say, "There's whiskey in the jar" in the chorus when not one of the versions of the song has anything to do with Whiskey or Jars? The last stanza in a lot of the versions has the bit about "the juice of the barley" but all of the songs are about this outlaw guy getting betrayed by some girl, so why is the chorus a bunch of nonsense and a random bit about booze? Some of my thoughts: I keep looking but everywhere I look tells me the same thing: the words in the chorus are just nonsense. But I find that hard to believe. It sounds very much like the little Irish I know: "Musha ring um a do um a da" is very very similar sounding to these Irish words: Musha => M'uishe (my whiskey) ring um a => rinne me/ (rinne = past tense of "de/an" which is "do, make, perform, carry out, commit, turn out, reach, establish"; me/ = "I, me") do => don (from "do" + "an" = "to the, for the") um a da => amada/n (fool) which translates to "I made my whiskey for the fool." Which, as a translation, has the nice qualities that it follows correct Irish grammar and also follows stress rules for both sentences and individual words. It also has to do with whiskey, which is nice. my whiskey made a fool of me would translate to, I think: Rinne se/ m'uishe me/ amada/n. Which doesn't work as a translation because the subject has to follow the verb. "Whack for the daddy-o" is sometimes said to be a mistranscription of "work of the devil-o" which makes some sense as far as my first translation goes in an "alcohol is the devil's brew" sort of sense. It is also in keeping with the story line revolving around a highwayman. A possible anternative Irish translation is as follows: uacht failte ta/ diobh, which sounds like "whack fol cha ta jiov" which is pretty close. Unfortunately, I don't think it makes any sense since it translates to "It is a testament of welcome for them". My last thought is that maybe it has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with whiskey at all. Maybe the line "there's whiskey in the jar" is actually the mistranscribed line. Maybe the chorus never had anything to do with whiskey. The Irish word for whiskey, "uisce" (pronounced "ish-keh"), is also the Irish word for water. And many of the versions of the song have his girl filling up his cartridges with water as a main plot point. "Whiskey in the jar" might have been a mishearing of some Gaelic like "uisce ina dearadh" punning on dearadh, drawing his pistols and jenny or molly etc drawing water into his charges, or something. My Irish is definitely not good enough to do the translation but I do think there's something there. ----- Those are some ideas. Does anybody else have any helpful suggestions? (Aside from the suggestion that it is just nonsense...) Does anyone know where this chorus originates? (There is a very similar sounding chorus in "Whiskey, you're the divil" which the Clancys cover, I think, and that song has a bit more to do with whiskey but still not much as it's mainly a war song.) Any leads on what's goin' on here? - Very confused, Patrick Sheehan sheehan@brown.edu |
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27 Oct 03 - 03:46 AM (#1042365) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST Re why "there's whiskey in the jar": I think it simply is the part of the story where the narrator expresses his desire to kiss the jar/glass/bottle before continuing; compare "but I'll sing no more now 'till I get a drink" (in Carrickfergus) ;-) AKS |
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27 Oct 03 - 08:33 AM (#1042480) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST,weerover Another term for nonsense words/syllables in songs is "rumbelows" wr |
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27 Oct 03 - 11:30 AM (#1042601) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: radriano In the song "Siul a Run"(sp?) you can see some justification for the theory that nonsense words were not always nonsense. In later American versions of the song nonsense words replace the Irish words as a chorus. |
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27 Oct 03 - 12:08 PM (#1042636) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST,guest When we were kids in Tottenham (you can guess how long ago)we used to sing "We won the cup /we won the cup ee i addio we won the cup" .The iaddio bit i thought was nonsense until I went to Ireland about ten years ago and heard my friend's young daughter sing to the same tune " ta mamas isteach ta mamas isteach duirt daddio ta mamas isteach " In the Irish (which I'm sure I haven't reproduced properly here) it sounds very similar.The words mean something like Mummy's at home tell daddy that mummy's at home. The Clancy Bros used to sing a song THe Juice of the Barley with a chorus that I always assumed was nonsense "Bunya na bo is na Gowny and the Juice of the Barley for me" which isn't nonsense atall.It translates as The milk of cows is for calves and the juice of the barley's for me. Brendan Behan wrote that the words of Lillibulero which was sang by the apprentice boys at the siege of Derry and which wqs widely perceived as being nonsense meant The Lilly (the emblem of the boys who were all Gaelic speakers) won the day. There are a load of other examples but I can't think of any at the moment |
