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29 Aug 06 - 09:54 AM (#1821637) Subject: BS: Examples of good web page design From: Stilly River Sage I'm going to be redesigning some web pages for a friend. The one he had before is kaput right now, but it was busy and full of stuff that made it difficult to update or change. Periodically I survey the literature, as it were, to see what people are doing. Last spring I took a refresher web design course (it turned out to be too simple, but I was just looking to see if there were any new trends they wanted to mention). It seems that what was old is new again--tables are back. Frames and some of the high-octane javascript pages are out of favor when compared to simple, malleable tables. My own pages at work are that way, but I'm not selling anything (except higher education, but that's a different subject). My friend offers tours and a book for sale. I'm going to trim down some of the verbiage, or maybe just provide hot spots where a mouse-over will bring up alt text with each testimonial he wants to run. He has way too many of them--yards and yards of them. People aren't going to read beyond the first screen, so there is a lot of convincing that goes along with the redesign. Have you noticed any good looking simply-designed pages lately? Will you provide a link to them so we can take a look and possibly discuss the pros and cons here? The test may well be in the source code, but all suggestions will be welcome, especially from folks who have been doing enough web design to have formed some opinions about what makes for a good commercial web page. Thanks! SRS |
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29 Aug 06 - 10:27 AM (#1821665) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: Clinton Hammond Frames suck! Go CSS or go home |
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29 Aug 06 - 10:57 AM (#1821706) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: katlaughing SRS, this fellow is a friend of sorts, he was an editor in WY who liked and published my writing. He's since moved to Texas to be a managing editor for the Beaumont Enterprise and written several books, goes on tours, etc. I really like his website design. When I finally get a new one, I am going to see about following some of his layout, etc. Here ya go: Ron Franscell. His novels are good, too! |
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29 Aug 06 - 11:13 AM (#1821718) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: Stilly River Sage I use CSS, Clinton. Thank you for starting us on such a generous and jovial tone. Thanks Kat. |
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29 Aug 06 - 11:17 AM (#1821722) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: Clinton Hammond Here's what SilkTide.com has to say about ronfranscell.com I think I would be disinclined to call it a 'good' example. |
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29 Aug 06 - 11:24 AM (#1821724) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: Old Guy CCS is good for some things but pages loaded with JAVA and frames are not search engine friendly. Surf around, find a site you like and view the source code. If it is readable, use it as a template (copy the sucker) and modify it to suit you manually. I use WordPad. I learned HTML, JAVA, CSS etc. by viewing pages and changing the code to see what happens and by reading tutorials on the net. I never found an editor I like except maybe FP 2.0 I use CSS to control font faces, colors and sizes and JAVA to obscure Mailtos from spambots. I quit using frames and made entire pages the way they would look after the frame changes. |
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29 Aug 06 - 11:36 AM (#1821733) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: katlaughing Thanks for the link, CH. I didn't know anything like SilkTide existed. I still like the looks and simplicity of use of Ron's site. Checked my website, while it had some deficiencies, SilkTide said it ranked 143 in the world!?? I have a hard time believing that, but I liked these ratings: Marketing How well marketed, and popular the website is. 8.1 Design How well designed and built the website is. 8.6 Accessibility How accessible the website is, particularly to those with disabilities. 5.6 Experience How satisfying the website is likely to be. 9.0 Apparently it is in violation of a disbilities act in the UK and would be illegal there. It's just a template I used at tripod. Later, this year, I am going to see about doing a new one without tripod, etc. kat |
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29 Aug 06 - 11:40 AM (#1821735) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: Clinton Hammond "Checked my website... SilkTide said it ranked 143 in the world!" What's yer url? |
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29 Aug 06 - 12:04 PM (#1821746) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: Old Guy And I forgot. If you ever try to view the code in a page and you can't, you can find it in your browsers cache files. |
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29 Aug 06 - 01:08 PM (#1821806) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: Sorcha Personally, I don't care for Ron's site...it's busy, the background hurts my eyes,too many colours, and I don't like 'Front Pages'. I've already 'entered' so why should I have to click to enter again? |
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29 Aug 06 - 01:26 PM (#1821825) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: Bill D Here is a site by friends of mine who do crafts. He is very careful how he presents his site. http://tigerlilyworkshop.com/ |
