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27 Oct 06 - 04:59 PM (#1870274) Subject: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: GUEST It's pretty humdrum around here at the moment, not a lot happening. Need for a Irish thread to stimulate and invigorate ! |
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27 Oct 06 - 05:04 PM (#1870280) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: pdq The US has had four presidents of Irish descent (that's 50% or more). Can you name them? |
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27 Oct 06 - 05:12 PM (#1870282) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: GUEST You mean 50% of Americans don't claim to be of Irish descent? Pull the other one. |
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27 Oct 06 - 05:30 PM (#1870294) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: GUEST ANDREW JACKSON (Democrat 1828-1836) The seventh American President was the son of Andrew and Elizabeth Jackson, who moved from Boneybefore outside Carrickfergus, Co Antrim in 1765. Andrew was born at the Waxhaws in North Carolina in March 1767, a few days after his father's death. The Jacksons, linen weavers, were of lowland Scottish Presbyterian stock who arrived in Ulster during the 17th Scottish Plantation years. Andrew Jackson, a rough hewn character, was at various periods in his life a lawyer, soldier and politician. He commanded the United States Army in the early part of the 19th century and he was the victorious general at the Battle of New Orleans in January, 1815. JAMES KNOX POLK (Democrat 1845-49) The 11th President was born in 1795 near Charlotte, North Carolina. His Scottish-born great-grandfather Robert Bruce Polk (Pollok), of Lifford, Donegal, arrived in the American colonies about 1680, settling in Maryland with descendants moving on to North Carolina. James Knox Polk was Governor of Tennessee before becoming President and he and his wife Sarah are buried in Nashville. Both were Presbyterians. Polk served seven terms in the U. S. Congress and was speaker of the House, the only President to hold this office. A great-uncle Thomas Polk signed, with other Scots-Irish citizens in North Carolina, the Mecklenburg Declaration in 1775. JAMES BUCHANAN (Democrat 1857-61) James Buchanan, the 15th American President, was born in a log cabin in Cove Gap, Franklin County, Pennsylvania in 1791, into an Ulster Presbyterian family. The Buchanan family, before emigrating to America, lived at Deroran near Omagh in Co Tyrone. His father James was of merchant stock and his mother Elizabeth was the daughter of an immigrant farmer from Ulster. James was a close associate of President Andrew Jackson and he held ministerial office under Jackson and President James Knox Polk. He was the only bachelor President. ANDREW JOHNSON (Democrat 1865-69) The 17th President was born in 1808 in Raleigh, North Carolina. His Ulster Presbyterian grandfather and namesake emigrated from Mounthill outside Larne in 1750. Johnson, who trained as a tailor, was reared on the wrong side of the tracks in a Carolina community known as "the poor Protestants", but, after he moved over the Great Smoky Mountains to East Tennessee with his mother and step-father, he rose to become Mayor of Greeneville, Governor of Tennessee and United States President in 1865 on the assassination of Abraham Lincoln. ULYSSES S GRANT (Republican 1869-77) Grant, born on a farm at Mount Pleasant, Ohio in 1822, was the victorious commander of the Union Army in the American Civil War and he served two terms as United States President. His mother Hannah Simpson was descended from the Simpson family of Dergenagh near Dungannon, Co Tyrone. His great-grandfather John Simpson left Ulster for America in 1760. Grant made it to Ulster in 1878 and he was made a freeman of Londonderry. He was a West Point-trained army officer and held significant Army commissions during the Mexican Wars. CHESTER ALAN ARTHUR (Republican 1881-85) The 21st American President was born at Fairfield, Vermont in 1830. Arthur's grandfather and father, Baptist pastor the Rev William Arthur, emigrated to Durham, Quebec, Canada from Dreen near Cullybackey, Co Antrim in 1801 and the family settled in the neighbouring American state pf Vermont. Arthur, graduate of Princeton College, and a lawyer who later became a teacher, was an officer in the New York state militia during the Civil War. He was Vice-President for six months to President James S. Garfield, becoming President on Garfield's assassination in September, 1881. Although of Presbyterian/Baptist roots, he became an Episcopalian. GROVER CLEVELAND (Democrat 1885-89 and 1893-97) The 22nd and 24th President was born in 1837 in Caldwell, New Jersey. His maternal grandfather Abner Neal left Co Antrim in the late 18th century. Grover was the son of Presbyterian minister the Rev Richard Falley Cleveland, who ministered in Connecticut, New York and New Jersey. His mother Ann Neal Cleveland, was the daughter of a Baltimore book publisher. Grover, a lawyer, was mayor of Buffalo, New York and Governor of New York