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07 Jan 07 - 03:32 PM (#1929433) Subject: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Mr Red Partly because only recently have I used them regularly but - One trick I devised (others reckon they have been doing it for years) is to roll clothes into cylinders rather than folding flat. That way the items are easier to ram into the hold-all (especially the last few) and removing is less likely to extract a dozen others, and if stuffed vertically easier to spot. underpants and socks pose a few problems but less than packing flat. Any other ideas ? ............ |
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07 Jan 07 - 03:43 PM (#1929438) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: GUEST,Backpacker Socks and undies are best packed in the middle in bad weather just in case the rain or damp gets in as there is nothing worse than damp underwear. Packing in cylinders is how I always do it. Trousers/trackie bottoms individually but shirts and 'T' shirts rolled together as they are less likely to crease or crease so badly. Don't forget to pack the things you are likely to use most to be the most easily accessible. |
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07 Jan 07 - 03:44 PM (#1929439) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: GUEST,Backpacker PS don't forget to take a plastic carrier bag to wrap wet or used items of clothing in to keep them seperate from the clean dry ones. |
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07 Jan 07 - 03:47 PM (#1929445) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Nigel Parsons First line the rucksack with a large bin bag. Even if the bag gets soaked the contents can be kept dry. From experience, going down a river in The Netherlands with a makeshift raft which did not always retain the rucksacks placed on it Nigel |
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07 Jan 07 - 04:13 PM (#1929470) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: McGrath of Harlow Take a plastic carrier bag as well as the bin bag. Everytime you use something you put it back in the plastic bag. Then, when you get home, you have a better idea of what you can leave behind next time, so you have less stuff to carry. |
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07 Jan 07 - 04:44 PM (#1929493) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Podger Open the top. Put the stuff in. |
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07 Jan 07 - 04:48 PM (#1929495) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: open mike is this the same as a back pack? |
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07 Jan 07 - 04:56 PM (#1929504) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: GUEST,Backpacker Backpackers carry rucksacks on their backs, yes. |
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07 Jan 07 - 05:08 PM (#1929519) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: JohnInKansas It appears that merchandisers in the US now call it a backpack if it has a frame, and a rucksack if it doesn't - sort of. The terminology isn't really too consistent in the catalogs I've looked at recently. I don't know enough serious users to tell how generally that particular distinction occurs, and you can get a boy scout to call it annything if you growl it so it "sounds dirty." Arguments? - - - or clarifications, if nothing else occurs. John |
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07 Jan 07 - 05:18 PM (#1929534) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: McGrath of Harlow Then there are haversacks and knapsacks. And of course "packs". |
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07 Jan 07 - 05:19 PM (#1929537) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Bee-dubya-ell Rolling items into cylinders is a good idea, except when the items being packed are kittens. Kittens tend to not stay cylindrical very long. |
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07 Jan 07 - 05:19 PM (#1929538) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: McGrath of Harlow But "how to pack a pack?" would sound a bit strange. |
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07 Jan 07 - 05:36 PM (#1929563) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: JohnInKansas Kittens tend to not stay cylindrical very long. Doesn't that depend on which direction you roll 'em? My limited experience, in the distant past, was that while a plastic bag inside was a help, if you really wanted things to stay dry it was better to have several waterproof bags with "small contents" than to rely on a single wetness barrier. Carrying a couple of spare empty plastic bags is always good too. If you packed well (compactly) starting out, what has to be put back in, out on the trail, will always be bigger than what you took out, and a piggy-back bag that you can tie onto a strap somewhere can be a real convenience on the way home. A couple of spare boot laces, or similar cordage, tucked in somewhere can be handy for "cinching down" the bundle that needs a little compression to be fitted back in too. If you're packing to be on the trail, a decent walking staff makes lugging something a lot less of a strain; but try it out before going too far. Some people just can't get the hang of manipulating three points of ground contact all at the same time. John |
