|
11 Mar 06 - 03:19 PM (#1690745) Subject: Can you ID this tune? From: GUEST,Bob Coltman I am seeking the source of an old familiar tune. It was used in the 1920s for (at least) "I Don't Reckon It'll Happen Again" by Uncle Dave Macon and others: I don't reckon it'll happen again For months and months and months... and also for one version of "The Old Maid and the Burglar": About nine o'clock an old maid came in, I'm so tired, she said, Thinkin' everything would be all right, she forgot to look under the bed... as well as more recent songs like one strain of Woody Guthrie's "Don't You Push Me Down." I am convinced the tune is far older, going back into the 19th century. Here is its ABC: E E E E E E E, E E D E F F F F F F F F F G F E D E (like line 1) F F F F F F F F G F E D C It sounds like a march tune, perhaps from Spanish Civil War days or even earlier. I keep thinking I know what the precursor is, but you know how it is... I can't call it to mind. (It's not "Jingle Bells," though that's similar in some ways.) I have a feeling it is one of those primal tunes that has been used for many, many songs. Can anyone tell me what the original tune / song is?? And can you think of other songs that have used it since? Thanks! Bob |
|
11 Mar 06 - 03:59 PM (#1690780) Subject: RE: Can you ID this tune? From: Little Robyn 'It ain't gonna rain no more....' Robyn |
|
11 Mar 06 - 06:09 PM (#1690859) Subject: RE: Can you ID this tune? -Don't Reckon It'll Happ From: Jeri It might just be one of those collective consciousness tune thingies. I'm getting "blow up your TV" or a polka. Are you hearing, "Smoke Coca-Cola cigarettes, drink Wrigley's Spearmint beer? Are there oom-pahs involved? I'm coming real close to thinking of an old march tune, but then, The Chicken Dance pushes it out of the way. |
|
12 Mar 06 - 08:37 AM (#1691152) Subject: RE: Can you ID this tune? -Don't Reckon It'll Happ From: GUEST,Bob Coltman Yes, "Ain't Gonna Rain No More" is analogous, but a third lower. Sort of like a harmony to it. Oompahs? They would definitely fit. But something nags at me...something older. I'm still thinking 19th century march. Pre-Souza, I should think. Oompahs would definitely fit. As to polka, I'm not sure, and though I grew up in Pennsylvania trying to close my ears to "The Pennsylvania Polka," I know very little about polka history. Does anyone out there know the march (and polka) repertoire, especially the older variety, who might know of a match? Puzzler! -- Bob |
|
12 Mar 06 - 08:39 AM (#1691154) Subject: RE: Can you ID this tune? -Don't Reckon It'll Happ From: GUEST,Bob Coltman And yes, as far as I'm aware, "The Billboard Song" does use the same tune. |
|
12 Mar 06 - 08:51 AM (#1691159) Subject: RE: Can you ID this tune? -Don't Reckon It'll Happen.. From: Ron Davies Mark Gillston, I believe, sings the "Don't Reckon.."--maybe he knows the origin. But I don't think he's a Mudcatter--and I have no idea where he is now. |
|
12 Mar 06 - 11:24 AM (#1691266) Subject: RE: Can you ID this tune? -Don't Reckon It'll Happen.. From: Mark Ross DON'T RECKON was recorded by Michael Cooney, I think it was on a Folk Lethargy album. Mark Ross |
|
12 Mar 06 - 01:56 PM (#1691344) Subject: RE: Can you ID this tune? -Don't Reckon It'll Happ From: Jeri I knew I remembered something I'd actually played before. Try Les Fraises et les Framboises It's more the B part than the A. From this page: Source for notated version: transplanted French-Canadian fiddler Omer Marcoux {1898-1982} (Concord, New Hampshire), who "learned (the tune) in the crib" [Miskoe & Paul]. Miller & Perron (New England Fiddlers Repertoire), 1983; No. 157. Miskoe & Paul (Omer Marcoux), 1994; pg. 36. Page (Ralph Page Book of Contras), d1969; pg. 9. Sweet (Fifer's Delight), 1965/1981; pg. 59. It's probably got roots that are far older than the 1890's. |
|
12 Mar 06 - 02:17 PM (#1691357) Subject: RE: Can you ID this tune? -Don't Reckon It'll Happen.. From: kendall There was a guy here who called himself Lazy Jim Day who used to sing that song. The version of the Old Maid I know is in 6/8 time. |
|
12 Mar 06 - 02:27 PM (#1691370) Subject: RE: Can you ID this tune? -Don't Reckon It'll Happen.. From: Jim I Lonnie Donegan's "My Old Man's a Dustman" is a lot like the version I sing of the Old Maid song although Jeri's suggestion "Les Fraises et les Framboises" is closer to the version that used to be on Honking Duck which I think is the version meant here. |
|