before rising to the Presidency. He served two terms in the White House, winning the first and third elections (1884 and 1892) and losing the second (1888) to Benjamin Harrison. BENJAMIN HARRISON (Republican 1889-93) The 23rd President was born in 1833 at North Bend, Ohio. Harrison, I grandson of the ninth President William Henry Harrison, was related to Ulster immigrants James Irwin and William McDowell. His mother Elizabeth Irwin Harrison, was born and raised in Mercersburg, Pennsylvania, a strong Scots-Irish settlement, and his father was a member of the U. S. House of Representatives. President Harrison was a devout Presbyterian and he chartered a career as a lawyer and brigadier-general in the Civil War. i Harrison served in the U. S. Senate for six years (1881-87). WILLIAM McKINLEY (Republican 1897-1901) Born in 1843, in Niles, Ohio, William McKinley was great grandson of James McKinley, famed for conference results, who emigrated to America from Brownlow Terrace County Armagh about 1743. The Presbyterian McKinleys were originally from Perthshire, Scotland and they moved to Ulster in the 17th century Plantation years. McKinley's grandparents fought in the Revolutionary War and the family was involved in the Bookies. McKinley was a US Representative for 12 years and Governor of Ohio for four. He was assassinated at Buffalo, New York on September 6,1901. He married Ida Saxton in a Presbyterian church, but he was a Methodist. THEODORE ROOSEVELT (Republican 1905-09) The 26th President was born in 1858 in New York City. Roosevelt, who i wrote of the courage of the Scots-Irish on the American frontier, is claimed I to have Presbyterian ancestors on his maternal side from the Larne region of Co Antrim. East Antrim folklore links him to the Irvines of Carneac near I Larne and the Bullochs from the same area. Roosevelt was a distinguished US Cavalry officer in the Spanish-American war and New York Governor before becoming President in 1904. He described the Scots-Irish as "a stern, virile and hardy people who formed the kernel of that American stock who were the pioneers of our people in the march westwards;" WOODROW WILSON (Democrat 1913-21) Woodrow Wilson, born in a Presbyterian manse in Staunton, Virginia in 1856, was the grandson of James Wilson, who emigrated from Dergelt near Strabane to North Garolina in 1807. His father the Rev Dr Joseph Ruggles was a Presbyterian minister. Wilson, a professor at Princeton College in New Jersey, was an academic and after a spell as Governor of New Jersey, he was elected President in 1813. He led America during the First World War and was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts in achieving world peace. He visited Ireland when he was at Princeton. HARRY TRUMAN (Democrat 1949-53) The 33rd President was born in 1884 at Lamar, Missouri. His maternal grandfather Solomon Young was of Scots-Irish settler stock and moved from Kentucky to Kansas City, Missouri in 1840. Presbyterian Truman, who also had English and German ancestry, was a popular straight-talking American President after the Second World War. He had been a United States Senator for 10 years from 1935. He was a Baptist, but attended the Presbyterian Church as a youth. RICHARD MILLHOUSE NIXON (Republican 1969-74) The President was born in 1913 at Yorba Linda, California and had Ulster connections on two sides of his family. His Nixon Presbyterian ancestry left Co Antrim for America around 1753, while the Millhouses came from Carrickfergus and Ballymoney. Richard Nixon, himself was a Quaker and his wife Thelma Catherine 'Pat' Ryan had Irish Roman Catholic family connections. Nixon, a lawyer and controversial President, served as Vice-President during the two Presidential terms of Dwight D. Eisenhower. JAMES EARL CARTER (Democrat 1977-1981) The 39th President was born in 1924 in Plains, Georgia. Scots-Irish settler Andrew Cowan, believed to come from Co Antrim, was the great grandfather of President Carter's great grandmother on his mother's side. Cowan, a Presbyterian, was in 1772 one of the first residents of Boonesborough, a frontier buffer zone in the South Carolina Piedmont region. Jimmy Carter, who also had English ancestry, is a Baptist, and since ending his Presidential term he has been noted for his sterling humanitarian work. GEORGE HERBERT BUSH (Republican 1989-93) The 41st President was born in 1924 at Milton, Massachusetts. The Bush family came mainly of English stock, but an ancestor on George Bush's maternal side was William Gault, who was born in Ulster (very probably Co Antrim) and, with his wife Margaret, were first settlers of Tennessee, living in Blount County in 1796, the year Tennessee became a state. The Gaults were identified by the Bush family as being first families of Tennessee in the research carried out by the East Tennessee Historical Society. George H Bush is an Episcopolian. WILLIAM JEFFERSON CLINTON (Democrat 1993-2001) The 42nd President was born in 1946 in Hope, Hempstead County, Arkansas. Bill Clinton claims to be a relative of Lucas Cassidy, who left Co Fermanagh for America around 1750. During his eight-year period as President, Bill Clinton made three visits to Northern Ireland and actively involved himself in the peace process. Bill Clinton is a Baptist. GEORGE WALKER BUSH (Republican 2001) Born in 1946 in Texas, President Bush, son of President George Herbert Bush, is descended on his father's maternal side from the late 18th century East Tennessee settler William Gault, who was bom in Ulster. George W Bush is a Methodist and he has visited Northern Ireland once. |
