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30 Mar 06 - 10:19 AM (#1706606) Subject: BS: Car parking in the UK - an observation From: Dave the Gnome I live and work in Manchester, UK. Most work days I run my wife into the centre of town and then drive back out to Salford Quays where I work. I also travel extensively around the UK to customer sites as part of my job. Now, it is well known that traffic is getting heavier and with that drivers are becoming more frustrated, leading to many other problems, but what I want to discuss is parking, waiting and loading. Anyone noticed the number of cars, lorries and coaches that now quite happily block roads while they drop off, deliver or just wait around? If you didn't know, some time ago (2000?) parking offences became de-criminalised and the jurisdiction (sp?) for keeping our roads moving passed from the police to local authorities. What has happened is that local authorities now use this power simply to generate income and have passed the task on to private companies who just want to make money for themselves. They do not have the inclination - nor, I believe, the power to 'move people on'. In the past a policeman or properly authorised traffic warden would see, for instance, a lorry off-loading in the wrong place at the wrong time and would empowered to get the driver to move there and then or face arrest. Not now. This morning alone I saw 3 major roads into Manchester reduced to one lane by delivery vehices. Parking attendants are not interested. It does not generate income for their private companies. What is more the moneys generated for these private companies is not being put back where it needs to go - Into public transport to cut down the number of vehicles on the road and requiring parking space! Point of this? Well, none really. Just fancied a rant on a quiet Thursday afternoon before having to pick my way between bread vans, brewery drays and swarms of coaches double parked while they load senior citezens just back from a show at the Lowry;-) Anyone any idea how we can remedy this? Anyone interested? Cheers Dave the Gnome |
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30 Mar 06 - 10:21 AM (#1706608) Subject: RE: BS: Car parking in the UK - an observation From: Dave the Gnome Oh - and I have both a motor cycle and pedal cycle that I use whenever I can. Mrs G cannot use either. Public transport from where we live to where we want to get to is beyond a joke - Just to pre-empt those comments:-) |
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30 Mar 06 - 10:26 AM (#1706615) Subject: RE: BS: Car parking in the UK - an observation From: Mr Red On my way to Heathrow we had just such. Coach sits in the road 5 minutes because a lorry is delivering, The driver can't get past and I thought - leave it long enough the police will be around and book the offender. All he had to do was park about 5 yards back. Unless it was the Chelsea Tractor who parked askew on the other side after him. AND THAT'S ANOTHER THING.................................. |
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30 Mar 06 - 10:33 AM (#1706622) Subject: RE: BS: Car parking in the UK - an observation From: Dave the Gnome Not sure if the police even CAN book the offender Mr R. - If they are loading or unloading it comes under the same general scope as parking. Local authority / private company = no power of arrest! I think that is part of the problem. Now, if you were to ring the police and say if it isn't moved in 5 minutes you will shoot them... (Not that I condone either real or implied shootings of course!) :D |
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30 Mar 06 - 10:46 AM (#1706634) Subject: RE: BS: Car parking in the UK - an observation From: John MacKenzie Loading and unloading guidelines at the bottom of this page. LGV drivers are restricted in their hours of work, and need to be able to load and unload to get the job done within their allowed hours. If the driver is doing multi drops than he must do them in the order that they are loaded as he can't get past one delivery to get to another. So he does not have the option to go to his next drop and come back when he can get parked, in addition his next delivery could be many miles away. While I sympathise with the plight of the motorist, there is another side, and if all jobs were as legally controlled as that of a commercial driver, there would be a lot more unhappy people out there. Giok |
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30 Mar 06 - 10:52 AM (#1706639) Subject: RE: BS: Car parking in the UK - an observation From: Dave the Gnome Agreed, Giok - the deliveries have to made. But why at rush hour? Until such a time as the 'rush hour' concept disappears, and I hope with working from home and flexible shifts this is soon, do we not need to ensure deliveries stay away form arterial routes during the busy periods? I am NOT blaming the drivers btw, although they do seem to have their share of pillocks(!), it is the planners and the JIT stock-keepers who are usualy at fault! Just a thought. DtG. |
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30 Mar 06 - 10:53 AM (#1706640) Subject: RE: BS: Car parking in the UK - an observation From: Geoff the Duck The police would be there in seconds to arrest you for threatening to shoot. They won't move the lorry 9 although they should for obstructing a public highway). Quack! GtD. |
