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03 Aug 06 - 04:45 PM (#1800828) Subject: BS: Not all evangelicals are alike From: Jim Dixon From the New York Times: DISOWNING CONSERVATIVE POLITICS, EVANGELICAL PASTOR RATTLES FLOCK MAPLEWOOD, Minn. — Like most pastors who lead thriving evangelical megachurches, the Rev. Gregory A. Boyd was asked frequently to give his blessing — and the church's — to conservative political candidates and causes. The requests came from church members and visitors alike: Would he please announce a rally against gay marriage during services? Would he introduce a politician from the pulpit? Could members set up a table in the lobby promoting their anti-abortion work? Would the church distribute "voters' guides" that all but endorsed Republican candidates? And with the country at war, please couldn't the church hang an American flag in the sanctuary? After refusing each time, Mr. Boyd finally became fed up, he said. Before the last presidential election, he preached six sermons called "The Cross and the Sword" in which he said the church should steer clear of politics, give up moralizing on sexual issues, stop claiming the United States as a "Christian nation" and stop glorifying American military campaigns.... By the time the dust had settled, Woodland Hills, which Mr. Boyd founded in 1992, had lost about 1,000 of its 5,000 members.... [Please click the link above to see the rest of the 2-page article. [Maplewood is a suburb of St. Paul.] |
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03 Aug 06 - 04:55 PM (#1800836) Subject: RE: BS: Not all evangelicals are alike From: JohnInKansas NY Times? I believe this is the correct URL, however "registration" is required to see the article. John |
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03 Aug 06 - 05:07 PM (#1800847) Subject: RE: BS: Not all evangelicals are alike From: Jim Dixon Sorry about the bad link. The article has been copied to many web sites. If you don't want to register for the NYTimes, try this: Google search for "Like most pastors who lead thriving evangelical megachurches" |
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03 Aug 06 - 05:19 PM (#1800861) Subject: RE: BS: Not all evangelicals are alike From: Scoville Or just register. They don't ask for CC information and they don't spam you (I'm registered because I look stuff up for work--it won't kill you). And it's a very interesting article. |
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03 Aug 06 - 05:27 PM (#1800870) Subject: RE: BS: Not all evangelicals are alike From: JohnInKansas If one has a faster connection than mine, the NY Times site might still be worth a look. I did register a few weeks ago, and it's free. Their privacy policy looked ok to me. Links with the article purport to offer audio clips from several of this pastor's sermons. It's unclear whether the clips are from the "Six Sermons" that most upset the non-Christian segment (my opinion) who quit the congregation. "Mary Van Sickle, the family pastor at Woodland Hills, said she lost 20 volunteers who had been the backbone of the church's Sunday school. "They said, 'You're not doing what the church is supposed to be doing, which is supporting the Republican way,' " she said. "It was some of my best volunteers."" John |
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03 Aug 06 - 05:30 PM (#1800874) Subject: RE: BS: Not all evangelicals are alike From: Scoville "Mary Van Sickle, the family pastor at Woodland Hills, said she lost 20 volunteers who had been the backbone of the church's Sunday school. "They said, 'You're not doing what the church is supposed to be doing, which is supporting the Republican way,' " she said. "It was some of my best volunteers."" Yeah, that one blew me away, too. (Of course, our church would probably say the same thing about the Democratic Party . . . ) |
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03 Aug 06 - 05:38 PM (#1800881) Subject: RE: BS: Not all evangelicals are alike From: GUEST,sorefingers May G_d help us from such lunatics as righwing nazichristians. |
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03 Aug 06 - 07:03 PM (#1800936) Subject: RE: BS: Not all evangelicals are alike From: Bill D The line I liked was "May God protect us from his most zealous followers." I'm glad ONE pastor sees why he should keep religion separate from politics, but it doesn't reassure me much. |
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03 Aug 06 - 07:10 PM (#1800941) Subject: RE: BS: Not all evangelicals are alike From: Georgiansilver I can vouch for the fact that God protects his most zealous followers and wherever Christianity is talked about there are always sceptics. You can no more taste the Jesus I know than you can taste the apple I am eating. Well, can you taste the apple I am eating?. Wherever there are Christians there is criticism....we expect it. Eventually the Bible tells us we will be persecuted...I believe that too. Best wishes, Mike. |