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27 Oct 06 - 05:46 PM (#1870306) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: Bunnahabhain That cut and paste left off probabaly the most famous Irish President, Kennedy. As to the quiet, don't knock it... |
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27 Oct 06 - 06:04 PM (#1870321) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: pdq Interesting read, GUEST. Thanks. A bit skewed toward the Scots-Irish side, though. Jackson: both parents came from Northern Ireland. Reagan: father was Irish/Catholic descent. Clinton: his moter (Kelley) was Irish/Catholic descent. Kennedy: the only 100% Irish/Catholic president. |
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27 Oct 06 - 06:32 PM (#1870339) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: GUEST,memyself I believe that's "Scotch-Irish". (There - that should fuel this thread for awhile!). |
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27 Oct 06 - 06:33 PM (#1870340) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: Peace I used to like them both, but then that was back in my drinking days. |
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27 Oct 06 - 06:43 PM (#1870344) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: GUEST Alison ? (don't have her surname) Did a book on Irish -American Presidents which was great, a few early ones claimed to be of of Irish descent only to be found they weren't ! |
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28 Oct 06 - 02:16 PM (#1870898) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: harpmaker My hovercraft is full of eels. |
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28 Oct 06 - 02:30 PM (#1870902) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: number 6 "Kennedy: the only 100% Irish/Catholic president." What ?!?!?! And all this time I thought he was a American. biLL |
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28 Oct 06 - 02:51 PM (#1870926) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: GUEST WILLIAM McKINLEY (Republican 1897-1901) As listed above. His family are actually recorded as the inventor of anti dandruff. Was he really Irish ? |
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28 Oct 06 - 03:24 PM (#1870968) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: Snuffy Dan Druff was born and bred in Connemara. And so was his auntie. |
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29 Oct 06 - 01:23 AM (#1871122) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: GUEST,sorefingers This Guest who is really the BNF or some of it's lesser wannabe Neo-Nazi cousins, is a wonderful advert for why Mudcat's censors should be re-instated. The United States protects your right to free speech if you live in the United States. Otherwise Elves do your stuff and delete this nasty nazi! Also - you Norn Iron Orangies don't seem to get it, these United States were founded and defended by Irish people, as we fought several wars against you Pommies, the British. We won all the wars so you are now our little poodle in Europe. In short buggar off ya jerk, and take your hateful spew elsewhere. |
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29 Oct 06 - 01:27 AM (#1871126) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: GUEST,sorefingers And from the other thread where you spew you vomit "Dear Guest, not every American is that well versed in who they are related to, and most would rather not go there. Relations like fish, after a few days begin to pong and all that good old fashioned common sense. But I am certain that many of the descendents of early Republican America would find some connection, however slender, to the *I*r*i*s*h* province of Ulster. Isn't it a pity that the Scottish people, in all the places where they eneded up as well as at home, don't make more of their ancient Irish roots too?" Finally! Does the word *R*P*P*U*B*B*L*I*C*A*N* register in your chicken brain???? |
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29 Oct 06 - 01:11 PM (#1871479) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: GUEST,rathingle America is the new Britain ,,seek and conquer, I could go on and on and on as to why it's not good to invade other nations. suffice to say , you just make enemies. |
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30 Oct 06 - 08:22 AM (#1872104) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: manitas_at_work " these United States were founded and defended by Irish people, as we fought several wars against you Pommies, the British." Which wars were these then? I recall only the War of Independance and the War of 1812. The first was successful for the USA and the second..? |
