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19 Aug 06 - 08:35 AM (#1813714) Subject: Johnny Cash: The Kitsch of Death! From: Peter T. Jody Rosen at Slate.com has written an interesting piece about the last Johnny Cash records, concerning their somewhat kitschy (but very traditional for country music) use of DEATH, DEATH, DEATH. It has always seemed a bit over the top to me, but Jody is the first person I have seen to point it out. I particularly liked the references to all the other stuff Johnny did (like having the Monkees on his TV show) before he DESCENDED (ASCENDED) into ultimate BLACKNESS........ yours, Peter T. |
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19 Aug 06 - 09:00 AM (#1813720) Subject: RE: Johnny Cash: The Kitsch of Death! From: katlaughing If it's about Johnny, I think we can post the whole article, though I don't agree that his music was cornball nor pop: Johnny Cash, CornballCan pop music be both great art and shameless kitsch? By Jody Rosen Updated Tuesday, Aug. 15, 2006, at 10:58 AM ET These days, it's hard to find anyone who isn't a Johnny Cash fan. Three years after his death, he's become one of those rare musicians held in near-universal esteem. Everyone knows he's great, and his music is touched with such timeless and ineffable cool that hipsters still love him despite his embrace by the unhip. Cash's posthumous career, needless to say, is going very well. A best-of CD landed in the Billboard Top 10 last year, and a new album, American V: A Hundred Highways, arrived on July 4 and promptly hit No. 1. It's the first Cash album to top the pop charts since Johnny Cash at Folsom Prison (1968)—proof positive that as much as we esteem our "living legends," we prefer them recently dead and deified in Hollywood biopics. The current wave of Cash-mania kicked into high gear with last year's Walk the Line, but the real force behind the Cash revival is Rick Rubin, the rock/hip-hop super-producer who oversaw the singer's last five studio albums. Together, they're dubbed the American Recordings series, and A Hundred Highways is the fifth volume. Rubin remembers a time when Cash had considerably less cachet. The producer saw his first Cash concert in the early 1990s—at an Orange County dinner theater. Cash had been dropped by Columbia Records, had made a string of lackluster albums for Mercury, and was contemplating an end to his recording career altogether. He'd been largely abandoned by country fans—his relationship with the Nashville establishment was always chilly—and the rock audience that had discovered him through Bob Dylan in the late '60s had likewise moved on. Rubin's solution was simple; in fact, his solution was simplicity. On American Recordings (1994), Rubin stripped back the musical arrangements to a bare minimum, setting Cash's fathoms-deep baritone against stark acoustic guitar picking. Throw in a couple of surprising rock cover tunes, a video starring Kate Moss, and appearances at the Viper Room in L.A., and the rest was history—up shot the record sales and in rolled the Grammys. |
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19 Aug 06 - 09:39 AM (#1813730) Subject: RE: Johnny Cash: The Kitsch of Death! From: GUEST,Wesley S If you want to talk about simplicity let me rave again about the recent CD release "Johnny Cash - Personal File". These were home recordings made during the 70's - just Johnny and his guitar. No band - no production - but really great stuff. Where else can you hear him sing "Drink to me only with thine eyes" and "I'll take you home again Kathleen"? |
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19 Aug 06 - 01:35 PM (#1813852) Subject: RE: Johnny Cash: The Kitsch of Death! From: Joe Offer ....and how is the use of DEATH, DEATH, DEATH any different from the Child Ballads, Peter? Hey, death sells. But I think there has always been a "dark side" to Johnny Cash, since I first heard of him in the 60's - and yes, that dark side was exciteing and appealing to people. Kitsch?-Not really. Marketing?-of course, but I think the American Recordings marketing has been quite tasteful. If they're successful, good for them. -Joe- |
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19 Aug 06 - 01:41 PM (#1813853) Subject: RE: Johnny Cash: The Kitsch of Death! From: Ron Davies I'd say "I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die" is pretty direct. |
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19 Aug 06 - 01:46 PM (#1813856) Subject: RE: Johnny Cash: The Kitsch of Death! From: Peter T. Yes, as I said, very traditional for country music. My favourite is "The Baggage Coach Ahead". Only a person with a heart of stone could keep from laughing...... yours, Peter T. |
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19 Aug 06 - 01:52 PM (#1813859) Subject: RE: Johnny Cash: The Kitsch of Death! From: Ron Davies Actually I find "The Baggage Coach Ahead" very affecting when sung right. It's easy to be too cynical--and pretty widespread around here. |
