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BS: Freemasonry

05 Oct 06 - 11:37 PM (#1851703)
Subject: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,A Widow's Son

OK, for the purposes of this post I am not me, for obvious reasons. And of course Freemasonry is hardly very secret any more. And of course it differs in the USA.

However, while the collections for charity and all that sort of stuff are admirable, WTF is the point of the quasi-religious ceremony, the quasi-military marching about, the "Boy's own Paper" mysticism, the half-arsed symbolism, and the transparently imaginary historical mumbo-jumbo, not to mention the "Little Boys' Club, no girlies allowed" nonsense?

Does anyone really believe that there is a secret inner cabal that wields true power, when the big cheese in the UK is that buffoon Prince Michael of Kent? Most lodges seem to be full of taxi-drivers, the odd builder, plumbers and double-glazing salesmen, the occasional slum landlord, plus civil servants and failed teachers (hell, there's a concept).   

Does anyone really believe that it opens up vistas of secret opportunity for profit (I wish)?

05 Oct 06 - 11:46 PM (#1851709)
Subject: RE: BS: Freeemasonry
From: GUEST,Hon. Mrs Elizabeth Aldsworth

Not at all. Beleive me. I know.

06 Oct 06 - 12:12 AM (#1851711)
Subject: RE: BS: Freeemasonry
From: Richard Bridge

Interesting set of questions.

Cryptic.....

Not at all what?

06 Oct 06 - 12:46 AM (#1851717)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Joe Offer

I'm Catholic, and I know all about the historical and theological reasons why Catholics aren't supposed to joing the Freemasons - but to me, it looks like Freemasons are people out to have a good time, enjoy each other's company, and do something good for their community. The rituals and pageantry just add to their enjoyment and appreciation of their organization and its history. Oh, I suppose that Freemasons espouse some moral values - but from what I've seen, those values seem to be pretty good ones.

I'm sure there are flaky elements within Freemasonry - but I think that Freemasons, like most people, are just good folks.

I think the same can be said for Moslems, born-again Christians, and even Republicans - and it's probably about what I have to say in answer to the Children and religion thread.
-Joe-

06 Oct 06 - 03:50 AM (#1851759)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: John MacKenzie

Hey, at least they don't go round flaunting it, and saying I'm one and you're not! Unlike the members of some elective clubs, like parliament or congress.
Giok

06 Oct 06 - 03:58 AM (#1851763)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,Boab

Enough help for today, Widow's Son??

06 Oct 06 - 04:30 AM (#1851784)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Folkiedave

it looks like Freemasons are people out to have a good time, enjoy each other's company, and do something good for their community. The rituals and pageantry just add to their enjoyment and appreciation of their organization and its history. Oh, I suppose that Freemasons espouse some moral values - but from what I've seen, those values seem to be pretty good ones.

Bit like Morris dancers really.

06 Oct 06 - 04:32 AM (#1851786)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Alan Day

I am off to a meeting this evening "Widows Son" ,see a lot of good friends,play some music and enjoy the tradition.
I shall not rise to your bait and whilst you sit at home planning your next attack I shall be enjoying myself.
Al

06 Oct 06 - 04:36 AM (#1851790)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Crystal

Apparently there ARE women only lodges of the Masons!

06 Oct 06 - 06:08 AM (#1851827)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,Shimrod

A friend showed me round a Freemason's lodge the other day. It was a grand building in a Northern UK city. I was struck by how old fashioned it seemed - there was an air of faded grandeur about it - a feeling that this had once been an important and influential place, but no longer. Plaques on the walls commerated the fallen in the Great Wars of the Twentieth Century and forgotten aristocrats and notables.

I'm sure many of these people were fine, brave people who did great works - and some of them may have been dubious characters who did dodgy deals. Nevertheless, I can't help thinking that the days when Freemasons were a force in the land are over.

06 Oct 06 - 06:17 AM (#1851833)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: John MacKenzie

Well the only response I can make to that Shimrod, is to say that apparently the largest occupational group within the membership of Freemasonry is policemen!
Giok

06 Oct 06 - 06:44 AM (#1851845)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Paul Burke

I disagree with Freemasonry, but let's shake on it.

06 Oct 06 - 06:52 AM (#1851849)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: John MacKenzie

Why are you pressing my knuckle in that suggestive way Paul?
G.

06 Oct 06 - 06:53 AM (#1851850)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: catspaw49

Would you feel better if they charged? I mean what do you want Paul? It's FREE!





I'll be leaving now........

Spaw

06 Oct 06 - 07:22 AM (#1851861)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: katlaughing

Crystal, what is your source on that? As far as I know the Eastern Star is the women's equivalent.

Oh well, *ho hum* another troll started thread...and, we've already Been Here Before.

06 Oct 06 - 08:21 AM (#1851908)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: John MacKenzie

That will all end soon when we go over to members only posting ☺
G.[hopefully]

06 Oct 06 - 08:41 AM (#1851920)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,Shimrod

Just goes to prove my point, 'John 'Giok'' - most policemen, these days, couldn't catch a cold in a common cold ward!

06 Oct 06 - 09:50 AM (#1851962)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,Davetnova

Jim O'Kane was a mason
A square dealing man
He was aye on the level
Wi' a shake o' his haun

Wi his feet at right angles
He thought he'd go far
nonchalantly gein signals
As he stood at the bar

And who is yer grannie
He signalled tae me
As he rolled up his troosers
Tae expose his left knee

He wis good at folk singin
He preferred it tae jazz
An' his favorite singer
Wis ca'd Joan Boaz

But it's cost him a fortune
For his secret delights
So he told me last Tuesday
That he's joining the Knights

Of Saint Columba

(I think it's Matt McGinn, could be wrong)

06 Oct 06 - 09:51 AM (#1851963)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Crystal

I forget Kat, it was in the Times I think (although should we trust them?). I'm sure a search will turn it up.

06 Oct 06 - 09:51 AM (#1851966)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: The Shambles

Bit like Morris dancers really.

Only they dress even siller than Morris dancers and know even less about why they are dressed up so.

06 Oct 06 - 10:15 AM (#1851983)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Peace

The thing most secret societies have in common is funny hats. Strange, that.

06 Oct 06 - 10:17 AM (#1851986)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Wesley S

I worry about the kids in Masonic homes. Those Masonic morals are rammed down their throats almost as soon as they can speak - these poor kids are brainwashed from an early age. I respect that children should be brought up to respect good and evil,but why should they not have a chance to choose or not to choose their own views when they are older and more fully understand the choices available to them.

06 Oct 06 - 10:17 AM (#1851987)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: The Shambles

And a quick desire to get all the ceromony over and rush to the bar.

06 Oct 06 - 10:21 AM (#1851988)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: katlaughing

LOL, Wesley...ah, the horrors of DeMolay and Job's Daughters! Why, look at what happened to me!

06 Oct 06 - 10:29 AM (#1851995)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: The Shambles

You may indeed have a point Wesley.

06 Oct 06 - 10:32 AM (#1851998)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Midchuck

A friend showed me round a Freemason's lodge the other day. It was a grand building in a Northern UK city. I was struck by how old fashioned it seemed - there was an air of faded grandeur about it - a feeling that this had once been an important and influential place, but no longer. Plaques on the walls commerated the fallen in the Great Wars of the Twentieth Century and forgotten aristocrats and notables.

Shimrod, our group played a gig at a Masonic lodge, in New England, USA, last year, and that was exactly the impression I got. You stated it very well.

There was one plaque relating the Masons to the Knights Templar, who I thought were wiped out by Phillip of France on 10/13/1307 (the original Friday the 13th). Strange.

Peter

06 Oct 06 - 10:36 AM (#1851999)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Big Mick

Point well taken, Wes. This evil behaviour of parents forcing this on their children at such an early age before they have a chance to choose. Unconscionable. I say ban this, all religious teaching, all scout troops, and the disgraceful business of parents encouraging and forcing their kids to play all manner of sports. They should not be forced to do these things. We should wait until they are of an age to make their own choices. And folk music as well. These children should not have to endure this exposure to traditional arts and music. Have you seen these family bands? Obviously just a shill for the parents to make money and live vicariously through their children. What if these kids grow up and don't want to have anything to do with music? They will have been so brainwashed that the poor little drones will have no chance of escaping this evil.

It seems to me that all this teaching of moral values, love of sport, love of music, ethical thinking, participation in things like Daughters of Job and the various young peoples groups, is nothing more than an attempt by bad parents to spread Pandora's sins to the world. I think we should all support taking the children away from parents immediately upon birth and raising them in the proper environment, away from these evil influences, in order to make the world a much nicer place.

Mick

06 Oct 06 - 10:40 AM (#1852000)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: katlaughing

In something like an "orphanage," eh, Mick?**bg**

Peter, in our town, they tore down the beautiful old building where I was a "Jobie" and built a thoroughly modern building which sees much use. In fact, the Masons here encourage folk music, too! Oh, my...we actully went to a folk dance FAMILY night there! Talk about indoctrination...there were babes in arms, toddlers, young children, teens dancing and even young-uns in the Celtic band which played. It was eye-opening!

