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30 Apr 06 - 10:52 AM (#1730519) Subject: Origins: Donald Macgillavry From: GUEST,Keith Really like the song as sung by Andy Stewart, but trying to find some history as to exctly what the song is about? Looked up Donald Macgillavry on the internet and found a lot of facts about him as to settling in Ontario etc, but can't seem to find any reference as to what the song is suppose to be about, the Jacobite uprising? I don't know but would greatly appreciate any insight into this. |
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30 Apr 06 - 11:37 AM (#1730539) Subject: RE: Origins: Donald Macgillavry From: Big Tim Here are Ewan MacColl's notes from his 1962 album "The Jacobite Rebellions". "James Hogg, in his Jacobite Relics, places the song as belonging to one of the risings, either 1715 or 1745. MacGillvary of Drumglass is one of the chiefs mentioned in the Chevalier's Muster Roll of 1715: and in the '45 rebellion the powerful clan of McIntosh was led by a Colonel MacGillivary. On the other hand, the names might have been used as a convenient designation for loyal Highlanders. gouk's nest= cuckoo's nest. weigh bank= scales. wud= mad. elwand= measuring rod. rief= banditry. callan = fine fellow. lingel= shoemaker's thread. mumpit wi' mirds= lulled with flattery. blads= large ortions. flyting= scolding." Sadly MacColl's great album has, as far as I know, never been released on CD. (btw, I hope we're talking about the same song)! |
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30 Apr 06 - 02:09 PM (#1730636) Subject: RE: Origins: Donald Macgillavry From: Big Tim According to Black's Surnames of Scotland (the standard work) Macgillivary means 'son of the servant of judgement (doom)'. They were an old Argyll clan or sept. A Farquhar M'Gillevray [sic] of Dunmaglass [sic - seems MacColl got the place name wrong] was one of the signers of the letter to George I in 1715. MacGillivrays [sic] took a prominent part in the rebellion of '45 and their chief is said to have been killed at the battle of Culloden, beside the Well of the Dead. From Johnston's Gazettter of Scotland (second ed. 1958) "Dunmaglass, estate and shooting-lodge, E Inverness-shire, 5.5 miles E[ast].N.E. of Foyers". |
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01 May 06 - 11:42 AM (#1731276) Subject: RE: Origins: Donald Macgillavry From: Big Tim I found the following online. It's taken from "Minor Septs of Clan Chatton" by Charles Fraser-Mackintosh, published in "Celtic Monthly", Glasgow, 1898. "Of Farquhar's three daughters, Janet became Mrs. Donald MacGillivray of Dalcrombie, whose husband was killed near Leys on the after- noon of the 16th April, 1746." (Dalcrombie is 11 miles S.S.W. of Inverness, near Dunmaglass). (Some believe that Hogg wrote the song, others that he merely collected it). |
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01 May 06 - 11:51 AM (#1731282) Subject: RE: Origins: Donald Macgillavry From: GUEST,Jack Campin Hogg inserted that song in his Jacobite Relics, and would have had his readers believe it was traditional. In fact he seems to have written the words himself. The tune is from the middle of the 18th century, "Fairly shot of her" - as far as I know it's only known from Lowland Scottish sources. There must have been a lot of Donald Macgillivrays, but Hogg's was imaginary. |
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01 May 06 - 12:40 PM (#1731305) Subject: RE: Origins: Donald Macgillavry From: Big Tim Accepting the reasonable assumption that Charles Fraser-Mackintosh was a reliable historian, and his articles does seem scholarly, it seems that there was definitely a senior MacGillivary called Donald killed just after the Battle of Culloden (16.4.1746). Leys is just S.E. of Inverness, approx half way between Culloden and Donald MacGillivary's home at Dalcrombie. It would appear that he was caught in the aftermath of the Battle and killed as he tried to reach familiar territory. Whether this was the Donald MacGillivary of the song or not may now be impossible to establish. Much could depend on whether or not Hogg actually wrote the song or not and this may now be impossible to say with certainty. If he did, it's probable that the name is an imaginary one, a possibility suggested by Ewan MacColl, and asserted, without stated evidence, by Jack Campin above. If someone else wrote the song,a northerner for example, possibly associated with the MacGillivary sept, then it could indeed be about the specific Donald killed after Culloden. I would like to think that it's the latter, tho I will always go with the evidence if it becomes available. |
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01 May 06 - 02:18 PM (#1731345) Subject: RE: Origins: Donald Macgillavry From: Effsee "Sadly MacColl's great album has, as far as I know, never been released on CD." Apparently , it has. www.ossian.ie/ Ossian Records: CD10357 The Jacobite Rebellions (with Peggy Seeger; orig. Topic 12T79) |
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01 May 06 - 02:24 PM (#1731352) Subject: RE: Origins: Donald Macgillavry From: Jim McLean The best version, in my opinion is by Alastair McDonald whom I recorded and produced in the late sixties. I'm afraid I find that LP, The jacobite Rebellons on Topic) by Ewan and Peggy to be the worst I have ever heard. The combination of his nanny goat voice with pseudo Scottish accent and Peggy's whine is extremely off putting, to put it mildly. |
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01 May 06 - 02:28 PM (#1731354) Subject: RE: Origins: Donald Macgillavry From: Effsee It's on page 5 of the Other vocal/Folk section of the CDs on that site. |
