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15 Jun 06 - 08:11 AM (#1760532) Subject: Marines' 'Hadji Girl' Dust-Up From: GUEST,Bob Coltman In case you haven't yet heard of this, the Marines are in a tizzy over a singing soldier and his song. Wish I could send you to the video, but it has been removed from YouTube. "due to terms of use violation." So it will take us a little longer to evaluate the song's merits and/or demerits. (Doesn't sound, offhand, like a very pleasing treatment, but who knows.) The story appears below. Bob http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/06/14/army_investigates_singing_squaddy/ US Marines investigate singing squaddy Does war make you less sensitive, and tone deaf? By John Oates Published Wednesday 14th June 2006 11:41 GMT The US army is investigating whether a video which purports to show a serving Marine singing and playing the guitar on YouTube is genuine. The clip appears to show a chubby US soldier playing acoustic guitar and singing into a microphone in front of an audience. The man's voice might upset Simon Cowell, but it is hardly the most offensive video the Marines have made in Iraq. Last year, US police investigated website www.that'sf**kedup.com where serving soldiers were trading stills and videos of dead and injured Iraqis and Afghans - along with porn clips. Called "Hadji Girl" the lyrics are more or less what you'd expect. It's not the most culturally-aware composition you've ever heard but presumably the squaddy wasn't recruited for his singing ability. A spokesman for the Marines told AP the video was: "inappropriate and contrary to the high standards expected of all Marines." He did not confirm whether the man was a serving soldier but said it was being investigated. The Marines are being investigated for some real crimes in Iraq, like the alleged massacre in Haditha, rather than just crimes against musical good taste. |
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15 Jun 06 - 08:40 AM (#1760549) Subject: RE: 'Hadji Girl' Controversy From: artbrooks The video is genuine. The Marine in it says that it was originally intended to be a joke among friends and was put on the internet without his knowledge or permission. He says that "I will never perform this song again, and I will remove all video and text in relation to this that I have control of." Story here BTW, American Marines and American soldiers (members of the Army) prefer not to be confused with each other. Calling a Marine a soldier is incorrect. |
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15 Jun 06 - 08:44 AM (#1760552) Subject: RE: 'Hadji Girl' Controversy From: Piers Qoutes from the song here. |
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15 Jun 06 - 09:31 AM (#1760586) Subject: RE: 'Hadji Girl' Controversy From: GUEST,Bob Coltman Phew, I just took a look at the link you offered, Piers. Not nice. I suppose it has the same sort of usefulness the Ku Klux Klan songs do, letting you know what kind of mentality you're dealing with. Reminds me of some of the less likable songs of the Philippine Campaign. I'd say this is more closely allied to the mood of Abu Ghraib-style atrocity than it is to the sort of "soldier songs" people like Dolph enjoy collecting after the war ends. Makes me wonder how many such vicious gore-loving hate songs in previous wars may have been quietly dropped after use and never circulated, simply because they were indefensible. Folk music on the front lines...in as much turmoil as the kids we're teaching to kill. Thought-provoking...or maybe just provoking. Bob |
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15 Jun 06 - 09:52 AM (#1760609) Subject: RE: 'Hadji Girl' Controversy From: Sorcha IMO, that's the Marines for you. |
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15 Jun 06 - 11:13 AM (#1760676) Subject: RE: 'Hadji Girl' Controversy From: GUEST,jOhn Simon Cowell is an arseole, i'd like to punch his face. |
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15 Jun 06 - 11:56 AM (#1760716) Subject: RE: 'Hadji Girl' Controversy From: CarolC Here's the video... http://www.cair.com/video/marine-hadji-girl.wmv |
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15 Jun 06 - 05:20 PM (#1760955) Subject: RE: 'Hadji Girl' Controversy From: NH Dave While this sort of song isn't the image we would like to portray around the world, Kipling noted in Tommy that "single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints" speaking about serving military people in Inia, another nearby land. Dave |
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15 Jun 06 - 06:13 PM (#1760984) Subject: RE: 'Hadji Girl' Controversy From: Wolfgang A three months old story coming up now. Wolfgang |
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16 Jun 06 - 08:41 AM (#1761299) Subject: RE: 'Hadji Girl' Controversy From: GUEST,maryrrf I watched the video and listened to the song. Tasteless and disturbing, to say the least. |
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16 Jun 06 - 07:41 PM (#1761849) Subject: RE: 'Hadji Girl' Controversy From: michaelr Why do they hate us so much??? |
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16 Jun 06 - 07:51 PM (#1761853) Subject: RE: 'Hadji Girl' Controversy From: McGrath of Harlow Nazis rule OK? |