06 Oct 06 - 10:45 AM (#1852003)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: John MacKenzie

It must have been a band from the North ☺
G.

06 Oct 06 - 10:50 AM (#1852009)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Paul from Hull

Hmmm I dunno, are you a Troll, 'Widder's Son', or are you 'on the square'?

I don't know much about the Masons, or the 'good works' versus 'stupid bunkum' stuff, but I HOPE the days of Criminals in the Dock making secret signs to the Judge, are all over. (Have to say, its difficult to think of them without inwardly giggling now, since that Simpsons episode about the 'Stonecutters'....)

Whatever happened to 'The Grand Order of Water Buffaloes'?

(yep, they did exist, & there was a cartoon piss-take of them too, on the Flintstones...who remembers THAT episode?)

06 Oct 06 - 10:57 AM (#1852012)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: pdq

One of the highest-ranking Masons in the US was Gere Autry at 33rd degree. Other top members include talk show host Art Bell and folksinger Burl Ives. Some you might not expect were heavyweight boxing champ Jack Johnson and Pop singer Nat "King" Cole. This group does not appear to be either dangerous and exclusive folks as some people claim.

06 Oct 06 - 10:58 AM (#1852015)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: The Shambles

(yep, they did exist, & there was a cartoon piss-take of them too, on the Flintstones...who remembers THAT episode?)

I do and I am sure the Grand Pooh Bah does.

06 Oct 06 - 11:08 AM (#1852021)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Georgiansilver

http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/

06 Oct 06 - 11:34 AM (#1852037)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: PoppaGator

Before there was a Fred Flintstone or a Homer Simpson, Jackie Gleason's "Honeymooners" character Ralph Kramden was a member of the Loyal Order of Racoons. Their secret signal was a wagging of the tail of their coonskin caps.

06 Oct 06 - 11:43 AM (#1852044)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,3 5s are 15

I think you'll find that this particular Widow's Son may well be on the square (and indeed a Lewis) but disillusioned. There does not seem to be much here for him, that is in any degree serious, one way or the other.

06 Oct 06 - 11:58 AM (#1852053)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Alan Day

Thanks for a good laugh Wesley.
Not as bad as you think though
Al

06 Oct 06 - 12:21 PM (#1852063)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: 282RA

I've heard that women can be Masons in France. They cannot be in the US. The OES is NOT Masonic.

06 Oct 06 - 01:13 PM (#1852114)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Michael

Do you mean 'The Royal Antedeluvian Order of Buffaloes' (RAOB) Paul?
They still exist in UK. Plenty of pub function rooms have the scrolls and buffaloe horns on the walls. I used to know an old gentleman who was a member, his description 'Though we're not supposed to put it this way' was 'workingmans masons'
Mike.

06 Oct 06 - 03:28 PM (#1852205)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,Son of a dead Brother

This is a reply to A Widow's Son-

My dear old Dad was a 33rd degree Mason. In his final years he would hint broadly it was a path that was available to me, but only if I asked - a strict non-recruitment policy. What I think it would have meant for him was mainly that I would have been a part of a community of a sort; something which for him had been a difficult thing to achieve in life.

He had retired in Florida in the early Eighties. He found a group of like-minded men who were all from the corporate culture, mostly middle and upper management types, at or near retirement age, who liked the structure and purpose provided by regular meetings and local projects. There was an small "Araby"-themed Temple, with onion domes at the corners, where the Shriners would meet. I don't know the significance of the "Arabian" theme. These days all of that is viewed differently, no doubt, but at the time it seemed to be a way of exoticising the presentation, based on some historical aspect of ther Order.

There were a number of fund-raising events that they put on, to raise money for various local needs. The presence of the Shrine at local parades, with their funny little cars, marching band, and quasi-Arabian get-ups, was something I saw first hand a few times. Dad channeled his thwarted musical aspirations into learning to play a reeded horn in the Shrine Band, and eventually became a director of the band. Shrines would compete with one another in band contests, and also for their service accomplishments. Wives had an auxiliary function, and their own organization within the Shrine. Very old-school, sure; it was a boy's club without question.   

There was an underlying spiritual agreement about God as the master engineer, and beyond that were the "teachings" - histories of the Masonic Order through the ages, to some extent. There were ideals of the equalities of all religions and races in what they believed. Dad told me this much about it; that part was important to him. My impression though was that there was no real system to it all, no esoteric pattern to discern.

My sense of the secret stuff was that there was a lot to memorise, and that the Path of it had to do with an earnest desire to perfect one's self through the service orientation and through one's regard for the Fraternal Order and one's Brother Masons. Dad stressed that a Mason was never destitute if there were Brothers around, and that there was indeed a world-wide netwrork. There was also the aspect of advantage conferred by being a Mason; Masons would do each other favors, and I have no doubt that there are some interesting historical examples of the ways that Masons would "take care" of their own; but I began this post as a positive bit of information, without the conspiracy angles.

I was always interested in the fact of there being a Black Masonic Order, which seems to run parallel to the largely white organisation Dad belonged to. Working as a picture framer, I once framed a wonderful old poster for a black Mason, of a stairway-to-the-heavens depiction of Life's Pathway - very much in the self-improvement model that Dad had described. There was an implicit segregation; Dad knew very little about the Black Masons. (Perhaps Azizi or another member has some history to share.)

I have no doubt that there are nefarious threads to trace in the Masonic history, the secret brotherhood stuff of urban legend - that Presidents and such are all Masons - but that's not where I'm going here. I saw what the organisation did for my Dad, who had struggled in his life to find some sort of meaningful, spiritually-based connection to the world.

Dad confided that in his years as a deacon in the church, he had been a hypocrite, not believing the content of the teachings, and that even within the Masonic Order, there were things he didn't quite follow. But he found something there in the service aspect, and in the milieu community of similar aging men. On a certain level, too, there was a poignant aspect to these old guys walking in parades with their scimitars, colorful sheik-of-Araby garb and a curious self-effacement - a kind of cartoonish last hurrah for potency in the world.

My view is that there is a "teaching", but that it's an anachronistic core to something that gets realised in the practice of being part of something that has a history and a current purpose. The same reason why some folks find the church religions meaningful, or put Raider Nation decals on the rear windows of their cars. But again, I looked for indications of a coherent, esoteric teaching, and found none.

06 Oct 06 - 04:28 PM (#1852241)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Q (Frank Staplin)

All of the American presidents from George Washington through Harry Truman were Freemasons. That surely needs to be held against them! Don't know about the bushbabies.

There already are other threads full of this stuff.

06 Oct 06 - 06:40 PM (#1852342)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Alan Day

Wesley and Big Mick I did not have time to properly answer you earlier but both of my sons have not followed me into Masonary,if they asked me I would be pleased to organise it but they have not.They know nothing of Masonary and it something they have never wished to discuss,they have been invited to a couple of Ladies nights
(A meal and dance )and that is the only contact they have made with members of the Lodge I attend.I am giving them the chance to decide.
They have complained more about my concertina practicing and that is probably why they both do not play an instrument.
Are you the person Widows Son that belonged to a Lodge in Sussex?
If you are it is time to move on and put your hatred to one side.
Al

06 Oct 06 - 06:57 PM (#1852351)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Big Mick

Alan, thanks for the explanation, but it wasn't necessary. Those were tongue in cheek comments based on another thread.

All the best,

Mick

06 Oct 06 - 07:19 PM (#1852366)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,thurg

Re: black masons. There is a brief bit in the movie "Rosewood" in which a black man who is escaping the general slaughter compels a white man to help him, on the basis of their shared Masonhood. Don't know if it's based on an actual incident or not.

06 Oct 06 - 07:40 PM (#1852376)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: BuckMulligan

There is - or was, I'm a bit out of touch - an organization known as "Prince Hall masonry" (named after a man named Prince Hall, I think) which served black members. I have no idea whether there was a formal affiliation with either of the "official" rites (York and Scottish) and/or AF&AM. When I had anything to do with Masons (the 60s) they were not integrated. The "affiliate" organizations like OES and DeMolay and Rainbow Girls claim not to be "junior masonic organizations" but the fact that in order to organize a chapter of DeMolay you need an advisory board of adults ("Dads") who MUST be masons (when I was Master Councillor of my chapter, my own Dad, who had been a DeMolay but was not a mason, was not allowed on the advisory council) pretty much gives the lie to that claim of "non-junior mason" status.

06 Oct 06 - 07:59 PM (#1852388)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,Wesley S

My tongue was only slightly in my cheek Mick. Alan - I was trying to make a comparison between your post about the ill effects of religion on children and the fact that there are many people - and I'm NOT one of them - that consider Masons to be nothing more than a cult - or worse. Many of the same things that you have said about organized religions have also been said about Masons. So how about a little tolerance please?