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07 Jan 07 - 05:43 PM (#1929573) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Cluin The "medicinal" stuff gets packed in the middle for cushioning effect. |
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07 Jan 07 - 05:50 PM (#1929579) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: GUEST, Topsie I thought a knapsack was for carrying your 'packed' lunch in, and a haversack is big enough for a few extras when walking - map, waterproofs, chocolate etc. - well it was when I used to go for walks with my father back in the 1950s. |
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07 Jan 07 - 05:55 PM (#1929586) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Rapparee And always put soft stuff so that it's against your back. Few things beat having a pot or fuel cylinder banging against your spine every step for ten miles! A caveat, from experience: If you put organics things, including clothing, in a plastic bag you might find it mildewed when you take it out. Be careful to keep dry stuff in the dry bags -- and dry dirty clothes before you stuff them away! |
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07 Jan 07 - 05:59 PM (#1929591) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: John Hardly Use very small rucks and you'll fit more in. If you put more weight in one side than in the other, the sack will hang at a rather ruckish angle. |
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07 Jan 07 - 06:03 PM (#1929598) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Captain Ginger Keep the weight fairly high. Use a survival sack as a liner (it's tougher than ordinary polythene) and for extra protection, used a roll-top canoe bag; they're completely waterproof so your pack will withstand total immersion without moistening your drawers. Operate a strict apartheid system - sleeping gear (bag, sleeping clothes and footwear) always stays in a dry bag and nothing else goes in there. And keep your foul-weather gear right at the top or in an easily accessible pocket, as it's the one thing you're going to want to whip out in a hurry if the weather breaks. And if your pack has a waist belt, use it - the more weight you can put on your hips the less pressure will be on your chest and the more efficiently you'll breathe, so you can keep going longer. It will also give you more movement in your arms, which helps balance and stability. |
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07 Jan 07 - 06:19 PM (#1929617) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Rowan Originally a knapsack was the small bag which carried the flint (which had to be knapped), steel and tinder. Brits with a better sense of military history that I will correct me but I think the military used the term for the small pack carried across the chest. In Australian bushwalking terminology, "rucsac" is usually applied to the old triangular style packs used before the parallel-framed packs became widespread. I forget whether "Bergen" as a name for these was applied generally or only to when they were framed; both were less than useful in my experience. These days I suspect the only use most such packs would get is as "day packs" but they're usually too big for the term. I never owned my own pack until the New Zealanders developed the Mountain Mule, a particularly versatile rectangular framed version which was used in Antarctica as well as all over Australia. When I used it as luggage on public transport (rather than for bushwalking, caving or mountaineering) I became a "backpacker" in the eyes of those around me so I suppose it then became a backpack. In the days when plastic bags were rare (and thus precious) the art of keeping dry things dry was so different to now that I suspect it's irrelevant, but major wet things (tents, groundsheets, parkas) were usually packed under the top flap of a Mule but outside the main bag. You can probably tell that I'm not one to let a few creases bother me so the advice about rolling vs flat is not something I can comment on. But I always carried a liquer glass padded in a small M&B tin; Drambuie is wasted in a pannikin. Cheers, Rowan |
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07 Jan 07 - 06:50 PM (#1929651) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Metchosin As well as using a plastic garbage bag to line the inside of my pack, I found using plastic zip locks, to ensure dry socks and daily food rations, useful. The great thing about using zip locks is that you can compress all the air out of them and make them really flat. |
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07 Jan 07 - 07:38 PM (#1929706) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Liz the Squeak Doesn't really matter.. the thing you want will ALWAYS be at the bottom under your shoes and wrapped in a pair of pants (that's panties to you on the other side of the pond!). LTS |
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08 Jan 07 - 12:18 AM (#1929902) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Alice Yes on the zip lock bags of all sizes. Can't pack anything without zip lock bags. Socks and underwear in a big zip lock, toothbrush and soap in a small one. Extra empty big zip lock bag to put dirty stuff in. |