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19 Aug 06 - 01:53 PM (#1813860) Subject: RE: Johnny Cash: The Kitsch of Death! From: Ebbie Peter T, I am no fan of melodrama nor do I consider a dead body a sacred object. However, your post up top is very different from the insightful musing I am accustomed to seeing from you. As far as the Baggage Coach song is concerned, I would guess that if one of us - you. I. - had traveled to retrieve the body of a dear one for burial at home among dear ones, we - I. You.- might feel just a bit overwhelmed. |
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19 Aug 06 - 02:08 PM (#1813875) Subject: RE: Johnny Cash: The Kitsch of Death! From: Goose Gander There was always a fair amount of DEATH DEATH DEATH in the music of Johnny Cash. Some of my favorites . . . Long Black Veil . . . Don't Take Your Guns to Town . . . The Wall . . . Dark as a Dungeon . . . . Kitschy? Sounds like a journalist looking for an angle. |
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19 Aug 06 - 02:09 PM (#1813878) Subject: RE: Johnny Cash: The Kitsch of Death! From: Peter T. Oh, dear. And I was about to wax eloquent about "He Stopped Loving Her Today". And what is that great song about the girl who was run over and pops up along the road a year later? (At least I think she was run over.....) yours, Peter T. |
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19 Aug 06 - 02:18 PM (#1813883) Subject: RE: Johnny Cash: The Kitsch of Death! From: Ron Davies QED. |
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19 Aug 06 - 02:31 PM (#1813903) Subject: RE: Johnny Cash: The Kitsch of Death! From: Jeri The more horrible a thing is, the more humans joke about it. We don't laugh at the people who die but at death itself. If the Baggage Coach were personal to us, it would be sad. As it is an obvious (and in this century, ham-handed) attempt to force tears out of people, it's not. I don't think Cash did more songs about death than most country artists. The Carter Family repertoire is full of them, bluegrass, old time, Irish songs about 'I'll live until I die', and dead people who aren't dead, songs about Heaven or Hell, etc. The song about the girl who was run over? Was that Walking/Driving/Taking Whatserface Home? |
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19 Aug 06 - 02:33 PM (#1813908) Subject: RE: Johnny Cash: The Kitsch of Death! From: Ron Davies It is not "ham-handed" when sung right. Cynicism--as above--QED. |
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19 Aug 06 - 02:55 PM (#1813928) Subject: RE: Johnny Cash: The Kitsch of Death! From: Lonesome EJ Johnny Cash is a true icon of American Music, and had one of THE most distinctive voices in Country. He doesn't hold a candle to Merle Haggard as a songwriter, though. As to Death as a subject for music, why the folk tradition is just full of that from "Edward, Edward" to "1,000 Dollar Wedding". It can be schmaltzy (Green, Green Grass of Home), spooky (O Death), and jauntily bizarre (Knoxville Girl). In fact, songs like Pretty Polly and Knoxville Girl hold a special place in my heart with their twisted combination of love and murder. Reckon that's my Scotch-Irish ancestry. Or maybe the Cherokee. |
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19 Aug 06 - 03:06 PM (#1813934) Subject: RE: Johnny Cash: The Kitsch of Death! From: pdq "what is that great song about the girl who was run over and pops up along the road a year later? " Are you thinking of "Bringing Mary Home"? |
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20 Aug 06 - 09:56 AM (#1814411) Subject: RE: Johnny Cash: The Kitsch of Death! From: Ron Davies In fact the vast majority of upbeat Sacred Harp songs are about death--and there are a lot. It seems clear a lot of people in the 19th century were looking forward to the next world. Their lives must have been quintessentially Hobbesian. |
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20 Aug 06 - 03:17 PM (#1814552) Subject: RE: Johnny Cash: The Kitsch of Death! From: Goose Gander "Their lives must have been quintessentially Hobbesian." I take this to mean 'nasty, brutish and short'. This is not necessarily so and certainly not the reason for the popularity of other-wordly themes in Sacred Harp music. Unless of course you would identify any religious sentiment as evidence of misery on earth. Back to Johnny Cash, I doubt that his death-related material indicates any excessive morbidity among his fans, either. |
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20 Aug 06 - 03:19 PM (#1814555) Subject: RE: Johnny Cash: The Kitsch of Death! From: DoctorJug JC did indeed sing a lot about death, also judgement, redemption, the darkness in his soul et c. In his years as the black-berobed Cash he found a wide audience. Some British Goths showed a new respect. One was Head of Science at a high school. At the first departmental meeting after JC died, the Science man called for, and got, a minute's silence before business. Kitsch, JC was not. |