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14 Nov 03 - 07:53 PM (#1053876) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST,Patrick Sheehan Along a similar line, does anyone know what the earliest song is that this chorus appears in? It appears in this one and in "Whiskey, you're the Divil" (which is on this site). Does anyone know how far back it goes, with or with out the rest of the song? - Patrick Sheehan |
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14 Nov 03 - 10:09 PM (#1053943) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST,Patrick Sheehan As far as translations of the rumbelows goes, I have another one: m'uisce rinneadh me/ di/obh amada/n (sounds a lot like: musha ringa ma doo um a da, when said quickly) means literally my whiskey made me, for them, a fool. (or, more conversationally, my whiskey made me stupid and then they got me in my drunken state) There is a song called "Sporting Hero - or, Whiskey in the Bar" from an early 1850s broadside on Bodleian that is very very similar to Whiskey in the Jar and has the additional verses 1. I am a sporting hero, I never yet was daunted In treating pretty girls in places where I haunted In gin and rum and brandy I would spend all my store I when that is done I would boldly rob for more 4. I being wet and weary and for to take a slumber I laid my self down all in my Molly's chamber She unloaded my pistols and loaded them with water I was taken like a lamb going to the slaughter 8. Some take great delight in their fishing and their fowling and others take delight in their carriage rolling but I take great delight in being brisk and jolly Filling up strong liquors for you deceitful Molly. Taken in the context of these additional verses, it now makes some sense to me why the song is even CALLED whiskey in the jar. It seems to be based on a story where this drunk highwayman robs this Captain but is so sloshed that when he gets back to his girlfriend's place, she's finally had enough of him coming home trashed and so she decides to hand him over to the authorities. He passes out in her room ("I being wet and weary" possibly a reference to being drunk) and she disarms him so that he wont kill anyone when the police come for him in the morning. Then he escapes and in the end, in this version at least, is still in love with Molly, but seems to wish that he wasn't. I think my attempt at an Irish-English translation of this fits in nicely with the broader story of the "Sporting Hero" and iknowitall's comment about "whacking the bar to get the bartender's attention" and give an understandable, consistent possible reading of the chorus which is commonly just brushed aside as nonsense. The story of the chorus is that the highway man is in a pub telling this story to the other people in the bar, saying "what I fool I was when drunk, now get me another drink." This is both a more intersting chorus in this light, it is lightly ironic and humorous too. What do you all think? - Patrick Sheehan |
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14 Nov 03 - 10:23 PM (#1053948) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST,Patrick Sheehan hehehe, I really should collect all my thoughts before I post. I keep getting ideas and finding stuff. Anyway, the last post was slightly unclear in it's last paragraph: Sporting Hero is at the beginning talking to some audience and then ends with him talking directly to Molly (here's the link for those interested: http://bodley24.bodley.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/acwwweng/ballads/image.pl?ref=Harding+B+11(980)&id=01871.gif&seq=1&size=1 ). My comment on possible chorus interpretation is in regards to the more popular modern versions now where he is talking to an audience the whole time. Sorry if that was unclear. - Patrick Sheehan |
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15 Nov 03 - 09:24 PM (#1054463) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Peace I knew a fellow named Les in the sixties (1960s) who played a seven-string guitar (he doubled up the treble e string--separate tuning heads). He sang the chorus Mush a ringum a durum a dah, hah! Wack fol the daddyo, Wack fol the daddyo, There's whiskey in the jar. That was the first I'd ever heard of the song. Never knew what it meant. Great song, though. |
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16 Nov 03 - 04:19 PM (#1054910) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST,Philippa Maise = well, indeed seems a lot more likely than "m'uisce"! (I'd also query the syntax of Patrick's proposal, but there are such things as poetic license and garbled transliterations) |
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17 Nov 03 - 08:19 AM (#1055387) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: s&r I always feel that "I'm a rover seldom sober I'm a rover of High Degree" would make more sense as "I'm a rover seldom sober I'm a rover I'd agree" with just an air of contrite acceptance... |
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18 Nov 03 - 06:23 AM (#1056080) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: ard mhacha A very informative thread, with some well thought out theories, but away up the thread I came across. onomatapaeic, now can anyone tell me what race this horse is running in. Ard Mhacha. |