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01 May 06 - 02:53 PM (#1731367) Subject: RE: Origins: Donald Macgillavry From: Big Tim Thanks Effsee. I know where you are coming from Jim, but I still like it! |
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01 May 06 - 04:06 PM (#1731420) Subject: RE: Origins: Donald Macgillavry From: Jim McLean What do like about it, Big Tim, it's excruciating? I can only shake my head and grind my teeth on hearing it. |
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01 May 06 - 06:13 PM (#1731510) Subject: RE: Origins: Donald Macgillavry From: Big Tim I like the sound. Where did you and Alistair learn the song from? |
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02 May 06 - 04:52 AM (#1731892) Subject: RE: Origins: Donald Macgillavry From: Jim McLean Big Tim, Page 100/101 of The Jacobite Relics of Scotland being THE SONGS, AIRS, AND LEGENDS,OF THE Adherents to the House of Stuart. Collected and Illustrated by James Hogg (sic). Published in Edinburgh 1819. I have lots of old books, including Johnson's Musical Museum, whence I found some interesting tunes and lyrics. I produced a Burns album, a Scottish Battle Ballad album, a Bonnie prince Charlie album and various others for Alastair and I researched all the songs thoroughly. In the fifties I was often in the company of Morris Blythman, Hamish Henderson, Norrie Buchan and Hugh McDiarmid whose combined knowledge of (not only) Scotland and her music was unsurpassable. I consider myself very fortunate to have known them and hope I learned something. |
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02 May 06 - 06:44 AM (#1731921) Subject: RE: Origins: Donald Macgillavry From: Big Tim Thanks Jim. I have just ordered Hogg's two volume work on abe. I was amazed that it is still available and so relatively modestly priced, $100. Just waiting for the postie! I also tried for the MacColl CD but couldn't find a copy. Still, my LP has come through unscathed. If only I knew how to work the record player! (My wife reminded me that she bought me the record as a present soon after we first met in '65). I suspect that the Donald MacGillivary mystery may never be satisfactorily solved, but you never know. Where's Malcom Douglas when you need him? |
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02 May 06 - 09:03 AM (#1731999) Subject: RE: Origins: Donald Macgillavry From: Jim McLean Big Tim, I bought my first two volumes in Paisley in 1953 I think. I gave them to Gordon McCulloch in the early sixties when I was going abroad (again) and they were too bulky to carry (we were both in London at the time). I saw him at Dominic's funeral and he had had them rebound which I thought was rather a shame, but they did look nice! |
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07 Nov 08 - 03:41 PM (#2487881) Subject: Lyr Add: DONALD MACGILLAVRY (from James Hogg) From: Jim Dixon From Hogg, James. The Jacobite Relics of Scotland; Being the Songs, Airs, and Legends, of the Adherents to the House of Stuart. Edinburgh: Printed for W. Blackwood, 1819. (There is also musical notation on that page.) DONALD MACGILLAVRY 1. Donald's gane up the hill hard and hungry, Donald comes down the hill wild and angry; Donald will clear the gouk's nest cleverly, Here's to the king and Donald Macgillavry. Come like a weighbauk, Donald Macgillavry, Come like a weighbauk, Donald Macgillavry, Balance them fair, and balance them cleverly: Off wi' the counterfeit, Donald Macgillavry. 2. Donald's run o'er the hill but his tether, man, As he were wud, or stang'd wi' an ether, man; When he comes back, there's some will look merrily: Here's to King James and Donald Macgillavry. Come like a weaver, Donald Macgillavry, Come like a weaver, Dnnald Macgillavry, Pack on your back, and elwand sae cleverly; Gie them full measure, my Donald Macgillavry. 3. Donald has foughten wi' rief and roguery; Donald has dinner'd wi' banes and beggary: Better it were for Whigs and Whiggery Meeting the devil than Donald Macgillavry. Come like a tailor, Donald Macgillavry, Come like a tailor, Donald Macgillavry; Push about, in and out, thimble them cleverly. Here's to King James and Donald Macgillavry! 4. Donald's the callan that brooks nae tangleness; Whigging, and prigging, and a' newfangleness, They maun be gane: he winna be baukit, man; He maun hae justice, or faith he'll tak it, man. Come like a cobler, Donald Macgillavry, Come like a cobler, Donald Macgillavry; Beat them, and bore them, and lingel them cleverly. Up wi' King James and Donald Macgillavry! 5. Donald was mumpit wi' mirds and mockery; Donald was blinded wi' blads o' property; Arles ran high, but makings were naething, man: Lord, how Donald is flyting and fretting, man! Come like the devil, Donald Macgillavry, Come like the devil, Donald Macgillavry; Skelp them and scaud them that prov'd sae unbritherly. Up wi' King James and Donald Macgillavry! |
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25 Apr 17 - 03:31 PM (#3852402) Subject: RE: Origins: Donald Macgillavry From: GUEST,CFassett I realize this thread is long dead but as I was looking up information on the song I found this source here which includes the source where Hogg claims it as an original composition. Still a great song though |
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25 Apr 17 - 05:44 PM (#3852423) Subject: RE: Origins: Donald Macgillavry From: Jack Campin Thank you! - that is a terrific piece (and should persuade anyone who doesn't already know the song to look it up). |