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29 Aug 06 - 01:33 PM (#1821832) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: Bill D and another pretty 'simple' site by a woodturner who strives for a clean look, and just did some cosmetic changes. http://www.aroundthewoods.com/ |
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29 Aug 06 - 01:58 PM (#1821862) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: Mr Red think of your target audience. Not everyone has the latest fastest PC (or even a Mac) and there are more people on dial-up than the ISP's would have you believe. So think about loading time, size of pictures and don't ask me to look at it if it has Flash. Never put links in a Flash file and have a "skip" button for avoiding the movie. Keep It Simple. I asked 'catters to look at mine and got useful comments - especially about odd set-ups. I put all the cleverness into JavaScript etc which controls things that don't alter the data - only the look of it. see here and you can ask me if there is anything that you can use I use DreamWeaver for some pages and replicate hand coding in VBA for tabular pages. It may not look exciting which is a consequence of the above. - but then it is an information site not a TV programme. |
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29 Aug 06 - 03:33 PM (#1821967) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: Stilly River Sage Old Guy, I use style sheets, sometimes in the document, sometimes remotely. With tables and simple effects pages load easily and quickly. I find it annoying that I can't see things or stuff is blocked because of how pages are put together, so I try not to do it to others. And if someone has dialup I want my page to load before they get tired of waiting and click away. Viewing source code is one of the great "open secrets" of web design. I borrow code all the time. You can even take an entire page, strip out their stuff and drop in your own if you like the placement of things. Just be sure to change the titles and notes and such! I can browse all over the place, and have done so in the past. I look at a lot of the newspaper links to see how they arrange their front pages (a good source to those is NewsVoyager.) I was thinking that if others have done similar browsing and have bookmarked sites they liked they might share them. SRS |
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29 Aug 06 - 04:55 PM (#1822044) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: Stilly River Sage Looking at the two Bill D linked two, they show two important choices for web designers. Keep the table a set size, or use the "100%" feature in the web design program and fill whatever size browser window is being used. I usually favor the first look, keeping it within a space of about 800 pixels wide, and keeping the most important information in the first screen (the equivalent of "above the fold" in newspapers). I'm one of those computer users who has several windows open at once and keeps each browser window at a smaller size than the full screen. SRS |
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29 Aug 06 - 06:17 PM (#1822112) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: leeneia Hints from a non-expert: Don't use sans serif script Don't use any print smaller than what you see right here. Don't put patterns or pictures behind print Don't have images that flash, jiggle or bounce I hate web sites that are intended to sell but don't reveal prices. Once the site is designed, have a number of bystanders pretend to be potential customers and ask them to use the site. |
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29 Aug 06 - 06:45 PM (#1822143) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: GUEST,Jon Just had another look at this SilkTide site that Clinon linked to. While it is probably very good for some things, I would not rely on it's scoring for design. I'll give what just happened to me: I thought I'd try folkinfo.org/forum, not expecting (and didn't get) much. I was a bit surprised at my score of about 5 and getting the "faild Brittish disability lawa bt) for accessibility as I had build the new site to be HTML 4.1 compliant but found I had introduced 2 errors since (one unquoted attribute and on mistyped one). OK I fixed those and re-run and got a score of 9.3. Anyway, I thought the previous "judgement" was rather harsh for what was wrong and thought I'd try mudcat/threads.cfm to see how that got dealt with as I know there are a few errors here. To my amazement, it scored 9.3. Anyway, I went over to w3c and tried thier validator. With the 2 errors fixed, I got a pass for that page. I then tried the mudcat page and found it wouldn't really validate at all because it complained about a charater (which I would guess is in the user content) present not existing in the utf charater encoding it was using, perventing a proper error report. Anyway, I changed character set and got a validation. I then tried different "doc-types" as one isn't given (itself an error as far as the validation goes) and the best I could get was around 625 errors reported. A lot of these are "repeats" BTW - an error in the html for a link to a thread for example would repeat for each thread, so it's not really as frightening as 625 might make one think. Still, Silk Thread had given a pass! It doen't seem to be taking any notice of failurs that prevent a detailed error report from w3c but instead blindly gives the OK. |
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29 Aug 06 - 07:02 PM (#1822165) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: Clinton Hammond Don't have your web site automatically play music!! That's even worse than scrolling, blinking text! |
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29 Aug 06 - 07:04 PM (#1822166) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: GUEST,Jon In general, I agree but I love Contemplator... |