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16 Jun 06 - 07:58 PM (#1761857) Subject: RE: 'Hadji Girl' Controversy From: michaelr What did you call me? |
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21 Jun 06 - 01:56 AM (#1765282) Subject: RE: 'Hadji Girl' Controversy From: GUEST,Rob Wow, apparently everyone posting on this site is not only ignorant but apparently can't understand why a Marine would write a song, that to some might be politically incorrect, but to his fellow Marines serving with him are getting a much needed stress reliever. Maybe, just maybe, to those in posts who have referenced the "Haditha Massacre" should try going on a convoy, having a vehicle blown up and watch one of your brothers get blown, literally, in half. Then take fire from a building, then return fire and take that building. And these people who were killed while sleeping in their beds? Hmmmmm.....ever tried to sleep through gunfire and explosions. Yeah, I'm sure they were sleeping. So to all of you who don't realize that not long ago two Marines were captured and mutilated by Iraqi terrorists. You need to start dealing with the fact that yes, it is war, yes people die, and guess what, mistakes are going to be made. Yes I said it, mistakes are made, innocent people die in war, especially when gun, and bomb, toting kids are a threat, when the enemy fires at you from a mosque, when women are put in the line of fire by their own people. You know, on second thought, you are all correct, screw it, let your fellow Americans die. That's the way it should be. I apologize for anything contrary to that I have said. Idiots. |
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21 Jun 06 - 01:57 AM (#1765284) Subject: RE: 'Hadji Girl' Controversy From: GUEST I do retract part of my previous, it was two soldiers, not Marines, who were captured and mutiliated. |
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21 Jun 06 - 02:17 AM (#1765288) Subject: RE: 'Hadji Girl' Controversy From: CarolC Guest,Rob; When people show the kind of disregard for humanity that is shown by the Marine in that video as well as his audience, especially when this disregard is shown toward the very people they claim to be over there helping, they help to create the kind of environment in which an insurgency becomes an inevitability. And to that extent, they are responsible for the deaths of many of their fellow servicemen and women. If you value the lives of our men and women in uniform, you won't be making excuses for that sort of behavior or that sort of attitude. And to the extent that an insurgency jeopardizes the mission, any behaviors and/or attitudes that help to incite a backlash against our forces also jeopardize the mission. If you value the mission, you won't be making excuses for that sort of behavior or that sort of attitude. |
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21 Jun 06 - 02:17 AM (#1765289) Subject: RE: 'Hadji Girl' Controversy From: Ebbie Your rhetoric, Guest, would be more morally high-sounding if you recognized that most Iraqis are civilians living in a country that was invaded by someone from the outside. If the tables were turned- and you had foreign military in your country bent on subjugating you, what do you think your reaction would be? Never mind that Saddam was an absolute terror in his country- most Iraqis didn't meet him or know him personally. Things have changed. Not necessarily for the better. |
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21 Jun 06 - 02:36 AM (#1765297) Subject: RE: 'Hadji Girl' Controversy From: CarolC I have no doubt that Guest,Rob would never allow a foriegn government to do to his country what the US has done to Iraq. I believe that Guest,Rob would lay down his life trying prevent such a thing from happening. |
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21 Jun 06 - 02:38 AM (#1765298) Subject: RE: 'Hadji Girl' Controversy From: Barry Finn I've seen no reports that have stated that women & children have been carrying out face to face attacks on our troops. Silly me, & I thought you were using that as an excuse for shooting innocent cripples, sickly old men, sleeping children & unarmed men, who weren't firing from houses & weren't responsible for roadside bombings. Idiot that I am, I didn't realize that innocent non combant terrorized village folk need to atone for soldiers getting blown in half & that they need to pay because they don't want us there saving them to death. Sleep through gunfire? It's easy once you get used to hearing it. As a kid, I know that I did? It's like going to sleep next to a train station, idiot! Barry |
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21 Jun 06 - 10:30 AM (#1765524) Subject: RE: 'Hadji Girl' Controversy From: Wolfgang I've seen no reports that have stated that women & children have been carrying out face to face attacks on our troops. One such case Wolfgang |
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21 Jun 06 - 12:32 PM (#1765632) Subject: RE: 'Hadji Girl' Controversy From: GUEST,TIA She's Belgian, not Iraqi. Not sure if that matters in this particular discussion. |
