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21 Mar 06 - 12:03 PM (#1699338) Subject: BS: An American Success Story From: heric "The defendant, 41-year-old Abdul Rahman, was arrested last month after his family accused him of becoming a Christian, Judge Ansarullah Mawlavezada said. Rahman was charged with rejecting Islam. His trial started [and ended] Thursday. During the one-day hearing, the defendant confessed that he converted from Islam to Christianity 16 years ago while working as a medical aid worker for an international Christian group helping Afghan refugees in the Pakistani city of Peshawar, Mawlavezada said. 'We are not against any particular religion in the world. But in Afghanistan, this sort of thing is against the law,' the judge said. 'It is an attack on Islam.'" I'm glad we fixed that place up. blue clicky (Oh, I neglected to mention: It's the death penalty.) |
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21 Mar 06 - 12:58 PM (#1699367) Subject: RE: BS: An American Success Story From: Stilly River Sage Good thing christians don't hold other people's religions against them, or fight holy wars. Right? |
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21 Mar 06 - 01:12 PM (#1699383) Subject: RE: BS: An American Success Story From: Amos We are doing a wonderful job exporting democracy to such places; but why, do you suppose, did we forget the necessary part about seperating Church and State? Something our furless leaders misunderstood, perhaps? A |
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21 Mar 06 - 01:14 PM (#1699389) Subject: RE: BS: An American Success Story From: Wesley S Does Abdul own an oilwell ? For his sake I hope so. |
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21 Mar 06 - 01:21 PM (#1699401) Subject: RE: BS: An American Success Story From: Don Firth Heric, I'm not sure where you're coming from here. I don't see how this is "an American 'success' story." If Abdul Rahman converted to Christianity while working for an international Christian group, then how is that "American?" Such organizations are usually referred to as "non-governmental agencies" because they are not connected to or sponsored by any particular government (the Red Cross or the Red Crescent would be examples). There are many such organizations, often sponsored by one religious group or another, all over the world, and those that are not dedicated solely to evangelism do a great deal of good, frequently helping in areas and in endeavors that governments don't seem to care much about. It sounds like Abdul Rahman was working with such a group (". . . helping Afghan refugees"). The idea that a person could be tried and executed for his or her religious beliefs when those beliefs don't conform to some dogma accepted by the government is an indictment of that government, or any government that allows this sort of travesty to take place—in this case, the Afghani government. Such is the nature of some theocracies. And this is an object lesson to those who don't see any danger in a particular religious group being allowed to have a strong influence political leaders, legislators, the judiciary, and the educational system (see current administration and some state governments). A theocracy is just as dangerous to its own citizens as a fascist government is. One helluva lot things can be justly laid at the door of American foreign policy. But I don't see how the ordeal that Abdul Rahman is facing is one of them. Don Firth |
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21 Mar 06 - 01:43 PM (#1699429) Subject: RE: BS: An American Success Story From: heric I don't really know where I'm coming from either, Don, except that maybe Bush was just as right before the first election that we shouldn't engage in "nation-building," as he is wrong for "his" doctrine of preemptive war. If the vast majority of the population would prefer a theocracy (as in Afghanistan, more so than Iraq), it seems that "promoting democracy" (especially by force!) is like pissing in the wind. I've been surprised to read in the Indian press that the majority there seem to approve of the Afghanistan operations, as much as they disapprove of the Iraq fiasco. But beyond cleaning out the rat's nest of training camps, can nothing further be accomplished? (I asume they approve of the sweeping up operations - it can't be over the "progress" made in (shall we call it) nation-building.) I think Amos is right that the Bush people must have thought, to the extent they think at all, that the availablity of democratic mechanisms would blossom over theocratic predelictions, when it just ain't that way. I'm just generally bummed about the state of affairs and the prospects for the middle-term future. |
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21 Mar 06 - 02:11 PM (#1699465) Subject: RE: BS: An American Success Story From: Bee-dubya-ell Of course it's a success story! Instead of a discredited group of whacked out religious fanatics jailing, beating and executing people for not toeing the line on Islam, there is now an accredited group of whacked out religious fanatics jailing, beating and executing people for not toeing the line on Islam. See the difference? |