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29 Aug 06 - 07:20 PM (#1822177) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: katlaughing http://katsagewalker.tripod.com |
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29 Aug 06 - 07:57 PM (#1822211) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: GUEST,Jon kat, I think the move away from Tripod will be a good idea. For reference, here is the validation for your site using the w3c tood directly. What I try to aim for is this. but sometimes I slip up. Should check with each change I suppose... |
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29 Aug 06 - 08:40 PM (#1822239) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: Bill D One thing that upsets me is the 'target=blank' command in the code, which forces a link to open in a new tab or page. It is easy for a visitor to GET a link, even if it's just a large copy of an image, to open in a new tab, but it is WORK to override this and have the option left like you wish! (I have a script in Proxomitron which 'usually' controls this) Likewise, I object to pages where MY choices of how 'visited links' should appear are not respected. (color change, underlining...etc.) In almost all things, I like to have the option of have my browsing experience controlled by me, not by some programmers idea of what HE thinks it should be. (yes, I know why some commercial sites want to 'direct' you, but they usually lose whatever chance they might have had for my business if they mess with my settings!) |
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29 Aug 06 - 09:11 PM (#1822255) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: katlaughing Thanks, Jon. That makes more sense to me than the other evaluator, though the programming is beyond me. |
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29 Aug 06 - 09:26 PM (#1822262) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: Stilly River Sage This isn't web design 101, I've been doing it for years. I should have just asked outright for pages you like well enough that you'd steal their idea. I wasn't asking what to do or not to do in my first web page. ;-) Be that as it may, I don't use backgrounds at all very often (let alone busy ones), I sometimes make the outermost background black to emphasize my page (a table), I quite frequently set links up to target a blank page, because I want to have them continue reading my page even though I also want them to take a quick look at something else. Using javascript to pop up a window to take a look at the same thing is too much work and is blocked by many browsers' security features or by firewall programs. I hate having music pop up when I'm not expecting it, even good music, and I don't like the tricks that make it almost impossible to leave a page, just short of turning off your computer. SRS |
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30 Aug 06 - 12:02 AM (#1822353) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: Stilly River Sage I've been visiting the sites and validator pages listed above. Very interesting. I find that the pages I've done for work in Front Page are (to no surprise) missing some important pieces of information because it doesn't start out with them and I've gotten out of the habit of looking to see if they're there. I used to include a lot of it by manually adding it (the DOCTYPE and language info, for example). I've used some features that, when I correct this omission, stop working. [sigh] Time to review the current protocol. I can still use tables, I'll just have to use an editor that is not so sloppy. Maybe the Dreamweaver is out of the dustbin after all. I wish it was a little more intuitive than it is, though. I don't use it often enough to remember all of the bits about it that make it so much better than FrontPage. The sloppiness is is one of the reasons why FrontPage isn't the best around. It's just the one I've been stuck using for so long. I've been poking around for examples of pages and will have to do something soon to repair my friend's page. The information has been very helpful, thanks, all! SRS |
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30 Aug 06 - 03:40 AM (#1822424) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: GUEST,Jon As for tools, I'm mostly on Linux and I use Quanta Plus. I haven't tried it for visual design, I just like it for it's syntax highlighting and assisting with functions when working wth php/html. My own HTML and visual bits are very basic though. The more complicated bits (if any) are server side. I've avoided JavaScript but have (again) been toying with using it for a WISIWIG editor. Aptana (which is cross platform) seems to be good for that. I have also found the DOM inspector (which you get by doing a custom install and enabling design tools) in Firefox useful. The Web Developer toolbar for the Mozilla based browsers can also come in very handy when playing with web pages. Onto the wysiwig editor. I've been looking around but haven't quite found what I want. I like AreaEdit which can do more than shown in this "simple example" but the main js file is nearly 200K and thier are plugins on top of that. A lighter weight one is whizzywig which I might use but at the moment am having a go writing my own, using the whizzywig code as a "helper". Not sure I will get there though. Apart from trying to learn a new language (OK a lot is similar enough to things I do sort of "know", I'm a bit put off by browser differences and possible compatibility issues... |