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21 Jun 06 - 12:49 PM (#1765647) Subject: RE: 'Hadji Girl' Controversy From: Little Hawk It's not surprising that soldiers will come up with stuff like that. They always do. Whether it gets publicized is another matter...it usually doesn't. Young soldiers everywhere always assume that the side they are on is the "right" side and the people they're fighting are on the wrong side. That gives them the zeal to fight, and it makes them bitterly resent the unknown enemies who kill their mates, and they compose crap like that song when they get upset about it. Big deal. They suffer from tunnel vision, because the young guys on the other side always feel exactly the same way about them. But there's one thing that should not be forgotten: This was an unprovoked, illegal, unjustified, pre-emptive invasion of a small country quite incapable of defending itself by a superpower which used false allegations of Weapons of Mass Destruction as an excuse to commit aggression. And there is no fucking excuse for that. The Marines and other young American soldiers in Iraq simply aren't aware of it...but they are the guys in the wrong in this war. Their country committed the aggression. They are in the same basic position as young Germans were in when they invaded Belgium, Holland, Denmark, Norway, France, etc....in WWII. They are the aggressors. They are the hated invaders. They are the foreign occupiers. They are the war criminals....and they just don't get it. |
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21 Jun 06 - 01:14 PM (#1765670) Subject: RE: 'Hadji Girl' Controversy From: Greg B One of the hidden costs of war is that young men (and now women) become desensitized to the horror of war, and often take some time to recover. Some don't. Many, if not most, of the outlaws and 'gunfighters' of the American West were actually Civil War veterans. We're in a situation in the US where the administration is doing its best to keep Americans from seeing the cost of the little adventure in Iraq. So I suspect that the official motivation for coming down on the singing Corporal is not in any way altruistic. For all those who are offended by his words, perhaps they should consider that he might be speaking a certain truth. If he's making light of it now, perhaps its his effort to minimize the trouble he's in for doing so. Whether he's concious of the truth that he's telling is a question that will have to wait some time to be answered, I suspect. (Unless you're in the filthiest latrine in Baghdad, in which case just ask the guy on his hands and knees with a toothbrush.) |
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21 Jun 06 - 02:08 PM (#1765718) Subject: RE: 'Hadji Girl' Controversy From: Little Hawk GregB - Good post. You're quite right...they are not coming down on him for altruistic reasons. It's a matter of pragamatism and public relations, nothing more. The sort of things he's saying in his song must get said by plenty of American soliders and Marines...and I'm sure they say far worse than that...but it's not supposed to reach the attention of the civilian public. |
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21 Jun 06 - 05:02 PM (#1765896) Subject: Lyr Add: HADJI GIRL From: GUEST,MTed Here are the lyrics--the song isn't really about what everyone seems to think it is about-- The protagonist is led into a trap, ambushed, and shields himself with little sister who is then killed by her own father and brother, as they shoot at him--then he shoots back. Understandable, under the circumstances-- The guy is a good singer, and his story is believable--Maybe not the best song on the planet, but good enough to get attention--in other circumstances, he'd be welcomed at Mudcat(who knows? he could be a member!)--his song tells an ugly and unvarished truth, about the war, and about the soldiers who fight it-- In it's own way, it is an anti-war song--the symbolism is all there-the Burger King, the innocent, naively drawn into a situation he has no real undertanding of, and the horrible results-- The ending alone lacks poetry--it is a simple statement of the determination to survive--but the singer and his audience can be excused for their concerns, because survival comes first-- Hadji Girl I was out in the sands of Iraq And we were under attack And I, well, I didn't know where to go. And the first thing that I could see was Everybody's favorite Burger King So I threw open the door and I hit the floor. Then suddenly to my surprise I looked up and I saw her eyes And I knew it was love at first sight. And she said… Durka Durka Mohammed Jihad Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah Hadji girl, I can't understand what you're saying. And she said… Durka Durka Mohammed Jihad Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah Hadji girl, I love you anyway. Then she said that she wanted me to see. She wanted me to go meet her family But I, well, I couldn't figure out how to say no. Cause I don't speak Arabic. So, she took me down an old dirt trail. And she pulled up to a side shanty And she threw open the door and I hit the floor. Cause her brother and her father shouted… Durka Durka Mohammed Jihad Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah They pulled out their AKs so I could see And they said… Durka Durka Mohammed Jihad Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah (with humorous emphasis:) So I grabbed her little sister, and pulled her in front of me. As the bullets began to fly The blood sprayed from between her eyes And then I laughed maniacally Then I hid behind the TV And I locked and loaded my M-16 And I blew those little f*ckers to eternity. And I said… Durka Durka Mohammed Jihad Sherpa Sherpa Bak Allah They should have known they were f*ckin' with a Marine. The chorus apparently comes from "Team America" |
