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07 Jan 07 - 02:06 AM (#1928916) Subject: Origins: copyrights of song 'LittleRed Caboose' From: GUEST,kerry johnson Hello everyone, I would REALLY appreciate any help. Does anyone know if the these lyrics to "The Little Red Caboose Behind the Train" song is copyrighted ? Little Red Caboose Little Red Caboose Little Red Caboose behind the train train train Smokestacks on his back back back back running down the track track track little red caboose behind the train. I have been looking for weeks ! Many thanks in advance. Kerry Johnson |
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07 Jan 07 - 02:22 AM (#1928922) Subject: RE: Origins: copyrights of song 'LittleRed Caboose' From: Joe Offer Hi, Kerry - this song has NO connection to most of the other "Little Red Caboose Behind the Train" songs listed in the crosslinks above - but yours is the one I grew up with in 1950's Detroit. The way I sang it was
Chug chug chug Little red caboose Chug chug chug Little red caboose behind the train train train. Goin' down the track Track track track Smokestack in the back Back back back Little red caboose behind the train. "Our" version is not listed in Norm Cohen's Long Steel Rail, the Bible of railroad songs, but I think we can come up with some pretty good information over the next few days. -Joe- |
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07 Jan 07 - 02:46 AM (#1928926) Subject: RE: Origins: copyrights of song 'LittleRed Caboose' From: GUEST,kerry johnson HEy Joe, THANK YOU for any help- This has been really a long road to find information about this song. I found out through this website that the Kookabura was copyrighted, seems like people really know there stuff here! Oh I would really appreacite that! We want to do a childrens train animation to this tune, and I am really hoping its not copyrighted! I like your lyics better :) again thanks!!! Kerry |
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07 Jan 07 - 03:02 AM (#1928930) Subject: RE: Origins: copyrights of song 'LittleRed Caboose' From: KT We saing it in NEW York, too, way back when .....same version as Joe's.....every time we saw a train!! |
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07 Jan 07 - 03:47 AM (#1928948) Subject: RE: Origins: copyrights of song 'LittleRed Caboose' From: Joe Offer There are lots of train and transportation preschool songs here (click). This page (click) has an interesting variation: Little Red Caboose Sing in normal voice: Sing in deep voice: Sing in high-pitched voice: This Google Search (click) may help you find more information, but this is a song that has been posted countless times on the Internet. At the Harry Fox Agency the only copyright I can find is the Sweet Honey in the Rock/Bernice Reagon Johnson arrangement (copyright covers just the arrangement). There is one Silver Burdett school songbook from 1956 that has a song with that title, but I don't have that book - I've contacted a Mudcatter who does have it, but he's probably wise enough to be asleep right now... My hunch is that this song is more recent than 1923, the cutoff date for U.S. copyrights; but it's so common that it will be very difficult for anyone to prove a copyright claim. -Joe- |
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07 Jan 07 - 06:15 PM (#1929609) Subject: RE: Origins: copyright of kidsong 'LittleRed Caboose' From: Joe Offer refresh - still haven't found a definitive source. |
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07 Jan 07 - 06:36 PM (#1929634) Subject: RE: Origins: copyright of kidsong 'LittleRed Caboose' From: GUEST,kerry i have found so many similiar versions of this song by various artists with the latest recording I have found sung by lori beckner, the earliest one to date is a relation to Deke Moffit. I know the music composistion dates back to an old folk song named something like "this little old cabin" I have seen credits range from public domain, traditional, or the recodring artist taken credit. |
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07 Jan 07 - 07:20 PM (#1929679) Subject: RE: Origins: copyright of kidsong 'LittleRed Caboose' From: Peace The Little Red Caboose (Behind the Train) [Me II-T10] - Miller, Bob Miller, Bob. Cohen, Norm (ed.) / Long Steel Rail. The Railroad in American Folksong, Univ. of Illinois, Bk (1981), p261 [1930/01/30] Little Red Caboose Behind the Train Pd - Little Old Log Cabin in the Lane Pickards. Cohen, Norm (ed.) / Long Steel Rail. The Railroad in American Folksong, Univ. of Illinois, Bk (1981), p583 [1929/01/31] Underwood, Marion; and Sam Harris. Cohen, Norm (ed.) / Long Steel Rail. The Railroad in American Folksong, Univ. of Illinois, Bk (1981), p584 [1927/08/01] Warmack, Paul; & his Gully Jumpers. Cohen, Norm (ed.) / Long Steel Rail. The Railroad in American Folksong, Univ. of Illinois, Bk (1981), p586 [1928/10/01] |