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30 Aug 06 - 04:14 AM (#1822445) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: GUEST From: katlaughing Date: 29 Aug 06 - 11:36 AM Checked my website, while it had some deficiencies, SilkTide said it ranked 143 in the world!?? I have a hard time believing that, but I liked these ratings: Sorry to tell you this, I got the same ranking: Popularity ranking Your website is ranked 143 in the world. This is excellent and shows you have an exceptionally popular website. Might they be snowing us? It looks as if they are using the "test"/ free online report, as way to solicit business. |
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30 Aug 06 - 05:03 AM (#1822481) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: Tootler If you want current thinking on web standards, this is a site to look at: www.webstandards.org/ I recently did a site for our recorder society and ran it through the w3c validator until it passed. here it is, fwiw. all hand coded as I have found that most editors are either far too expensive for the amount I use them and/or add a lot of unnecessary code. (Speaking purely as an amateur, but I used to maintain quite an extensive site of materials for my students before I retired) To Leeneia: You say don't use sans-serif font. This is contrary to the advice I received at a workshop on accessibility after the coming into force of the UK disability discrimination act. We were advised that Sans serif fonts are more easily read on screen by those with visual impairment. If you look at many recent recentsites the fonts are sans serif, including the web standards site I linked to in this message. |
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30 Aug 06 - 10:00 AM (#1822679) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: Stilly River Sage Many of the tags I use to post to Mudcat are "depreciated" in some of the forms of html, like the "font" tage, but they're taken care of in your CSS text. An important thing to do is remember to update your style sheet as you work on your pages. |
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30 Aug 06 - 10:01 AM (#1822681) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: Stilly River Sage Darn. It posted before I ran the spell check. . . |
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30 Aug 06 - 10:30 AM (#1822704) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: GUEST,Jon Yes, I would run into problems with 4.01 strict rather than the 4.1 transitional I'm using for that reason, SRS. I suppose I will have to succumb to CSS one day... The reasons I didn't when I did the re-write almost a year ago was a) I still had a couple of browsers that didn't get on well with CSS installed and avoiding it worked with everything I had and b) in the places where I thought it possible I might want to change an attribute for a general look, it was easy enough to use variables instead, eg. this would be possible. In a configuration file: $warningfont="<font color="black>"; $defaultfont="<font color="red>"; $closefont="<\font>"; Somewhere in the middle of a php page: echo $warningfont . "Here is a warning" . $closefont; echo $defaultfont . "Back to normal",.$closefont; |
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30 Aug 06 - 10:33 AM (#1822708) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: katlaughing Jon, is Quanta something a prgramming illiterate could use? I went to tripod, years ago, after reading what you had to say about it. The only thing I really know about programming is a bit of html and I am able to read code and kind of figure out where to change things to my liking, i.e. color, etc. Sorry, SRS, for thread drift for beginners.:-) |
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30 Aug 06 - 10:58 AM (#1822723) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: GUEST,Jon kat, I can't remember what I said but we must have our wires crossed somewhere along the line. Quanta Plus is a KDE program. It probably works on other XWindows desktops such as Gnome but you won't be using it on your Windows installation. Aptana would run on your system (with Java installed) you may like to look and see what you think of it although it seems rather more focused on developing AJAX/javascript projects. Another freebe you might like to take a look at is Microsft Visual Web Developer 2005 Express Edition. Not sure how it compares to the Front page family. A free source editor I remember good comments made here for is aracnophilia |
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30 Aug 06 - 01:35 PM (#1822825) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: katlaughing Thanks, Jon, I didn't realise Quanta was mostly for Linux, if I am reading you right. I appreciate the other links and will look them over. kat |
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30 Aug 06 - 01:36 PM (#1822826) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: Bill D Arachnophilia is well known and excellent...but you need to make a choice whether to use the newer JAVA version, or the older one..(read what the author says near the bottom of the screen) The rest of Paul Lutus' site is interesting also...he is a man of STRONG opinion. |
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30 Aug 06 - 02:12 PM (#1822852) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: GUEST,Jon Yes Kat, KDE is for Linux, Unix, etc.. It's one of the common desktop enviroments - see here. |
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30 Aug 06 - 02:28 PM (#1822869) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: GUEST,Jon Love Paul Lutus' views on MS :-) |