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18 Nov 03 - 06:29 AM (#1056084) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: ard mhacha Pardon my ignorance, I referred to Google and discovered-Onomatapaeic- is a dictionary of Slang. It`s in the 2-30 at Catterick. Ard Mhacha. |
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05 Apr 06 - 02:19 PM (#1711281) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST,Telvanni I've just been to an Irish pub today, and asked the landlord, what it meant ('Wack fol the daddy-o'), well he laughed and told me that I'll have to wait, til' I get older... since I'm only 17, he must've meant it was too "naughty" to tell me! ;) So, know you know it IS worth finding out what it means! Or maybe he's just good a joking?! haha |
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19 Dec 06 - 10:19 AM (#1913630) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST,maire well everyone - doesnt patricks thoughts make most sence? but agai tell me what whiskey and jars have to do with the rest of the song? just thinking this is one very interesting thread.. and if anyone has ideas - i'd also be most interested in knowing the words to one of my favorite songs slainte |
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20 Dec 06 - 06:59 AM (#1914565) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Scrump That 'flea' song above is similar to the Name Game by Shirley Ellis - I guess the latter was derived from it? |
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01 Jul 07 - 04:54 PM (#2091813) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST,periko i've been wondering what that might mean eversince i heard the thin lizzy version in '73. (had not heard any other versions then) it has been a conversation piece for many years, because ev'rytime that song popped up in my head (which was at least three times a week for about 25 years) i asked whoever was around if they knew what it meant. i think that, just because mr lynott sings it as if it were quite a message, i couldn't stand the fact that i didn't know what he was singing, and nobody else seemed to know either. a collegue of mine put on the lizzy vesion the other day, and again i started asking all my collegues and customers (mind you: musicbizz that is) and still not a clue. so finally i decided to check google which brought me here. i couldn't believe my eyes! this thing that had become sort of a running gag/obsession in my life, of which i assumed i would be the only freak in the world even bothering, this tiny little big triviality was keeping people busy always & everywhere! bless you all! but still: i dunno! i like "m'uishe rinne me don amadan" best, but maybe you 'd like to know what i made of it, being a 13-year old dutch kid, after two years of english lessons... my first interpretation was: "but i ain't gonna do some like that" (which has already quite a lot of possible meanings fitting in the context) but later i thought i heard: "but i ain't gonna do some mother" (maybe even better fitting in the context, and what about mr lynott's personal life being dragged into the chorus?) "whack! fall the daddy-o" always seemed obvious to me, because he escapes jail after smacking up his warden (if i remember correctly) finally; "there's whiskey in the jar" was obvious as well, because we have a proverb in holland which says "all is in jugs and jars"; meaning everything is fixed properly. (and i haven't told you my interpretation as a 10-year old of "crazy horses" yet!) but.... actually i am really glad that there is no official answer to my question, because i'd really miss my obsession. god by you all (or was it "good be you"?) periko www.periko61.nl |
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01 Jul 07 - 07:25 PM (#2091919) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST,JTT The 'musha' part means 'mar is ea', pronounced 'mar sha' and meaning "if it be so". I think the ring dum-a-doo-rum-da is port-a-béal - mouth-music, or nonsense syllables sung for fun. Whiskey in the jar - well, pass it round, boys (and girls). |
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01 Jul 07 - 10:52 PM (#2092061) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: EuGene Was it Roger Miller who sang "Do Whacka Do Whacka Do Whacka do"? Eu |
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02 Jul 07 - 10:46 AM (#2092392) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST,PMB Musha is a village in Egypt. Ringum is a $9.99 rug from IKEA. Durum is the kind of wheat used to make pasta. Da is yes in Russian. So "Musha ringum durum da" means "Yes, I'll have the cheap Egyptian pasta rug." |
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14 Jul 07 - 12:14 AM (#2102173) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST,Aneurysm HAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHA GUEST PMB YOU CRACK ME UP! |
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14 Jul 07 - 08:10 AM (#2102350) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Susanne (skw) For me, he best modern use of a line of mouth music occurs in Christy Moore's 'Knock Song' which ends with didnatodonatededough, me boys, did nato donate de dough Lovely! |