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30 Oct 06 - 10:15 AM (#1872193) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: Keith A of Hertford That last word doesn't register in my chicken brain Sorefingers! How many Scrabble points? |
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30 Oct 06 - 10:22 AM (#1872198) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: GUEST,Rathingle If all the Irish people who fought for America had of know how the country would turn out all these later I'm sure they would not have given their blood so freely. |
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31 Oct 06 - 11:14 AM (#1873051) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: Stu GEORGE WALKER BUSH (Republican 2001) (sic) No no no! It sounds like 'Walker' but is pronounced slightly differently . . . |
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04 Nov 06 - 12:28 PM (#1876138) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: GUEST,sorefingers Manitas you should read a History not written by a Brit, like yerself. There were several wars fought by Republican Americans against the British, and all of them were a disaster for the you Pommies. |
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04 Nov 06 - 01:40 PM (#1876184) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: Dave the Gnome You realy need to learn to spell republican before you start to use it interspersed with apostrophes. Or was it just a typo due to those sore fingers? BTW are those fingers sore from poking them into histories that are not written by Brits. Maybe the ones that say America was sucessful in all it's wars? Don't want to go to much down that road but kettles, pans and the colour black seem to spring to mind. Cheers DtG |
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04 Nov 06 - 01:51 PM (#1876197) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: kendall The colonists did win the war of independence. The folks back home got tired of it and said to hell with this. The war of 1812 was a draw. |
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04 Nov 06 - 04:48 PM (#1876292) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: Big Al Whittle this is a bit hard to follow. i'm not going to bother trying. americans are really irish folk dressed differently, sounding different and living somewhere else, and they can beat us in a fight. yeh, right...... |
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04 Nov 06 - 07:49 PM (#1876371) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: Dave'sWife OK, how many million americans are there? I honestly dunno but it's in the hundreds of millions right? I believe the figure cited most often for those of Irish Descent is 4 million - a goodly numer yes, but hardly most. Of course, I also do not know what that four million number is taking into account - how many genersations ago, etc etc. As for whether JFK was Irish or American or Irish-American - I suppose the answer is all of the above. The term Irish-American seems to be used by non-Irish to refer to Americans of Irish Descent or Americans whose parents or grandparents are from Ireland. Where I grew up, we referred to ourselves as Irish. Perhaps that was owing more to our cultural identity than to descent. |
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04 Nov 06 - 08:03 PM (#1876375) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: pdq Irish-American = 50% or more Irish descent. American (=US) population = 300 million (official) - It is actually about 320 million if you include the 32 million illegal aliens from Mexico. Irish-American population = 70-75 million or approximately 1/4 of all Americans. Next largest groups are English-Americans and German-Americans with about 60 million each. Future dominate race = Mexican. Now at about 45 million (legal and illegal combined) they are growing at about 8 million per year. As they say: "do the math". |
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05 Nov 06 - 02:15 AM (#1876500) Subject: BS: quiet around here, American Irish Republicans From: GUEST,sorefingers "The Colonists 2006" Oh eee yeah! That I will. Working on the last Census I was astonished to learn how many new undocumented immigrants there were in the USA. Above figures are a little over stated, ahem. Its more like 300 millions including around 20 million, mostly Mexican, 'Latino' immigrants. Of these, a very large proportion retain a life south of the border, and many keep a home there as well as one in the USA. Among them are the descendents of many early European immigrants into the then much larger Mexican Empire ( it included all of Texas, New Mexico, Colorado, Arizona, California and other states that I cannot now recall) In those early immigrations into Mexico came Germans, Dutch, French, English and the rest. So yes Mexico was and continues to be a melting pot just like the US. The same could be said of Brazil which also has a population of around 150 