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20 Aug 06 - 04:05 PM (#1814586) Subject: RE: Johnny Cash: The Kitsch of Death! From: GUEST,Art Thieme Jim Croce had VERY LITTLE notoriety until he died. Then the music biz and his record label finally got into pushing him big time. The result was "Big Bad Leroy Brown" and a slew of other hits... The fact is that I've only started selling a few recordings since I've been unable to perform---other than the 5 or 10 I'd sell out of my trunk after gigs. Don't get me wrong----I do appreciate the attention (while here in limbo) so I can see and appreciate some of it. But Fantasy Records, who owns my first 2 LPs----made for Kicking Mule in the 1970s, will most probably sit on those until I die. Than they'll sell 'em to Critic's Choice's catalogue where they will be hyped and squeezed for all the few $$$$$$$ it's possible to get out of them. It's happened to and with the deaths of thousands of musicians---and actors and actresses and presidents and kings and ex-wives of princes. (And even if it comes as a shock, I've got to tell you that Elvis ain't king o' NOTHING!)--It is a strange dynamic for sure. It's even more bizarre to sit here at this new-fangled computer thing and magically orchestrate some of my own legacy. "Who'd a thunk it!!??" To paraphrase the great Thomas Wolfe, "This life, this world, is stranger than a dream!" ---- And, if ya ask me, a little nuts too. Art |
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20 Aug 06 - 04:55 PM (#1814610) Subject: RE: Johnny Cash: The Kitsch of Death! From: Mark Clark Art, If I had the money I'd buy the rights, tapes and masters from Fantasy and send them to you. And the Boston Globe piece is wrong, it's over 40 years. Like, what, 45 years? I sing and play a lot of bluegrass and it hasn't escaped my notice that most bluegrass songs deal with death and loss. I can't think of more than one or two memorable songs that celebrate success. People don't often express elation in art. It's loss that gets us brooding and thinking wanting to express that feeling just to get by it. And it's sympathy or empathy that connects us with art and artists. I hear a voice out in the darkness,I don't know how one could fail to be touched by that. Or by this... Tomorrow as the sun goes down, These things are timeless. Themes of death and loss will continue to endure and be the songs that are most often sung. - Mark |
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20 Aug 06 - 09:05 PM (#1814755) Subject: RE: Johnny Cash: The Kitsch of Death! From: Ron Davies Michael-- Have you actually looked through the Sacred Harp book? There are LOTS of upbeat songs about death. It is a distinct possibility that with TB, smallpox, typhoid, etc. a lot of the lives of the 19th century folks who sang Sacred Harp were in fact Hobbesian--and that they derived some comfort from songs asssuring them that things would be better in the next world. Why is this not so? |
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20 Aug 06 - 10:03 PM (#1814780) Subject: RE: Johnny Cash: The Kitsch of Death! From: Peter T. Whatever they say, it's a lousy career move -- Art Thieme is long, life is short! yours, Peter T. |
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21 Aug 06 - 02:04 AM (#1814864) Subject: RE: Johnny Cash: The Kitsch of Death! From: Goose Gander Yes, I am familiar with the subject matter of Sacred Harp, and I don't doubt that Sacred Harp singers had tough lives, as have most of the human race throughout most of history. I have two problems with your formulation. First of all, getting a little into philosophy, Thomas Hobbes wrote that life in a state of nature was "nasty, brutish and short." His antidote to this was the Leviathan state which held strict control and regulated society to mitigate the worst excesses of life's endless misery. There is no similar philosophical underpinning to the theology of Sacred Harp. Second of all, and perhaps more important, I don't believe the focus upon death in Sacred Harp reflected escapism and longing for death as much as it demonstrated a deep need to make sense of earthly suffering and thus to find the strength to live through it. In other words, the focus upon death in Sacred Harp was rooted in a desire to overcome suffering and thus was an adaptive response to objective conditions. |
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21 Aug 06 - 10:25 AM (#1815101) Subject: RE: Johnny Cash: The Kitsch of Death! From: Peter T. And of course, as Rousseau and Marshall Sahlins pointed out, life in a state of nature, while arguably short, was not particularly nasty. Lots of leisure time, ritual wars with little killing, and small community life. yours, Peter T. |
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21 Aug 06 - 10:56 AM (#1815122) Subject: RE: Johnny Cash: The Kitsch of Death! From: GUEST,Russ A fair amount of "great art" is shameless kitch. |
