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02 Aug 06 - 04:27 PM (#1800016) Subject: trad pop songs From: diggle2 I'm looking at which traditional songs have been the most popular in the current, 45-year revival in the UK. Not necessarily the most recorded or done by professional performers, but by the rank and file in the clubs and festivals. Has anybody got any data, or feel they could write down a top 20 with confidence? |
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02 Aug 06 - 04:43 PM (#1800026) Subject: RE: trad pop songs From: Herga Kitty I thought this was going to be a thread about which pop songs have passed into the tradition... and it's probably going to provoke the usual arguments about "what is a traditional song"... Probably quite a few Copper family songs, and songs popularised by the Watersons and Young Tradition, like "Thousands or more", "Byker Hill". Other songs have fallen in and out of fashion over the last 45 years, and lots of really popular ones have seeped into the tradition after being written by Keith Marsden, Dave Webber, John Conolly, John Tams! Kitty |
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02 Aug 06 - 05:09 PM (#1800040) Subject: RE: trad pop songs From: Susan of DT I thought it was going to be what hit parade songs were traditional - like Tom Dooley, Scarboro Fair, Frankie & Johnnie. Popular in 60s in US |
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02 Aug 06 - 05:32 PM (#1800056) Subject: RE: trad pop songs From: GUEST,Barry, at sis-in-laws Trad to pop Tom Dula Sloop John B Lavender Blue Midnight Special Pop to trad Fiddler's Green Jack-in-the-Green Green Fields of France Shoals of Herrgreening Witch of the Westmorelands Barrett's Privateers Bring us a Barrel Pop Trad 15 Miles on the Erie Cannal Pleasant & Delightful Banks of the Pounchatrain Ships Carpenter Barabra Allen Pretty Polly Barry |
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02 Aug 06 - 07:57 PM (#1800148) Subject: RE: trad pop songs From: Scoville House of the Rising Sun (trad to pop) 500 Miles (pop to trad) Aragon Mill (pop to trad) |
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03 Aug 06 - 02:22 AM (#1800289) Subject: RE: trad pop songs From: diggle2 Thanks to those who've responded so far. The thread title is a bit ambiguous, I know, but I'm new to this. It's specificcally about the traditional songs collected by sharp et al, i.e. which ones have been the most popular in the folk clubs? I think Kitty's right to point out the influence of groups like the Coppers Anyway, I look forward to more diggle2 |
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03 Aug 06 - 04:06 AM (#1800324) Subject: RE: trad pop songs From: Kevin Sheils The problem you'll have now diggle2 is that the thread has started in an ambiguous manner and, as frequently happens, as it gets longer most people will only read the first couple of postings and then add to it in that vein so your one above will probably get missed. No easy way round that I'm afraid. Anyway to add some thoughts I'd imagine that many of the most popular "traditional" songs sung in the clubs are probably not from the "collectors" (at least not performed in the collected manner) but from the revivalists who reworked them from oold broadsides and written collections and which have probably moved on from the "traditional" original. Could be wrong though, it's been known. |
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03 Aug 06 - 04:52 AM (#1800341) Subject: RE: trad pop songs From: Scrump From: GUEST,Barry, at sis-in-laws: "Pop to trad Green Fields of France" Interesting point - I wonder if a song that refers to events in a specific period of modern history (in this case WW1, 1916) can be considered traditional? I suppose if the author is unknown then yes. But if - as in this case - the author is known (and even still alive, as here) I'm not so sure (?). I'm not disputing Barry's suggestion above, it just made me wonder. Any thoughts, anyone? |
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03 Aug 06 - 11:26 AM (#1800588) Subject: RE: trad pop songs From: Scoville Who's Sharp? |
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03 Aug 06 - 12:05 PM (#1800627) Subject: RE: trad pop songs From: GUEST,Tattie bogle at work Cecil Sharp that would be, famous collector of Folk Songs esp English: if you've not heard of him do a Google search and you'll find out loads! |