06 Oct 06 - 10:55 PM (#1852467)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST

The power of Freemasonry lies in its ability to neutralize good people who might otherwise become opponents. 99.9% of masons think they're just part of a do-good group, and in exchange for their efforts they're given a little leg-up here and there as they go through life. Honestly, that's how they view it. And they do indeed DO good deeds. Charity and so on.

But then there's that .1%. I mean...basics. How many degrees in a circle? 360. How many degrees in masonry? 33? Come on. That's just the first slice of the pie. 12 wedges of pie, to mock the 12 Disciples of Christ. Lots of numerology in masonry. And it all stems from the twin pillars of the Temple of Solomon. Two pillars, like an 11 in appearance. Like the twin towers in NYC. Those things were built to be destroyed in a blood sacrifice. A giant eleven looming over the NYC skyline for decades. So sick.

Anyway, 999 out of 1000 masons just live out their lives doing 'good deeds,' but that 1 out of a thousand advances upward degree by degree. Last I read, King Juan Carlos of Spain was at 246, but that was a couple of years ago. The final degree is "The Architect," Lucifer. The goal of Luciferianism and masonry is to get closer to Lucifer.

And you don't need to believe in the mystical aspects of masonry to acknowledge the existence of those aspects. OTHER people believe in them, and that's the important thing. Go through one of GWBush's speeches about war and search for the word "sacrifice." He uses it a lot. He's a Luciferian, probably a mason, and all his killing is done as a sacrifice to Lucifer. And he didn't invent the practice. Look at the war memorials all over the western world...the word "sacrifice" carved in stone for us over and over and over. Rubbing our faces in it down through the generations. And the politicians' talk about "responsibility,"...that's a masonic thing. The upper level masons aren't talking about taking responsibility in the "sober, well-behaved citizen" sense of the word, they're acknowledging their evil deeds. It's kind of like the way American Indians used to go into battle to count coup. They'd get close to an enemy and just touch him, then later they'd tally up how many they COULD have killed. That's what Bush and Blair mean when they're talking about "responsibility." They're committing blood sacrifices and atrocities left and right, then they ADMIT they are "sacrificing" humans while they talk about "taking responsibility". Blatant admissions of supreme wickedness, spoken straight into camera. But by now we've been so immersed in masonry and Luciferianism that we don't even twitch now when they hit us over the head with it. And that freakin' pyramid on the dollar bill...

Harry Truman was a "33rd degree" mason. 33 is just the point at which the public loses sight of your masonic career. No telling what rank he really achieved. All I know is he could've bombed any two points in Japan...military or civilian...but he chose two civilian targets, and they just happened to be the cities with the largest Christian populations. Lucifer hates Christians.

06 Oct 06 - 11:06 PM (#1852473)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Little Hawk

I figured you'd be here, "Guest". Interesting stuff. I have a question for you. Are you doing much reading these days at Infowars.com (site run by Alex Jones in Texas)?

I'm asking this with no ulterior motive. I'd just like to know if you're familiar with that site and if so, what you think of it?

I am also of the opinion that most masons are harmless and well-intentioned people, but the few at the top are anything but harmless...and they are among the richest and most powerful people on this planet.

If the people at the top in the present administration hate Christians, as you say, would it not be tremendously ironical that they are encouraging and using the most primitive forms of reactionary Christianity to strengthen and secure their position of power?

It wouldn't be the first time that sort of thing has been done, would it? You use some of the sheep (those most easily controlled and manipulated) to imprison and kill the other sheep for you.

Or as Boss Tweed said in the movie "Gangs of New York"..."You can always use one half of the poor to kill the other half for you."

06 Oct 06 - 11:09 PM (#1852474)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,282RA

Prince Hall was an 18th century black man in the colonies who was indoctrinated into a British lodge, I believe. He later founded a lodge of his own in the colonies. For awhile, his lodge was one of the few, if not the only one, open to black men. Today, from what I understand, there are more black Masons in the standard lodges than in Prince Hall, which I believe still exists. I don't think Prince Hall masonry is considered irregular although it might be.

06 Oct 06 - 11:16 PM (#1852475)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Little Hawk

Hmmm. I wonder if Colin Powell is a mason...

06 Oct 06 - 11:37 PM (#1852482)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST

Why, look at what happened to me!



Lesbian?

06 Oct 06 - 11:41 PM (#1852485)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Little Hawk

I think you're maybe on the wrong thread.

07 Oct 06 - 03:42 AM (#1852530)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: The Shambles

Do Freemasons allow guests?

Or is it members only?

07 Oct 06 - 04:31 AM (#1852543)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: John MacKenzie

Guests are allowed, but if they don't behave themselves they get thrown out; permanently!
G.

07 Oct 06 - 04:35 AM (#1852544)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,Kerux

Often when people see something they don't understand, they have to draw on their imagination to create some idea of what it might be. This can be illuminating - in the case of Masonry, mose people seem to think no further that the stereotypical fast buck / secret network idea. They believe that, because that's as far as their own imagination can envisage a purpose for such an organisation, that's what it must be.

My own experience has been that membership English Craft Freemasonry opened intellectual and spiritual doors which I would not otherwise have had the opportunity to pass through.   

I can't blame anyone for being suspicious of the Craft, but I can't see how it could ever satisfy the curiosity or assuage the hatred of non-Masons without destroying its essential characteristics.

I joined Masonry because I was curious about it, and my curiosity was rewarded by a transformation of my life. I would commend the same course to anyone (male or female - yes, the latter is possible, but not through United Grand Lodge) who has the balls (physically or metaphorically) to take up the challenge and join. You can always leave if you don't like what you find.

07 Oct 06 - 04:53 AM (#1852550)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: akenaton

I suppose circumstances differ in other countries regarding Freemasonry.
Here in the West of Scotland, "The Masons" are strongly linked to the Orange Order an organisation which is dedicated to to spread of religious hatred.
Many members are also Orangemen, and alarmingly it appears to be young men who are becoming involved, people who if they had one ounce of intelligence should be viewing quasi-religious organisation like the Masons with derision.

This thread does link to the Chidren and religion thread, but not in the way some people here seem to think.
In Scotland, it is simply another example of religion used to manipulate the feeble minded....Ake

07 Oct 06 - 05:07 AM (#1852554)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: akenaton

Regarding the bullshit being posted here about "The Craft"

Modern Freemasonry has no link to the craft of masonry.
Not one of the idiots who belong to the local branch of the Masons would know a bolster from a knapping hammer.
Freemasonry is simply a social club for religious bigots.

As I have posted elswhere, I am the only time served mason in our area and have never been invited to join the Freemasons.
I see this as something to be proud of.

"I've never been proposed as a mason...so I can't be that bad"
Ake

07 Oct 06 - 05:27 AM (#1852570)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: eddie1

Ake
A few points there.
I joined a masonic lodge in the West of Scotland. They would have nothing to do with the Orange Lodge and anyone involved with it who appeared at our lodge would very soon realise that.
Nobody claims that modern Freemasonry has anything to do with stonemasons.
You, along with everyone else, won't be invited to join a lodge. You have to take the initiative. You then find a proposer and seconder - might be difficult.
You talk about bigots?

Eddie

07 Oct 06 - 05:35 AM (#1852574)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: The Shambles

Guests are allowed, but if they don't behave themselves they get thrown out; permanently!

And by the same token - members presumably do not have to fear being thrown out - no matter how badly they behave or no matter how poor an example they set?

07 Oct 06 - 05:37 AM (#1852575)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: akenaton

You are simply wrong Eddie.
I know of at least a dozen young Masons who are also members of the orange order.
Young men in my area have been regularly approached informally by older Masons to allow proposal.
Most of the people I grew up with were "propositioned"

Bigotted against Masons??...........That dosen't make sense.
Ake

07 Oct 06 - 05:42 AM (#1852578)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: The Shambles

The In Crowd!

I'm in with the in crowd;
I go where the in crowd goes.
I'm in with the in crowd;
And I know what the in crowd knows.
Any time of the year, don't you hear?
Dressin? fine; makin? time.
We breeze up and down the street;
We get respect from the people we meet.
They make way day or night;
They know the in crowd is out of sight.

I'm in with the in crowd;
I know every latest dance.
When you'e in with the in crowd,
It's so easy to find romance!
Any time of the year, don't you hear?
If it's square, we ain't there.
We make every minute count;
Our share is always the biggest amount.
Other guys imitate us, but the original is still the greatest.
In crowd!
In crowd!

If it is square - perhaps we ARE there?

07 Oct 06 - 05:54 AM (#1852581)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: John MacKenzie

You already posted that in another thread Roger, where it was also greeted with 100% apathy.

07 Oct 06 - 06:16 AM (#1852585)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: eddie1

Ake
I referred to my lodge. I don't pretend to know about all the others.
If young men are being "propositioned" then that is wrong. That's going against one of the basic principles.
"As I have posted elswhere, I am the only time served mason in our area and have never been invited to join the Freemasons.
I see this as something to be proud of."