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21 Mar 06 - 02:59 PM (#1699509) Subject: RE: BS: An American Success Story From: Don Firth Yeah, I'm afraid so. It Presents a glorious example for some of our domestic fundamentalist "Christian" factions to strive for. Monkey see, monkey do. Don Firth (Boy, are they gonna be on my case for saying that!) |
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21 Mar 06 - 03:16 PM (#1699526) Subject: RE: BS: An American Success Story From: frogprince Don, have you been back to the "atheists and morality" thread to see the link to the article on "Biblical" discipline of children? If any sadistic sunuvabitch can justify that as "Christian", I would say all bets are off as to what measures he would eventually justify to keep adults "in line" by his definitions. |
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21 Mar 06 - 04:10 PM (#1699571) Subject: RE: BS: An American Success Story From: Don Firth Just checked it. Gawd, what a disgusting emanation from a collection of sadistic bastards! And they're so damned self-righteous about it! I don't see anything remotely Christian about that catalog of so-called "Biblical" discipline of children. My criterion for what is "Christian" is what Jesus is supposed to have said. Not anything from the Old Testament, or from Paul, or from "John the Revelator." Just the "red letter" editions of the Gospels. And considering the research that some theologians have done lately (the "Q Gospel" research project into the presumed authenticity of the sayings of Jesus) I don't take the Gospels as Gospel. If the teachings of Jesus are consistent at all, I can't see his condoning anything like that kind of corporal punishment for children. And if he didn't, it can't be justified as "Christian." It's just somebody else's half-assed idea--as is so much of what some people are trying to claim is "Christian." I think it's been fairly well established that corporal punishment of children produces adults who are a whole lot less averse to using violence when it suits their purpose. They're taught right from the start by their parents that physical violence is acceptable behavior. When a person--or a nation--resorts to violence, it's because they have lost control of both the situation and themselves. Don Firth |
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21 Mar 06 - 04:25 PM (#1699586) Subject: RE: BS: An American Success Story From: frogprince So glad that those nice folks don't believe in beating children; they just chastize them with a good, solid unbreakable stick until they have to be very discrete about who hears the screaming. If I imagine Jesus catching one of them at it, I see him as stopping them, then there and by such means as necessary. |
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21 Mar 06 - 06:04 PM (#1699660) Subject: RE: BS: An American Success Story From: Bill D 'Theology is the finding of bad reasons for what we already believe or intend to do.' (single quotes because it is a paraphrase/extension of a famous quotation) after awhile in some societies, the theology and the intentions become circular and self-reinforcing. "We do it this way because we have always done it this way, and we can't imagine changing a rule, no matter how it makes us look." |
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21 Mar 06 - 06:23 PM (#1699681) Subject: RE: BS: An American Success Story From: Deckman I find myself more frequantly saying that GAWDS 'gonna get you in trouble ... one way or the other. The Kalavala teaches the Finns that today Urho sits in "the firmament of heaven" laughing at the antics of the people below. To me, that statement is just as valid as anything I've ever read or witnessed within the so called christian faith. Bob(deckman)Nelson |
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21 Mar 06 - 09:14 PM (#1699797) Subject: RE: BS: An American Success Story From: Tig This is about Islamic Fundamentalist doctrine. Destroy the Western powers. When they get nukes they will use them without intelligent thought! Question - do we destroy them now or wait and destroy them simultanously? Those appear to be the only options unless Islamic sanity can be obtained. Fire! The Badger |
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22 Mar 06 - 10:10 AM (#1700198) Subject: RE: BS: An American Success Story From: heric If a child is born into Islam, he can never turn away, or he shall be killed by the government. |
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22 Mar 06 - 11:40 AM (#1700279) Subject: RE: BS: An American Success Story From: Ebbie Interesting development today. In their search for a way around Islamic law in Afghanistan they may have found a means. Evidently world opinion is not in sympathy with the law. Mentally Unfit? |