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21 Sep 06 - 10:57 AM (#1840036) Subject: Women Impersonating Men at Sea From: GUEST,Maritime Heritage Network I'm doing some research in preparation for a pilot podcast on maritime music and I'm looking for any recordings of ballads or shanties with the theme of women who go to sea pretending to be men in order to follow lovers or simply to challenge the male order. Songs about heroic women are welcome, too. I'm interested in primarily pre-20th century compositions, but I'd welcome suggestions from later periods. Examples I have so far include "When I was a Young Maid," "The Female Rambling Sailor," "The Fair Maid," "The Handsome Cabin Boy," and "Grace Darling." Any obvious songs I've missed? Any books on the subject you know of? I'd also like to find modern recordings with either traditional or non-traditional arrangements. Your suggestions on this are welcome. Many thanks in advance. Joe Follansbee, Project Manager Maritime Heritage Network info@maritimeheritage.net |
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21 Sep 06 - 11:26 AM (#1840069) Subject: RE: Women Impersonating Men at Sea From: Wolfgang Female smuggler Wolfgang |
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21 Sep 06 - 11:32 AM (#1840073) Subject: RE: Women Impersonating Men at Sea From: Susan of DT Try searching the digital tradition for the keyword "Transvestite". Not all are nautical to be sure, but several of the 30+ hits are. recordings: When I was a Fair Maid All Hands Round, Folk Legacy Sally Rogers, Unclaimed Pint Linda Rice-Johnson, Bird in the Wood Handsome Cabin Boy Gordon Bok, Tuen for November, Folk Legacy AL Lloyd, Blow Boys Blow Lou Killen, Sailors, Ships, & Shanties Female Rambling Sailor Martyn Wyndom Read, Song Links 2 Female Sailor Bold John Kirkpatrick, Song Links 1 Willaim Taylor John Roberts & Tony Barrand, Heart Outbursts Cilla Fisher & Artie Trezise, For Fair Day and Foul Dave Burland, Voices Short jacket & White Trousers Lou Killen, Sailors, Ships, & Shanteys |
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21 Sep 06 - 11:41 AM (#1840085) Subject: RE: Women Impersonating Men at Sea From: Susan of DT More Jackaroe Joan Baez, Ballad Book Pete Seeger, Dangerous Songs Silk Merchant's Daughter Dellie Norton, Far in the Mountains, Vol 4 Sheila Kay Adams, My Dearest Dear |
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21 Sep 06 - 12:11 PM (#1840105) Subject: RE: Women Impersonating Men at Sea From: Dan Schatz The definitive study on these was made by Dianne Dugaw, Warrior Women and Popular Balladry, 1650-1850. Interestingly, some of the more popular variants of this theme with revival singers (ie, "The Handsome Cabin Boy") appear to have been less popular in the tradition - though measurement of this is problematic at best. It would be interesting to know if there are many recordings of some of the more obscure songs Prof. Dugaw deals with. Dan Schatz |
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21 Sep 06 - 12:16 PM (#1840109) Subject: Lyr Add: TARRY TROUSERS (from Frankie Armstrong) From: CeltArctic Frankie Armstrong recorded a ballad called "Tarry Trousers" in which a young girl dreams and fantasizes about joining her love and fighting in battles. TARRY TROUSERS As recorded by Frankie Armstrong on "Lovely on the Water" (1972) As I walked out one midsummer morning The weather being both fine and clear, Who should I hear but a tender mother Talking to her daughter dear. "Daughter I would have you marry And live no longer a single life." But she says, "Mother, I'd rather tarry For me sailor boy so bright." "But daughter, they are given to roaming; Into foreign countries they do go. And then they'll leave you broken-hearted And that will prove your overthrow." "I'll dress myself in sailor's clothing, No foreign dangers will I fear. And when we are in the height of battle, Then I'll protect my Jamie dear." "Hark! How the big guns, they do rattle, And the small guns, they do make their noise-- And when we are in the height of battle I'll cry 'Fight on, me jolly boys!'" "Me mother would have me wed a tailor And rob me of me heart's delight; But give me the lad whose tarry trousers Shine to me like diamonds bright." Moira |
