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19 Oct 06 - 05:07 AM (#1862985) Subject: Tim Buckley's Song to a Siren From: Kara Hi Can any one throw any light on the meaning of words of this song. The line that is troubling me is "were you there when I was foc'sle" or I have also seen it writen as "where you hare when I was fox" I believe the foc'sle reference to be some sort of shipping term, which would make sense, but then maybe the "there" should be some other shipping term. got any clues? Kara |
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19 Oct 06 - 08:38 AM (#1863093) Subject: RE: Tim Buckley's Song to a Siren From: bobad "Were you here when I was full sail" Another version I found at a lyrics site. If someone has the recording maybe with careful listening they can decipher the lyrics as they all seem plausible. Tim's singing style does make it difficult to sometimes make out the words. |
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19 Oct 06 - 11:09 AM (#1863240) Subject: RE: Tim Buckley's Song to a Siren From: bobad I found a recording on-line by a group called The Czars http://www.theczars.net/The%20Czars%20-%20Song%20to%20the%20siren.mp3 They appear to sing the lyrics as "Were you hare when I was fox" which does rhyme with and has the same number of syllables as the fourth line "Broken lovelorn on your rocks" |
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19 Oct 06 - 12:03 PM (#1863299) Subject: Lyr Add: SONG TO THE SIREN (Tim Buckley) From: GUEST,kenny Is this the same song which was recorded by the group "This Mortal Coil" ? I didn't know it was Tim Buckley, and don't know if he was credited, but will check up on it. I found this with a "google" : Lyrics to "Song to the Siren" by This Mortal Coil On the floating, shapeless oceans I did all my best to smile til your singing eyes and fingers drew me loving into your eyes. And you sang "Sail to me, sail to me; Let me enfold you." Here I am, here I am waiting to hold you. Did I dream you dreamed about me? Were you here when I was full sail? Now my foolish boat is leaning, broken love lost on your rocks. For you sang, "Touch me not, touch me not, come back tomorrow." Oh my heart, oh my heart shies from the sorrow. I'm as puzzled as a newborn child. I'm as riddled as the tide. Should I stand amid the breakers? Or shall I lie with death my bride? Hear me sing: "Swim to me, swim to me, let me enfold you." "Here I am. Here I am, waiting to hold you." Apologies if this is not the song you're asking about - but the line is there. |
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19 Oct 06 - 12:07 PM (#1863301) Subject: RE: Tim Buckley's Song to a Siren From: GUEST,kenny Some information here : http://tenser.typepad.com/tenser_said_the_tensor/2005/08/song_to_the_sir.html |
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19 Oct 06 - 12:41 PM (#1863349) Subject: RE: Tim Buckley's Song to a Siren From: dwditty A couple of days ago, I started a thread about finding rare video on You Tube. Here is a link to Tim, himself, singing Song to the Siren. The words are clear. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JAT859NotE dw |
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19 Oct 06 - 01:55 PM (#1863425) Subject: RE: Tim Buckley's Song to a Siren From: Kara Thanks to everyone for the info and the links |
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19 Oct 06 - 03:55 PM (#1863529) Subject: RE: Tim Buckley's Song to a Siren From: Anne Lister Have to admit when I did a version of this with my then singing partner Mary McLaughlin and she sang lead vocals I always assumed the line was "Were you there when I was fossil?", which makes no more sense than anything else! Anne |
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19 Oct 06 - 04:08 PM (#1863542) Subject: RE: Tim Buckley's Song to a Siren From: Kara hi Anne You are not alone in the fossil tradition. Makes me wonder if maybe it wasn't me that gave Mary the words! I seem to remember this was one of the song that me and my then band The Bold Marys sang when we failed to win the Galway Busking festival in 1980 something. |
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19 Oct 06 - 09:35 PM (#1863788) Subject: RE: Tim Buckley's Song to a Siren From: Helen I have the album Morning Glory: The Tim Buckley Anthology andTrack 9 is Song to the Siren (a studio recording) and then Track 16 is the Monkees show recording, which is the same as the YouTube video. (BTW, I can't get the YouTube videos to play without stop-start staccato). Unfortunately this CD doesn't have printed lyrics. As far as I can tell, and also doing a search on the (unreliable) 'Net the words are "Were you hare when I was fox". Some lyrics sites have the words "full sail" but TB is definitely not singing that. It is clearly a one syllable word. dwditty, you said the lyrics are clear on the video, but what do you hear? I hadn't realised what the words were. I thought he was singing "were you here when I was (something)" so it never made sense to me. I first heard this song in a shared house in the mid 1970's, on a vinyl record of This Mortal Coil, and never realised it was a Tim Buckley song. (Well, I'm a bit confused because my friend who owned the record said it was Meredith Monk singing but that the group was This Mortal Coil. But it doesn't look like she is singing it (I bought the CD) but two people from the Cocteau Twins are performing it and that is the connection, I think.) Maybe I think it was This Mortal Coil because I heard that on the radio in the '80's and assumed it was the same record because the arrangement was very similar. I really don't know. I was fascinated with the song. I had already been exposed to Tim Buckley in the first shared house I lived in in 1974 when a woman staying there for a while was torturing me by playing this howling, caterwauling singer over and over again, until finally, after I stopped asking everyone to put the singer out of his misery, I "got" it and loved it. That was the Sefronia album. Helen |