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30 Mar 06 - 11:22 AM (#1706661) Subject: RE: BS: Car parking in the UK - an observation From: jonm In a former life, I participated in data analysis for a government survey on the increase in congestion in London, about 1994. We found that the biggest contribution was due to the one-man-operated bus. Funny how that report never saw the light of day! |
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30 Mar 06 - 11:27 AM (#1706666) Subject: RE: BS: Car parking in the UK - an observation From: Hand-Pulled Boy Why can't women reverse into a parking space? They never do. Don't they realise that they then have to blindly reverse out of the space on leaving the car park, often scuffing the adjacent car's bumper or worse. The ones in 4x4's are the worst. My observation. |
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30 Mar 06 - 11:55 AM (#1706687) Subject: RE: BS: Car parking in the UK - an observation From: John MacKenzie Ah but Geoff me old duck, if he's not breaking the law you can't move him, he may be an inconvenience, but he's just one more hurdle in a life fraught with such little foibles. Perhaps one should blame the selfish drivers going in the opposite direction for not allowing space to overtake! Giok |
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30 Mar 06 - 01:53 PM (#1706820) Subject: RE: BS: Car parking in the UK - an observation From: GUEST,DB Just remember that all this started with Thatcher when she championed the 'Free Market'. I am convinced that everything is motivated by profit now and everything else has gone out of the window. Things like planning, social responsibility, civil society, reason and logic etc., etc. have all been sacrificed to the great god PROFIT and hence we get the sort of scenario described by DtG. The triumph of capitalism means that we live in a society as dogmatic and ruled by ideology as the old USSR - but, so far, you don't get sent to Siberia for criticising it - it's only a matter of time! |
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30 Mar 06 - 02:33 PM (#1706847) Subject: RE: BS: Car parking in the UK - an observation From: John MacKenzie Drivers hours regulations are imposed by the common market, and therefore the people doing the deliveries have no leeway. If people would drop their objections to night time lorry movements in built up areas, then many of these deliveries could be done at night when the roads are quiet. Margaret Thatcher had nothing to do with the imposition of these rules. Giok |
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30 Mar 06 - 03:09 PM (#1706882) Subject: RE: BS: Car parking in the UK - an observation From: Dave the Gnome If people would drop their objections to night time lorry movements in built up areas, then many of these deliveries could be done at night when the roads are quiet. Spot on Giok! People want these goods brought in. They want out of season goods. They want choice - but they don't want them delivered! Perhaps the 'out of town' supermarket DOES have some good points and they are not the complete devil everyone says? At least you can deleiver to Tesburymorisdas off exit 3 of the M847 anytime! Keep the ideas coming:-) DtG |
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30 Mar 06 - 04:23 PM (#1706931) Subject: RE: BS: Car parking in the UK - an observation From: Liz the Squeak I beg to differ on the 'women can't park' comment.... I've never had much trouble parking either by parallel, reverse or other methods.... but I've frequently nipped out and re-parked the car after Manitas has buggered about with it for 20 mins. LTS |
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30 Mar 06 - 05:01 PM (#1706952) Subject: RE: BS: Car parking in the UK - an observation From: Becca72 I learned how to parallel park a 1979 Dodge Diplomat (read Land Yacht) and can now do it almost blindfolded. Thanks, Dad, BTW. I am perfectly capable of backing into a space if needed, but my opinion is, why bother? You have to reverse in one direction or the other so what's the big deal. I also think this is a rather petty argument to pin on the ladies...I've known plenty of men who can't park at all. |
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30 Mar 06 - 05:11 PM (#1706963) Subject: RE: BS: Car parking in the UK - an observation From: JohnInKansas A "partial solution" used in my area is designated "Loading Zones" in commercial business areas. Each zone is generally a space about the size where 2 to 3 passenger cars could parallel park, and sits empty most of the time. The "waste of spaces" rouses the ire of those looking for a place to park their passenger car; but the space can only be legally used by vehicles with a "commercial registration" and typically has a 15 or 20 minute time limitation posted. In some places, a non-commercial driver is allowed to use a Loading Zone to drop off or pick up passengers, but usually at least the driver must "remain with the vehicle," and in some places technically must move on if requested. In other places this usage is restricted to places marked as a "Passenger Loading Zone." While the police here will place a citation on an "illegal" user's vehicle, the adjacent business, with proper posting of warnings, can call a commercial towing business to have illegals towed and impounded. This has some effect, but the business operators' passion for "not affending anyone" often results in "offending almost everyone" by their tolerance for improper blocking of the spaces. The problem remains that some local delivery trucks are too large to get in and out of the designated zones, so they still "park" in the traffic lanes for deliveries and pickups; and this remains a legal activity. Since it's a "judgment call" on the part of the driver, it's difficult to enforce failure to get (completely) out of a traffic lane, even when there is an adjacent Loading Zone. I will note that in areas in "younger" US cities there are few two-lane streets in commercial areas, so although a delivey van may impede traffic flow, it's unusual to find a place where one blocks traffic. There is nearly always room for drivers to "filter through" in the remaining lanes. (This isn't a rule, just an observation.) John |