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22 Aug 06 - 10:34 PM (#1816636) Subject: RE: Johnny Cash: The Kitsch of Death! From: Ron Davies Michael-- I believe you have misunderstood what I said--and that we're actually not that far apart. I believe that the focus on death in Sacred Harp, especially in the 19th century--when it was so omnipresent--was in some instances a comfort for some of the Sacred Harp singers. No matter what their sufferings here--which were many--they were assured of a better life in "Canaan's fair and happy land where my possessions lie". Many did probably believe in a literal life hereafter--death was just the portal--and found it comforting. They obviously, as healthy individuals, were not longing for death--but when mortally ill, did not fear death as much as the 20th century seemed to. And the words and music of Sacred Harp reflect this. And your reference to Hobbes is a red herring. Nasty, brutish and short is correct--many lives were in fact that--but to extrapolate from that a longing for the Leviathan state also is unjustified. "Hobbesian" in general usage is often used as shorthand for "nasty, brutish and short"--and nothing else. And I suspect you know this. By the way, how much Sacred Harp singing have you done? |
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22 Aug 06 - 10:54 PM (#1816647) Subject: RE: Johnny Cash: The Kitsch of Death! From: catspaw49 "And of course, as Rousseau and Marshall Sahlins pointed out, life in a state of nature, while arguably short, was not particularly nasty. Lots of leisure time, ritual wars with little killing, and small community life. yours, Peter T." #################################################################################################################### A good point PT.....AND FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO WANT MORE LEISURE BUT IN TODAY'S WORLD DON'T HAVE THE TIME... LANE,FIELDING,PATTERSON,& SWANYes Friends, in today's rush-rush world we all know the importance of leisure time and rest and relaxation. But finding that R&R time is tough with the current economy. That's why you need LFPS. We will gladly go on your vacations, sleep on your deck, take out your new boat, your wife, your girlfriend, whatever. We do for you what you'd want to do but just can't fit in. We can do it for you. You get the benefits of free time and fun while still working at your job! So when doing sweet damn all is simply too damn much call LFPS. |
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22 Aug 06 - 11:55 PM (#1816696) Subject: RE: Johnny Cash: The Kitsch of Death! From: Lonesome EJ Can't you stop selling for five fucking minutes, Catspaw |
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23 Aug 06 - 12:12 AM (#1816713) Subject: RE: Johnny Cash: The Kitsch of Death! From: catspaw49 Nah...Can't do it. I mean we're doing well and all but I keep finishing each month second or worse in billed hours. Fielding is just kicking ass and making the rest of us look bad. I dunno' how things work in his current location but it seems he can be in hundreds of places at the same time if he wants. I mean we all share in the profits regardless but I'd like to be Partner of the Month sometime. Spaw |
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23 Aug 06 - 02:25 AM (#1816754) Subject: RE: Johnny Cash: The Kitsch of Death! From: Goose Gander Ron Davies- Maybe we should consider why the nearness of death inspired Sacred Heart singers to create their art, when the similar experience of others in the nineteenth century and earlier times led to different artistic expressions and emotional reactions. And you used the weighted term in question, so I don't think it was unfair of me to question its appropriateness. I have never done any Sacred Harp singing, though I enjoy listening to it. Back to Johnny Cash, if he was sincere and his audience took him seriously, I wouldn't call it kitsch. |
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23 Aug 06 - 03:28 AM (#1816780) Subject: RE: Johnny Cash: The Kitsch of Death! From: Peter T. Yeah but Catspaw has carried one part of this to a new level: Laying about while still vertical. I don't want to, you know, dis the other members of L, F, P& S, but there are rumours that they, well, work. yours, Peter T. |
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24 Aug 06 - 01:21 AM (#1817605) Subject: RE: Johnny Cash: The Kitsch of Death! From: Lonesome EJ Spaw, face it. You're an amateur at it. You can't be a total layabout and still be a semi-psychotic gear-head with a morbid NASCAR fascination, not to mention an outlandish obsession with celery-related soft pornography. You're an incurable type A caffeine addict who has already worn out 6 sets of heart valves, not to mention pistons and rings. Seriously. Give it up. You're just too tense for the professional loitering business. |