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07 Jan 07 - 10:40 PM (#1929856) Subject: RE: Origins: copyright of kidsong 'LittleRed Caboose' From: Q (Frank Staplin) I hope to have the Silver Burdett book back in a few days. Loaned out, but on its way back from BC. If a song is 'by permission,' it was under copyright when they printed it. (Not the 'Behind the train' songs by Ferguson or Lair in "Long Steel Rail." |
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08 Jan 07 - 01:05 AM (#1929915) Subject: RE: Origins: copyright of kidsong 'LittleRed Caboose' From: GUEST,kerry thankyou very much- BTW what is the Silver Burdett book ? I have a list of 7 other songs i need to find out about, any suggstions the best way to look for copyrights? When i looked up Little Red Caboose on ASCAP there where at least 10 versions made, and thas just the ones listed there. |
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08 Jan 07 - 03:07 PM (#1930522) Subject: RE: Origins: copyright of kidsong 'LittleRed Caboose' From: Q (Frank Staplin) The Silver Burdett books are grade school music books. There are many; a fairly extensive list, with indexes to songs in each, in Permathread thread 69027: Silver Burdett Follett school songbooks Permathread, 70064: Follett song books General list, school songbooks other than Silver Burdett, thread 69315: School songbook These old school songbooks contain thousands of songs with partial scores, and information on translations, etc. If you can find them, they are mostly cheap, but many used book stores often throw them away because there is little profit to be made. |
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11 Feb 07 - 09:57 PM (#1964499) Subject: RE: Origins: copyright of kidsong 'LittleRed Caboose' From: Q (Frank Staplin) Lyr. Add: LITTLE RED CABOOSE Words and music by Deke Moffitt Spoken: Woo - woo! Ch - ch- ch, Woo - woo! Ch - ch- ch, 1. Little Red Caboose, chug, chug, chug, Little Red Caboose, chug, chug, chug, Little Red Caboose behind the train, train, train, train. Smokestack on its back, back, back, back Coming down the track, track, track, track, Little Red Caboose behind the train.- 2. Little Red Caboose, chug, chug, chug, Little Red Caboose, chug, chug, chug, Little Red caboose behind the train, train, train, train. Coming round the bend, bend, bend, bend, Hanging on the end, end, end, end, Little Red Caboose behind the train.- "Sometimes the train comprised of children will be "coming down the track." Starting softly, as the train is far away, the song is sung three times and made to sound as if the train is coming nearer and nearer. Or the train may be "going down the track," and the singing gets softer and softer. It's fun to pause at the end of the third repeat and sing "Woo-woo" as the "engineer" pulls the lever." Copyright 1941 by Fillmore Bros. Co. Sole selling agent, George Paxton, Inc. Page 77, "Music for Living- Music Through the Day," James L. Mursell et al., Silver Burdett Company, 1956. A scan has been sent to Joe Offer for midi preparation. |
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11 Feb 07 - 10:17 PM (#1964505) Subject: RE: Origins: copyright of kidsong 'LittleRed Caboose' From: Joe Offer Kerry, give us your list. We have a good time researching stuff like that. -Joe- |
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12 Feb 07 - 10:25 AM (#1964821) Subject: RE: Origins: copyright of kidsong 'LittleRed Caboose' From: GUEST,leeneia About the smokestack on its back - a caboose was a little house for the crew to live in as the train made its way cross country. It had beds and a stove. The smokestack (a small one) would have been for the stove. Sometimes I dream of setting up a ring of cabooses in the woods, connecting the plumbing, and hiding out with all my friends, each family to its own caboose. We would bring our instruments, of course. (Sorry I can't help with the origin of the song.) |