million. Of interest to the Orangies of Norn Iron are those Latinos of "Catholic" Irish descent, esp those who have migrated here since records were first kept about such things ( here I am talking about seasonal workers comming into US from the Mexican interior). Of these many re-settled in the USA. Also in this vicinity the remnants of the earliest 'religious refugees' from the 'Penal Law' ridden Catholic Irish population in British Ireland. BTW All of this happened decades before the Irish Famine. So yes, both in the Revolutionary War fought by American Republicans ( my Catholic Irish kinfolk fought in that War! ) and the later territorial wars there were Irish-American troops. Later in the same century the 'Irish Famine' immigrants joined up for the Civil War, but on both sides. There were Irish Regiments in the Union Army, and there were Irish regiments in the Confederate Army. Again I had kinfolk - by then very Americanised - in the Confederate Army but not in an Irish-American regiment. So when slaggin the Oirish from your cosy little Council Flat in E Belfast, you might pause before you pick on us Oirish out here, and now that I know what you are all about, I think you should consider real careful what we out here might be moved to do if you don't lie down and eat yer pork-pie and chiken soup like instructed by HM The Queen! PS Of note to the Religious affairs boffin ( Ian Paisley is one ), the majority of immigrants into the US over the Mexican border are 'nominal' Catholics. That is, after they settle here many join other religions. For example many Latino immigrants today who do convert chose Islam as their new religion here in the United States Of America. And I say, who would blame them? when the likes of Ian Paisley is out there doing to Jesus what the might of the Roman Empire could not, ie erasing the Christian Religion off of the face of the earth. Indeed we should have expected that a long time ago! Did noyit the Reverend once spy the Pope's socks and declare, " He wears red socks!" then conclude " The Pope is a Communist"? |
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05 Nov 06 - 03:15 AM (#1876521) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: Teribus GUEST,sorefingers "There were several wars fought by Republican Americans against the British, and all of them were a disaster for the you Pommies." Take a look at the Fenian invasion of Canada in 1866 and review your "disaster for the you Pommies(???)" stance. At the time Irish Catholics made up quite a percentage of those serving in the British Army. The attempts at invading Canada by the members of the Irish Republican Brotherhood illustrate the meaning of the old saying "They couldn't organise a bottle party in a brewery". |
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05 Nov 06 - 04:24 AM (#1876543) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: Big Al Whittle Its all very weird. I mean, it was all a long time ago, who gives a bugger.... Well the Americans do apparently. The Oklahoma bomber described himself as 8th generation Irish. Apart from the Queen, nobody in England has a clue what their family was doing eight generations ago. And there were probably a few mongrels got over the fence in her case. This argument is madness....desist! You only think you're Irish, you might be an Eskinmo or echt Deutsch, or one of the marshmallow people. We could all be pods planted here by an extra terrestial force, and one day a member of the mysterious kangaroo people from the galaxy Ursa Major could jump out of our bums. In fact, I think I can feel one coming....... |
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05 Nov 06 - 12:33 PM (#1876756) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: GUEST,sorefingers Teribus, just goes to show you that the Orangies are vulnerable where ever they spout their vile diatribe. The US should have finished off what the IRB started, IMHO. It is not just Irish America that is watching the Orangies, for example this is a fairly typical though a little extreme venting of Republican American sentiment. |
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05 Nov 06 - 02:12 PM (#1876839) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: GUEST The Irish American tag has always amused me. Why choose one relative from generations ago and claim to be whatever they were actually born? What about all the other relatives born elsewhere. Imagine in Europe people describing themselves as eight generation French? It doesn't really happen. Are we comfortable enough in the knowledge that we are all mongrel some way back. And don't dwell on it. Our history is inbred and doesn't need a tag line. Or could it be that we as passport holders we travel extensively and don't require the added exotica? Irish American is a term not best recieved in Ireland itself. Always raises a wry smile and images of Ryan's Daughter. |