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03 Aug 06 - 07:19 PM (#1800951) Subject: RE: BS: Not all evangelicals are alike From: bobad Hey Mike, check this out, it's not too late. |
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03 Aug 06 - 07:30 PM (#1800957) Subject: RE: BS: Not all evangelicals are alike From: Bill D Mike...did you purposely mis-read what I typed? Does the Bible tell you a lot of that persecution could be avoided by simply practicing your religion and not smugly telling those who do not wish to practice it how righteous you are? You have mostly avoided this for some time now...best try again. |
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03 Aug 06 - 08:11 PM (#1800995) Subject: RE: BS: Not all evangelicals are alike From: Jim Dixon Bill D: It's much more than one pastor. Read the article. It says there have been at least six recent books expressing more or less the same point of view, for instance: Randall Balmer, "Thy Kingdom Come: How the Religious Right Distorts the Faith and Threatens America — an Evangelical's Lament." Like a lot of newspaper articles, this one starts by describing one instance and then goes on to discuss a larger trend. And maybe it's more significant that the church did not lose 4,000 of its 5,000 members. |
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03 Aug 06 - 09:20 PM (#1801056) Subject: RE: BS: Not all evangelicals are alike From: Charley Noble I'm pleased that this thread has the title it does. Evangelicals have a choice. They can ally themselves with Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson and support the right wing of the Republican party, or they can try to be good Christians, get closer to God, and respect their neighbors who may have a different religious or non-religious belief. Those of us who are concerned about the rise of Christain Nationalists should do our best to vote their allies out of office. Charley Noble |
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03 Aug 06 - 09:34 PM (#1801067) Subject: RE: BS: Not all evangelicals are alike From: robomatic I've been living among various evangelicals for some time, now, and I conclude that they are just folks, after all. All sizes, all shapes, and the traditional American independent cussedness with which I myself am graced from time to time. Of course they're not all alike. And most of 'em are fine people with whom I am HONORED to disagree. Just as with a lot of you folks. If only I could get them to accept Darwin. . . |
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03 Aug 06 - 09:40 PM (#1801071) Subject: RE: BS: Not all evangelicals are alike From: Peace "RE: BS: Not all evangelicals are alike" I don't know about that . . . . |
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03 Aug 06 - 09:41 PM (#1801072) Subject: RE: BS: Not all evangelicals are alike From: bobad "If only I could get them to accept Darwin. . " Give them time, they'll evolve. |
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03 Aug 06 - 10:01 PM (#1801080) Subject: RE: BS: Not all evangelicals are alike From: Little Hawk Darwin was quite a religious man, I hear. |
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03 Aug 06 - 10:01 PM (#1801081) Subject: RE: BS: Not all evangelicals are alike From: Don Firth Accept Darwin? A lot of them do. Nothing inconsistent between Christian belief and evolution. They say that Darwin was merely describing how God did it. Lots of liberal and progressive ministers and congregations have had a nose full of evangelicals and fundamentalists claiming to speak for all Christians and trying to ram their particular political agenda down the country's collective throats. They're speaking out at their own churches, traveling the country and speaking at other churches, appearing on talk shows, and writing books. God's Politics : Why the Right Gets It Wrong and the Left Doesn't Get It, by pastor Jim Wallis. The Sins of Scripture and Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism, by retired bishop John Shelby Spong. The Rapture Exposed, by the Rev. Barbara Rossing. She wanted to title it The Rapture Racket, but it frightened her publisher. And there is Kingdom Coming : The Rise of Christian Nationalism, by Michelle Goldberg. And there are many more I could list, but those are a good start. It takes a lot to get these folks riled up, but it looks like it's finally happened. Don Firth |
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03 Aug 06 - 10:05 PM (#1801083) Subject: RE: BS: Not all evangelicals are alike From: Peace "Darwin's Views on Religion Written for His Children in 1876 Published Posthumously in 1887" Darwin's views in Darwin's words. |
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03 Aug 06 - 10:33 PM (#1801098) Subject: RE: BS: Not all evangelicals are alike From: LilyFestre I knew we could count on Brucie to bring in the sheep.........*smirk* Michelle |
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04 Aug 06 - 09:14 AM (#1801361) Subject: RE: BS: Not all evangelicals are alike From: Charley Noble Did you all see the "wolf" in the back row? Cheerily, Charley Noble |