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30 Aug 06 - 02:55 PM (#1822888) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: Stilly River Sage Kat, I didn't mean to exclude the beginner's web design chat, just to note that it wasn't necessary to fulfill my request. As it happens, I've been poking through my pages at work and updating links. I have a general browser question, for anyone who has been intreptid enough to download version 7, the latest Internet Explorer. Is this a "for real" program, or is it still beta? Any scuttlebutt on the types of errors users are encountering? Any time you upgrade browsers you risk leaving behind your web viewers if they don't also have the latest greatest version of a browser that you're looking at when you view your pages online. I'd probably do a new install, not an upgrade, and use this for a while side-by-side the old IE to see how it looks. Has anyone tried it? SRS |
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30 Aug 06 - 03:06 PM (#1822898) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: Stilly River Sage Ah, translation time: I'll bet that "Release Candidate 1" is computer geek-speak for "beta." SRS |
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30 Aug 06 - 03:26 PM (#1822917) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: GUEST,Jon I see it is only for XP and Server 2003 so I won't be trying it. I only use IE to open the occasional poor (MS specific) site and to see what pages look like if doing a web site. Firefox is my browser of choice on both Linux and Win. |
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30 Aug 06 - 07:14 PM (#1823073) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: Stilly River Sage My kids use Firefox most of the time, but I'm a creature of habit and I started with IE years ago. I used to use Netscape a lot. I think I even paid for it one time, that's how long ago it was. |
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30 Aug 06 - 11:12 PM (#1823213) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: Stilly River Sage I've had to throw up my hands on getting my friend's page to load. I've downloaded and tweaked and analysed and can't figure it out. They look fine here. There is something lodged in the web site that is not letting the correct page load, and I can't figure out what it is. If he goes back to his web designer, he needs to have the guy take the bells and whistles out of the page, they're not necessary. SRS |
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31 Aug 06 - 11:26 AM (#1823621) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: Stilly River Sage After sleeping on it, I think I've figured it out. There's an extra set of files in there, probably a result of that errant "put" that were never eliminated when the web hosts restored the pages. I probably didn't need to have anything restored, just remove that string of files. Now if I can find a way to get it out of there, I'm set. SRS |
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21 Sep 06 - 09:19 PM (#1840435) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: Stilly River Sage Thanks, Jenny, for linking back here. I went ahead and rebuilt my friend's pages, and though they're not complete they're up and running. I'll post a link one of these days, when it is up to where we can stop tweaking it every couple of days. I did sort out what was happening with the extra files, and I find FileZilla to be a marvelous little program. I highly recommend it (thanks again, Bill D!) SRS |
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13 Feb 08 - 02:52 PM (#2261620) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: katlaughing Now that I am up to date, I find out MS dumped Frontpage a couple of years ago. Must've been just when I learned to use it! I'd like to redesign my website, but need it to be really simple and easy to do. I've seen some folks say they do it in Notepad. I have NOtepad, of course, but how to I see what I have designed, i.e. not the html but the actual design that someone would see when they find my site? Also, with my new MS Office, I see I have something called MS Office OneNote which seems to be sort of like FrontPage, but, again, I don't see how to view it as an actual webpage as I could in FP. Finally, are there other, better programs out there, which would be better to use to build my website? Something simple? I know Anahata suggested something in one of the other threads, but I can't find it now and it was from a few years ago. Thanks, katstartingfromscratch,again |
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13 Feb 08 - 03:08 PM (#2261635) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: John Hardly my favorite in appearance |
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13 Feb 08 - 07:22 PM (#2261816) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: Jim Dixon Here's a web site I like a lot: Arts & Letters Daily. I like it mainly for its content—links to interesting articles in other publications—but its structure seems beautifully adapted to its purpose. |
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14 Feb 08 - 07:17 AM (#2262129) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: The Fooles Troupe I use (shareware) EditPlus - even bought it - allows editing in many computing languages. It highlights the 'constructions' (the 'buckets' - eg Bold, [] etc) so that if you get one wrong, it shows up as black instead of the correct colour coding. |
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14 Feb 08 - 11:38 AM (#2262289) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: Stilly River Sage Well, darn. I just upgraded my Adobe software and I didn't get the newest Dreamweaver in the package I picked up (just got the print end of things). I've been using Frontpage for a while now, but haven't upgraded that in ages. The learning curve for Dreamweaver is substantial, but if Frontpage has gone away, I guess I'll have to try Dreamweaver again one of these days. SRS |