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30 Mar 06 - 05:11 PM (#1706965) Subject: RE: BS: Car parking in the UK - an observation From: Big Phil Good to see the 9 - 5 office workers moaning over the truck deliveries. Please do not forget, If you have got it, a truck most probably brought it........... |
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31 Mar 06 - 03:33 AM (#1707314) Subject: RE: BS: Car parking in the UK - an observation From: Dave the Gnome Good to see the 9 - 5 office workers moaning over the truck deliveries. And who might that be, Big Phil? Please give an example of said animal. Thanks in advance DtG |
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31 Mar 06 - 05:34 AM (#1707367) Subject: RE: BS: Car parking in the UK - an observation From: Dead Horse Dont get me started! OK. I'll start. Parking. Both men & women. Reversing out of car parks. Idiots! Use of indicators. Both men & women. Have not the foggiest idea. WHY THE HELL DO THEY INDICATE RIGHT when approaching a roundabout, then go straight across the damn thing, drive on for another hundred yards THEN CANCEL THE INDICATOR. Idiots! Making a right turn. Both men & women. Block the whole lane, rather than moving toward the centre & allowing others to pass. Idiots! Moving off from traffic lights. Mostly women. Waiting til the lights are extremely GREEN (about ten seconds from actually going green) before selecting gear, releasing handbrake, checking make-up in mirror, moving slowly off, thereby allowing maybe two whole vehs to get through the lights before they go to extreme red (way past amber, more like scarlet) Idiots! Parking with headlights on. Both sexes. Usually on the wrong side of road, thereby blinding oncoming motorists. Idiots! Fog lights. Both sexes. Usually still switched on a week after it was foggy. (Fog lights are nearly always more of a hazard than the fog anyway) Idiots! PM me and I will carry on using a seperate page! Idiots!!!! Hrrmmmmmph. Oh yes, not forgetting failing to give way to buses indicating to leave stops, doing absolutely anything to get in front of the bus, not giving a wide enough berth to buses negotiating tight bends/roundabouts etc, parking on bus stops, taxi drivers picking up/setting down at bus stops, folk hanging round bus stops when they dont want the bus, stopping the bus to enquire how long the next bus will be - THIRTY BLOODY FOOT LADY, SAME LENGTH AS THIS ONE!!! Idiots! |
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31 Mar 06 - 05:38 AM (#1707368) Subject: RE: BS: Car parking in the UK - an observation From: Dave the Gnome Hehehehe - certainly flogged it to me dead horse:-) |
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31 Mar 06 - 05:39 AM (#1707369) Subject: RE: BS: Car parking in the UK - an observation From: Dead Horse Does this bus go to Maidstone? No lady. It has Maidstone written on the front. That's the name of the company, lady. It also has India written on the f***king tyres, but I aint f***king going there either! |
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31 Mar 06 - 05:40 AM (#1707372) Subject: RE: BS: Car parking in the UK - an observation From: Dead Horse Guess my occupation. |
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31 Mar 06 - 05:46 AM (#1707374) Subject: RE: BS: Car parking in the UK - an observation From: Dave the Gnome Park keeper? Sagger makers bottom knocker? Seeing as I have realy guessed what you do can I ask a question? Why is, when on a 40MPH road near us, I am doing 40MPH and there is a bus in front of me he slows down to 30MPH. Whereas if there is a bus behind me he wants to do 50MPH and sit in my boot? :-) Cheers DtG |
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31 Mar 06 - 07:09 AM (#1707422) Subject: RE: BS: Car parking in the UK - an observation From: Bunnahabhain Good Rant, Dead horse! Foglights on at noon on a clear day- Usually agressive young drivers, in a small car, often a 20 year old junk heap, but tarted up with some vile shade of purple paint, six exausts, and something they call music beating out at 140 dB! Why! There must be easier ways to find a girlfreind than that. There are noise limits on cars as part of the MOT. These idiots should get fixed penalty notices for excess noise, and have their cars crushed if they get too many...... I don't understand why people don't reverse into parking spaces. You can see much better when you want to pull out onto the main road that way. If you're in a quiet car park it doesn't make much difference, but elsewhere, it's just asking for trouble. |
