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21 messages

Lyr Req/Add: Stond Horse + The Merry Nightingale

06 Jun 06 - 09:46 AM (#1754088)
Subject: Lyr Req: the stond horse (?)
From: GUEST,leeneia

I return from an early-music workshop with a lovely round with the line "the stond horse kicks and flinges and flinges". The round was printed in Ravenscroft's Pammelia in 1609.

Does anybody know what "stond" means? It is not in my dictionary. (I tried stand, staund and stawnd as possible alternatives, but no luck.)


06 Jun 06 - 10:15 AM (#1754108)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: the stond horse (?)
From: Peace

Here.
    Link switched from Google Cache to the actual source location, according to our usual practice for posting links. If information is available at an actual Website, please don't link to the Google cache.
    -Joe Offer-


06 Jun 06 - 01:56 PM (#1754265)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: the stond horse (?)
From: Joe Offer

"Peace" linked to a Google Cache of "thefreedictionary.com," which defined "Stond" as:

    n.        1.        Stop; halt; hindrance.
            2.        A stand; a post; a station.
    v. i.        1.        To stand.

I guess that could mean a "stond horse" is a stationary one, but it doesn't quite satisfy me. Leeneia, can you post full lyrics for the song?

-Joe-


06 Jun 06 - 02:34 PM (#1754290)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: the stond horse (?)
From: Barbara

Possibly it's a tied-up horse. As in a horse tied to a post, rail or stanchion. Higher spirited horses tend to toss their heads a lot when tied when they want to be moving.
Blessings,
Barbara


06 Jun 06 - 02:49 PM (#1754305)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: the stond horse (?)
From: Peace

I think it might be verb transitivity. The song was from the early 1600s and the word is a carry-over.

"Stond wel, Moder, Ounder Rode"

The above title listed as a title of and Old/Middle English work indicates that it is a form of the verb 'to stand'.


06 Jun 06 - 02:57 PM (#1754313)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: the stond horse (?)
From: Peace

Just a guess "Joe".


06 Jun 06 - 04:13 PM (#1754387)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: the stond horse (?)
From: Uncle_DaveO

Some pedantic etymological speculation here:

In the IndoEuropean languages, almost all words and roots starting with "st(vowel)" are from the Sanskrit word (phonetic) "sthay", signifying to stand or be located, more or less.

Thus "stand" (surprise!), "station", and "stop", cited above. Also the second syllable of "conSTItution", and (now I'm getting to it, I think) "stable.

I don't know offhand, and am too lazy to go look it up, but maybe "stallion" is also from "sthay".   If so, we could come up with this fun sentence: "The stallion stood stock-still stationary in a stall, staring stonily at the stationwagon stopped outside the stable in the station." I'm pretty sure that's a "stond horse".


06 Jun 06 - 05:10 PM (#1754432)
Subject: ADD: The Merry Nightingale
From: GUEST,leeneia

Thanks, everyone, esp. Peace. Here are the lyrics:

The Merry Nightingale


The nightingale, the merry nightingale,
she sweetly sits and sings and sings.
The pretty nimble doe doth trip it to and fro.
The stond horse kicks and flings and flings.
The cuckoo he doth fly from tree to tree,
and merrily through the wood,
"cuckoo! cuckoo!" rings.



Click to play


I believe that the horse is tethered, and it being spring, the horse is feeling frisky and kicks, flinging its legs out.

Uncle DaveO, you were right. Stallion comes from the OF estalion and the OGH stal, a stable. Who'd a thunk it?


06 Jun 06 - 10:22 PM (#1754639)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: the stond horse (?)
From: Joe Offer

Very pretty, Leeneia. If you'd like to send me a MIDI, I'd love to post it.
-Joe


07 Jun 06 - 08:39 AM (#1754883)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: the stond horse (?)
From: Mr Fox

'Stone horse' is an old phrase for a stallion, meaning, presumably, a horse with 'stones' i.e. testicles.


07 Jun 06 - 08:51 AM (#1754891)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: the stond horse (?)
From: MartinRyan

Yes - I was about to ask if the o was short or long!

Regards


07 Jun 06 - 08:59 AM (#1754895)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: the stond horse (?)
From: GUEST,leeneia

We sang it as if it were "stahnd". That pronunciation just sounds right.

Spellcheck wanted to change stond to stoned, but I didn't let it. College students have enough problems without that.

(I learned it from a man who usually teaches at a college.)

Joe, I will send you the MIDI.

Mr. Fox, I don't know whether you are teasing or not. Stones means testicles?


07 Jun 06 - 09:22 AM (#1754913)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: the stond horse (?)
From: Snuffy

"'E's just a boy. 'Is stones ain't dropped yet"


07 Jun 06 - 09:35 AM (#1754920)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: the stond horse (?)
From: MartinRyan

As in The Derby Ram :

"Took all the women of Derby to roll away his stones..."

Regards


07 Jun 06 - 09:37 AM (#1754921)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: the stond horse (?)
From: MartinRyan

In fact, reading the lyrics, I reckon stoned it is, alright.

Regards


07 Jun 06 - 10:14 AM (#1754951)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: the stond horse (?)
From: GUEST,leeneia

No, no, that would have meant that people had been throwing rocks at the poor thing.


07 Jun 06 - 10:16 AM (#1754953)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: the stond horse (?)
From: Peace

Or that the horse had been smoking stuff . . . .


07 Jun 06 - 10:50 AM (#1754991)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: the stond horse (?)
From: MartinRyan

I have a vague recollection of a similar usage somewhere in Shakespeare...

Regards

p.s. leeneia: wonder what he was flinging (back)?!


07 Jun 06 - 01:01 PM (#1755070)
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: the stond horse (?)
From: Mr Fox

"I have a vague recollection of a similar usage somewhere in Shakespeare..."

Martin, it's a (rather rude) pun in 'A Midsummer Night's Dream':-

Flute: O wall, full often hast thou heard my moans

For parting my fair Pyramus and me.

My cherry lips have often kissed thy stones,.............etc


07 Jun 06 - 04:49 PM (#1755196)
Subject: RE: Req/ADD: the stond horse - The Merry Nighting
From: Joe Offer

Thanks to Leeneia, we have a tune:

Click to play


07 Jun 06 - 05:20 PM (#1755225)
Subject: RE: Req/ADD: the stond horse - The Merry Nighting
From: GUEST,leeneia

Below please find the remarks I have about the MIDI
--------------------

This round was published in Ravenscroft's "Pammelia" in 1609. The book was a best-seller in its day, and people are still singing from it.

If you have a music program, you can download my MIDI file and edit it to suit yourself. Power!

A few comments about it: first you will hear the complete tune so you can learn it. When you hear it, you might think, "That's ugly." However, when you hear the parts together, it becomes beautiful and interesting. Many rounds from this era are like that.

The tune has a big range. That's because it was intended for men to sing, and men (given practice)can switch their voices from high to low. It's another way they have of showing off.

I put it in the key of C for brightness, but at my house we will do it in A. We are all altos at my house.

SPECIAL OFFER! If anybody actually downloads the tune and says "Thanks, I intend to sing/play this beautiful piece," I will post another of the same type.