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14 Feb 08 - 11:41 AM (#2262295) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: katlaughing Thanks, Fooles. Maggie, LOL...I odn't feel so "duh" knowing that you didn't know FrontPage was done for, too.:-) |
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14 Feb 08 - 12:12 PM (#2262329) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: Big Al Whittle This is interesting - why not have the music start automatically -I do.. I always wish I could make the words go from side to side like some clever mudcatters do in their messages. I do mine with a system called sitebuilder, which is very easy to use. But I suspect not for those in the know, who know how to do really cool flashy sites. |
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14 Feb 08 - 12:39 PM (#2262350) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: Stilly River Sage I think I heard it, but it didn't register very strongly. The version I'm using these days is going strong (knock wood!). I've had to resurrect other old Microsoft programs (PhotoDraw) for a few obscure applications, and it is in the computer as a freestanding program. It can be done, and with Frontpage, probably will be done for a while yet. SRS |
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14 Feb 08 - 01:08 PM (#2262381) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: katlaughing Anyone have any experience with this site builder? wld, thanks, I'll look at sitebuilder...I need something really easy, too.:-) SRS, I may see if I can transfer frontpage from my old PC to the new one, but I wasn't really that happy with it. |
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14 Feb 08 - 01:53 PM (#2262430) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: TheSnail katlaughing I have NOtepad, of course, but how to I see what I have designed, i.e. not the html but the actual design that someone would see when they find my site? You can open a file in a browser just like in any other application. Press ctrl+O and you can then browse you computer for the file you want. As long as it has the .html extension, it will open as a web page. |
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14 Feb 08 - 01:56 PM (#2262432) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: TheSnail P.S. That's how I work. I never use a site building programme but then I am a coding geek. |
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14 Feb 08 - 02:08 PM (#2262450) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: katlaughing Thanks, The Snail. I used to know a tiny bit of html for website building but it was years ago and I lost it 'cause I didn't use it.:-) Now, I find I just want it to be easy and quick! |
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14 Feb 08 - 03:02 PM (#2262492) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: Bill D The acknowleged leader in free programs is Kompozer(formerly called NVu). |
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14 Feb 08 - 03:20 PM (#2262505) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: Stilly River Sage I hand code a lot of what I'm doing, but go back and forth with chunks of code I've worked on in Frontpage. Truth be told, you can "borrow" a lot of code from the source view of any web page you like, as long is it isn't all tied into inaccessable css style sheets. SRS |
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14 Feb 08 - 05:11 PM (#2262583) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: Bill D for what it's worth, I have an unopened, unused copy of FrontPage 2000 on my shelf. If anyone would like it, PM me,,,it's yours for the postage - or some interesting trade in wood or music. |
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15 Feb 08 - 02:55 PM (#2263351) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: Stilly River Sage FrontPage2000 leaves a lot more trash in the page than the 2003 version. You have to spend time reading the code and cleaning it up. Maybe if you install the 2000 one then see if you can get an update to 2003, you'll be as far caught up as you can probably get. SRS |
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15 Feb 08 - 03:41 PM (#2263378) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: Bill D ah..well, I got it in a deal from a MS employee several years ago. I knew then that it was over done, but I thought that if anyone had lost or corrupted a copy.... I use...what little I use anything...the Kompozer I note above. |
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15 Feb 08 - 03:47 PM (#2263382) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: katlaughing Thanks for the link, BillD, I am going to try Kompozer.:-) |
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16 Feb 08 - 08:47 AM (#2263737) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: Mr Red Dreamweaver has a "Word" crap culler and it can spot supidities but version is not averse to putting a few empty tags in of its own. Worth every penny I paid! Or not as the case may be. |
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09 Apr 08 - 01:41 PM (#2311269) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: katlaughing Well, I decided to get my feet wet, today and tried out Kompozer. I like it and can definitely use it instead of trying to go between my old and new PCs using Front Page on the old and transferring, even if I ever did figure out a way to do that.:-) One thing I noticed with Kompozer is when I look at the HTML Source, it assigns a line number to each line which makes it a lot easier to figure out what's going on where in the html.:-) Thanks, BillD, for telling us about it. Great program! |
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09 Apr 08 - 05:31 PM (#2311466) Subject: RE: BS: Examples of good web page design From: Bill D *smile*...always glad when someone finds part of my |