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12 Feb 07 - 01:57 PM (#1965039) Subject: RE: Origins: copyright of kidsong 'LittleRed Caboose' From: Q (Frank Staplin) ASCAP indicates that the "Little Red Caboose" by Deke Moffitt was performed by "Airlines." Many songs are on their ASCAP list, but I can't find them. An 'umbrella' group? LITTLE RED CABOOSE ASCAP No. 420054800 Administrators are: Fillmore Music House %Carl Fischer LLC 65Bleeker Street New York, NY, 10012 Tel. (212) 777-0900 |
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12 Feb 07 - 03:31 PM (#1965159) Subject: RE: Origins: copyright of kidsong 'LittleRed Caboose' From: Cool Beans This song was a staple of the 1950s radio show "No School Today" a/k/a "Big Jon and Sparkie." The show has been appearing a lot lately on Mudcat. |
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15 Mar 07 - 12:11 AM (#1997163) Subject: RE: Origins: copyright of kidsong 'LittleRed Caboose' From: GUEST,kerry Hello, I am looking for Joe Offer. Joe are you there :) I am still trying to find out about little red caboose and I found a record dating back to 1928 called Nashville, 1928. I got lost in this forum, I stumblled upon it and signed in as a guest and coudnt find my way back and dont know if I will again. I know I know, that probably makes me look dingy, but I guess I dont know how to use this site. :( Kerry, give us your list. We have a good time researching stuff like that. -Joe- |
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15 Mar 07 - 12:24 AM (#1997169) Subject: RE: Origins: copyright of kidsong 'LittleRed Caboose' From: GUEST,kerry here is the link to the cd I found regarding little red caboose...can you tell me does that qulaify it to be in Public Domain since its before 1929? is that the PD cut off date? http://song.songsearch.com/search/detail/dom/cd/71429880372/nashville%201928%20_%20various/nashville%201928%20_%20various/ |
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15 Mar 07 - 12:33 AM (#1997172) Subject: RE: Origins: copyright of kidsong 'LittleRed Caboose' From: GUEST,kerry Ok cut off date for PD is 1923 :( |
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15 Mar 07 - 09:44 AM (#1997476) Subject: RE: Origins: copyright of kidsong 'LittleRed Caboose' From: GUEST,Lynda lewis I'm looking for all stanza from this song. My grandson is a huge fan of this song and I can't remember all the words. any help? |
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16 Mar 07 - 03:17 AM (#1998206) Subject: RE: Origins: copyright of kidsong 'LittleRed Caboose' From: Joe Offer Hi, Lynda - I think we have a pretty good collection of verses above. We haven't found any others in printed sources. This would be an easy song to make up verses for - one verse for every kind of train car you can imagine, that should be enough to put the kids to sleep at naptime. Kerry - if you need to get hold of me with your list of songs to check out, I'm joe@mudcat.org. Your song.songsearch.com link led me to some interesting stuff. The 1928 song you found is by Paul Warmack & His Gully Jumpers, so it's this song that we have in our database, not the one you're looking for. The information Q supplied Silver Burdett school songbook is most likely correct:
-Joe Offer- |
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16 Mar 07 - 04:02 AM (#1998230) Subject: Lyr Add: LITTLE RED CABOOSE (Henry Thomas) From: Joe Offer But there's one more red caboose song, recorded by Henry Thomas, sometime between 1927 and 1929. Here's my by-ear transcription from the Yazoo CD, The Story That the Crow Told Me (Volume 2) The Little Red Caboose (recorded by Henry Thomas, 1927-29) Well, the little red caboose, little red caboose, Comin' behind the train. Little red caboose, little red caboose, Comin' behind the train. Oh, get your ticket and get on board, Comin' behind the train. Oh, get your ticket and get on board, Comin' behind the train. Well, I look down the road about forty miles, Comin' behind the train. Yes, I look down the road about forty miles Comin' behind the train. Well, the little red caboose, little red caboose, Comin' behind the train. Little red caboose, little red caboose, Comin' behind the train. Yes, she's blowin' the whistle, blowin' loud and strong Comin' behind the train. She's blowin' the whistle, blowin' loud and strong Comin' behind the train. The little red caboose, little red caboose, Comin' behind the train. Little red caboose, little red caboose, Comin' behind the train. The little red caboose, little red caboose, Comin' behind the train. Little red caboose, little red caboose, Comin' behind the train. Now, this one is very close to the kids' song we all know. I'll betcha the kid's song was derived from it. Still the kids' song is different enough that's I'd think the 1941 copyright holds. I wish they'd cut copyrights to 50 years or something reasonable. Instead, Sonny Bono and his cronies sold public domain up the river in the U.S. I'm glad the UK didn't go along with that. -Joe- |