You seem very keen to criticise as someone who is proud to have been ignored? If this recruitment is so widespread in your area then how come?

Eddie

07 Oct 06 - 06:47 AM (#1852602)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: The Shambles

Young men in my area have been regularly approached informally by older Masons to allow proposal.
Most of the people I grew up with were "propositioned"

Yes when I was living in Scotland - even I was "propositioned" to join the local lodge. It was made by The Serial Bully.

07 Oct 06 - 07:17 AM (#1852629)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,Kerux

Ake

Reading your post I can almost hear George Orwell's sheep: "Four legs good, two legs bad".

Your words reflect the truth that there are different types in all callings - Freemasonry and stonemasonry alike.

Kerux

07 Oct 06 - 03:01 PM (#1852874)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: gnu

I was asked to join the Masons. I was asked to join the Knights. I could have been a double agent. Intriguing.

07 Oct 06 - 03:06 PM (#1852876)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: John MacKenzie

You're above the Mason Dixon line, so you're exempt.

07 Oct 06 - 03:17 PM (#1852883)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: The Shambles

Reading your post I can almost hear George Orwell's sheep: "Four legs good, two legs bad".

Or is - all animals are equal - but those with one trouser leg rolled-up - tend to think they will get a more equal share than others?

07 Oct 06 - 03:30 PM (#1852887)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: fat B****rd

According to Wolfe and Lornell Leadbell was a 33rd degree Mason (a New York lodge) and buried "shoeless, wearing his Masonic apron". Just thought I'd mention that.

07 Oct 06 - 05:57 PM (#1852978)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Alan Day

I have been over forty years a mason,during that time I have never been given a favour or seen one given.My son does more business transactions in his pub than I have seen in lodges.I enjoy the tradition in the same way that I enjoy Folk Tradition.A great deal of money is raised for charity many Hospices relying on Freemasons support.Part of the ritual is that if you meet a Brother Mason in a distressed situation you try to help.I know Masons who are in Grand Lodge, there is nothing sinister connected to their work,they work for no financial gain and are involved with raising money for charities and it's distribution.
In the Temple Headquarters is Nelson's Regalia a hero for this country there are many other names who have shaped our lives.
I admit that in every organisation there can be bad blood,this cannot be denied,but they are rare in amongst the thousands Worldwide who are members.The good work that is done by Masons is now being published and the reason is that so many people are totaly ignorant of what Masonary is about.These people make statements which are totally untrue backed by no evidence,think it is a good game to have a go at Masonary.If you wish to know a bit more about Masonary there are people who will give you the information.
Al

07 Oct 06 - 06:20 PM (#1852987)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: The Shambles

Part of the ritual is that if you meet a Brother Mason in a distressed situation you try to help

And you meet a non-Brother Mason in the same state are you encouraged to just give them a sly kick? I suspect not - so why make the distinction at all?

Alan I mean no offence to you, but surely folk can do equally good work without the secrecy, exclusion and ritual and as many organisations do manage to do this - is there really a future for adults indulging in things like wearing aprons, having funny handshakes and secret signals?

07 Oct 06 - 06:36 PM (#1852999)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Bill Hahn//\\

Before there was a Fred Flintstone or a Homer Simpson, Jackie Gleason's "Honeymooners" character Ralph Kramden was a member of the Loyal Order of Racoons. Their secret signal was a wagging of the tail of their coonskin caps.

   And let us never forget The Kingfish and The Mystic Knights of The Sea ---and their lodge hall. Brilliant stuff that, unfortunately, was good humor that we are supposed to believe was terribly stereotypical--as was The Goldbergs.   In fact a humorous presentation of some great characters---and depicting the good and the sleazy. To me The Jeffersons were truly offensive ---and stupid.

    I leave you with this thought---Holy mackeral Brother Andy---I just cut myself and my blood is not congratulating--best call Lawyer Calhoun to see who we can sue---Amos can drive us over in his Fresh Air Taxi. Best do it before Sahhire finds out about my latest scheme.


Bill Hahn

07 Oct 06 - 10:00 PM (#1853107)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: katlaughing

I have seen a Masonic Lodge charter, in Northampton, Massachusetts, which was signed by LaFayette, yes, the very one of our Revolutionary War. For a little bit more about Job's Daughters, which IS related to Freemasonry:

Job's Daughters is an organization of young women between the ages of 10 and 20 who are related to a Master Mason, and share a common bond. We have members in the United States, Canada, Australia, Brazil, and the Philippines We have fun together at activities such as swimming parties, dances, family picnics, slumber parties, miniature golf, marching in parades, travel . . . well, you get the picture. By working closely together, you will make new friends that will last a lifetime. We also help others. Throughout the year, we perform service projects to help our community, the less fortunate, and other charities. We actively support the Hearing Impaired Kids Endowment (HIKE) Fund, which purchases hearing assistive devices for hearing impaired children. We learn leadership. By holding various offices in Job's Daughters, you will gain valuable leadership experience, be a part of a team, and learn democratic principles. Job's Daughters can qualify for various scholarships that are offered on a state-wide and a national level. All Job's Daughters are members of a local chapter called a Bethel. Members of a Bethel elect their own officers, decide their own activities, and plan their own events. In short, Job's Daughters International offers the qualities that today's young women want and need from organizations that earn their commitment . . . fun, friendship, helping others, and the chance to learn organizational and leadership skills.

07 Oct 06 - 10:00 PM (#1853108)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST

Howdy Little Hawk,

Yeah, I look at the infowars.com headlines and read here and there on the site. I think Jones has indeed figured things out, as far as things are knowable, when it comes to geopolitics. He knows who runs things and who benefits from phony terrorism, etc. And I imagine I credit the masons with more of the world's problems than he probably would. But, the masons were the first (and are the longest-lasting) "guild" or union...many centuries to solidify their power. They're up there with the Jesuits and the European roalty bloc when it comes to running the world. And none of those groups means ME any good, I know that.

As far as powerful and destructive groups, it seems all the groups in the U.S. that could be a potential threat to the govt have now been co-opted. Witness the federal govt itself. In order to begin the transformation to fascism, the top two positions were first secured (Pres / Vice-Pres). Then the legislative and judiciary were gradually taken over through thuggery and greed. That's the way it has gone with almost all groups in America...just nail down the top position then move on to the next group. The National Rifle Association has millions of members (dedicated to gun rights), but the man at the top is dedicated to taking away the group's guns. And the members refuse to face the fact. Incredible. Same with churches, education...pick an area of life. The heads of the groups are corrupt. Easiest and quickest way to get control of the group is to get the leader under your control.

Anyway...Christianity. Bush isn't Christian. Look at Mark Foley...head of all those "child protection" programs and committees when he's a pedophile. All of congress covered up his secret, the media covered it up...it is SO easy to deceive when the media has been co-opted (top person at each organization bought off by the govt), it's so easy to misrepresent yourself. Bush could claim to be a Buddhist and get away with it. But in fact he's a Luciferian. And yes he's using well-meaning Christians to strengthen his position of power. Americans are trusting, mostly, and they believe television. Which tells them the Bushes are Christian.

Alex Jones is still the best patriotic voice around when it comes to vigor and enthusiasm (you folks should go to infowars.com and click on their feed. Jones broadcasts 3 hours a day, then they loop it until the next day). But I'm online right now so I can listen to Webster Tarpley. He refers to the Anglo-Israeli financial group as the root of the world's problems, and it's hard to find fault with his assertions. The Anglo-Israeli group takes in the queen and her extended family of European Nazis, the world's largest banks (Zurich, Manhattan, Rothschild areas), and the American traitors like the Rockefellers and Bushes. Tarpley is light years ahead of us yokels in TX. He speaks Latin and we can barely speak English. One of the more insightful analysts I've come across in a while.

http://www.rbnlive.com/listen.html

You need speakers and a soundcard on the computer. I think he broadcasts on Saturdays, then they re-broadcast 9p.m. central time Sunday (5 minutes from now). Two-hour program.

Amarillo Slim said something like...You can shear a sheep many a time, but you can skin it only once.

07 Oct 06 - 10:55 PM (#1853118)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Paul from Hull

Michael,

I have to somewhat shamefacedly admit that only while googling around after posting that did I discover that is what R.A.O.B. meant....

I certainly should have known better, as my maternal Grandad was one at one time, it seems, though certainly not actively so. He had a Membership Scroll (which we found after his death) but my Mum didnt remember any real mention being made of it, though recalled that he had been one.

08 Oct 06 - 03:35 AM (#1853154)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: The Shambles

By working closely together, you will make new friends that will last a lifetime.

Nothing wrong with making life-long friends - but I simply do not understand ways that purport to do this - that exclude most of the population.

Job's Daughters is an organization of young women between the ages of 10 and 20 who are related to a Master Mason, and share a common bond.

Many women may share a common bond - but many of these would be unaware that any of their relatives were Master Masons (or care very much if they did).