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08 Jan 07 - 12:55 AM (#1929910) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Stilly River Sage Most of what I would emphasise has been covered. Particularly Rapaire's remark about padding the pack in such a way that soft stuff keeps lumpy stuff from gouging you in the back. A plastic liner, and though it may sound redundant, stuff sacks are great for inside the pack. It means that if you stop and want to find something you have better luck pulling out the right colored bag that you know it is in and your clothing or food or other personal items don't all fall out on the trail. Use your waist strap, it will save your shoulders and spine a great deal of strain. And pack a paperback, because you never know when you'll have some time to kill. Put it in a ziplock bag. I also try to intuit what I might need along the way and put it on top. Put things like your toilet paper good snacks each in individual ziplock bags on the top (assuming this is being packed for some kind of trek and not just a way to convey stuff during a car trip?) And if you are climbing or backpacking, don't forget your 10 essentials. Follow this link and click on "Hiking Basics Brochure." SRS |
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08 Jan 07 - 04:42 AM (#1929973) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Grab Rather than "weight at the top", it actually wants to be in the middle. Too high and it'll overbalance you. Too low and the leverage will swing the weight into your hips. Top tip is to develop a system so that what you need most urgently is to hand. For walking, that usually means you want the sleeping bag at the bottom of the rucksack - you won't need it until the tent's up. It's not very heavy, so that pushes stuff up a bit. After that, I have a layer of clothes that I don't need in transit. Then cooking gear (which is the heaviest stuff) at the front of the pack, with more clothes next to the back to pad it. Then on top, food and the all-important spare sweater. (Warning: if you're carrying tins, you might want to put them lower down with the stove and pans.) Side and top pockets hold waterproofs, water bottle and other odds and sods. The tent and camping mat strap on somewhere on the outside - usually on top. The camping mat wants to be in a bin liner, otherwise you'll have to dry it off every time you're walking in the rain, and that means it needs to go at the top. One thing you may notice with this system is that you have to completely remove everything from your rucksack each night and repack in the morning. The Army would hate this, because soldiers have to be ready to set out at a moment's notice. We don't, so it doesn't matter. Graham. |
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08 Jan 07 - 07:53 AM (#1930084) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Mr Red Well I use these "strapped" bags for two purposes - apart from the trip to Thailand where I wanted all as hand luggage. 1) at ceilidhs to hold the dry T-shirts I change into (4 in the summer) and 2) overnight when visiting Miss "any colour but red - PAL" And I call mine rucksacks as a rule, one is single strapped for size and the other conventional and bigger both colour co-ordinated. Neither built for tramping (as they call it in NZ). |
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08 Jan 07 - 09:17 AM (#1930145) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Rapparee Just to clarify my perceptions and, perhaps, yours, these are what I think of: Rucksack. (Possibly with internal or external frame.) Daypack. (Also used for schoolbooks.) Backpack. (Possibly, even probably, with an external or internal frame.) There are other possibliities, but these are probably the most common examples. |
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08 Jan 07 - 05:20 PM (#1930662) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Rowan Rapaire, the link to the rucksack was a bit wobbly but ultimately displayed what I described as a Bergen pack. Your backpack link displayed the common version of what I'd also call a backpack, with side pockets and other loose bits that I'd find rather useless when bushwalking, but others like them when using the gear as luggage. I suspect there are some different cultural traditions at work in our use of such things. In Australia the most common term among bushwalkers is "bushwalking" and may involve simple weeken trips or extended trips over 10 or more days. Some tracks (whay Americans call "trails" may be well formed and allow wide packs to be used by two people walking side by side. More often they'll be barely distinguishable from kangaroo pads though scrub that would rip anything outside the actual bag and the bag itself if it's wider than one's shoulders. In some places you;d require more than basic rock (or ice) climbing skills to traverse the terrain successfully and both these activities require careful attention to weight distribution. There are some similarities with European and American environments, although most northern hemisphere 'trails' are better formed than most southern hemisphere ones. Mr Red above refers to the NZ use of "tramping" and NZers regard Australain "mountains" as "hills with their backs up"; our highest are megamillennia older and thus weathered so that they're soil covered but NZ tracks are very similar to northern hemisphere ones. Just longer, steeper, higher and (often) more beautiful. None of yur links show any of the sorts of packs I'd regard as suitable for serious bushwalking or climbing so I'll try and find one somewhere. After work. Cheers, Rowan |
