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07 Oct 06 - 04:14 PM (#1852908) Subject: Tune Add: Ffarwel Ned Pugh From: Peace Found this while looking for something else. Go to the bottom of the page that opens. |
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07 Oct 06 - 06:19 PM (#1852986) Subject: RE: Tune Add: Ffarwel Ned Pugh From: Stewart X:1 T:Ffarwel Ned Pugh C:Welsh fairy tune N:In the legend of lola ap Hugh, than which no story is more widely known in Wales, the fairy origin of that famous tune 'Ffarwel Ned Pugh' is shown. M:2/4 L:1/8 Q:1/4=90 K:Bb B2|f3/2 e/2 d f|B B A2|B2f3/2 e/2|d c B A/2 c/2| c3/2 A/2 c f|f =e f2|f2_e3/2 d/2|c B A A/2 z/2| [M:3/4]f2|f2d2f2|e2c2e2|d3f e2|d2c2B2| c2d2e2|d2c2B2|e3d c2|B2A2f2|f2e2d2|d2c2B2|A2B2|] Copy and paste into concertina.net and click on "submit" to get a midi and the score. Cheers, S. in Seattle |
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07 Oct 06 - 07:34 PM (#1853033) Subject: RE: Tune Add: Ffarwel Ned Pugh From: Peace WOW! |
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08 Oct 06 - 10:22 AM (#1853268) Subject: RE: Tune Add: Ffarwel Ned Pugh From: sian, west wales Oh lord. OK - but at least try for *some* accuracy. It's Iolo, not Lola. And 'ap Huw a.k.a. Ned Pugh, and he was a crythor (i.e. he played a crwth) not a fiddler. And if you want to buy into any of the rest of that stuff - including all the appalling inaccuracies in spelling, et al - there's nothing I can do to stop you. (((( sheesh )))) sian |
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08 Oct 06 - 01:26 PM (#1853354) Subject: RE: Tune Add: Ffarwel Ned Pugh From: Stewart sian, you're right, I don't know what I'm talking about. Just what I read on the 'net and I shouldn't believe it. And it wasn't much of a tune either. So there! I won't do it again. Cheers, S. in Seattle |
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08 Oct 06 - 01:44 PM (#1853360) Subject: RE: Tune Add: Ffarwel Ned Pugh From: Peace Welcome to the folk process. |
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08 Oct 06 - 03:34 PM (#1853425) Subject: RE: Tune Add: Ffarwel Ned Pugh From: sian, west wales I've been annoyed at myself since this morning for having posted a reply in rather bad tone. So - herewith my apologies. For the tone. It is annoying to see rather slap-dash articles on-line (if they ramble on and don't get the basics right, how dependable can they be?) but I don't have to get snippy ... For information, there are at least 9 in the family of tunes known as Ffarwel Ned Pugh/Puw. The oldest published example was 1781. It was originally a dance tune but had lost the dance connection by the mid 1700s. Today, one of the versions is a very popular Plygain carol. Apparently there was an essay on it by A. Martin Freeman in the Welsh Folk Song Society Journal Vol iii, Part 3, 1937, but that's one I don't have so can't take this any farther. Again, apologies. My mood also had something to do with Sunday Morning's unfortunate habit of following Saturday night. And a good Saturday night it was too. sian |
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08 Oct 06 - 04:57 PM (#1853482) Subject: RE: Tune Add: Ffarwel Ned Pugh From: Peace Hey, Sian. Hope today's a good one for you. |
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08 Oct 06 - 07:28 PM (#1853605) Subject: RE: Tune Add: Ffarwel Ned Pugh From: Snuffy Most of the inaccuracies in that article on the net are because it was obviously OCR scanned and never properly proof-read - hence "Iolo" appears as "lob" most of the time |
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08 Oct 06 - 07:55 PM (#1853621) Subject: RE: Tune Add: Ffarwel Ned Pugh From: Stewart sian, no need to apologize. I am a little embarrased that I took that so uncritically. But since I'm interested in fiddle tunes, I'd be interested in seeing any of "the family of tunes known as Ffarwel Ned Pugh/Puw." Or any other Welsh dance tunes you might have. Cheers, S. in Seattle |
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09 Oct 06 - 04:38 AM (#1853851) Subject: RE: Tune Add: Ffarwel Ned Pugh From: sian, west wales Stewart, you must get yourself a copy of "Alawon John Thomas: A fiddler's tune book from eighteenth-century Wales", National Library of Wales 2004, ISBN 1 86225 042 1. It isn't 'just' Welsh tunes as it is the collection of a 'jobbing' Welsh fiddler of the time, and he would need to know the local favourites as well as the fad tunes of the time. This particular book is part of Cass Meurig's ... doctoral? ... thesis and she's an excellent crythor / fiddler herself. One of the Ned Puws is in it. I could scan you the 3 I have if you send me an email address. sian |
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09 Oct 06 - 01:11 PM (#1854195) Subject: RE: Tune Add: Ffarwel Ned Pugh From: sian, west wales OK - I've sent Stewart a couple of scans with another 2 to follow. I thought I'd add some additional info here: From Cass Meurig's book (John Thomas fiddler): A carolau tune particularly associated with Christmas carols; according to Phyllis Kinney, it was 'by far the most popular of the Welsh Christmas Carols, in terms of length of tradition and in number of variants'. A set of verses to 'Ffarwel Ned Puw' was published in Thomas Jones's *Carolau a Dyriau Duwiol* (1696) p 244 in the anapaestic metre 11.11.11.11 D; three others were included in later editions in the metre 8.7.8.7 D (*awdl-gywydd*) 5555555.4, one of which calls for 'Ffarwel Ned Puw y ffordd hwyaf' (the longest way). Amongst the other sources which preserve carols to the tune are *Llyfr Ofergerddi* and *Blodeugerdd* (1759); in addition, one of the *awdl-gywydd* 'Ffarwel Ned Puw' tunes survived into the twentieth century in the plygain carol singing tradition. Numerous tunes called 'Ffarwel Ned Puw' exist which fit the awdl-gywydd metre, three of which were recorded by Ifor Ceri in *Per-Seiniau* numbers 25-27. John Thomas's tune will fit the anapaestic metre somewhat awkwardly, but appears to be unrealted to any of the awdl-gywydd carol tunes. It may have been used as a dance tune; William Jones of Llangadfan mentions that there were once dances to 'Ffarwel Ned Puw'. Other versions of the JT tune are found in Morris Edwards' tunebook (1778-9), British Harmony (1781) and Relicks (1784). So those are Cass' notes. I would like to add something else. Someone I was in contact with some time ago was a fiddler from somewhere like ... Oregon? He was doing the Folk course at Memorial in Newfoundland and was getting into fiddle sessions with some local old timers. He told me that he felt he had the greatest compliment of his musical life when an old fiddler told him that he had played one Irish tune particularly well because 'she had the Gaelic in 'er.' This points out that tunes do indeed reflect their native spoken language. You may feel that some of the Ned Puw versions don't strike you as they should but they do make sense to someone listening to the 'in Welsh' as it were. sian |