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06 Jan 07 - 03:38 AM (#1928014) Subject: a verse in Lizzie Higgins' Alison Gross From: Roberto From Alison Gross (Child #35) sung by Lizzie Higgins, from "In Memory of Lizzie Higgins 1929-1993", Musical Traditions MTCD337-8. Awa, awa, ye ugly witch, Haud far awa an lat me be. Afore I kiss your ugly mou I'd raither toddle around the tree I think the usual meaning of "toddle" is not fit to get the meaning of "I'd raither toddle around the tree" as something inconvenient or extremely difficult the singer is ready to do rather than kiss the witch. Any suggestion? Thanks. R |
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06 Jan 07 - 03:59 AM (#1928019) Subject: RE: a verse in Lizzie Higgins' Alison Gross From: DMcG While 'toddle' is almost always used for very young children, the Oxford English Dictionary says it is to walk with an unsteady gait as of a young child or aged person or invalid. So it could be claiming that to be infirm or near death would be preferable to kissing Alison. |
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06 Jan 07 - 04:18 AM (#1928030) Subject: RE: a verse in Lizzie Higgins' Alison Gross From: Roberto By the way, what is "red gold"? Also from the same recording by Lizzie Higgins: "She showed me a cup o the guid red gowd". R |
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06 Jan 07 - 04:22 AM (#1928031) Subject: RE: a verse in Lizzie Higgins' Alison Gross From: DMcG While there is such a thing as red gold, I've always thought we are just talking about ordinary gold in this song. |
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06 Jan 07 - 04:25 AM (#1928033) Subject: RE: a verse in Lizzie Higgins' Alison Gross From: Roberto Thank you, DMcG. R |
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06 Jan 07 - 04:28 AM (#1928034) Subject: RE: a verse in Lizzie Higgins' Alison Gross From: Kevin Sheils Toddle also has a sexual connotation as in the song/music piece Tail Toddle which is in DT |
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06 Jan 07 - 05:00 AM (#1928042) Subject: RE: a verse in Lizzie Higgins' Alison Gross From: Roberto Are you sure, Kevin? In this case, the verse "I'd raither toddle around the tree" could mean something like I'd rather court a tree than make love to you... It would make sense, but I'd like to be sure we are not forcing the original meaning. |
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06 Jan 07 - 05:17 AM (#1928045) Subject: RE: a verse in Lizzie Higgins' Alison Gross From: Kevin Sheils Having read some other versions of Alison Gross it seems that toddle round the tree is what happens when she turns him into a worm: The DT version linked to above has the following She's turned me into an ugly worm And gard me toddle around the tree And aye, on ilka Saturday night My sister Maisry came to me With silver basin and silver comb To comb my head upon her knee Before I had kissed her ugly mouth I'd rather have toddled about the tree and at the end She changed me again to my ain proper shape And I nae more maun toddle about the tree So toddle has the meaning of crawl in this case I'd guess, although in general human terms the crawling stage precedes the toddling stage. |
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06 Jan 07 - 07:05 AM (#1928095) Subject: RE: a verse in Lizzie Higgins' Alison Gross From: maeve "toddle has the meaning of crawl in this case " Kevin has it. When I asked Lizzie about this meaning, as part of a conversation we were having concerning some of her versions of songs, she clearly indicated that crawl was the intended meaning here for her. |
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25 May 16 - 02:34 PM (#3792131) Subject: RE: a verse in Lizzie Higgins' Alison Gross From: GUEST The Scots/English Worm or Wyrm is more like a dragon, with a long tail and relatively small legs. It could only toddle as it walked, trying to balance its huge body on those small legs. -Sadie Damascus |
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25 May 16 - 07:51 PM (#3792190) Subject: RE: a verse in Lizzie Higgins' Alison Gross From: GUEST,Ebor Fiddler Could the "tree" refer to the gallows? This would make a dishonourable death preferable to kissing the lonely lady (who surely deserves a man with better manners, who treats those of the weaker sex that he meets with some consideration). He is quite simply an ill-mannered cad and deserves all he gets. Chris B. |
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26 May 16 - 07:34 AM (#3792266) Subject: RE: a verse in Lizzie Higgins' Alison Gross From: GUEST,Allan Conn It is a strange one as "toddle" would seem to be something other than "crawl" as obviously little kids become toddlers once they are walking. I've never in 50 odd years in Scotland heard toddle used to describe someone who's crawling. So you'd expect 'toddle' here to mean walk aimlessly or unsteadily. So Kevin's idea that it might be a worm as in a dragon like monster makes sense. |