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28 Jul 07 - 01:21 PM (#2113424) Subject: RE: meaning - flee fly flo From: Viracocha Although this is a bit off-topic, now, as we're off the 'flee fly flo' topic, and more onto 'whisky in a jar' (which, being Scottish, I have to spell without the e in whisky ;P ). I've checked, but no one's replied with this yet, which really surprised me. There's a far more recent song released by a band called fe-m@ail, and the title is actually 'Flee Fly Flo.' Courtesy of lyricsactions.com, the lyrics go: FLEE FLY FLO Flee! (Flee!) Flee Fly! (FLee Fly!) Flee Fly Flo! (FLee Fly Flo!) Fista! (Fista!) Cumala Cumala Cumala Fista (Cumala Cumala Cumala Fista) Oh nononono, (not) a vista (Oh nononono, (not) ca vista) Ennyminey desaminy punana warraminy (Eeny meeney deci meeny oo na na walla meeny) Yip belly wapum bapum bobo wa hipum New Style New Style we got the new style, Freestyle Meanwhile sister got it by a mile, Lifestyle, girls smile, we can do it all the while. Telephone dialing, rub-a-dub styling. On a really cool tip, You can be a part of this trip All you gotta do is this, I said, All you gotta do is this. (Ooooooooooooh!) Read my lips! Cumala Cumala Cumala Fista (Cumala Cumala Cumala Fista) Oh nononono, (not) a vista (Oh nononono, (not) ca vista) Ennyminey desaminy punana warraminy (Eeny meeney deci meeny oo na na walla meeny) Yip belly wapum bapum bobo wa hipum Watch me do it, you can do it this way North and South and East and Westway Monday to Sunday, gotta be a funday We don't care what anyone's gonna say On a really cool tip, You can be a part of this trip All you gotta do is this, I said, All you gotta do is this. All you gotta do is this, I said, All you gotta do is this. Flee! (Flee!) Flee Fly! (FLee Fly!) Flee Fly Flo! (FLee Fly Flo!) Fista! (Fista!) Cumala Cumala Cumala Fista (Cumala Cumala Cumala Fista) Oh nononono, (not) a vista (Oh nononono, (not) ca vista) Ennyminey desaminy punana warraminy (Eeny meeney deci meeny oo na na walla meeny) Yip belly wapum bapum bobo wa hipum Oooooooooooooooooooh! Re-fry this! However, my mum learnt this (below) at camp in the early seventies (the spaces are as it is written in her self-written 'songbook'): FIE Fee (fee) Fee fie (fee fie) Fee fie fo (fie fie fo) Vista (vista) No, no no no de vista (no, no no no de vista) Coomawala coomawala coomawala (x2) Beet-dilly-oten-doten-bo-bo-ska-dooben-daken (x2) However, that's a completely different tune to Flee Fly Flo! And my sister (only 16) remembers this bit of a playground clapping rhyme, with the same tune (she thinks) as fe-m@il's song: Eenie-meenie Esse-meanie [ess-e like es-ugh] You are the one for me Egregation, segregation I love you. Incidently, is 'fee fie fo' anything like 'fee fie fum'? -Viracocha |
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29 Jul 07 - 01:25 AM (#2113798) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Jim Lad "which, being Scottish, I have to spell without the e in whisky " Where YOU are from is not important to the spelling of the word. It's where the Whisky is from that dictates the spelling. (Some thing a little distillery in Inverness County, Cape Breton, should make note of. Such matters should not be taken lightly. They're on my list. *Hic* Jim Big Mick: You have successfully completed your probationary period and are officially off the list. However, as a condition of your parole, I will be referring to you only as "Mick" for a period of no less than 30 (thirty) days. |
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12 May 08 - 09:06 AM (#2338301) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST,Ktulu789 I think is some kind of childish gibberish. The next line goes "Whack for my daddy-o". "Musha..." has no meaning but seems more childish when the next line comes with the word "Daddy", makes a bit of sense to me. But it has no meaning anyway. |
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12 May 08 - 09:18 AM (#2338308) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Mr Happy On the phone in Japan, they say 'Mushy, mushy' when they answet it |
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12 May 08 - 09:22 AM (#2338310) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Mr Happy Translated to Japanese, then back to English gives: The father of ma which thing cannot be earlier description in regard to ma which the gruel cannot be ring thing earlier description is done |
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12 May 08 - 12:13 PM (#2338417) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego "Hi Diddle Diddle," of course, once referred to personal relations accomplished in trees, then was used by "Mother Goose" (whose very name should elicit shudders from caring parents)in the well-known nursery rhyme. There's just no telling where these nonsense phrases can lead... |
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12 May 08 - 03:43 PM (#2338614) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Wincing Devil I always thought the translation was either "Fa la la la la" or "Chip Chow Cherry Chow folyy rolly diddle dow"
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13 May 08 - 04:19 AM (#2339019) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Mr Happy <>i'Chip Chow Cherry Chow...' sounds a bit Chinese! |