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21 Sep 06 - 01:05 PM (#1840148) Subject: ADD: Fare Thee Well My Dearest Dear From: Saro How about Fare Thee Well My Dearest Dear - lots of people have recorded it including Craig Morgan Robson on "Peppers and Tomatoes". Here are the words: Fare Thee Well My Dearest Dear Fare thee well my dearest dear, fare thee well adieu For I must go to sea for the sake of you Love, have a patient heart, for you must bear the smart Since you and I must part, my turtle dove. You'll have silver and bright gold, houses and land What more can you desire, love? Don't complain. And jewels to your hand and maids at your command But you must think of me when I am gone. Your gold I'll count as dust when that you have fled Your absence proves me lost and strikes me dead And when you are from home, your servants I'll have none I'd rather live alone than in company. And so nimbly then she's dressed all in man's attire For to go to sea was her heart's desire. She cut her lovely hair and no mistrust was there That she a maiden were all at the time. To Venice we were bound with our hearts content, No thought of ship being wrecked, away we went. From London but one day, our ship was cast away Which caused our lives to lay in discontent. Our ship was cast away, misfortune it did frown, For I did swim to shore but she was drowned Now she lies in the deep in everlasting sleep Which causes me to weep for evermore |
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21 Sep 06 - 03:09 PM (#1840228) Subject: RE: Women Impersonating Men at Sea From: Liz the Squeak OOh... thanks, that was a version of Tarry Trowsers that I wasn't aware of... consider it snaffled! LTS |
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21 Sep 06 - 03:36 PM (#1840238) Subject: ADD: William Taylor From: Den William Taylor CD: No. 2 Patrick Street William Taylor was a brisk young sailor Full of heart and full of play Till his mind he did uncover To a youthful lady gay Four and twenty British sailors Met him on the king's highway As he went for to be married Pressed he was and sent away (chorus) Folleri-de-dom, de- daerai diddero Folleri-de-dom, domme daerai dae Folleri-de-dom, de- daerai diddero Folleri-de-dom, domme daerai dae Sailor's clothing she put on And she went on board of a man-o-war Her pretty little fingers long and slender They were smeared with pitch and tar On the ship there was a battle She amongst the rest did fight The wind blew off her silver buttons Breasts were bared all snowy white (chorus) When the captain did discover He said Fair maid, what brought you here? Sir, I'm seeking William Taylor. Pressed he was by you last year. If you rise up in the morning. Early at the break of day. There you'll find young William Taylor Walking with his lady gay. (chorus) She rose early in the morning Early at the break of day There she spied young William Taylor Walking with his lady gay She procured a pair of pistols On the ground where she did stand There she shot bold William Taylor And the lady at his right hand (chorus) |
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21 Sep 06 - 05:40 PM (#1840300) Subject: RE: Women Impersonating Men at Sea From: MartinRyan "Female tars: Women aboard ship in the age of sail" by Suzanne J. Stark, may be worth a look, if you haven't already come across it. Regards |
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21 Sep 06 - 06:14 PM (#1840326) Subject: RE: Women Impersonating Men at Sea From: GUEST,Rev Dianne Dugaw , who wrote the definitive study on this topic (see Dan Schatz above) also recorded a CD of her favorite ballads from this family. It's called Dangerous Examples - Fighting and Sailing Women in Song. It's available for $10 at cdbaby. The tracks are: 1. The Female Sailor Bold 2. Doralee-My-Laddie 3. Susan's Adventures 4. The Larks They Sang Melodious 5. Polly and Jack 6. The Female Warrior 7. The Cruel War 8. Mary Ambree 9. The Female Drummer 10. The Bristol Bridegroom |
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21 Sep 06 - 06:18 PM (#1840329) Subject: RE: Women Impersonating Men at Sea From: GUEST,Rev BTW, Dianne teaches at University of Oregon in Eugene, and is a native of Washington state. I see from the link posted that the Maritime Heritage Network is in Seattle. i'm sure you could get her up there to Seattle for a concert or podcast. She's a very entertaining speaker and performer. Rev |
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21 Sep 06 - 07:39 PM (#1840389) Subject: RE: Women Impersonating Men at Sea From: Ref Try "Canada-I-O" Nic Jones does a great version on his Penguin Eggs album. |
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21 Sep 06 - 07:41 PM (#1840390) Subject: RE: Women Impersonating Men at Sea From: Matt_R ^ That was the first song I though of when I saw this thread |
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21 Sep 06 - 10:43 PM (#1840479) Subject: RE: Women Impersonating Men at Sea From: GUEST,Pelrad "Loos Mina Loos," recorded by Kat yn't Seil/Liereliet is another. It's not in English, but it's very catchy! http://woodenshipsmusic.com/htdocs/at051.html For a modern, ultimate parody of this genre, "For the Love of Her Willy-O" can't be beat. http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=2082 |