08 Oct 06 - 05:00 AM (#1853176)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,Kerux

I never enjoyed (or looked for) any material gain from Masonry. Had I wished for such things I would have joined a political party, a golf club or the Rotary Club. I doubt that even that would have done the trick, but I suspect that many members of such organisations originally joined in that very hope.

I'm sad that so many people are prepared to take such rigid positions on a subject of which they have no personal experience - except perhaps second hand through broadcast propaganda or published nonsense - when they are free to enter and explore for themselves.

Are they afraid to live their lives at first hand? I suppose it's safer and easier to sit around in this virtual world and limit one's exposure to scary reality. I'm tired of listening to the ranting of bedroom warriors. Please, get yourselves a life.

         Fin

08 Oct 06 - 01:44 PM (#1853359)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: The Shambles

I'm sad that so many people are prepared to take such rigid positions on a subject of which they have no personal experience - except perhaps second hand through broadcast propaganda or published nonsense - when they are free to enter and explore for themselves.

Not everyone would wish to enter and explore and those that do wish to explore but get 'black-balled' are not free to enter.

If there are rigid positions taken based on little real information - I am not sure if the blame can entirely be placed on those that express such views.

If every aspect of Masonry were open to public view - some people would not assume the worst. When things are done in secret - the sensible assumption to make is that there is some good reason for this secrecy and exclusion. If there is not - then why does it exist?

Despite this - I feel that a lot of this is well-intentioned. However, I have a feeling that all such 'groups' that are historically seen to care for 'their own' in distress (like a church or religion) - just cause other exclusive 'groups' to be set up to care for those in distress who are excluded from the others.

08 Oct 06 - 02:21 PM (#1853388)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Richard Bridge

Hmm, lot of absence of information here.

Guest, you are doing a wonderful recruiting job for the masons...

Me, yes, I've been approached, more than once, by more than one order.

08 Oct 06 - 05:30 PM (#1853507)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Alan Day

Interesting Shambles that you should mention that the Masonic doors are closed,up until recently you would have been right,there are now open days where you can visit lodges and discuss with a Mason those points you are interested in.From your apparant attitude however I doubt if you will take up the offer.In many ways the past attitude on Masons not to shout from the rooftops what they were doing has backfired on them.Their actions treated with suspicion,wild innacurate statements made in the press and by people ignorant people not knowing the facts.It is with that in mind Masonic leaders are trying to address the situation and make people aware of the tradition and good work that Masons do.I agree that any good minded person can do this without being a Mason and good for you if you are such a person and why not join us,enjoy the friendship of like minded people Worldwide.
Al

08 Oct 06 - 06:15 PM (#1853548)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,Kerux

Shambles:

I had meant to end my correspondence but I must say the following:

1. Not wanting to explore a subject and then believing and repeating hearsay about it is like joining in the condemnation of a play you've never seen.

2. Have you ever been blackballed?

That's a rhetorical question of course. I wouldnt expect you to answer.

For your own sake, take up the challenge if you can!

08 Oct 06 - 08:39 PM (#1853648)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Richard Bridge

Nothing put here indicates to me that there is any point to Masonic ritual.

08 Oct 06 - 09:14 PM (#1853669)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: katlaughing

Ya see what you want to see, Richard. No big deal if it's not the thing for you.

09 Oct 06 - 01:11 AM (#1853765)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Slag

In winter the lone wolf dies.

09 Oct 06 - 02:03 AM (#1853777)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: The Shambles

I agree that any good minded person can do this without being a Mason and good for you if you are such a person and why not join us,enjoy the friendship of like minded people Worldwide.

Alan - Because I feel the only way forward is through being seen to be open and inclusive.

You have avoided my point about being 'black-balled'.

And as if it matters to the discussion, no - I have not been 'black-balled'.

09 Oct 06 - 02:39 AM (#1853782)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: catspaw49

The Mudcat Piss&Moanmeister Black Balled?    No, but his balls have atrophied and now one is the size of a BB and the other is real small.......................

Spaw

09 Oct 06 - 03:47 AM (#1853820)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,Kerux

Sham:

You didn't make a point, you just floated an idea.

If Masonry was such an omniscient and omnipotent organisation, surely you'd have been eliminated by now. Perhaps Freemasons will make your keyboard explode - come to think of it, have a quick check - if it is smelling a bit odd - more proof of conspiracy if proof were needed!

That's all folks.

09 Oct 06 - 04:10 AM (#1853828)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Alan Day

Sorry Shambles I did not intend to miss out your Blackball point.
In all Lodges you first have to express your interest to become a member ideally to a person in the Lodge you wish to join.If you do not know anybody in Freemasonary you can apply direct to a Provincial Grand Lodge who will pass on your interest to a Lodge in your area.
You will then be interviewed by normally two senior members of the Lodge who will talk the whole thing over with you.Things like Why do you want to join,What do you expect to get out of Masonary etc. Certain applicants just join because they think it is a quick route to wealth and these applicants go no further.The representatives then report back to the Lodge saying that the candidate has been interviewed that in their opinion he would be ideal as a candidate and a further interview with a large number of the lodge members is then arranged and if satisfactory he is then proposed and seconded for membership.Please note that at no time does financial or your work situation effect your membership, but you odviously have to be able to afford the joining fee etc.You do not have to be a business man.We have a Postman and an X Featherweight weight boxer in our lodge.You will be asked if you have a criminal record and this will be checked out. On the evening of your admittance into the Lodge a vote of all members will be taken and at this point you could be Blackballed,it is usual however that if anyone has reservation about a possible member that this is discussed before this point to avoid any embarrassment.It has only happened once in my forty years and not in our Lodge
I hope this fully covers the points you raised.
Al

09 Oct 06 - 04:56 AM (#1853857)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: The Shambles

If Masonry was such an omniscient and omnipotent organisation, surely you'd have been eliminated by now.

This was just a cover :-)

I can now reveal that I am in fact the:

Very Very Grand Master and 20,000th Level Worshipful Poo Bah and All Powerful Holder of the Secret Key to all Lodges and Buffalo Watering Holes.

I am currently wearing my ceremonial 'pinny' and drinking my tea out of the Holy Grail, with my feet up on the Ark of the Covenant.

09 Oct 06 - 08:26 AM (#1853972)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Alan Day

Not the idiot I took you for then?
Al

09 Oct 06 - 11:03 AM (#1854109)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,Kerux

No, a he's different kind altogether Alan.

K

09 Oct 06 - 12:42 PM (#1854172)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,282RA

Shambles probably tried to get in and they didn't want him. Might even be the root of his "I must criticize everything as being beneath my dignity" attitude.

09 Oct 06 - 01:49 PM (#1854218)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,Kerux

If that's the case (that he wanted to, but didn't, get in) it's a shame.

I can hear echoes of my own youthful (long ago and pre-Masonic) voice in some of Sham's words. I wonder where life would have taken me if Masonry hadn't given me the incentive to get up off my intellectual butt?

K

09 Oct 06 - 01:58 PM (#1854225)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: The Shambles

I'm with Groucho.

I sent the club a wire stating, PLEASE ACCEPT MY RESIGNATION.

I DON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT ME AS A MEMBER.
Groucho Marx

09 Oct 06 - 04:43 PM (#1854356)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,282RA

If you don't want to belong then just be quiet. And this is in addition to the fact that there is no evidence the Masons actually do want you. I'm not a Mason but I don't go around criticizing them over it. I know a few Masons and they are good people. I'm not saying Masonry made them good, only that they don't deserve to be berated over their decision to join. No, it's not an organization I want to join but I don't criticize anyone who does. You seem to have a need to make a big deal of it.

10 Oct 06 - 03:22 AM (#1854670)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,Kerux

Sham, 282RA

I'm sorry that my views have put the two of you slightly at odds. I didn't mean to suggset that Sham is in some way a bad person, or to infer that Masonry would be a transforming expeience for everyone.

Its just that, in my case, Masonry was there for me at a time when I was perhaps ready to change. Others may derive the same kind of effect from yoga, martial arts, flower arranging or morris dancing.

However, having sampled the delights listed in the last sentence, as well as having been a Mason for many years, I have found that of all, Masonry worked best for me.

K

10 Oct 06 - 04:58 AM (#1854700)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: The Shambles

If you don't want to belong then just be quiet.

As as I do not tell you or any other poster to be quiet on our forum - it would be appreciated if this were reciprocated.

For unlike our two guest Masons - I AM a member of our forum.

I remain one mainly because it is still just about possible to freely air ones views on our forum and party because it is clear that a few of our more vocal members (and guests) would rather not have me as a member and if there were such a process - would certainly have 'black-balled' me.

10 Oct 06 - 11:55 AM (#1854926)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Paul from Hull

So, to SPITE them, in other words?

10 Oct 06 - 12:14 PM (#1854950)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: The Shambles

The best way to deal with those who may not like you (which you can do nothing about anyway)- is to carrying with a smile. If you can still manage to smile.