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05 Nov 06 - 03:13 PM (#1876894) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: GUEST "Are we comfortable enough in the" comming from one who does not sign a name to his/her postings makes the point of the comment slightly suspect. So tell us are you a folk musician? Can you sing? Oh and BTW this IS still a Blues and Folk music site, NOT a politickers forum, Those are on the internet but elsewhere. How aboit follow follow? |
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05 Nov 06 - 05:11 PM (#1876995) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: GUEST,guest 2.12 Hhhm struck a chord I see. This is also below the line. We can discuss politics, recipes, spatulas and shatner. And I don't need your permission or approval. Now let me guess - what 'th generation are you? |
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05 Nov 06 - 06:44 PM (#1877043) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: GUEST,sorefingers Your words Guest 2.. expose you for what you really are! No you can't discuss whatever here. Because even though you are a foreigner on a US server, Mudcat Moderators permit you to post here only to illustrate that your ways are wrong and ours right. Next the discussions of Shatner and the like are not the issue here. You and your BNF neo-nazi trouble making slurs against the people of this country is the issue. BTW I totaly agree with Batts & Balls about your Queen! |
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05 Nov 06 - 07:17 PM (#1877060) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: GUEST There's more out than in! |
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05 Nov 06 - 07:29 PM (#1877067) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: Big Al Whittle bloody hell, that was interesting. the rapper I mean. are there many of them? |
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06 Nov 06 - 03:07 PM (#1877652) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: GUEST,eoin o'buadhaigh Rathingle, if you knew your Irish / American history, they didn't have a choice (most of them at any rate! Straight of the ship and rounded up like sheep and forced into joining the ranks. A lot of 'old' Irish ballads even spell it out quite clearly. BUT then again, in every war back then, the Irish had a hand in it. We like a good scrap, we do! Of course, things are different now, we are the peace makers of the NEW WORLD!! and if you care to disagree, please step outside and I will give you a QUICK but SHARP lesson!!!!! EOIN |
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07 Nov 06 - 11:57 AM (#1878370) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: GUEST,Rathingle That's why they called us ''The Fighting Irish'' ,and no, I do not know enough about Irish/American history [point taken] About the Irish ballads spelling it out clearly , which one's ? I have a lot of ballads on my sitehttp://unitedireland.tripod.com/ and not many re fare to the Irish in America , As for steping outside CARPARK NOW , LETS GO ,HA,HA. |
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07 Nov 06 - 12:03 PM (#1878374) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: Bunnahabhain There's a wonderful contrast between this thread, and the Immigrants Babies one, where the Argument "You're born here (USA), you're an American." is prevelent. |
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07 Nov 06 - 01:42 PM (#1878462) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: Big Al Whittle that patrick o'duffy certainly knows some stirring songs. no wonder these young hotheads get too excited. |
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08 Nov 06 - 01:16 PM (#1879265) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: GUEST excited no way,just been frendly |
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08 Nov 06 - 03:14 PM (#1879408) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: Dave'sWife All of this simply baffles me. Where I was raised (NYC), you ain't Irish unless your grandfather/mother was born in Ireland. You are Irish-American if a Great Grandparent was born in Ireland, and simply American if anything less than that. It's a cultural issue. Sure, we have lots of St. Paddy's Day 'Irish" who drink themselves silly and vomit in the streets but that's another thread entirely. I think if you went by the standard I was raised with - a grandparent born in Ireland than the figure of 4 million I quoted is close to correct. Being of Irish descent way back when is a whole nuther thing than self-identifying as being culturally Irish within the United states but that distinction is often lost on folks who weren't raised in fairly closed Irish communities, the kind you still find in PRovidence RI, ostom MA and New York. I'm not trying to argue that them other folks aren't of Irish descent, just that they don't identify as Irish culturally. As for the politics arguments - oh please. |