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13 May 08 - 11:30 AM (#2339333) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST,Volgadon Laying the obnoxious dialect aside, do the words follow proper grammar, or is it just infitives? I go house, anyone? " "Shool-a-run" actually comes frae th' Irish Gaelic (forgie me for wrichtin' Scots Gaelic an' omittin' accents, I dinnae hae th' Irish wairds printit oot) wairds "Siubhal"--meanin' travel-- an' "Run" meanin' someane verra dear. So th' narrator's nae babblin' like an' eejit, she's lamentin' th' fact that her love maun gae travellin' aff, an' possibly sayin' sumpit tae th' effect o' "sure, gae aff an' leave me, I'll jist sit here on ma hill wi'oot ma spinnin' wheel an' SUFFER..." " |
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31 Jan 09 - 08:38 PM (#2554105) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST,Lisa Here's my version of this little ditty when I was back at camp about 40 years ago: Flea (this word as well as each line is repeated) Flea fly Flea fly flow Vista Coomalata Coomalata Coomalata Vista Oh, no no no no no vista Eenie meenie deci meenie Oo watch a walla meanie Exa meanie solla meanie Oo watch a wha Big billy oten doten Bo bo ba deeten dotten Shhhhhhhhh (and you'd put your hands together and make a fish motion) 40 years later, I still say it every once in a while. It brings a smile to my face. |
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17 Mar 09 - 04:48 AM (#2590798) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST,Kevin Z. Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: rick fielding Date: 31 Jan 99 - 12:16 PM can anyone remember: "iss biddly oten doten bobo". I can swear I heard my mother (singing?) that when I was an impressionable youth. Felix Unger (Tony Randall) sings something like this on an episode of the 1970s series The Odd Couple: "Skiddle-ey biddle-ley oten boten good bye Sue!" or something to that effect. It's likely some old scat singing phrase. |
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16 Aug 10 - 02:05 AM (#2966149) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST,AJ Well accordin to the net it means if it be so music from the mouth |
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17 Aug 10 - 12:33 AM (#2966878) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: MGM·Lion Re all the speculations thruout this thread [some convincing, others perhaps less so] that the words in the thread-title are a garbled version of meaningful Gaelic phrases: it might not be out of place to remind here of the send-up of such interpretations in the well-known students' song which travesties Scottish balladry, Phearson swore a feud Upon the Clan McTavish", where the chorus goes Cammer-oo cammer-i cammer-o Cammer-oo cammer-i cammer-oris Cammer-oo cammer-i cammer-o ~~ And that's the Gaelic chorus! ~Michael~ |
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17 Aug 10 - 02:46 PM (#2967283) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: scowie I agree with an earlier post from Sean Mac Ruaraiah, stating these choruses formerly had meaning, even if they have lost them of late. I would point anyone interested in the direction of "The Druid Source Book" ISBN 1 86019 8422 and particular to the chapter by Charles Mackay, on "Druidical Chants Preserved In The Popular Songs Of England, Scotland,Ireland and France. It is eye-opening! I did not fully believe it all, untill I had it examined by an old Gaelic fluent friend Dicky Lett, of the sainted memory! who to my amazement confirmed all the chapter contains. I sugest any doubters do the same, and examine this text. Sorry I am technically incapable of helping you further. Good Luck, Scowie. |
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18 Dec 10 - 05:59 AM (#3056256) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST,Chrissy One reading most of these posts I think the origins of 'musha ring dumma do damma da' are lost in 'antiquity'. BUT in reply to Roger in Baltimore waaay back in '99 about the song 'Wimoweh' it is actually a South African song written in 1939 by Solomon Linda titled 'Mbube Wimoweh' which translates as 'The Lion Sleeps'. And in response to Joe Offer in '99 Abiyoyo was also a South African folk tale made into a song by the wonderful Pete Seeger. |
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14 Jan 11 - 02:52 PM (#3074642) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST,bev. in pgh I would love to have copies of the 2 albums from the star of david singers. I had tapes that i cant find. We went to Faith Community in south hills of pgh. where i met chrissy rogers. and the star of david singers. The music was timeless and very encouraging. ty. |
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28 Jan 11 - 04:23 PM (#3084282) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST I think the lyrics once meant "Whiskey, the water of life" but have been sung by so many, so many times they now mean nothing. Hope this helps.J.Leach-Clark |
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28 Jan 11 - 04:30 PM (#3084286) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST,J. Leach-Clark/guest I think the lyrics once meant "Whiskey, the water of life" but have been sung so often, by so many, they don't mean anything in their current state. Hope this helps. J.Leach-Clark |
