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17 Feb 99 - 04:29 PM (#59009) Subject: A is for 'orses From: Ian Kirk (inactive) We are I guess fairly familiar with the phonetic alphabet A - Alpha B - Bravo C - Charlie D - Delta etc etc I have searched for a long time for the rest of the Cockney version of this system. The bits I have heard are A- for 'orses B- for tea C- for miles I-for emmanuel J-for oranges L-for leather M-for sis Q-for a bus T-for two U-for me Lots of letters missing I know. Any help appreciated. Ian |
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17 Feb 99 - 05:11 PM (#59015) Subject: RE: A is for 'orses From: Barbara Is W - trouble? |
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17 Feb 99 - 06:07 PM (#59030) Subject: RE: A is for 'orses From: AllisonA(Animaterra) A for 'orses, B for mutton, C for yourself, D for dumb, E for Brick; F for vescence, G for police; H for retirement; I for tower; J for oranges; K for teria; L for leather; M for sis; N for dig; O for the garden wall; P for comfort; Q for a bus; R for mo'; S for you; T for two; U for mism; V for la France; W for tune; X for breakfast; Y for husband; Z for breezes. all of the above from "I Saw Esau" edited by Iona and Peter Opie Allison |
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17 Feb 99 - 08:38 PM (#59046) Subject: RE: A is for 'orses From: Jo Taylor Slight variation: O for the wings of a dove, P for ages, Q for a pee...bit rude for the Opies! Umm - don't get H or S or W, could you spell them out?! Can't remember the ones I knew. Jo |
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17 Feb 99 - 10:33 PM (#59055) Subject: RE: A is for 'orses From: Barbara H is age; S is is; I don't hear W either. Double your fortune? |
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18 Feb 99 - 04:50 AM (#59090) Subject: Lyr Add: COCKNEY ALPHABET ("A is for 'Orses") From: MudGuard Could someone please spell out the rest? My guesses: (being German, the A, E, F, G, I, L, N, O, R, U and Z are too hard for me to catch, and I'm not sure about my solution to G, J and M) A for 'orses = ??? B for Mutton = Beef or Mutton C for yourself = See for yourself D for dumb = Deaf or dumb E for Brick = ??? F for vescence = ??? G for police = Chief of Police??? H for retirement = age for retirement I for tower = ??? J for oranges = Jaffa Oranges??? K for teria = Cafeteria L for leather = ??? M for sis = emphasis??? N for dig = ??? O for the garden wall = ??? O for the wings of a dove = ??? P for comfort = Pee for comfort P for ages = Pee for ages Q for a bus/pee = Queue for a bus/pee R for mo' = ??? S for you = is for you T for two = tea for two U for mism = ??? V for la France = vive la France W for tune = double your fortune X for breakfast = eggs for breakfast Y for husband = wife or husband Z for breezes = ??? Andreas |
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18 Feb 99 - 05:38 AM (#59093) Subject: RE: A is for 'orses From: Roger the zimmer This revivied another childhood memory of the (UK) Black Country (West Midlands): my grandfather used to tease me with a dialect version the only bit I can remember is "A for th'oss" (Hay for the horse) .Now you know why we find it difficult explaining Enoch & Eli (Aynuk & Aylai) jokes to "furriners"! |
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18 Feb 99 - 06:18 AM (#59095) Subject: RE: A is for 'orses From: Ian Kirk (inactive) Hi Andreas
Cockney, has a number of characteristics as a regional dialect. One of the most commonly heard is the dropped aitch and the silent 'g'. As in 'arf for half and goin' for going. Which may help to explain why some of the below is unclear. As a South Londoner myself as it 'appens I 'ave a tendency to drop my 'aitches particularly if I get talking to somebody with a strong London accent. At one time Cockney speech was most prevalent amongst the poor and working class districts of the East End of London where I worked for a time. But you now hear variations of it all over the London area from Essex in the North to Kent in the South.
I have recently read The Story of English by McCrum, Cran and MacNeil published by Faber and Faber. It is a fascinating book tracing the spread of English throughout the world and how it has been modified by the population over the countries where it has taken root.
There is a complete chapter on American English and the effect on the use of English in the USA of one Mr Noah Webster the author of Webster's Dictionary. In the first half of the 19th C he dedicated himself to producing books and dictionaries in an attempt to standardize American English. His spelling books were used in schools all over the USA and the method of teaching English at the time was to pronounce each syllable of a word. It is suggested it is one of the reasons why American speech is in the main more measured than it is elsewhere. For example I would pronounce secretary "secretree" whereas an American would be more inclined to say sec-re-tary giving equal weight to each part of the word. I say defence with the stress on the 'f' an American would put the stress on the 'd' and on the f as in deefence.
Anyway back to the subject in hand. I hope my translations help.