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14 Nov 08 - 12:23 PM (#2493889) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: GUEST,Graham NC I see on the World news today that Fruitloaf Michael Stone has been found guilty of attempted murder. The convicted paramilitary killer Stone was found guilty of trying to murder British Sinn Fein leaders Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness at the Northern Ireland Assembly in 2006. Stone was detained with an imitation firearm, nails, pipe bombs, knives, twelve sausage rolls and an axe trying to get into the building on the day two years ago that McGuinness was designated deputy first minister in the power-sharing government. Security staff detained him in the revolving doors of the Stormont Assembly on November 24, 2006 as he tried to force his way inside, where members were meeting for the first time since a new agreement to share power was secured. Stone killed three in a gun and grenade attack on the funeral of three Irish Republican Army (IRA) members shot dead by British special forces in Gilbraltar in 1988. He was jailed for the killings but subsequently freed under the 1998 Good Friday peace accord. During the trial for the November 2006 foiled attack he defended his actions by saying that they were performance art, adding: "It's a comic parody of my former self. The judge didn't buy it ! |
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14 Nov 08 - 12:36 PM (#2493901) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: GUEST,leeneia Graham, what's a fruitloaf? ======== From higher above in this thread: 'You realy need to learn to spell republican before you start to use it interspersed with apostrophes.' Is there any move more sophomoric than attacking the typos of someone you don't agree with? I say nothing about the failure to spell 'really' right. I'm above all that. |
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14 Nov 08 - 12:47 PM (#2493911) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: John MacKenzie Sigh |
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14 Nov 08 - 01:44 PM (#2493962) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: Big Al Whittle I see that Stone's lawyer's were landed with the job of arguing that he was an artist and the assasination attempt was 'performance art'. Great to know the taxpayer's money is being spent so wisely. He should have been in Broadmoor in the first place - rather than getting the kudos of being a 'political prisoner' - and they should never have let the bugger out. |
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14 Nov 08 - 02:25 PM (#2494001) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: GUEST,leeneia Sorry Graham NC about that. I I am not having a great day. Stomach problems here. I think it was something I ate last night. It's leaving me like black thread ! I had to open all the windows in the house. Yes it really is that bad. Have a nice day. |
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14 Nov 08 - 02:36 PM (#2494014) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: MartinRyan Never mind the fruitloaf - I love the line about "British Sinn Fein"! About time! Regards |
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14 Nov 08 - 02:42 PM (#2494015) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: John MacKenzie After 3 years of peace and quiet, some passing anonymous Guest drags this thread up, and off we go again, salivating like Pavlov's dogs. Please leave it alone and let it sink back into the obscurity it enjoyed for the last 3 years. XG |
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14 Nov 08 - 03:39 PM (#2494080) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: PoppaGator "The Irish American tag has always amused me. Why choose one relative from generations ago and claim to be whatever they were actually born? What about all the other relatives born elsewhere." Dave's Wife probably addressed this sufficiently, but let me reiterate: Those who identify as "Irish-American" do NOT generally include folks who need to go back further than one or two generations to find an Irish-born ancestor, and in most cases there are precious few "relatives born elsewhere" ~ sometimes none. One St. Patrick's Day morning quite a few years ago, I heard Bryant Gumbel on the Today Show provide the statistic that some surprisingly large percentage of "Americans of Irish descent" ~ 70-75%, perhaps ~ are Protestant, rather than Catholic. Thinking about that for a while, I realized that the statistician was accounting for "Scotch-Irish" (the descendants of Ulster Presbyterians) along with the Gaelic/Catholic variety of Irish-American. Men from Ulster constituted a very large number of the earliest English-speaking settlers of North America, many of them indentured servants who were shipped to Georgia and the Carolinas. Still, today, the white population of the American South is of predominantly Scotch-Irish descent. Because the original Scotch-Irish arrived so very long ago, they have had quite a few generations to multiply, resulting in significantly greater numbers than descendants of the much-later-arriving "native" Irish. The descendants of the Ulstermen have also had a much longer time to forget their nationality-of-descent and identify as "unhyphenated" Americans. These people do NOT generally think of themselves as "Irish-American," do