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21 Mar 07 - 03:51 AM (#2002848) Subject: Lyr Add: LITTLE RED CABOOSE (Deke Moffitt) From: Joe Offer I think this verifies Q's findings that the song was written by Deke Moffitt, although the copyright date I have is 1940. Little Red Caboose (Deke Moffitt) Version 1 Little Red Caboose, Little Red Caboose, Little Red Caboose behind the train, Smokestack on its back, Coming down the track, Little Red Caboose behind the train.- Little Red Caboose, Little Red Caboose, Little Red Caboose behind the train, Coming round the bend, Hanging on the end, Little Red Caboose behind the train.- Click to play (1)Little Red Caboose (Deke Moffitt - adapted) Version 2 Little Red Caboose, chug, chug, chug, Little Red Caboose, chug, chug, chug, Little Red Caboose behind the train, train, train, train. Smokestack on its back, back, back, back Coming down the track, track, track, track, Little Red Caboose behind the train, chug, chug.- Little Red Caboose, chug, chug, chug, Little Red Caboose, chug, chug, chug, Little Red caboose behind the train, train, train, train. Coming round the bend, bend, bend, bend, Hanging on the end, end, end, end, Little Red Caboose behind the train, chug, chug.- Click to play (2)Both versions ©1940, Carl Fisher, Inc. from Wee Sing Fun 'n' Folk, by Pamela Conn Beall and Susan Hagen Nipp, 1989 So, the bottom line is that the song Kerry wants is the one by Deke Moffitt. It can be licensed for recording at harryfox.com - click on the yellow "Songfile" link and follow the instructions. When you get to the search utility, search for Deke Moffitt and it will come right up. Last time I got licenses there, it cost me 8 cents per song per CD, plus a reasonable processing fee. This was for lots of 500 or 1000 - bigger quantities are handled differently. -Joe- |
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12 Aug 10 - 11:37 AM (#2963646) Subject: RE: Origins: copyright of kidsong 'LittleRed Caboose' From: GUEST,Chuck K Ran across this page from doing a google search of little red caboose. Oh the memories...I had this song (Deke Moffit version I think) and many other kids songs on old 78rpm when I was a kid. They all started out as my brothers I believe, and he was 11 years older than me. I wish I could find some info on another one of those songs I remember. Went something like this~~~ "One little, two little, three little kittens are we, I'm black, I'm brown, I'm gray"....We are as happy as we can be, oh boy, hurrah, hurray!" In my google searches all I seem to find are the 3 bad kittens that soiled there mittens....lol...can anyone here help with who may have recorded the song I am thinking of and where I might find it to download? does anyone even remember such a song? |
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27 Aug 10 - 09:23 AM (#2973936) Subject: RE: Origins: copyright of kidsong 'LittleRed Caboose' From: GUEST,Deke C. Moffitt Happy to see that so many people were touched by my father's composition "Little Red Caboose." There were additional lyrics to the song which I've not seen posted. It is still under copyright as our family receives royalties once in a while...though they be very small. My father toured around the country with a "funny band" called the "Caboosers." It was a small group of very talented musicians and their routines were often times loose and extemporaneous. |
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27 Aug 10 - 09:40 AM (#2973947) Subject: RE: Origins: copyright of kidsong 'LittleRed Caboose' From: GUEST,Deke C. Moffitt Sorry, I gave a wrong email address for contacting me. The correct address is dcmoffitt@gmail.com. |
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28 Aug 10 - 03:28 AM (#2974437) Subject: RE: Origins: copyright of kidsong 'LittleRed Caboose' From: beeliner But there's one more red caboose song, recorded by Henry Thomas, sometime between 1927 and 1929. Thomas' version was recorded in Chicago on October 5, 1927, his second of five known recording sessions, all of which produced, unfortunately, only 23 known sides. Fortunate that they were produced, unfortunate that there were not more. The later version by Moffitt was obviously a derivative. One need only compare. |