A for 'orses = Hay for Horses
If I can 'elp wiv anyfink else givvus a shout Ian |
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18 Feb 99 - 06:30 AM (#59096) Subject: RE: A is for 'orses From: Ian Kirk (inactive) Allison I forgot to say thanks for the post and filling in the gaps
What else is in the book you mention by the Opies. Do you know if it is still in print
Best regards Ian
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18 Feb 99 - 07:50 AM (#59102) Subject: RE: A is for 'orses From: Steve Parkes Zephyr breezes! [= zed for ..] My mom used to quote bits of tis when I was a kid, but she could never remember all of it. I'll pass it on to her complete. There was a British quick-fire patter double act in the thirties and forties who used to do this; I can't for the life of me remember their names: might have been The Two .. or X and X (same initials). I shall remember as soon as I've posted this! Haven't heard a Black Country version. If you pronounce 'hay' as 'air' it gets rather confused. I'd like to see the rest, if anyone knows it - or can suggest any more. Steve |
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18 Feb 99 - 07:53 AM (#59103) Subject: RE: A is for 'orses From: Steve Parkes ... and D for ential: differential |
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18 Feb 99 - 09:01 AM (#59108) Subject: RE: A is for 'orses From: Bert A couple of variations P for whistle P for relief Q for Miles N for lope O for the rainbow S for Williams I for Novello Bert. |
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18 Feb 99 - 12:39 PM (#59134) Subject: RE: A is for 'orses From: Jerry Friedman And see this one, which also directs you to rec.humor for still more variations. |
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18 Feb 99 - 02:44 PM (#59149) Subject: RE: A is for 'orses From: Pete M One small correction Barbara: S for you is 'as for you' for example "As fer yew mate, yew'll get a smack in the gob." I ain't from Lunnon but me trouble is. Pete M |
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18 Feb 99 - 02:53 PM (#59151) Subject: RE: A is for 'orses From: Bert So Pete M, Yer ol' china's a Limey eh! Where's she from? Bert. |
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18 Feb 99 - 07:32 PM (#59201) Subject: RE: A is for 'orses From: AllisonA(Animaterra) Ian, as far as I know the Opie book is still in print. The Opies were collecters of playground lore among many other things. They collected jumprope rhymes, street chants and taunts, and much more, on both sides of the puddle. I owe a lot to them in my appreciation of the hand-clapping games at the back of the bus on field trip days- sometimes I bring a tape recorder! Hey, Joe Offer- there's a field for you to collect in! |
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19 Feb 99 - 03:24 PM (#59264) Subject: RE: A is for 'orses From: Joe Offer Barnes and Noble says I Saw Esau (The Schoolchild's Pocket Book) is still in print, and it has great illustrations by Maurice Sendak. Another great book by Ional and Peter Opie is the Oxford Dictionary of Nursery Rhymes. Animaterra, you've got me figured out. I've been collecting kids' songs and stories and whatnot since I was a camp counselor in the 1960's. If it's obnoxious, I'm interested. -Joe Offer- |
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24 Dec 07 - 08:47 AM (#2221842) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Is for 'Orses (Cockney alphabet song) From: Mo the caller I for tower I would have guessed that could have been ivory tower, rather the Eiffel, but I prefer the I for Novello (Ivor, song writer) |
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24 Dec 07 - 08:58 AM (#2221847) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Is for 'Orses (Cockney alphabet song) From: john f weldon Z - Zephyr |
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24 Dec 07 - 10:51 AM (#2221902) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Is for 'Orses (Cockney alphabet song) From: The Walrus I knew 'C' as "C for thighlanders" (Seaforth Highlanders) |
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24 Dec 07 - 05:02 PM (#2222089) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Is for 'Orses (Cockney alphabet song) From: Fidjit I'm from Lunnan an' I quite like this Subject: Language lesson. The European Commission has just announced an agreement whereby English will be the official language of the European Union rather than German, which was the other possibility. As part of the negotiations, the British Government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a 5-year phase-in plan that would become known as "Euro-English". In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c". Sertainly, this will make the sivil servants jump with joy. The hard "c" will be dropped in favour of "k". This should klear up konfusion, and keyboards kan have one less letter. There will be growing public enthusiasm in the sekond year when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced with "f". This will make words like fotograf 20% shorter. In the 3rd year, public akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expected to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible. Governments will encourage the removal of double letters which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also al wil agre that the horibl mes of the silent "e" in the language is disgrasful and it should go away. By the 4th yer, people wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" with "z" and "w" with "v". During ze fifz yer, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords containing "ou" and after ziz fifz yer, ve vil hav a reil sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubl or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi tu understand ech oza. Ze drem of a united urop vil finali kum tru. Und efter ze fifz yeer, v evil al be speking German like zey vunted in ze forst plas. Chas |