You may then be surprised at how many others (perhaps less vocal and better mannered) do in fact like you.

10 Oct 06 - 12:36 PM (#1854963)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Midchuck

If you don't want to belong then just be quiet.

People have been telling me that, in essence, all my life.

As I approach senility, I get more and more likely to howl long strings of obscenities, rather than obey them.

It's fun.

Peter.

10 Oct 06 - 02:38 PM (#1855082)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,Kerux

Sham - your pride in membership of Mudcat does you credit.

Its interesting that you seem ("...unlike xxx...I AM a member..")to be a bit of an elitist.

Check your trouser leg quick. You might have caught the bug.

K

10 Oct 06 - 06:36 PM (#1855320)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Richard Bridge

I think I hear the sound of one hand crapping...

10 Oct 06 - 07:06 PM (#1855346)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: 282RA

>>I AM a member of our forum. I remain one mainly because it is still just about possible to freely air ones views on our forum and party because it is clear that a few of our more vocal members (and guests) would rather not have me as a member and if there were such a process - would certainly have 'black-balled' me.<<

Written by the same poster who also wrote (in the same thread no less):

"I sent the club a wire stating, PLEASE ACCEPT MY RESIGNATION.
I DON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT ME AS A MEMBER."

Well, it looks like you need to leave Mudcat then.

10 Oct 06 - 08:48 PM (#1855425)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Paul from Hull

Yes, well it was worth a try, I suppose, 282RA!

11 Oct 06 - 02:31 AM (#1855556)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: The Shambles

Its interesting that you seem ("...unlike xxx...I AM a member..")to be a bit of an elitist.

An elitist is one who believes in rule by an elite (excusive) group. I do not. All of us are first individuals. Some of us like to try and remain individuals.

Written by the same poster who also wrote (in the same thread no less):

You refer to my later post of explanation as to why I AM a member of our forum - which was a (obviously failed) attempt to pre-empt such observations, comments and personal judgements - as yours from being made.

11 Oct 06 - 03:12 AM (#1855566)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,Kerux

Sham:

sorry to say I only wrote the first quote. Your italicisation is a mess. Try harder lad, I'm beginning to tire of this.

K

11 Oct 06 - 04:30 AM (#1855597)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: The Shambles

Before you go - perhaps you may care to explain to our forum why you choose to be proud members of your exclusive organisation but do not choose to become members of our forum?

Or not. It is your choice and it still just about remains a free world for a lucky few at least.

But for what it is worth, my prefence is for groups that will change its requirements to accomodate our individual differences rather than those which expect individuals to suit the group's requirements.

11 Oct 06 - 10:42 AM (#1855838)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,Tinker in Chicago

"But for what it is worth, my prefence is for groups that will change its requirements to accomodate our individual differences rather than those which expect individuals to suit the group's requirements."

But then the group ceases to have any definition and loses its identity. Can an atheist be a Catholic priest? Can I join the University of XYZ Alumni Association if I never attended XYZ? Would a choir be considered unfair and inflexible if it excluded the tone-deaf? Can a white Baptist join the Fruit of Islam?

It actually works the other way. If an organization defines itself by certain criteria and if I don't meet, or don't choose to meet, those criteria, then it's me that needs to move on. The alternative is for every group to admit every applicant, with no requirements, until every group is exactly like every other group--bland and meaningless.
Makes no sense.

(And yes, I'm a guest. I tried to join the forum but for whatever reason the software did not accept my application. Must be some grand Masonic conspiracy.)

11 Oct 06 - 12:56 PM (#1855951)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,Kerux

Tinker said it all and I endorse his position.

Was I the Mason who scotched the software?

K

11 Oct 06 - 05:42 PM (#1856222)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Alan Day

Do you have proof guest and little Hawk of these wild accusations of course you do not.You both hide behind anonymity and spout a load of rubbish you know nothing about.The first thing that is said to a new mason is "Do you believe in God" does that sound non Christian?
You fear evil men at the top,I fear ignorant people,bigots etc who stir up trouble for innocent people.I welcome discussion about Freemasonary, but at least base your argument on facts not fiction.
Al

11 Oct 06 - 08:58 PM (#1856381)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: The Shambles

Why is it referred to as FREEmasonry?

Was the term originally something to do with masons once again becoming free agents after working on long-team projects like cathedrals?

12 Oct 06 - 03:24 AM (#1856529)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,Kerux

Freedom of thought
Absence of dogma

K

12 Oct 06 - 04:39 AM (#1856562)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: The Shambles

"When the authentic school [in the 18th C] came to examine the English records they could find no evidence at all of the existence of operative lodges. In medieval times the operatives' lodge had simple been a hut or lean-to on the site in which they stored their tools and took their refreshment and ease.

By the 1600s the guild system, with the exception of the London Livery companies, was virtually moribund. Not was there any evidence of an English Mason word or of the English operatives having had secret modes of recognition....

Accepted masonry simply seems to have appeared in England as a new organization without any prior connections with the operative craft."
    - John Hamill, The Craft, A History of English Freemasonry

12 Oct 06 - 04:48 AM (#1856567)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: mandotim

A point was made earlier about the days of 'masons in the dock helping each other'being over. Not so. I witnessed a magistrates court hearing where the defendant was a prominent local professional. Court normally opens at 10 am, but this hearing was arranged for 9am at very short notice (i.e. before the local newspaper reporters got there.) The offence was a particularly nasty public sex offence, made worse by the fact that there was a risk of HIV, and the defendant was a surgeon. Coincidentally, I had just read 'Inside the Brotherhood', and watched in fascination as the defendant made a clear masonic distress signal as the charges were read out. Result? A truly bizarre acquittal that left the attending police officer shaking his head in disbelief. True story, no doubt about what went on.
Tim

12 Oct 06 - 02:12 PM (#1857061)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,Kerux

Is this the first time you've told anyone Tim?

K

12 Oct 06 - 04:18 PM (#1857153)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: the lemonade lady

Hey Tim, what is the signal? I was a Mason and no one taught it to me. Maybe I wasn't in the lodge long enough to need it. Will my tongue be cut out etc if I tell the secrets I was told?

Sal

12 Oct 06 - 05:21 PM (#1857194)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Richard Bridge

Ms Lemon - if you are really Ms you were not a freemason. Mandotim, I would be interested to hear more about that sign. PM a letter or a half if appropriate. I may tell you more in PM.

12 Oct 06 - 10:27 PM (#1857448)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST

Mandotin...I know the distress signal and have seen it used before. It is a last straw, and no fellow mason can ignore it. It is the reason for some truly bizarre judgements.

Alan Day...It's been a while since I've been over the information and sources on the masonic stuff, but here's where I looked at first:

http://www.thewatcherfiles.com/bloodlines/

"Bloodlines of the Illuminati" by Fritz Springmeier. It's still some of the more fascinating reading I've come across on the topic. All of you should find an online copy of this online and save it to your hard drive for casual reading. Sure, the guy who wrote is has been locked up for a dog's age as an "enemy of the state," but he and his researchers have uncovered some fascinating things.

For instance, open the chapter on one of the Illuminati families and do a "find" search of the word "mason" and read each paragraph you come to. Here's something I found in the "Russell Family" chapter:

As with all occult organizations a veil of secrecy is maintained by requiring initiates to take secrecy oaths on penalty of death. As in Witchcraft, Masonry repeatedly demands secrecy oaths at every new level. Charles T. Russell began participating in this secrecy when he took the Entered Apprentice (first Masonic degree) oath on penalty of mayhem and violent death, "I ... do hereby and hereon most solemnly and sincerely promise and swear that I will always hail, ever conceal and never reveal any of the arts, parts or points of the secret arts and mysteries of ancient Freemasonry which I received, am about to receive, or may hereafter be instructed in ..."

Springmeir has done a hell of a lot of verifiable research, and even if a lot of it is questionable, what about the part that isn't? Even if you believe 90% of this stuff is nonsense, what about the 10% you DO believe. That alone should be enough to convince you a really twisted elite is running things.

Continuing with my search of the word "mason," I find in the chapter on the Onassis bloodline:

...It was this Turk, Khedive Ismail Pasha, who gave the famous Obelisk to the United States. This Obelisk was called Cleopatra's Needle and was originally erected in the city of the sun, Heliopolis, about 1500 B.C. The Obelisk is a representation of a human penis, because sun worship, worship of regeneration (sex) and worship of the sun god Satan were all tied together. Masons helped with the moving of the obelisk, and its dedication when it arrived in New York City. Large obelisks have been erected by Masons in New York, Washington D.C., Paris, the Vatican, and London. (If my memory serves me correct Berlin received one too at one time.)...

...Aristotle (Onassis) worked within the drug/porn/political/business management area Aristotle's power was so pervasive that some researchers of his activities concluded that he was absolutely the most powerful man on earth. This is because they were not aware of the shared power of the Illuminati "kings". Aristotle did have world-wide power, but that appearance of power was there because he was part of Moriah (the Satanic hierarchy which controls the world.) ...