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22 Sep 06 - 04:47 AM (#1840617) Subject: RE: Women Impersonating Men at Sea From: GUEST,MoneyPenny There's a lovely song about a "Lady Pirate" which I've heard performed by Leeds-based Duncan McFarlane (He wrote it too.)Not sure if it's on any of his recordings but it's called "Mary Read" and I found the lyrics for it on his website duncanmcfarlane.co.uk - worth checking out - it's a lovely haunting melody and from a slightly different perspective - Duncan gives an explanation of background together with the lyrics on website. May be of interest to you. |
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22 Sep 06 - 07:45 AM (#1840702) Subject: RE: Women Impersonating Men at Sea From: Bat Goddess "William Taylor" has also been recorded by Frankie Armstrong, alas on one of her LPs that hasn't made the migration to CD -- "Out of Love, Hope and Suffering". (The other LPs not available on CD are "And the Music Played So Grand" and "Songs and Ballads". I, for one, would REALLY like them on CD!!!) Linn |
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22 Sep 06 - 07:56 AM (#1840709) Subject: RE: Women Impersonating Men at Sea From: Dave (the ancient mariner) Sailed with a few. I don't think some were doing it on purpose, just came naturally ;-) |
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22 Sep 06 - 08:19 AM (#1840727) Subject: RE: Women Impersonating Men at Sea From: Greg B Not to put too fine a point on it, but I don't believe Grace Darling in fact impersonated a man or ever claimed to be one. |
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22 Sep 06 - 02:10 PM (#1840953) Subject: RE: Women Impersonating Men at Sea From: harpmolly This may be redundant, but the song Pentangle recorded as "I Am A Maid That's Deep In Love" is a fun example of this. Even though the meter seems really weird to me and the song ends kind of abruptly, I still really like it (I based the melody of my "Wiser Maid" song loosely on the melody they use). Cheers, M |
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22 Sep 06 - 05:50 PM (#1841129) Subject: RE: Women Impersonating Men at Sea From: Severn Pelrad, your link doesn't work for me, but is the parody you mention the same as Brian Bedford's "Willy Went To Sea" as recorded by Hillary Spencer on her CD "Afterimage" (Strawberry Music SMSCD02)? If not, then here's another good one. |
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10 Mar 17 - 05:05 PM (#3844153) Subject: RE: Women Impersonating Men at Sea From: JenBurdoo Is "When I Was a Young Maid" a traditional song? I've also heard an army variant of it, by Robin Laing. |
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10 Mar 17 - 11:18 PM (#3844184) Subject: RE: Women Impersonating Men at Sea From: michaelr It's certainly a popular theme in song, but is there any evidence for this sort of thing actually taking place? It's hard to imagine a woman impersonating a male sailor on board and not being found out shortly. |
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11 Mar 17 - 02:50 AM (#3844190) Subject: RE: Women Impersonating Men at Sea From: BobL Not exactly a traditional song, but W.S. Gilbert's "Bab" ballad The Bumboat Woman's Story also comes into this category, as does the ballet "Pineapple Poll" loosely based on it. |
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11 Mar 17 - 03:42 AM (#3844195) Subject: RE: Women Impersonating Men at Sea From: Acorn4 William Taylor - the True Story |
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11 Mar 17 - 04:53 AM (#3844209) Subject: RE: Women Impersonating Men at Sea From: GUEST,henryp Roy Palmer - in The Rambling Soldier - writes; It is possible that The Female Drummer is partly based on incidents in the life of Mary Anne Talbot, whose autobiography appeared in 1809 under the title of Life and surprising adventures of Mary Anne Talbot in the name of John Taylor, related by herself. Her book, if it be hers, may be partly or wholly fictional. In its defence, one can say that there do appear to be reasonable well-authenticated instances of women serving in the army and navy in men's attire. [He then gives some examples, including Hannah Snell of Worcester.] She would have had no shortage of ballads to fit her theme, starting with a group dating from the seventeenth century: The Gallant She-Soldier, The Famous Woman Drummer, The Soldiers Delight, Or the She Volunteer, and The Maiden Warrior (Roxburghe Ballads). The last female warrior - that is, masquerading as a man - I have come across is Dorothy Lawrence, who served with the Royal Engineers during the First World War until she was exposed. |
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11 Mar 17 - 11:44 AM (#3844268) Subject: RE: Women Impersonating Men at Sea From: EBarnacle I believe Dan Milnar, aka Liam's Brother, does a version of William Taylor that carries the song a few verses after the shooting and has a more positive outcome. |