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03 Aug 06 - 01:14 PM (#1800673) Subject: RE: trad pop songs From: Scoville Oh, duh. Sorry, I'm on my third straight week reading the library catalog 9 hours a day--I can hear my brain sloshing around in my skull. I can't get the Project Guttenberg page to open but of the songs listed here (scroll down): Houston, Texas, vicinity. I play mostly with Appalachian dulcimers so I don't know many jigs (6/8 is a pain), but I went to college in Iowa and learned a bunch of Midwestern fiddle stuff, too. Sort of a mixed background. Everybody knows "On Top of Old Smoky". My dad does a version of "Frankie & Johnny" but I have no idea where he got it--his mother's favorite song was "Mairzy Doats", so I doubt he learned it from her. Everyone knows of "Barbara Allan" but I know very few who actually sing or play it. I've never heard the same version by any two singers and we can never agree on how it should be sung. We do "Cumberland Gap" all the time, with an added "B" part. Everyone knows of "Cherry Tree Carol" and "Matty Groves" but, again, I don't usually hear them sung or played. There are several tunes called "Natchez-Under-the-Hill", and they are very different. The one I know came from Illinois and does not resemble "Turkey in the Straw" (which was published in the 1830's as "Old Zip Coon"). I learned "Natchez" from friends but the only recording I have is in the key of A, by the Allen Street String Band [defunct]. "Natchez" refers to the old dock area in Natchez, Mississippi, but you probably know that. I assume "Napoleon's Retreat" could be "Bonaparte's Retreat", which a lot of my dulcimer friends play (or, less likely, "Bonapart Crossing the Alps", which we also play). Everyone knows "Shortening Bread", "Cripple Creek", "Froggie Went A-Courting", and "Sally Gooden". If I never play "Shortening" again, I'll die happy. Most know "Cuckoo". We can never agree on a version of "Little Maggie". Most know "Fire on the Mountain" but don't play it because it's pointless on the dulcimer. I know a tune called "Pretty Little Girl" but I don't know if it's the same one. I learned it from friends who got it from former members of the Freight Hoppers, who are from the right part of the country. The title is sort of nondescript, though. I know a banjo tune called "Lost Indian" but got in from someone from Alabama, and I don't know anyone else in my area that plays it. (Also, the fiddle tune "Cherokee Shuffle" is rarely, but sometimes, called "Lost Indian", but it's a much more recent tune.) |
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04 Aug 06 - 07:17 AM (#1801295) Subject: RE: trad pop songs From: Marje Diggle2, I think you'll have to untangle a few different strands here: First, about half of the responses will be from the UK and half from the US. This doesn't mean that the US responses won't be interesting, but they won't answer what you asked. The repertoire over there is very different - also, they sometimes take "song" to include "tune", which compounds the confusion. I think that even within the UK you'll find there are big regional variations. Scotland has a different repertoire from south of the border, and I daresay its own regional variations. In England, the North-East in particular has its own distinctive songs, and other areas too will have their own favourites (East Anglia, Sussex, the West Country, etc). Then, as you'll see, there are people who already have misinterpreted (or not read) what you wrote and are engaging in fascinating, if irrelevant, discussion on the crossovers between pop and folk ... Anway, for what it's worth, here are a few songs that I think are in the category you mention, and that are widely sung and recognised at festivals etc in England: Pleasant and Delightful Come Write me Down Adieu Sweet Lovely Nancy Country Life (I like to rise..) Raggle Taggle Gypsies (and its variants) Various shanties: Leave Her Johnny, South Australia, etc Banks of the Sweet Primroses Seeds of Love The Water is Wide John Barleycorn Byker Hill Cadgwith Anthem Rose of Allendale Is that the sort of list you're looking for? I'd hesitate to rank them in any order or even to say these were any more popular and well established than another dozen or so songs that someone else might contribute. But maybe it's a start. Marje |
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04 Aug 06 - 11:39 AM (#1801481) Subject: RE: trad pop songs From: Ruth Archer See, I thought the thread was going to be about trad versions of pop songs. So I was going to mention Niclkel Creek's version of Brtiney Spears's Toxic at Cambridge FF. Honestly, it was a joy. As you were. |
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04 Aug 06 - 12:05 PM (#1801497) Subject: RE: trad pop songs From: diggle2 Marje is on to it. Thanks Marje |
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04 Aug 06 - 01:20 PM (#1801563) Subject: RE: trad pop songs From: GUEST,Auldtimer Antony Newley had a "hit" sometine in the early sixties with Strawberry Fair. Ri-foll Ri-foll fal-de-ridle-ie-doo. Guy Mitchell recorded, Lofty Clippership, She had a dark and a roving eye, and her hair hung down in ringlets, in the late fifties/early sixties. Stealeye Span's big "hit", All Around My Hat in the seventies. |
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04 Aug 06 - 05:11 PM (#1801728) Subject: RE: trad pop songs From: skipy Scoville:- Who's Sharp? Skipy Who's Blunt? Skipy |
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04 Aug 06 - 05:27 PM (#1801751) Subject: RE: trad pop songs From: Scoville Har de har har. I had that coming, didn't I? ;-) So I was going to mention Niclkel Creek's version of Brtiney Spears's Toxic at Cambridge FF. Okay, that's enough to send me into convulsions right there. Seriously, I think it might be cause for UN intervention. |