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the word 'dooring' from Lagan Love

08 May 06 - 11:04 PM (#1735856)
Subject: the word 'dooring' from Lagan Love
From: MAG

The Librarian has discovered that this is an obsolete word for "doorway." It appears in Webster's, 1913.

Rather than bring up any of the old threads on Lagan Love, I thought I'd throw that in.

This makes that verse much less Peeping Tom-ish. Shyly peeping in the doorway at one's love. Yeah, NOT peeking through the keyhole or anything.

I have heard one version of this song with "lull's the eye to sleep." I don't know where this came from, but I like "eve" much better.


09 May 06 - 01:19 AM (#1735956)
Subject: RE: the word 'dooring' from Lagan Love
From: michaelr

"Eve" is, I believe, a mishearing of "e'e" (pronounced "ee"), which is dialect for "eye".

...I think.


09 May 06 - 03:39 AM (#1735993)
Subject: RE: the word 'dooring' from Lagan Love
From: GUEST,Paul Burke

I'd always assumed it was "dooreen", a macaronic diminutive.


09 May 06 - 06:09 AM (#1736058)
Subject: RE: the word 'dooring' from Lagan Love
From: Big Tim

I checked the original publication of the song in "Songs of Uladh {Ulster]" (1904). The word Joseph Campbell, the composer, used was "dooreen". I always took it to mean simply door or doorway.


09 May 06 - 06:45 AM (#1736072)
Subject: RE: the word 'dooring' from Lagan Love
From: GUEST,Paul Burke

You wouldn't care to copy out the text from that would you, Tim? I think the version in DT has quite a few bits that don't sound right to me.


09 May 06 - 07:12 AM (#1736079)
Subject: RE: the word 'dooring' from Lagan Love
From: Big Tim

OK Paul, the following is as per the original.

MY LAGAN LOVE

Where lagan stream sings lullaby
There blooms a lily fair:
The twilight-gleam is in her eye,
The night is on her hair.
And, like a love-sick leanan-sidhe,
She hath my heart in thrall:
Nor life I owe, nor liberty,
For Love is lord of all.

Her father sails a running-barge,
'Twixt Leamh-beag and The Druim;
And on the lonely river-marge,
She clears his hearth for him.
When she was only fairy-high
Her gentle mother died;
But dew-Love keeps her memory
Green on the Lagan-side.

And oft-times, when the beetle's horn
Hath lulled the eve to sleep,
I steal unto her shieling lorn,
And thro' the dooring peep,
There on the crickets' singing stone
She spares the bogwood fire,
And hums in sad, sweet under-tone
The song of heart's-desire.

Her welcome, like her love for me,
Is from her heart within:
Her warm kiss is felicity,
That knows no taint of sin.
And when I stir my foot to go,
'Tis leaving Love and light
To feel the wind of longing blow
From out the dark of night.

Repeat first verse.


09 May 06 - 07:15 AM (#1736081)
Subject: RE: the word 'dooring' from Lagan Love
From: Big Tim

Except that Lagan, in the opening line, should have a capital "l"!


09 May 06 - 09:02 AM (#1736131)
Subject: RE: the word 'dooring' from Lagan Love
From: GUEST,Paul Burke

Thanks, but puzzlement... you said he used "dooreen" in the 1904 version a couple of posts back...


09 May 06 - 12:51 PM (#1736221)
Subject: RE: the word 'dooring' from Lagan Love
From: Big Tim

Sorry Paul, "dooreen" was definitely wrong, a typing error.

It's "dooring", definitely.

I appreciate your attention to detail.

The 1904 book includes on the relevant page a nice illustration by Joseph Campbell's brother, John Patrick Campbell (1883-1962), a talented artist. If you wish, and can get your email address to me, I can send you a copy. Then you will be able to see with your own eyes that it's definitely "dooring" !


09 May 06 - 03:18 PM (#1736374)
Subject: RE: the word 'dooring' from Lagan Love
From: michaelr

And is it really "eve"?


09 May 06 - 04:33 PM (#1736453)
Subject: RE: the word 'dooring' from Lagan Love
From: Big Tim

It's really "eve".

Evening,I'd suggest.

"It seems straightforward to me, but I'll say nuttin", Christy Moore.


09 May 06 - 07:06 PM (#1736579)
Subject: RE: the word 'dooring' from Lagan Love
From: michaelr

Thanks, Tim. All these years I've sung a typo!

Cheers,
Michael


09 May 06 - 07:56 PM (#1736651)
Subject: RE: the word 'dooring' from Lagan Love
From: MAG

clearly the tune and the words are beautiful enough for another round, here.

how do you all feel about skipping the second verse? i find it less mega-beautiful than the other verses myself, tho' it does anchor it in space.

ma, doing thr arcy and mehitabel thing here -


09 May 06 - 08:02 PM (#1736656)
Subject: RE: the word 'dooring' from Lagan Love
From: GUEST,JTT

19th-century English-speakers in Ireland often used "ing" to replace "een" in words that were wavering between English and Irish. For instance, in Dolphin's Barn, where Irish had been spoken 100 years before, people spoke of kippings - small twigs used for setting a fire. The Irish is cipín (pronounced kippeen) and the plural cipíní.


10 May 06 - 02:06 AM (#1736883)
Subject: RE: the word 'dooring' from Lagan Love
From: michaelr

MAG    --    I can't recall hearing a recording that included all four verses. I think that's a shame. Therefore I decided to record the whole song on my band's latest CD. You can hear a clip here.