13 Mar 06 - 07:53 AM (#1691907) Subject: RE: Can you ID this tune? -Don't Reckon It'll Happ From: GUEST,Bob Coltman Jeri, thanks, good catch! If Marcoux heard "Les Fraises" in the cradle, that puts it around 1890-1900, all right. I've heard another French-Canadian source use it in the 1930s as a children's song, probably learned at about the same date. It evidently has its origin in Paris -- perhaps a music-hall song of the late 19th century??? I suppose the composers of "I Don't Reckon It'll Happen Again" could have heard "Les Fraises et les Framboises," say from a French source in New York c. 1910 (I'm not sure when the original was written -- anyone know???), either on the street or on the stage -- stranger things have happened. I wonder, though. Is the French children's street rhyme really the original? Are there any British or American children's songs that also use the tune? What about rope skipping rhymes? And could there be an earlier common ancestor? Still sounds like a march to me. Also, only the first two lines of the four-line "Fraises" refrain really match the "I Don't Reckon" tune. I still think there's a different tap root someplace. Masato? Joe Offer? Anyone want to weigh in on the tune's origins in the dim and distant past? Bob |
|
14 Mar 06 - 07:36 AM (#1692997) Subject: RE: Can you ID this tune? -Don't Reckon It'll Happ From: GUEST,Bob Coltman Regrettably, on listening harder to "Les Fraises," it's similar but really not that close, and the feeling is altogether different. Just try singing the words to "Fraises" to the "I Don't Reckon" tune, and you'll see what I mean. Different tempo, rhythm, and the melody diverges by the end of the first line. BTW, another later song that uses the tune and tempo is Ed McCurdy's 1950s "Portland County Jail." Also in the 50s, if I remember aright, Oscar Brand used it for his wonderfully goofy song about running booze into Canada which I think is called "Bootlegger's Song." But I think we need to look further, and most of all, further back. Bob |
|
14 Mar 06 - 08:41 PM (#1693870) Subject: Lyr Add: IT WON'T HAPPEN AGAIN (from Bill Cox) From: Gene A local music friend dug this oldie out for me today. There are only two chords in this version...1/5 pattern IT WON'T HAPPEN AGAIN Bill Cox Susie is my cousin. That's the gospel truth. Three more in the family: Rebbecca, Jane and Ruth. I'll tell you all her troubles she had with William Ryder. He took the poor girl out and treated her and he gave her sour cider. CHORUS: But I don't reckon it'll happen again For months and months and months. I don't reckon it'll happen again For months and months and months. Susie went to supper with that Ryder man. When they passed plate around, she shooed flies with her fan. Oh, you William Ryder! With cider he did load her. She went out and drank like a dadgone mule and she died with hyrer-pho-bie. CHORUS I worked all night the other night. I was tired out and in. When I got up to our door, I walked in with a grin. My wife she said to me, "Bill, we need some safety pins." Just then she turned the cover down. There laid two bouncin' twins. CHORUS An Irishman went to the circus, turned an elephant around. The elephant swatted him with his trunk and he knocked old Paddy down. The Irishman jumped up to his feet, said, "You great big ugly brute! If I knew which end your head was on, I'd punch you in the snoot." CHORUS I went to bed the other night. I dreamed that I was dead. I went right up to the pearly gates and there Saint Peter set. I'd just came up from Charleston. He says, "I do declare! Come right on in. You are the first that ever came from there." CHORUS |
|
14 Mar 06 - 08:56 PM (#1693877) Subject: RE: Can you ID this tune? -Don't Reckon It'll Happen.. From: Charley Noble Bob- Isn't the "Bootlegger's Song" part of the "Wabash Cannonball" family? That's what it sounds like to me, filtered through the years. Charley Noble |
|
15 Mar 06 - 11:30 AM (#1694072) Subject: RE: Can you ID this tune? -Don't Reckon It'll Happ From: Ferrara I can't figure out the tune you're looking for, Dave, but I know this: Those lyrics to "Les Fraises et Les Framboises" are a far cry from the ones recorded by The Kingston Trio or whoever-it-was in the 60's! Jeri thanks! Great, funny, wonderfully bawdy song. |
|
15 Mar 06 - 03:28 PM (#1694304) Subject: RE: Can you ID this tune? -Don't Reckon It'll Happ From: GUEST,Bob Coltman Charley, I seem to remember it to this tune, not to "Wabash Cannonball"...but it's been too long since I heard it, and I can't be sure. Interesting to see the Bill Cox, Gene -- he must have learned it from Macon but adds an extra verse. Bill was a pretty good songsmith and it's probably his. And all hail to Jeri, yes, that's the best set of "Fraises" lyrics ever! BUT...the thread is a-creepin', and...alas... ...we're not getting any closer to the precursor tune, the one before "I Don't Reckon." : ) Can anyone turn it up? Bob |