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11 Mar 17 - 02:25 PM (#3844299) Subject: RE: Women Impersonating Men at Sea From: GUEST,Henry Piper of Ottery The famous female Pirate Anne Bonney apparently served in the British Army for several years and got away with it, so it seems to have been a not unknown occurrence,..........Don't know of any songs about her though. |
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12 Mar 17 - 12:41 AM (#3844389) Subject: RE: Women Impersonating Men at Sea From: JenBurdoo There were thousands of occurrences in the American Civil War alone. Molly Bean is known to have served in the 47th North Carolina at Gettysburg but was not at all unique. There was also a Union woman who enlisted, and even disguised herself further as a black man to spy behind Confederate lines - Emma Edmonds. I expect it would be far less likely at sea, there being even less privacy, but not impossible. At least one woman in the Napoleonic Prussian army lasted long enough to be promoted to sergeant before she was wounded and found out. I'm not sure Dorothy Lawrence should count, since she was a journalist, not a soldier. Women can't have actually served beyond the late 1800s as men simply because medical examinations eventually became far more stringent. (Elisha Hunt Rhodes described acting as a doctor's clerk during the enlistment of the 2nd Rhode Island; men simply paraded fully clothed past him and Rhodes quietly signaled the doctor if he recognized an applicant who was unfit. The doctor would then make up an excuse to reject him.) |
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12 Mar 17 - 04:24 AM (#3844409) Subject: RE: Women Impersonating Men at Sea From: GUEST,henryp And the subject of women serving as soldiers and sailors remains topical today. US servicemen from all parts of the military use a message board on an anonymous image hosting website to share nude images of their female counterparts. The Pentagon is making a song and dance about it. |
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12 Mar 17 - 11:56 AM (#3844475) Subject: RE: Women Impersonating Men at Sea From: GUEST,John Moulden My article about a real female sailor from 1835 whose life generated two songs is: "Anne Jane Thornton" (Irish Folk Music Studies, Eigse Ceol Tire vols. 5-6 (1985-2001) (Folk Music Society of Ireland, Dublin). She was repatriated to Ballyshannon in Donegal and there is more to the story. The newspapers report that she was granted a pension of £10 pa by the King, William IV, and was granted the lease of a farm in the vicinity of Donegal Town, some miles to the north of Ballyshannon. Early in 1836 a young man from Ballyshannon whom she had been courting went to visit her in Donegal and found a group of young men dragging her off to church to be married to one of their number who would then control her fortune. The Ballyshannon lad rescued her, they were married the following day and the following year she bore a son, whom she named after the king, William. I searched but, not knowing her married name, have been unable to trace any descendants. |
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12 Mar 17 - 01:14 PM (#3844491) Subject: RE: Women Impersonating Men at Sea From: mayomick The practice of taking women to sea on Royal Navy ships seems to have been quite common , even encouraged at one time by the British authorities : "I am now happily laid up in matrimonial harbour, blest in a wife and several children," wrote one old sailor who had done his time in the Royal Navy, "and my constant prayer to heaven is, that my daughters may never set foot on board of a man-of-war." Dr Linda Grant de Pauw wrote in "Seafaring Women" "One might expect a common sailor to be insensitive to the indignities forced on the poor women of certain seaside towns by the arrangements that were not merely tolerated but actually encouraged by the Royal Navy. But this one was not. "These poor unfortunates are taken to market like cattle," William Robinson, using the pseudonym Jack Nastyface, wrote with feeling in 1836, "and, whilst this system is observed, it cannot with truth be said, that the slave-trade is abolished in England." The lawful wives and daughters of sailors were, in the eyes of officers, virtually indistinguishable from common prostitutes, and when a man-of-war put into port the "needs" of the men were met by bringing females aboard by the boatload." http://www.navyandmarine.org/ondeck/1800seawomen.htm I remember reading somewhere that at the Battle of Trafalgar women comprised an estimated ten percent of the average ships' company – if not its official crew . |
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14 Mar 17 - 01:30 PM (#3844903) Subject: RE: Women Impersonating Men at Sea From: Mysha Hi, Daar was laatst een meisje loos! Bye Mysha |