...Onassis was an extremely close friend of Winston Churchill. The Freemason Winston Churchill is a descendent of a family that has been part of the elite that have secretly run the world. Winston Churchill on several occasions told Onassis that the only one he could trust in W.W. II was Joseph Stalin. (This is a far cry from the picture given in history books.) Winston Churchill spent a great deal of time on Onassis's yacht Christina. Onassis was also friendly with Winston Churchill's friend of Bernard Baruch. It was Bernard Baruch who convinced Winston Churchill to join the Illuminati conspiracy. He asked Churchill to come watch something important in NY in 1929, and then he showed Churchill how they could destroy the Stock Market. That show of power brought Churchill on board....

It goes on and on. I DO believe there are controlling forces in humanity, and they would naturally seek out one another in order to form alliances and/or to do battle. Springmeier has an explanation that makes sense. The masons are just part of the sick mix.

Now do you really want me to go on with this, Alan Day? I satisfied MY curiosity about the influence of masons long ago, but if you want me to educate others on your club of perverts, I'd be glad to do so.

13 Oct 06 - 03:11 AM (#1857546)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,Kerux

Tim:

You've not answered my question yet. Richard's right, we need to know more about what took place.

Please describe the sign that you think you saw being used.

K

13 Oct 06 - 04:04 AM (#1857561)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Alan Day

So Guest because you read an interesting theory by somebody about Masonry ,from that you deduce that all Masons are perverts.
It is people like you who used to burn little old ladies as witches.
If you take part in a discussion again try to gather all the facts and not spoil your argument by sweeping accusations and rudeness.
Al

13 Oct 06 - 05:19 AM (#1857608)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: mandotim

Hi Sal! I'm not a Mason, so I don't know about the oral surgery! Guest Kerux; I don't spend my whole life by the computer; please be patient, I will get back to you. No, this isn't the first time I've spoken about it; what I saw corresponds to a number of accounts of masonic ritual and symbolism that can be found in both paper and electronic form. I checked my interpretation at the time with a close friend (without naming the defendant)and as a Mason he confirmed my observation as being correct. He also condemned the use of the signal in these circumstances wholeheartedly.
I hold no view either for or against Freemasonry, the same attitude I have to lots of societies of which I'm not a member. I'm not a Mason, nor have I ever sought to become one. All I have done is report what I saw, in a clear and unembellished form; and I know what I saw.
Tim

13 Oct 06 - 07:52 AM (#1857696)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: The Shambles

He also condemned the use of the signal in these circumstances wholeheartedly.

The wrong thing then is for any freemason to use it in such circumstances?

When one feels distressed - is that not exactly the circumstances for them to use it?

And if it used by one freemason in such circumstance - does the signal have to be recognised and acted on?

I have a feeling that it is only judged wrong (by freemasons) TO BE SEEN to use this signal in such circumstances.

If you were a freemason 'distressed' in these circumstances (or as other may discribe it - guilty as charged) and you thought its use may avoid or limit the extent of your punishment - it would be a temptation - wouldn't it.

A temptation you could be seen to avoid, as an honourable person - by not becoming a freemason.

13 Oct 06 - 08:46 AM (#1857751)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Alan Day

I remember this discussion taking place regarding a murderer who was supposed to have used signs in a court case.The judges response was that he was hanged.
Al

13 Oct 06 - 09:02 AM (#1857768)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: The Shambles

I remember this discussion taking place regarding a murderer who was supposed to have used signs in a court case.The judges response was that he was hanged.

The good thing about being open is that if or when you are wrongly accused of doing something underhand - it is ALWAYS possible to demonstrate that the accusation has no substance. That may be the situation in the case you refer to or are you suggesting that the poor unfortunate suspected murderer was hanged because he used the signal. I do hope he was tried and convicted first?:-}

Alan -I would be interested in reading your answers to my questions about the use of this signal in these circumstances.

13 Oct 06 - 11:37 AM (#1857895)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Richard Bridge

I recollect discussion of a murderer (so found) who swore an oath upon the name that most masons would have been likely to use that he was innocent, and the judge crying but still puttin on the black cap.

13 Oct 06 - 01:00 PM (#1857972)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST

You better give up on this Alan Day. Look up the meaning of mayhem (first usage in the Webster's dictionary). Your club buddies wouldn't take kindly to you discussing this stuff. lol

13 Oct 06 - 01:15 PM (#1857984)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,Kerux

Tim:

Thanks for your reply. I would concur with your friend that if indeed the act you saw took place between two Masons, both were doing something which Masonry forbids in the most absolute terms. They should be expelled from their lodges and prosecuted if what took place could be proved illegal.

I'm at one with the hanging Judge and when from time to time people (not necessarily Masons) tried to influence me by the use of handshakes and such, I always ensured that they got the opposite of what they wanted. I never wept though.

K

13 Oct 06 - 01:22 PM (#1857992)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Alan Day

As interested Shambles in the last explanation I gave you ?
If I had verbally attacked your friends, Guest, as you have done mine, then you would have reacted in the same way as I did.I have decided to pack this in,I find it difficult having discussions with anonymous people,go forth and wind up some other charitable organisation.
You will be happy for the donated equipment by Masons to be used on you should you ever be committed to Hospital,I presume? Or as it has been donated by the organisation you hate perhaps you will turn it down.
Al

13 Oct 06 - 02:55 PM (#1858082)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: The Shambles

As interested Shambles in the last explanation I gave you ?

Yes - I was very interested in reading that. Just because I may not be seen to agree with you does not mean that I am not interested in reading them.

My experience has been that I have liked many freemason that I have known and have always wondered why such people would wish to become freemasons. As I have usually liked them before I knew they were freemasons and knowing this - has made little real difference to our relationship.

If there were me and a fellow freemason in equal distress but they could signal theirs - I may find out that as a non-freemason I would be second choice for my friend's assistance - but that senario has
yet to be tested.

The aspect of the distress signal and its use in the circumstances earlier described - is perhaps a crucial one in answering my main question.

13 Oct 06 - 08:02 PM (#1858332)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST

Yeah, pack it in Alan. Wise move. I guess you momentarily forgot about that death and mayhem clause. And no hard feelings. I have lots of family members who are masons, and they absolutely freeze when I ask them about the society. Scared to death. Otherwise brave and open men rendered helpless and mute by that freakin' oath. And they have no clue why the oath was necessary, and never will, because they're too good to rise to the level of the ritualistic sacrifices. They'll never be invited into the inner circle.

13 Oct 06 - 08:27 PM (#1858352)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Paul from Hull

Maybe thats so Guest, but whats keeping YOU anonymous when you go on about all this stuff?

13 Oct 06 - 09:58 PM (#1858398)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST

Couldn't care less if I'm anonymous, Paul from Hull. If the masons don't get me old age will. Might as well tell the truth, as well as I'm able to see it, while I'm here.

14 Oct 06 - 03:24 AM (#1858484)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,Kerux

I think this thread has run its course. It's been a good opportunity to talk about a subject which, had it not already existed, would have had to have been invented.

I've been a little saddened by some of the rhetoric, but heartened by the openeness and receptivity of some of the contributors.

Once again and finally I would encourage anyone who has an honest curiosity about Masonry should consider joining, and indeed to adopt a similar approach to anything else in life of which they are presently ignorant, and as a consequence fear.

Adieu

K

14 Oct 06 - 03:45 AM (#1858490)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Richard Bridge

I don't think the OP's questions about the merit if any of the marching about and transparently foolish pseudo-historical mumbo-jumbo have been addressed - or seem likely to be addressed.

Some of the rantings about black magic and human sacrifice on this thread are pretty comical too.

14 Oct 06 - 03:53 AM (#1858493)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST, A Widow's Son

I'd also add that at least one allegedly informed post quotes from (frankly) obsolete workings.

But thank you all for your perspectives. I didn't find any of the enlightenment I thought I might find on this forum where at least some posters seem well informed on many things. I did find (curiously, mostly in anti-masonry rants) enough about which to continue to be curious that I think I will swallow my impatience with the silly ritual for a while longer and see where I get to.

At least I might. At one recent night of instruction we were in an attic room where there had been a new window installed, and it had not yet been curtained. Some members were seriously suggesting that we should rehearse without the use of signs, presumably in case a starling with a good memory might fly past, and learn the "secrets". That is the sort of twaddle that greatly encourages me to quit.

14 Oct 06 - 04:13 AM (#1858498)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Alan Day

I will just come out of retirement and say to you Widows Son that I felt the same about Masonry when I joined ."What the hell have I got myself into here" as you progress however the ritual,the regalia,the signs etc start to become clear,the tradition etc There should be many members in your lodge who will answer your concerns.You have joined a society Worldwide ,you will be welcomed into any Lodge Worlwide.Stick with it and ignore the likes of Guest and many others who's only aim is to discredit the fine work that Masons do.Like me decide for yourself,stick it out,visit other lodges ,enjoy the subtle differences in the ritual from one lodge to another and make new friends.
Goodbye to this discussion
Al

14 Oct 06 - 04:28 AM (#1858505)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Slag

Are you aware that the free meson is implicated directly in the broken symmetry of the SU sub 3? Where will it all end? I mean, they did create the universe, didn't they? Their secret handshake is in another dimension whereas they just string you along here.