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31 Mar 06 - 07:30 AM (#1707434) Subject: RE: BS: Car parking in the UK - an observation From: Liz the Squeak Dead Horse - here's another one to add to your list... people (who shall remain nameless but live next door to me) who park their car in such a way as to take up space that any other normal person would have been able to get two vehicles into. They leave just enough space to make you think you'll fit in, only to find that it would take a shoehorn and some fairly serious lubricant to actually manage it. Or those that park over the lines in marked bays so that you can't get back into your car because there's no space to open the door.. Don't get me started on roundabouts and indicators!! Many's the time I've nearly been squished at junctions as a pedestrian... I've run up to cars and asked the driver what the orange lights on the side of the car were for.. they usually look blank and get confused and then you can shout at them! LTS |
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31 Mar 06 - 08:00 AM (#1707462) Subject: RE: BS: Car parking in the UK - an observation From: JennyO I choose to reverse into parking spaces most of the time, except when I am doing supermarket shopping at our local shopping centre. There is no way I can get the supermarket trolley anywhere near the back of the car with a wall or another car at the back of me and cars parked close on either side. I do a lot of driving and can really relate to Dead Horse's rant. I've had lots of days like that. I take it you're a bus driver, Dead Horse? I could add a rant of my own, but I wouldn't know when to stop and life's too short! |
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31 Mar 06 - 08:26 AM (#1707473) Subject: RE: BS: Car parking in the UK - an observation From: jonm In a car park recently, I returned to my car to collect something and a guy had parked a Jeep next to it, very close, and was sat inside it. I had gone in backwards - always do - and he forwards, so he was sat right next to me as I opened the driver's door. Without opening his window, he shouted "Mind my f@*$ing paintwork!" although I had not made contact. So I got into the car, drove out and back into the space such that there was now less than two inches between the car doors, climbed across to the passenger side and got out. My car has no transmission tunnel; I know it's a huge thing on a Jeep and he was not a small guy. While we are ranting, what about the women (it's always women, sorry to those like mrs jonm who put the guys to shame) who drive in the middle of the road and won't move over to give you equal room as you meet them in a narrow street, or between parked cars. It's not a bus, you are still four feet from the kerb! |
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31 Mar 06 - 08:43 AM (#1707490) Subject: RE: BS: Car parking in the UK - an observation From: Dead Horse Dave, the legal speed limit for a bus on stage carriage service (one with a number on da front who keeps pickin up punters) is 30mph. But I didnt tell you that, OK? If he is doing 50 he is obviously late for his lunch break or he is on his last trip before knocking off :-) I always check that car next to me has enough room to open his door in a car park, but am sometimes mortified on returning to find that the car has gone, as has the one the other side and a few others, to be replaced by cars taking up more room. I am left parked so that nothing can park beside me at all. It werent like that when I left it, honest it werent, hofficer! |
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31 Mar 06 - 09:55 AM (#1707544) Subject: RE: BS: Car parking in the UK - an observation From: John MacKenzie My car has only 3 dings on it, all done in supermarket car parks by other persons unknown. I to am an ex driver [LGV] and share Dead's frustration. An HGV is limited to 40mph on an ordinary 2 way road, and has a speed limiter fitted that prevents it from exceeding 90kph, on a motorway, so the driver can't go faster, even if he wants to. Reversing onto the carriageway is illegal in the UK, that means all you stupid buggers who reverse out of your driveway in the morning to go to work! Rant rant!! Giok |
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31 Mar 06 - 04:22 PM (#1707813) Subject: RE: BS: Car parking in the UK - an observation From: Bill Hahn//\\ This thred brings to mind an episode of Monty Python's Personal Best that aired here (U S) last evening. It was Terry Gilliam's hour and he did a brilliant cartoon (graphic) piece on 2 House Hunters--their job was to scout out dangerous houses--houses on the loose--then sneak up and put a condemned sticker on them They collaps and a bulldozer moves the rubble and they open up another PCN Car Park---the House Hunters are employed by PCN Car Park. By the way if you think you have problems there---try going into lower Manhattan on any given day. Very strict parking rules---but not enforced on anyone with a special permit---they cannot be that special since every policeman, judge, etc; has one and parks wherever they damned well please in the courts neighborhood of lower Manhattan. I think those are the same folks that tell the rest of us how wonderful public transit is---and we should do our part and take it. My comment to them---after you Alphonse. Bill Hahn |
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31 Mar 06 - 04:47 PM (#1707838) Subject: RE: BS: Car parking in the UK - an observation From: McGrath of Harlow No problem here in Harlow - the Town Centre has been pedestrianised, so all the deliveries have to be round the back, and we don't have cars driving past the shops in the front other, so we don't have to worry about being run over. Except by motorised wheelchairs, of course, and kids on skate boards, but that's not generally too fatal. ................................ Margaret Thatcher had nothing to do with the imposition of these rules. So who was it signed up to "The Single Act" which gave legal force to all that stuff? |