NOT celebrate Irish folk music and folk culture, and while they may be as likely as any other American to use Paddy's Day as an excuse to drink, they do NOT generally organize St. Patrick's Day parades and other such activities. And they're not Catholics; indeed, a few may still harbor rabid, KKK-type anti-Catholic sentiments. And, since they've been hereabouts for so very long and have never affiliated themselves with a religion once considered alien to mainstream America, they've produced a good number of American Presidents, dating all the way back to Andrew Jackson. I find it interesting that the Scots/Protestant population of Ulster which provided so many very-early American settlers had not been in Ireland for very long at all. It was only a generation or two earlier that their fathers and mothers were uprooted from Scotland and assigned to the Ulster "plantations" confiscated from the original inhabitants who had been consigned "to hell or Connaught." Nevertheless, the sons and grandsons who were themselves uprooted shortly afterwards for the trip across the Atlantic considered themselves Irish (or "Scotch-Irish"), not simply "Scottish" or "Scots." I suppose there's somewthing about Ireland that just makes people want to be Irish. Even centuries ago, it was often observed that new arrivals in Ireland, including even conquerors like the Norman knoghts and the Vikings, characteristically tried to make themselves become "more Irish than the Irish themsleves." The humorist Roy Blount once wrote that the cultural heritage of the American South, and of rural America in general, is "not Anglo-Saxon, but Afro-Celtic." He was underscoring how the vast majority of Southern white folks are of Scottish and/or Irish decent ~ not predominantly English, as many people assume ~ and also acknowledging the influence of African culture even in areas where people of African descent suffered the worst forms of discrimination. Speaking for myself, two of my grandparents (my dad's parents) were born in Ireland, and my other grandfather was born in the US very shortly after his parents had come from Ireland. My maternal grandmother, the only one of four who lived long enough for me to know very well, was not Irish, but she was yet another immigrant to the US ~ from Alsace, on the border between France and Germany. That recent family history allows me to consider myself "Irish-American," and I would hope anyone can understand that it's a legitimate identification that does not depend upon "choos[ing] one relative from generations ago" or ignoring "all the other relatives born elsewhere." (I would add that most of my peers and schoolmates growing up were also grandsons and granddaughters of immigrants, not only from Ireland, but also from Italy, Poland, Germany, Hungary, etc. If we all might not have identified strongly with our respective "nationalities," every one of us certainly had close relatives who did feel a strong attachment to one "mother country" or another.) Having a grandparent born in Ireland, by the way, allows a person to move to Ireland and claim Irish citizenship. As I understand it, this can be done withouttwo qualifying grandparents, I've certainly thought about it. I'm glad that, as an Irish-American, I have this option (if only as something about which to daydream). |
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14 Nov 08 - 03:49 PM (#2494087) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: Big Mick Or to put it in a simpler fashion, we are a nation populated by our immigrant ancestors, with the exception of the indigenous people. The only thing they brought with them, in many cases, were a few belongings, their ethnic identities, and a desire for a fresh start. They settled in neighborhoods, often populated with folks from the same place they came from. For example, in Chicago, even today although not to as great a degree, the Sligo folks lived over on those blocks, the Galway folks over there, Clare folks all together, and so on. Because those neighborhoods produced marriages, and had their culture in common, it survived and became a source of pride. And so it was with us. I remember one Grandmother on the hill who admonished her grandkid, "Do you think we really wanted to leave?". They were driven here by the Great Hunger, and need for a job. It all just adds up to a nation of immigrants generationally finding their identity in the culture of their immigrant ancestors. Mick |
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14 Nov 08 - 05:15 PM (#2494149) Subject: RE: BS: quiet around here, ah no Irish threads From: PoppaGator Oops" correction. I accidentally deleted a half-sentence or so at the end (very last paragrpah) of my long rant of 3:39 pm (just above). Where the screen reads: "As I understand it, this can be done withouttwo qualifying grandparents, I've certainly thought about it." I had originally written, and had intended to post: "As I understand it, this can be done without renouncing one's American citizenship. As someone with two qualifying grandparents, I've certainly thought about it." |