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20 Oct 06 - 01:36 AM (#1863901) Subject: RE: Tim Buckley's Song to a Siren From: dwditty If You Tube stops and starts when playing video, simply Pause the video for a minute or so to give the download a head start. |
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20 Oct 06 - 06:25 AM (#1864009) Subject: RE: Tim Buckley's Song to a Siren From: GUEST,kenny http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKmK856IJDI |
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20 Oct 06 - 04:09 PM (#1864522) Subject: RE: Tim Buckley's Song to a Siren From: Anne Lister Hi, Kara ... don't think you were responsible for Mary's creative mis-hearing. When we started working together in London (must have been 1984) she'd already been in London for some considerable time (and hadn't sung much in Ireland, or attended too many gigs there). She told me she'd heard it from the Cocteau Twins. I always had a great image of this sea-swept ammonite, but I shall reluctantly have to let it go now! Anne |
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20 Oct 06 - 07:16 PM (#1864682) Subject: RE: Tim Buckley's Song to a Siren From: Helen I listened again to the This Mortal Coil version, performed by the two people from the Cocteau Twins, and the vocalist is singing "fossil". A Mondegreen, perhaps? Helen |
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20 Oct 06 - 07:26 PM (#1864692) Subject: RE: Tim Buckley's Song to a Siren From: bobad Helen, might they be singing "fo'c's'le" which sounds somewhat like "fossil" http://www.tfd.com/fo'c's'le and means the front part of a ship. |
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20 Oct 06 - 07:37 PM (#1864696) Subject: RE: Tim Buckley's Song to a Siren From: Peace I think the lyrics were written by Larry Beckett. |
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20 Oct 06 - 07:53 PM (#1864702) Subject: RE: Tim Buckley's Song to a Siren From: Peace I might be wrong about that, but I might also be wrong about being wrong. |
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20 Oct 06 - 07:56 PM (#1864705) Subject: RE: Tim Buckley's Song to a Siren From: bobad I have seen it attributed to Larry Beckett as well. |
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21 Oct 06 - 05:48 AM (#1864924) Subject: RE: Tim Buckley's Song to a Siren From: Helen bobad, I'm not really sure what she is singing because it could be either "fossil" or "fo'c's'le", but I'd take Tim Buckley's version as the original, and "hare when I was fox" makes more sense than either of the others. dwditty, I've tried waiting until the full video loads on YouTube but it doesn't make any difference. I do have broadband, but videos don't really work well on my computer unless I save them and play them offline. On a thread about YouTube someone posted a link to a download which allows saving of the videos. I think I'll have to do that. Helen |
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21 Oct 06 - 06:55 AM (#1864950) Subject: RE: Tim Buckley's Song to a Siren From: vielleuse I've always sung "hare when I was fox". It's nice to know I'm right! Version of us doing it on our myspace: |
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21 Oct 06 - 12:49 PM (#1865122) Subject: RE: Tim Buckley's Song to a Siren From: Kara I'd like to hear more about Larry Beckett. Who is he? |
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03 Dec 06 - 08:51 PM (#1899250) Subject: RE: Tim Buckley's Song to a Siren From: bobad There's a very interesting interview with Larry Beckett at http://www.furious.com/PERFECT/larrybeckett.html |
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18 Nov 08 - 06:15 AM (#2496528) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Song to the Siren (Tim Buckley) From: VirginiaTam Gonna revive this thread because I am studying Buckley at the moment. On the floating, shapeless oceans I did all my best to smile til your singing eyes and fingers drew me loving into your eyes. Should be "On the float on shipless oceans" and "drew me loving to your isle" Also I think "hare and fox" does not make sense in the middle of a sea metaphor. My poet sense says that fo'c's'le (forecastle) the front part of a ship is correct to the rest of the lyrics. NOW for another question. Originally heard this song perfomed by Tim Buckley on John Peel festive fifties compilation. It was obviously a studio recording, and wrenched my soul it was so lovely and haunting. Now listening again and having searched on you tube found the live performance, found it did not strike me as strongly as the studio recording with it's electronic embellishment and female vocal. Wondering why that is, since normally I prefer a live performance to studio recording. I usually prefer a clean unadulterated version to one fancied up in studio. What happened here? Oh the shame! |