14 Oct 06 - 02:53 PM (#1858868)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: the lemonade lady

Richard Bridge: I was a member of the Masonic Lodge for women called Cefnllys in Newport, Gwent. I swore to have my tongue torn out and buried 25 leagues from the shore, where the tide ebbs and flows, if I talked about what I whitnessed within the lodge when I was initiated. My left breast was bare and I was slip shod, with a stocking rolled down to my ankle for the ceremony with a blindfold and a noose around my neck. I felt the dagger at my throat. If I'm not a mason how would I know these things??? And yes, I'm a Ms!

Sal (probably never to sing again!!!)

14 Oct 06 - 03:56 PM (#1858899)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Richard Bridge

What is the lodge number in the United Grand Lodge of England? There are other things that pretend to be freemasonry that are not approved, and it sounds a bit like one of them. Sorry, they don't count.

Here is an example of sisters trying to do it for themselves - a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4629813.stm">BBC article

Yeah right.

14 Oct 06 - 08:46 PM (#1859064)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Bonecruncher

Guest - A Widow's Son
Once you have been raised to become a Master Mason try to get hold of a copy of the book "The Lectures of the Three Degrees of Freemasonry". My copy is dated 1947 and was published by A. Lewis, who still sell Masonic Regalia.
The full lectures are rarely done in Lodge due to restrictions of time, but the full version does explain how and where the ritual as done in Lodge fits in with the history. I found that it answered most of the questions, probably similar to yours, and enabled me to fit things together.
Otherwise PM me with a letter or a half and I may be able to help you.
Colyn.

14 Oct 06 - 08:57 PM (#1859068)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Bonecruncher

For those who wish to know more about Freemasonry in the UK go to www.grandlodge-england.org
Colyn. (Who is unable to do the blue clicky thing)

14 Oct 06 - 10:41 PM (#1859118)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST

Masons...you join so others can control you. That is it. That is the whole of it. And you're a fool if you join a club that threatens you with death on day one.

14 Oct 06 - 10:46 PM (#1859122)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: bobad

Hey GUEST, there are many folks out there looking for a "family", why begrudge them?

15 Oct 06 - 03:31 AM (#1859190)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,A Widow's Son

Yes I have been raised and actually leapfrogged in the order of offices so someone thinks I am heading in the right direction. But it still looks like a lot of foolish amateur dramatics.

I assume we are agreed that the idea that there were operative masons who actually built King Solomon's Temple, with real secrets known only to three people, that Hiram Abith was killed because he would not reveal the secrets and that the other two went to their graves with the secrets because it needed three to consent to their disclosure is simply a load of fairy tales?

And that there is no trace of any operative lodges with anything resembling masonic ritual prior to the 16/1700s(ish)?


Grand Lodge Website

15 Oct 06 - 01:42 PM (#1859475)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST

My understanding is that masons ordered themselves into a guild to protect the "secret" of the keystone...the last stone set in place at the top of an arch. Must have seemed like magic when arches of that type started appearing. And the men who knew how to build them wanted to exclude others (like the oil refiners today limiting the number of refineries). The masons had good P.R. and sold builders on the idea that if it wasn't union-built, the arch would come crashing down. They probably even tore down arches that didn't have the proper symbols carved into them.

Centuries passed, and like all bureaucracies, the masons grew into much more than the simple organization they first were. Like conglomeration in business. The masons had a strong networking service and sought to bring new blood into it (professional blood, like lawyers, politicians, etc.), so the mission of the organization changed. It was opened up to men of other professions.

But then the masons started getting greedy. They wanted CONTROL over various aspects of society, and the quickest way to get that control is through politics. So that's where their focus is now. And over the centuries they've merged with some pretty unsavory other clubs in order to achieve political power. Luciferians, for example. And since the stronger will prevail, the masons are now under the control of some bad, bad people.

Or that's what I've been able to piece together. Like I said, 99.9% of masons are what Lenin called "useful idiots." They serve a cause they know nothing about. They do their good deeds, and that's commendable. But they do it under threat of death, and that's bad. The upper .1% knows what's going on, and those people are mucho bad. Sworn to kill their own families if the masons order it. That's about as low as you can sink.

Don't join, that way you can speak out against the organization and not violate their oath. And push for the barring of masons in politics. That'll never happen, of course, so question them when they are in public, campaigning. Make them SAY they belong to a club they can't talk about. Membership in such clubs may have awed voters a hundred years ago, but today it's the kiss of death. Drive masons out of their offices by turning over their rocks. Expose them to honesty.

15 Oct 06 - 02:57 PM (#1859541)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,Beelzebub

Now don't you go associating us honest fallen angels with the Masons. They won't let us Luciferians join.

666

15 Oct 06 - 11:54 PM (#1859964)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Seamus Kennedy

Shambles, if you want to join the Knights of Columbus, they'll take you.
They specialise in guys who wouldn't be members of clubs that would take the likes of them.

Wait a minute....are you a Catholic?


Seamus

15 Oct 06 - 11:55 PM (#1859966)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Seamus Kennedy

Ancient Order of Hibernians?

Seamus

16 Oct 06 - 02:26 AM (#1860012)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: The Shambles

Wait a minute....are you a Catholic?

Am I a catholic? - I'm the bloody Pope.

16 Oct 06 - 03:07 AM (#1860018)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,Lucifuge Rofocale

We're in good company then

16 Oct 06 - 01:46 PM (#1860509)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,282RA

I remember arguing with some dumbass named JDENNIS in some other forum. Mr. I'm-a-Freemason-and-you're-not. He kept trying to put over on me that the Masonic secrets are unknown outside the organization. He, of course, is full of shit. Anyone can learn these secrets. His contention was that if anyone could learn them there would be no point to the secrecy. But there is a point to it: I know many of these so-called secrets but I've not been sworn to secrecy. That's the difference. When you take an oath, it has this binding effect on all who have taken it. That's what builds this feeling of belonging, of brotherhood. Doesn't mean shit what these secrets are as long as the organization to which you've joined swears you to secrecy concerning them.

As for the death threats, they're symbolic. Nobody is going to kill you for divulging them. I belonged to a secret club once where I took oaths that WERE and ARE enforced. I could lose my freedom for divulging them. I refer, of course, to the military. They are far more secret and serious about that than the Masons and I guarantee a layman does NOT know these secrets and never will. Now who's more of a threat?

16 Oct 06 - 05:20 PM (#1860713)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Richard Bridge

So, 282RA, show us the distress sign...

16 Oct 06 - 07:08 PM (#1860817)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,282RA

Sure thing

16 Oct 06 - 09:13 PM (#1860902)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Richard Bridge

Surely someone would have blackballed him? He's even worse than some of the morons in my lodge!

16 Oct 06 - 11:00 PM (#1860966)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Bonecruncher

Guest - A Widow's Son
Might I suggest you try to obtain a copy of the book "The Lectures of the Three Degrees of Freemasonry". My copy is dated 1947 and was published by A. Lewis, who still sell Masonic Regalia. Toye might also have it.
The full lectures are rarely done in Lodge due to restrictions of time but the full version does explain how and where the ritual as done in Lodge fits in with the history. I found that it answered most of my questions, probably similar to yours, and enabled me to fit things together.
Otherwise PM me with a letter or a half and and I may be able to help you.
Colyn.

17 Oct 06 - 04:00 AM (#1861062)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Alan Day

Guest 282RA you have now given away our top secrets,how can this discussion or Freemasonry go any further.Our "Guest" now has the secrets that he can use World wide.
Shame on you.
Al
PS thanks for a good laugh

26 Oct 06 - 12:02 PM (#1869194)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: GUEST,hosh

freemasonary offers a man of resonable repute achance to mix with gentlemen to make the world a better place for all

26 Oct 06 - 12:13 PM (#1869205)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Wesley S

Masons Struggle With Racial Separation.

Story Here

26 Oct 06 - 12:23 PM (#1869208)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: eddie1

On The History Channel (UK) Saturday 28th 8.00pm - "History of Freemasonry". Same time Sunday "Freemasons in America"

Eddie

26 Oct 06 - 12:32 PM (#1869216)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: The Shambles

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Three_Degrees

A well-known fan of the group is Prince Charles, who invited them to perform at Buckingham Palace for his 30th birthday party

26 Oct 06 - 05:57 PM (#1869445)
Subject: RE: BS: Freemasonry
From: Richard Bridge

Are the Deep South "Grand lodges" or the "Prince Hall" lodges recognised by London Grand Lodge? I think that must be the test, mustn't it?