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01 Apr 06 - 04:48 PM (#1708384) Subject: RE: BS: Car parking in the UK - an observation From: McGrath of Harlow Slipping off the bottom - I didn't mean to prematurely kill this poor thread! Nobody has even mentioned Lovely Rita yet. |
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01 Apr 06 - 05:01 PM (#1708399) Subject: RE: BS: Car parking in the UK - an observation From: Liz the Squeak That's because my borough, when they employ parking attendants, refuse to discriminate against race, colour, creed, ability and now apparently, intelligence. LTS |
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01 Apr 06 - 05:12 PM (#1708415) Subject: RE: BS: Car parking in the US - one difference From: frogprince "Why can't women reverse into a parking space?" In the U.S. it's at least fairly common to see a posted prohibition against backing into a parking space. Personally, I would like to have the option sometimes. Now, having just typed that, I'm wondering if our U.K. folks are referring to parking side-by-side with other cars in a lot, which I was thinking of, or to end-to-end "parallel" parking against the curb. If you mean parking against the curb, for cryin'out loud someone teach them to back in; we have people here who don't get that, too, and they have a heck of a time unless they have an extra space open to manuever. |
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01 Apr 06 - 05:32 PM (#1708434) Subject: RE: BS: Car parking in the UK - an observation From: McGrath of Harlow In the U.S. it's at least fairly common to see a posted prohibition against backing into a parking space. That sounds really silly - I always prefer to back into a parking place if I can, at the supermarket for example, so that I don't have to back out. (Or if there are two rows with a space open I'll drive through the other one so I'm facing out.) Backing out in a car park can be quite a dangerous manoeuvre, especially if there are pedestrians around, and other cars backing out. Someone could get killed. Onn theb other hand the worst that can happen if you back into a space badly is that the cars might get dented. It's a pretty funny sense of priorities that "posted prohibition" seems to indicate. I think the reference was to parking by the kerb (as we spell it). It's part of the driving test, but some people try to avoid it once they've passed the test. I used to have a colleague who came from South Africa - she'd been driving for years, but she'd never learned to reverse to park by the kerb and had great difficulties picking up the skill to pass her test here. She said that back home there was always plenty of room, so noone did it. (That was nothing to do with being a woman.) |
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01 Apr 06 - 06:24 PM (#1708467) Subject: RE: BS: Car parking in the UK - an observation From: Bill Hahn//\\ A few totally unscientific observations re: backing into a parking space---I mean in a lot and not parallel curbside parking. In New York people, mostly, drive in and back out---New Jersey, mostly, the opposite. Backing in causes more problems in holding up the cars behind you and also banging into a parked car. But, since The Sopranos are from New Jersey maybe it makes sense---quick getaways. Bill Hahn |
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02 Apr 06 - 07:43 AM (#1708711) Subject: RE: BS: Car parking in the UK - an observation From: Mrs.Duck The institute of advanced motoring recommend driving into parking spaces and reversing out because there is more space to reverse out. I don't have a link it was a chap on telly. As for at home we have a very narrow drive so have to park hard against the fence which is left as you look at the house so I have no choice as to whether I reverse or drive in and the neighbours have no choice but to do the opposite. |
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02 Apr 06 - 07:15 PM (#1709085) Subject: RE: BS: Car parking in the UK - an observation From: frogprince Yeah, McGrath; given Americans choices in cars, I commonly find I have to back our mid-size sedan out from between two behemoth SUV-osaurs. That means backing out with an angle of vision very little better than the width of my car. "there is more space to reverse out"? I'm not getting that; why say there is more space than to reverse out than there would be to "nose out"? (Not arguing with Mrs. Duck, I know she's quoting not arguing.) |
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02 Apr 06 - 07:44 PM (#1709097) Subject: RE: BS: Car parking in the UK - an observation From: Bunnahabhain there is more space to reverse out I think they mean it is easier to reverse out of the space than it is to reverse into it. Which is true, and if useful if you find reversing difficult. They're assuming the area out of the space isn't filled with idiots who should never had been let near a car. As it normally is, I prefer being able to see that bit better. |
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02 Apr 06 - 08:04 PM (#1709110) Subject: RE: BS: Car parking in the UK - an observation From: Naemanson The only solution I can offer, since I come from one of themost violent nation on the planet (the USA), is High Explosives. |