Cheers,
Michael


10 May 06 - 02:40 AM (#1736905)
Subject: RE: the word 'dooring' from Lagan Love
From: Big Tim

I agree with you MAG.

Well done Michael: congrats.

I included a chapter on My Lagan Love in my 2003 book, One Green Hill; journeys through Irish songs. While not claiming that this account is perfect or definitive, it does give a good deal of background on the song, the relevant geography and the life and times of the man who wrote it. The book is obtainable direct from the publisher's website: Beyond the Pale Publications (Belfast).


29 Aug 09 - 11:49 AM (#2711541)
Subject: RE: the word 'dooring' from Lagan Love
From: Alice

I just listened to a marvelous old recording of My Lagan Love by Liam Devally,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNyz-i-q_jI

and I heard that phrase in a way I never had before, as

"...through the door in peep"

That makes complete sense to me and I wonder if we've been talking about a mondegreen all along.

Alice

PS, thanks to lorgain2 for emailing a link to me of Liam Devally on youtube.


29 Aug 09 - 04:38 PM (#2711682)
Subject: RE: the word 'dooring' from Lagan Love
From: Alice

Adding this:

Hello Alice, ... Joseph Campbell from the north of Ireland and we would have sang it as Dooreen[ little door] an old north of Ireland word, I agree with you comments on Liam Devally an excellent tenor... Oliver.


30 Aug 09 - 06:56 AM (#2712017)
Subject: RE: the word 'dooring' from Lagan Love
From: Big Tim

No Alice! Despite my typo a while back, and despite what anyone says: it's 'dooring', definitely, I have the original book from 1904 in front of me as I type!

If you want to, PM me your email address and I'll scan and attach a copy the original page from 'Songs of Uladh' (1904). I can do the same for 'The Gartan Mother's Lullaby' also.


30 Aug 09 - 10:22 AM (#2712122)
Subject: RE: the word 'dooring' from Lagan Love
From: open mike

perhaps the term is as used in the mudchat
where being doored means being booted out.


31 Aug 09 - 10:15 AM (#2712879)
Subject: RE: the word 'dooring' from Lagan Love
From: Uncle_DaveO

The poet Richard Farina wrote another set of words to this lovely tune, under the title of Lord of All, or maybe it's When Love was Lord of All. Wonderful! I learned it from Pete Seeger's rendition, and revel in its beauty.

Dave Oesterreich


31 Aug 09 - 10:58 AM (#2712908)
Subject: RE: the word 'dooring' from Lagan Love
From: Paul Burke

This is what Sandy Denny sang:

As gentle tides go rolling by,
Along the salt sea strand
The colours blend and roll as one
Together in the sand.
And often do the winds entwine
Do send their distant call,
The quiet joys of brotherhood,
And love is lord of all.

The oak and weed together rise,
Along the common ground.
The mare and stallion light and dark
Have thunder in their sound.
The rainbow sign, the blended flower
Still have my heart in thrall.
The quiet joys of brotherhood,
And love is lord of all.

But man has come to plough the tide,
The oak lies on the ground.
I hear their tires in the fields,
They drive the stallion down.
The roses bleed both light and dark,
The winds do seldom call.
The running sands recall the time
When love was lord of all.


31 Aug 09 - 10:59 AM (#2712909)
Subject: RE: the word 'dooring' from Lagan Love
From: Alice

But Tim, couldn't even an old book that is the first published have a typo?

Alice


01 Sep 09 - 05:17 AM (#2713517)
Subject: RE: the word 'dooring' from Lagan Love
From: Big Tim

It's possible Alice - but it's all we have.


02 Sep 09 - 01:50 AM (#2714310)
Subject: RE: the word 'dooring' from Lagan Love
From: Seamus Kennedy

Alice - a one- or two- letter typo is understandable, but a 3-letter typo, likely not.

Tim, I've heard the word 'dooring' in the North to mean the door-frame.

I learned the song orally, and have been singing "through the half-door peep" incorrectly for many years.

Suppose I'll have to do it right from now on.

Seamus


02 Sep 09 - 04:49 AM (#2714369)
Subject: RE: the word 'dooring' from Lagan Love
From: Big Tim

Hi Seamus, you ould so and so!

I've been downsizing recently and have lost your email.
PM it to me and I'll send you the 1904 thing.


29 Nov 10 - 08:51 PM (#3043230)
Subject: RE: the word 'dooring' from Lagan Love
From: GUEST,Raen

Hi all! I've heard the song sung as "she 'stirs' the bogwood fire" as opposed to "she 'spares' the bogwood fire". can anyone shed some light, because sparing a fire doesn't make much sense to me.


07 Dec 10 - 04:26 PM (#3048315)
Subject: spare the bogwood fire
From: Song of Laila

Hi, all,

Ditto; what could "spare the bogwood fire" mean? unless she's not lit one.

Also, any thoughts on what "lorn" means as in "I steal unto her sheiling lorn?"

Thank you,

Laila


07 Dec 10 - 06:43 PM (#3048412)
Subject: RE: the word 'dooring' from Lagan Love
From: Rumncoke

lorn means lonely or isolated - as in forlorn.

Anne


02 Oct 21 - 09:11 AM (#4121649)
Subject: Spares the bogwood fire
From: GUEST,Michael Lyons

'Spare' in this case means to cover up the glowing fire embers with ashes. This slows the combustion and preserves the embers which can then be used later to restart the fire, for example next morning.