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18 Nov 08 - 06:28 AM (#2496535) Subject: Lyr Add: SONG TO THE SIREN (Tim Buckley) From: Sleepy Rosie These are the Buckley lyrics I have: "Long afloat on shipless oceans I did all my best to smile Til your singing eyes and fingers Drew me laughing, to your isle And you sang: Sail to me Sail to me Let me enfold you Here I am Here I am Waiting to hold you Did I dream you dreamed about me Were you hare when I was fox? Now my foolish boat is leaning Broken lovelorn on your rocks. For you sing: Touch me not Touch me not Come back tomorrow Oh my heart Oh my heart Shies at the sorrow I am puzzled as a newborn child I am troubled as the tide Should I stand amid the breakers Or lie with death my bride? Hear me sing Swim to me Swim to me Let me enfold you Here I am Here I am Waiting to hold you." |
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18 Nov 08 - 06:29 AM (#2496536) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Song to the Siren (Tim Buckley) From: GUEST,Working Radish I reckon it's "long afloat", and it's definitely "Were you hare when I was fox?"; it may not be very nautical, but it has the advantage of making at least some kind of sense. |
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18 Nov 08 - 06:34 AM (#2496539) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Song to the Siren (Tim Buckley) From: Sleepy Rosie Yes, it's hare and fox. I think other versions may have creatively misheard the lyrics, and bent them to fit the nautical theme. But hare and fox makes sense, 'cos he's describing the inversion of the relationship between the hunter and the hunted, or in this case the tempter and the tempted. Lovely song, I first heard This Mortal Coils version, and then chased up the Buckley lyrics in order to sing it. |
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18 Nov 08 - 06:45 AM (#2496544) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Song to the Siren (Tim Buckley) From: VirginiaTam Ok... more fans of the song... GREAT! So would it be appropriate for a 50ish woman to sing it? I want to sing it though it tends to make me a bit weepy. I couldn't listen to it for months after daughter passed away. In fact, my partner (bless him) still asks me if it is ok to play it. I would just love to be able to perform this in honour my daughter. |
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18 Nov 08 - 06:53 AM (#2496551) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Song to the Siren (Tim Buckley) From: Sleepy Rosie Virginia Tam - can't see why it'd be in any way 'innapropriate' for a lady in her fifties to sing this! Horribly cathartic though: all the loss and sorrow in this song, the broken dreams.. I can see why it'd be a really tough one to sing if there is grief and memories attatched for you. I have silimar problems with songs that bring my Mum to mind. Gotta be good for the soul I guess though. |
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18 Nov 08 - 01:08 PM (#2496864) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Song to the Siren (Tim Buckley) From: Suegorgeous I sing this and I'm in my 50s - what's age got to do with it? A couple of years ago, when I totally fell in love with this song and started learning it, I spent days researching it and the lyrics thing. Here's a very interesting discussion link I found at the time: Siren discussion The melody is by Tim Buckley, but the lyrics were written by Larry Beckett, who says (on Morning Glory sleeve): "I brought him (TB)... the lyrics and put them in front of him while he was eating breakfast. There was a pause, he looked at them, picked up his 12-string guitar, and more or less played the song that you hear." After researching that whole verse 2, line 2 issue, I settled on the "hare and fox" version. I became pretty sure that is what LB wrote, plus it makes the most sense to me - and if you listen to Elizabeth Fraser's version (Mortal Coil), she has quite a strong French(?) accent - bear this in mind as she sings that line, and she is indeed singing "fox", only she pronounces it "foxer" (approx). Also on Virginia's Youtube link, TB is very clearly singing "hare and fox". I sing the version that Rosie gives above, except I use "riddled as the tide" and "Or should I lie with death my bride". Another interesting lyrics point is that Beckett originally wrote "puzzled as the oyster", which TB does sing in the Youtube vid, but he changes it in other versions, as do most other singers in versions I've heard. I sang this once at some friends' divorce ceremony! seemed very appropriate somehow. Sue |
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18 Nov 08 - 01:14 PM (#2496873) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Song to the Siren (Tim Buckley) From: Suegorgeous ok, that link doesn't work - trying again: Siren discussion |
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18 Nov 08 - 01:33 PM (#2496889) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Song to the Siren (Tim Buckley) From: VirginiaTam Thanks for the buck up Suegorgeous. I listened to the This Mortal Coil Version and don't like as much as Tim Buckley version. Odd because I adore Cocteau Twins, Liz's second incarnation. Thanks for the link to discussion too. |