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21 Jun 06 - 07:52 PM (#1766008) Subject: RE: 'Hadji Girl' Controversy From: CarolC Can't agree, M Ted. Those pseudo "Arabic" gobbledy-gook chorus words are really quite racist. And the fact that he "laughed maniacally" at the sight of blood spurting from between the eyes of a female child suggests a certain amount of blood lust. And a total lack of regard for the life of a hapless child. If that child had been a white, middle class student at his local elementary or middle school, he would probably have put himself between that child and the bullet to save her life. And the term "Hadji Girl" is profoundly contemptuous of the religion of the people those Marines are supposed to be there to help. The Hadj is a very important milestone in the life of a Muslim, and to use it as a racist perjorative shows nothing but contempt for the people who practice that religion, the majority of whom, I would point out, did not fire any bullets at that Marine. If the Marines and other service people have been treating the civilians of Iraq with the degree of contempt that is shown in that song (and they have been, ever since the early days of the invasion), it really is no wonder that US military personnel are getting killed in large numbers. Hell, even our own military people will frag their own officers if they're treated badly enough. The song has about as much redeeming value as a White Supremacist rally song. And every bit as much evil. |
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21 Jun 06 - 07:56 PM (#1766010) Subject: RE: 'Hadji Girl' Controversy From: CarolC Also, I believe the use of children as human shields is a war crime. |
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21 Jun 06 - 09:05 PM (#1766072) Subject: RE: 'Hadji Girl' Controversy From: M.Ted It is not a war crime to write a song, to sing a song, or to laugh at a song--and not a war crime to quote a satirical puppet movie in the refrain of your song(which is why the "Durka, Durka..." line gets a laugh--they know it's a line from a movie)-- Listen and learn is my motto, and I learned a lot from the song--Glad that I had a chance to hear it--and am not surprised or offended by it--it is a song, intended to entertain a bunch of people in a very desperate situation--and the song is a satire--satirists are entitled to a lot of latitude under the law--I read a legal decision on it-- |
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21 Jun 06 - 09:18 PM (#1766084) Subject: RE: 'Hadji Girl' Controversy From: Little Hawk Yeah, given the general situation those soldiers are in, there's nothing all that surprising or shocking to me that one of them would come up with such a song...and that the others would laugh or applaud it. It's typical of the macho camaraderie of soldiers in the occupation of a foreign land. What they don't get though, in my opinion, is...they are the invaders, upon false pretences, and they aren't doing Iraqis any favour. They are the enemy. Just like in Vietnam. |
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21 Jun 06 - 10:49 PM (#1766162) Subject: RE: 'Hadji Girl' Controversy From: CarolC The Marine who wrote that song made a joke about the gruesome death of a child. They were laughing at the gruesome death of a child. What this shows is that he and his buddies are not qualified to be doing the job they are over there to do. His is not the kind of attitude that is going to win anything over there. All it's going to accomplish will be to get a whole lot more of our servicemen and women killed, as well as a whole lot more (many thousands of times more) innocent civilians, including women and children killed before our forces finally come home in utter defeat. If the job is too big for those Marines... if they are so incapable of doing the job and doing it right, if they are going to make things worse there instead of better by having this kind of racist and profoundly inhumane attitude toward the people they have accepted a mission to help, they have no business being there. They should come back home and leave the job to the grown-ups. |
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22 Jun 06 - 12:20 AM (#1766190) Subject: RE: 'Hadji Girl' Controversy From: M.Ted The song is just a song--a bit of dark, dark humor in a perilous situation. Regardless of what the PR says, they are soldiers, not social workers--soldiers do what soldiers have always done, and not much of it has ever been suitable for family entertainment. |
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22 Jun 06 - 12:32 AM (#1766194) Subject: RE: 'Hadji Girl' Controversy From: GUEST If only the Russians would start helping the Iraqi resistance like we did years ago in Afghanistan. Why are we still in Iraq? Americans like to see their sons and daughters killed in action. Anyone in favor of this war is basically a modern day Nazi. |