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24 Feb 11 - 10:25 AM (#3101923) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST,Rumbz I stumbled upon this trying to find if the words we sang as a war cry at school actually meant anything. Devastated to find that flee fly is a song but quite pleased that the non commercial version is quite popular too. to add something to the mix, there was a song i learnt at school when i was about 7 and the words were marezy-dotes and dozy dotes and liddy lambsy ivey a kiddle dee divey doo, wood ant you. (thats about as phonetic as i can get) and then next verse which we learnt when we were 8 was if the words sound queer and funny to your ear a little bit jumbled and jive-y, sing mares eat oats and goats eat oats and little lambs eat ivy.... leaving me to assume the next line was a diw would eat ivy too, wouldn't you(?/ wood and chew. i don't know but this makes me smile everytime it pops in my mind. gutted about flee fly. |
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04 May 11 - 10:27 AM (#3147711) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST,Mario I'm Romanichal- I type of Gypsy originating in England since pre-1500's. You can Wiki it. We were persecuted by the English as were the Irish. The "highway man" lifestyles most certainly intersected. In the Romanichal dialect this phonetic correlation: "musha ring dumma do dumma da" "Musha ring te m'dood te m'da", which translates to: "The man's Ring for my star, for my Mom". This fits perfectly with the stort from the song and validates the next line: "Whack for my Daddy-O" which I like to believe is actually "Worked for my Daddy-O". |
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15 Nov 11 - 05:45 AM (#3257308) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST,BrightonBo "musha ring dumma do dumma da, Whack for my Daddy-O" There is no question that the chorus is in Martian in order that our green brethren can sing along too! Personally, after I've had my head buried in the Jar-O for any significant period, I prefer to translate the English lyrics into Saturnalian, which translates into: "shhhllllerrr, shhhllllerrr, I 'kin love you, shhhllllerrr, outside you ****, whack, thwack, zzzzzzzzz". |
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15 Nov 11 - 04:14 PM (#3257659) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: moecurlythanu Does anyone know what the Irish exclamation means that sounds something like "haronumon jowl?" It shows up in "Daniel O'Connell" by Johnny McEvoy, as well as other songs. |
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07 Jun 12 - 12:11 AM (#3360342) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST Seems natural to us - but the whole family has Tourette's Syndrome as it turns out & we tend to an odd, jangling pattern of speech |
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07 Jun 12 - 04:26 AM (#3360381) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST,P.J.Reilly "haronumon jowl?" Probably a corruption of the Gaelic "In ainm an diabhail", which roughly translates as "in the name of the devil". |
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03 Jun 13 - 05:40 PM (#3522386) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST,Vic Newfie Not a song but my grandfather with both Irish and Scottish roots always used to say this verse: Onery oogery iggery Anne, fillisy, follisy, Nicholas John, coovery kivery Irish Mary, stickler em stackle em Buck! Anyone have any idea where this came from. My pop never knew where he heard it or how he came to remember it. Newfoundland where I am from is the most Gaelic influenced culture outside of Ireland, but for 30 years the meaning or origin of this "poem" or "verse" has been all but lost over here on this side of the pond. I am sure my attempt at the syntax of the words are pathetic however if said out loud it sounds right! Any help would be appreciated. Even the Dean of Folklore at Memorial University of Newfoundland was baffled! Then again, pop was a bit of a cracker........ Maybe he made it all up! |
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03 Jun 13 - 10:03 PM (#3522456) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Seamus Kennedy Guest Vic - your grandfather's words would fit to the Scottish song "Rothsea-O". Here: |
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04 Jun 13 - 01:37 PM (#3522685) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: eftifino Jack, You're quite right. Lilting or 'Gob Music' was the way those without instruments were taught and learned Irish music, especially during the years where Irish Instruments, music, dance or language had to go underground due to the Penal Laws enacted by those poor misguided souls who thought that they were better than any other race in the world.. |
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23 Apr 17 - 01:59 PM (#3852033) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST,Robert I was just doing some drama homework, researching a warm up that we do and I came across this amazing 'chat' from 1999! But anyway, The drama warm up is called kumala vista amd it's another 'nonsense song' and I just realised halfway through typing this that no-one is probably going to see this. :( |