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18 Nov 08 - 02:03 PM (#2496921) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Song to the Siren (Tim Buckley) From: Suegorgeous hmmm, interesting.......just watched 2 Liz Fraser versions, and now I'm not so sure she is singing "fox". Sounds now more like "here when I was flotsam" to me, and if you watch her lips, she's definitely singing an "m" sound at the end of that word... ho hum! still gonna stick to hare and fox though! |
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19 Nov 08 - 02:36 AM (#2497403) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Song to the Siren (Tim Buckley) From: VirginiaTam I think (if ever I can control the sorrow) I will sing fo'c's'le, because it makes more sense to me. I probably did a no no. Wrote a poem for my daughter Andie that can be set to the Song to the Siren tune. Luckily I can't sing that. |
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19 Nov 08 - 03:07 AM (#2497411) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Song to the Siren (Tim Buckley) From: GUEST Elizabeth Fraser...has quite a strong French(?) accent She's Scottish. |
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19 Nov 08 - 01:31 PM (#2497760) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Song to the Siren (Tim Buckley) From: Suegorgeous whoops! apologies to Elizabeth then. I somehow had it in the back of my mind she was French-Canadian(!) Also at certain points in the song her accent did sound distinctly European to me... so I'll go back and listen again (and wash my ears out). :( Sue |
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19 Nov 08 - 02:27 PM (#2497818) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Song to the Siren (Tim Buckley) From: VirginiaTam maybe she is one o them highland bonnie prince charlie french speaking scots? |
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19 Nov 08 - 06:49 PM (#2498045) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Song to the Siren (Tim Buckley) From: Suegorgeous hmmm, still sounds French to me! anyway, one one version she's clearly singing "flotsam" (to me!). I completely agree with Rosie in her post above - the hare and fox lyric make much more sense than anything else, for the reason she states. And that is what the songwriter wrote. *sigh* this has inspired me to start singing it again! |
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21 Nov 08 - 07:12 AM (#2499211) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Song to the Siren (Tim Buckley) From: Suegorgeous refresh (cos I love it so much and I'm greedy!) :) |
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21 Nov 08 - 01:59 PM (#2499487) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Song to the Siren (Tim Buckley) From: VirginiaTam Well I dunno what else to say bout it. Brilliant song. Makes me cry to sing it. Here is the poem I wrote M'ANAMCHARA M'anamchara, my girl, my daughter Caught up lost and lonely souls Loved and led us with your laughter Bound us together with your calls Come to me Come to me Come let me show you Follow me Follow me I want to know you M'anamchara, singing your hymns Not a one to be left undone All the lost ones, how you sought them When wove us into your song Here I am Here I am Come now and find me Find me now Find me now Can you know me M'anamchara, we gathered round you All around that farewell day Though we were found, we had lost you And could not follow you away Where are you Where are you Why did you leave I am here I am here Do not grieve me M'anamchara, those you befriended Told the strength that you had shared Sorrow for one moment suspended Then we sang your soul away M'anamchara, how you cared I'll be there I've not forsaken I love you Love you all And I cannot be taken A song for my daughter Andrea Louise Robbins - about Andie and her funeral service. How her legacy survives through the lives she touched. Inspired by Sleepy Rosie through this thread and some PMs. |
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21 Nov 08 - 02:08 PM (#2499499) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Song to the Siren (Tim Buckley) From: Suegorgeous Virginia - I'm so sorry you lost your daughter. I can't imagine how agonizing that must be. Yeh, when a close friend, and my parents died, what always puzzled me most was - where are you? how someone can just disappear like that I find baffling and hardest to come to terms with... |
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21 Feb 11 - 04:33 PM (#3099939) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Song to the Siren (Tim Buckley) From: GUEST,JFW You've all missed Tim singing "I'm as puzzled as the oyster" on the Monkeys Show version. Apparently this was the original lyric but changed by record company management because it made no sense to them. |
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21 Feb 11 - 08:49 PM (#3100048) Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Song to the Siren (Tim Buckley) From: Suegorgeous I did mention that above. Weird, eh... to me, newborn child makes no more sense than oyster! |