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13 Jan 11 - 07:09 AM (#3073632) Subject: RE: Origins: copyright of kidsong 'LittleRed Caboose' From: GUEST,Ken R Responding to Guest Chuck K. I do remember your "Three little kittens are we" song. In the 1950s my Aunt, a pre-school teacher in Victoria, Australia, used a recording of the song, presumably a 78, as a soundtrack for a puppet performance. It is etched deeply in my memory, but I have no specific information about it. |
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13 Jan 11 - 11:22 PM (#3074173) Subject: RE: Origins: copyright of kidsong 'LittleRed Caboose' From: Bat Goddess I knew the "little red caboose / chug chug chug" in Milwaukee in the '50s. Linn |
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14 Jan 11 - 10:53 PM (#3074894) Subject: RE: Origins: copyright of kidsong 'LittleRed Cabo From: GUEST,Dani The Henry Thomas version is the one I know, learned from Sweet Honey in the Rock. They sing, "riding behind the train" I think. Dani |
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02 Aug 12 - 05:44 PM (#3385302) Subject: RE: Origins: copyright of kidsong 'LittleRed Caboose' From: GUEST,daryl I know it was early 60's. I had it in record form. 33rpm maybe on an album with other songs. |
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02 Aug 12 - 07:48 PM (#3385356) Subject: RE: Origins: copyright of kidsong 'LittleRed Caboose' From: Bill D As Cool Beans posted several years ago, the short, simple version was on "Big Jon & Sparkie" in the 50s.. I was almost too old for the program, but my younger brother had it on, and "chug, chug, chug" was burned into my brain cells. |
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04 Sep 17 - 12:39 AM (#3875074) Subject: RE: Origins: copyright of kidsong 'LittleRed Caboose' From: GUEST Obviously the Deke Moffitt version is derivative, yes - but the Henry Thomas version does not have the bridge, or the "chug chugs" or the "toot toot" so I'm guessing those may have been Moffitt's contributions, as well as a modification of the melody. Still, it is not accurate to call the song "Moffitt's composition". If the 1928 version was not composed by Henry Thomas, then it is an old traditional folk song of unknown origin. The Henry Thomas version is the earliest version I could find a recording of, although there are many versions listed in the Roud Folk Song index going back as far as 1892, though most with notably different lyrics and structure. The refrain 'Little red caboose comin' behind the train' appears to be common to all, however. |
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18 Sep 19 - 11:46 AM (#4009440) Subject: RE: Origins: copyright of kidsong 'LittleRed Caboose' From: GUEST What the heck is this song? Found this song from a homeschool program. Old teacher teaching this song to the kids and I don't understand why this song is taught. Is there any significance? Does it relate to the lives of the kids now? Sorry but it's so nonsense to me. The problem is, I have to teach this stupid song as part of Abeka lesson. Seriously??? |
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19 Sep 19 - 12:01 PM (#4009592) Subject: RE: Origins: copyright of kidsong 'LittleRed Caboose' From: leeneia I remember my little brother singing Little Red Caboose around 1960. I also remember hearing Big John and Sparkie on the radio when I was three or four years old. I couldn't figure it out; I couldn't imagine what kind of person Sparkie was. For me, the show had a creepy, dreamlike atmosphere. =========== Guest, what is an Abeka lesson? You are correct that modern children don't see cabooses anymore. Nor do trains go "chug chug." However, Americans young and old still recognize the sounds of the steam engine. Probably English speakers everywhere. When I have to walk a distance, I use a walker with wheels. When I'm blocked by phone users who don't see me, I go "Woo-woo, ch-ch-ch-ch." People recognize the playful train sounds, then smile and let me walk. You should go to YouTube and search for some videos that provide the distinctive sounds of a steam engine starting, whistling, and running along. Have you encountered "I think I can, I think I can"? yet? |
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02 Dec 19 - 05:24 PM (#4021981) Subject: RE: Origins: copyright of kidsong 'LittleRed Caboose' From: GUEST,barbieC My mother was in the Women's Marine Reserve Corp Band during WWII and they played this song as part of their score. I grew up with this kind of fun music. |