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23 Apr 17 - 07:13 PM (#3852065) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Jackaroodave I'm so glad you revived this, Robert! I've been searching for decades for a song that was a hit in central Connecticut around 1962 for about a week, then disappeared. From a Mudcat thread on children's chants, I picked up part of it: atchi katchi boomeratchi (or Liberace). I love you. And then on this thread, another part: kumala kumala kumala vista I can also recall 5-10-15-20 We don't stop till we get plenty Googling these got me to this here wonderful article containing multiple variants of all kinds of children's nonsense rhymes and counting games from all over the world. The article mentions and quotes some commercial songs from 1940s country, 1960s doo wop, and recent rap, all based on those rhymes. But not the one I'm after.Thanks to Mudcat's totally unexpected help, I feel I'm closing in, and I wonder if anyone has ever heard of it. It was called something like "The Mongolian Cavalry Fight Song," and if anyone knows anything about it, they'd earn my undying gratitude if they shared it. |
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24 Apr 17 - 06:42 AM (#3852120) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST,Desi C You're exactly right Roger, they originate from Ceilidh's where callers would often add such phrases merely from the effort of dancing and songwriters aopted the technique just to fill in the spaces so to speak, common in other forms of music too |
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24 Apr 17 - 07:08 AM (#3852125) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST,Robert I'll be sure to check out that article in a minute! I'll try to find something about The Mongolian Cavalry Fight Song later. |
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24 Apr 17 - 10:38 AM (#3852163) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST,Beachcomber Peter, Paulm & Mary had a version of a song, that is in the Burl Ives Songbook, with a chorus that went something like this :- "Shoolie, shoolie, shoolie too, shoolie sackaraka bib - a lib -a-boo, If I should die for Sally-bob-o-link; Come bib-a-lib-a-boo sa roora" Really. That was originally an Irish song with the following chorus :- (phonetically) "Shuil, shuil, shuil a ruin; Shuil gu suckir ogus shuil gu quun; Shuil gu dee an doras ogus aye stig lum, Gus go merrit uu mu voorneen slawn" translates like " Walk, walk, walk, loved one, Walk carefully and quietly, Walk to the door and listen to me. That you may survive in good health " |
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24 Apr 17 - 06:33 PM (#3852247) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Helen GUEST,Chrissy, on 18 Dec 10 - 05:59 AM wrote: "in reply to Roger in Baltimore waaay back in '99 about the song 'Wimoweh' it is actually a South African song written in 1939 by Solomon Linda titled 'Mbube Wimoweh' which translates as 'The Lion Sleeps'." Here is the original version: Solomon Linda &The Evening - Mbube And here is a beautiful version by Miriam Makeba - The Lion Sleeps Tonight Helen |
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24 Apr 17 - 06:58 PM (#3852255) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Gallus Moll A good number of years ago a folk researcher in the North of Scotland, maybe Caithness? recorded an old chap singing a fragment of a song which had what seemed to be a nonsense chorus- - - till it was later realised the fragment was a ballad about King Orfeo and the chorus was in fact the remnants of an old language called Norn. I can't remember the details now - thio I think Archie Fisher might sing (or used to sing) the song -- maybe something in John Purser's book, I shall look when I have time. (I may have heard it on his brilliant 30 episode series on the Music of Scotland which BBC Radio Scotland broadcast many years ago) |
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24 Apr 17 - 08:13 PM (#3852257) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Jackaroodave There"s a fascinating thread on the refrain of King Orfeo here. There's quite a story not only to the refrain, but the tune as well. Please check it out if you're interested in how an ancient Greek myth winds up in the Shetlands with a Norn refrain. |
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25 Apr 17 - 04:35 AM (#3852297) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Thompson "Musha" is the englishing of the Irish Má is ea - "if it is so"; the ring-dum-a-doo-rum-da is port bhéil, or "mouth music", as far as I know. |
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25 Apr 17 - 01:49 PM (#3852391) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST,Gallus moll See theres a king orfeo thread farther up the forum!! |
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07 Aug 18 - 05:59 AM (#3942167) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST,Pickles Your all stupid it's a old saying that mean run in the dark |
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07 Aug 18 - 06:01 AM (#3942168) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST,Pickles Wack fol the daddy ol |