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12 Nov 11 - 04:40 AM (#3255416) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Is for 'Orses (Cockney alphabet song) From: GUEST,V. Irene Cockroft I am Australian. My father fought in the Pacific Islands in WWII. He used to tease me, when a child, with what I considered to be a 'Forces Alphabet' i.e. a mental exercise dreamed up by soldiers in the trenches.) Obviously my supposition was wrong and this alphabet was based on the Cockney alphabet, perhaps half-remembered by 'New Australians'. The variations I remember are 'C for Ships', 'I for E' (Ivory), 'K for Dinosaurs' (cave for…), 'N for eggs' (hen for …), 'O for a nice cup of tea!' and 'R for Askey (Arthur Askey)'. More might come to mind. |
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12 Nov 11 - 11:23 AM (#3255577) Subject: Lyr Add: COCKNEY ALPHABET ("A is for 'Orses") From: Fergie Variation of the Cockney alphabet that I learned in the fifties in Dublin. A is for 'orses (hay is for horses) B for mutton (beef or mutton) C for yerself (see for yourself) D for dumb (deaf or dumb) E for over (heave her over) F for vescence (effervescence) G for police (chief of police) H for weight (age for weight) I for big one (I've a big one) J for oranges (Jaffa oranges) K for cavern (cave or cavern) L for leather (hell for leather) M for sis (emphasis) N for lope (envelope) O for the wings of a dove P for ish (peeverish) Q for the bus R for it up (offer it up) S for Williams (Esther Williams) T for two (tea for two) U for me (you for me) V for la France (viva la France) W for a bob (double you for a bob) X for breakfast (eggs for breakfast) Y for goodness sake (why for goodness sake) Z for breezes (zephyr breezes) Fergus |
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12 Nov 11 - 12:54 PM (#3255642) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Is for 'Orses (Cockney alphabet song) From: Mrrzy This is great! There is a French one like this with counting... I'd never thought of it but A *is* for 'orses... |
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12 Nov 11 - 05:50 PM (#3255836) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Is for 'Orses (Cockney alphabet song) From: GUEST,V. Irene Cockroft 2011 suggestion: A for paper (A4 paper, standard writing sheet) |
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12 Nov 11 - 06:46 PM (#3255868) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Is for 'Orses (Cockney alphabet son From: GUEST,Paul Slade On a (slight) tangent, there's also The Bus Driver's Prayer - as championed by the mighty Ian Dury: Our Father, which art in Hendon, Harrow Road be Thy name, Thy will be done, Thy Wimbledon, In Erith as it is in Hendon, Give us this day our Berkhamstead, And forgive us our Westminsters, As we forgive those who Westminster against us, Lead us not into Temple Station, And deliver us from Ealing, For Thine is the Kingston, The Purley and the Crawley, For Iver and Iver, Crouch End. |
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12 Nov 11 - 07:04 PM (#3255878) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Is for 'Orses (Cockney alphabet song) From: GUEST,SRD My wife has been reminded by this thread of a ditty her mother would recite that went along the lines of: Amen (Hay men) Straw Women Rag Dolls Made of linen Something something something Then something along the lines of: You get to the end you go back to the beginning. Anyone able to fill in the 'somethings'? |
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13 Nov 11 - 06:01 PM (#3256430) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: A Is for 'Orses (Cockney alphabet song) From: GUEST,SRD And a few more modern ones: B for you gogo D for Kate 2 and 6 |
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17 Mar 22 - 11:32 AM (#4138705) Subject: Lyr Add: COCKNEY ALPHABET ("A is for 'Orses") From: Jim Dixon From Word Play: A cornucopia of puns, anagrams and other contortions and other curiosities of the English Language by Gyles Brandreth (London: Hodder & Stoughton, 2015), page 229: COCKNEY ALPHABET A for ‘orses (hay for horses) B for mutton (beef or mutton) C for miles (see for miles) D for ential (differential) E for brick (heave a brick) F for vescence (effervescence) G for get it (Gee! Forget it!) H for bless you (aishfa – a sneeze) I for the engine (Ivor the engine) J for oranges (Jaffa oranges) K for restaurant (cafe or restaurant) L for leather (hell for leather) M for sis (emphasis) N for lope (envelope) O for the wings of a dove (song title) P for relief (self-explanatory) Q for the bus (queue for the bus) R for mo (half a moment) S for you (it’s for you) T for two (tea for two) U for me (you for me) V for la France (vive la France!) W for a bet (double you for a bet) X for breakfast (eggs for breakfast) Y for husband (wife or husband) Z for wind (zephyr wind) |
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17 Mar 22 - 03:07 PM (#4138723) Subject: Lyr Add: COCKNEY ALPHABET ("A is for 'Orses") From: GUEST,MichaelKM There are clearly a number of variants of this alphabet and some are datable from the references in them. My father's version, which he probably learned in the 1930s or '40s, is as follows: A for 'orses (hay for horses) B for mutton (beef or mutton) C for th' 'Ighlanders (Seaforth Highlanders) D for ential (differential) E for Adam (Eve or Adam) F for vest (effervesce) G for police (Chief of Police) H for beauty (age (be)fore beauty) I for Novello (Ivor Novello) J for oranges (Jaffa oranges) K for answers (Kay Francis - 1930s screen actress) L for leather (hell for leather) M for sis (emphasis) N for dig (infra dig) O for a pint (Oh for a pint!) P for a penny (pee for a penny) Q for a bus (queue for a bus) R for a mo (half a mo) S for me (as for me) T for two (tea for two) U for me (you for me) V for la France (vive la France!) W for a bob (double you for a bob) X for breakfast (eggs for breakfast) Y for 'usband (wife or husband) Z for breezes (Zephyr breezes) |