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07 Aug 18 - 06:08 AM (#3942169) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST Irish folk songs rock harder than any other |
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09 Aug 18 - 03:50 PM (#3942764) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST,Dr John It's a reference to legendary voodoo queen, Masha "Rum Dum" du Lada. Besides casting spells she also brewed up moonshine in the swamps of Lousiana. |
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15 Mar 21 - 04:45 AM (#4097700) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST i have no knowledge of this but just to say, when i hear the song and the musha ring.... chourus plays, i can only picture in my mind a leprechaun talkingbto himself. |
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17 Mar 21 - 10:00 AM (#4098049) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Gallus Moll Apologies if this has already been mentioned, not had time to read the whole thread - and I am doing this off the top of my head! - a while back an old man was recorded (in Shetland / Orkney?) singing what he had learned as 'nonsense' words - fortunately someone recognised them as being fragments of Norn, an old language, thought to have been lost.... was it a ballad about Orfeo, King Orfeo? Think maybe Archie Fishjer sings it..... Guess I should have checked my facts before posting, but perhaps someone else will do that before I get around to it! Anyway, it confirms the possibility of nonsense words having been misheard . misunderstood language --- similar to mondegreens?! |
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19 Mar 21 - 03:19 PM (#4098379) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Geordie-Peorgie Ah alwez text the audience that “Musharing Dumma doo dum dah” meant “Buy the bearded guy with the guitar a pint!” And “Whack fol the daddio’ meant “Make it a double!” |
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19 Mar 21 - 03:24 PM (#4098380) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Geordie-Peorgie Here’s a more up-to-date birra nonsense! https://youtu.be/cL7jyXCQ2Zc |
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19 Mar 21 - 03:26 PM (#4098381) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Geordie-Peorgie Oops! Try this https://youtu.be/cL7jyXCQ2Zc |
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20 Mar 21 - 06:56 AM (#4098480) Subject: RE: synchronicity From: Felipa and just yesterday I was reading an old interview with Bill Vanaver in which he spoke about doing a drama based on the tale of King Orfeo (See message from Gallus Moll 17 March (a repeat of a message from Apr 2017) |
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21 Feb 24 - 08:52 PM (#4197699) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST,Someguy ASK the remaining members of Thin Lizzy what it means!! |
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22 Feb 24 - 09:52 PM (#4197757) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Mrrzy My theory was always they were a check on the singer's sobriety. If you can't sing whack fol the diddle really fast, it's time to switch to plain drinking and let someone else sing. |
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23 Feb 24 - 02:34 AM (#4197762) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Thompson It translates more or less exactly as "Fol de lol, lallay". |
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23 Feb 24 - 09:02 AM (#4197774) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Steve Gardham Whilst the vast majority of these chorus vocables are just that, and can be found in all genres of music, a notable few can be traced back to meaningful statements. Check out the 'rigdum' threads for instance. The long string of seeming nonsense that occurs in some versions of 'Froggy' can be traced back to early eighteenth century camp-followers cant. Some like 'derry down' are so old and ubiquitous that we will probably never know if they had a meaning. |
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23 Feb 24 - 07:07 PM (#4197794) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: GUEST,Nick Dow I always considered the vocables attached to many folk songs to be based on the accepted local utterance for mouth music, or a Canntaireachd tune system. The latter is less likely unless there is a thriving tradition within the area. |
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24 Feb 24 - 02:56 PM (#4197878) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Steve Gardham Might well be, Nick, that that is a small part of it, but they are found in nearly all genres of music. The vast collection c1825 of The Universal Songster is full of them, and plenty of Tudor court songs have them, Hey, Nonny No? Some of them are just there to give the soloist a rest and think of the next verse, and some are there to test sobriety of the singers, and some you need an A-level for....Even, dare I say it, Child Ballads have them in abundance. |
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24 Feb 24 - 03:03 PM (#4197879) Subject: RE: meaning - musha ring dumma do dumma da From: Mrrzy I still like my idea. |