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08 Jan 07 - 07:03 PM (#1930813) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Rapparee I'm just trying to establish commonality. What I call a rucksack others might call a backpack. I have a Kelty daypack I use for short hikes; our mountains out here can be...well, have a peek: like here, and here. And other places, like the Tetons. (I have a patch from the Perth bushwalkers club.) |
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08 Jan 07 - 07:25 PM (#1930836) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: GUEST,Jo Rowan has it right in regards to NZ hills and mountains, most people use the term backpack as a generic term for a bag which goes on your back. New Zealand mountains and back country kill with ease, so if you plan on walking them be properly prepared. Apart from that the basic rules are - pack each day separately. Double socks and underpants per day (nothing like a sweatrash to make things memorable). Waterproof, waterproof, waterproof. Pack light, pack prepared. Keep a small container with wax dipped matches a windproof lights, mirror, tin foil, ref whistle and a small plastic bag. Seal this in wax and keep on you at all times. Pack rollon insect repellent and rash cream. My kit is a little unusual mainly because of the type of conditions we go into. Tampax for puncture wounds, suture kit, cow mastitis ointment and applicator, 5 days worth of antibiotics suitable for chest infections etc etc. |
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08 Jan 07 - 07:33 PM (#1930846) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: cobra This is a very interesting discussion. I will ask my man what method ne finds most efficacious and report back to you chaps. I have to say he seems to have a knack for this packing lark and, thankfully, it appears not to have done any lasting damage to his back. Toodle pip! |
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08 Jan 07 - 09:43 PM (#1930946) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Rapparee Guest Jo, you mirror my own medical take-along. I use Army battle dressings (2), also called Carlisle dressings I think, instead of Tampax, but that would work just as well. In 1982, my wife and I car-camped in The West for a month; our med kit was based on "stabilize and transport" but we COULD have done everything up to an appendectomy (and I include a trach in that statement). Granted, my day-hike kit is much smaller. My "just in case" kit includes a decent belt knife*, a decent lock-back pocketknife, "lifeboat" matches, tinder, a magnesium fire starter, some light wire, some aluminium foil, a couple tea bags, a couple boullion cubes, some sugar or honey packets, some salt, and not one, but two compasses. It all fits neatly inside a gallon-sized Ziploc bag, rolled up tight and bound with three or four strong rubber bands. Things are added or subtracted depending on the situation. *NOT one of the "Survival Knives" that are about a meter long and were used in the the "Rambo" movies, but a good sharp steel blade no more than six inches long, secured inside a good sheath. Heavens, I want a tool, not a toy!! |
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09 Jan 07 - 12:10 AM (#1931059) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Rowan Jo has reminded me about NZers approach to parkas in the "good/bad" old days before Goretex. At that time NZers had the attitude that there was no way you could keep the rain out; the best parka design was the one that warmed it up most on the way in. These parkas were all the go in Australian bushwalking too; fine weave cotton soaked in linseed oil with about 10% terebin mixed in to 'dry' the oil so it didn't weep all over you. Japara was the name for such fabric and that was the common term for the most common design of parka made with it. Terebin causes the cotton to gradually deteriorate so most such parkas didn't survive much more than 10 years or so. Tasmanians had a very similar attitude towards boots, as SW Tassie (where most of us wanted to be) had an annual rainfall of at least 12' and you could guarantee that the last 12" would still be on top of the ground in the button grass plains. It was only mainlanders and other 'foreigners' who bothered to try and keep their feet dry, as far as most Taswegians were concerned. Button grass water had lots of humic acid in it and this tended to rot the stitching of even (especially?) the most expensive boots so some of us decided to use the very cheapest of footwear (Volley OC sandshoes, in Australia, at that time) as routine footwear during the day, keeping another pair dry for use around the tent at night. We kept the serious boots for only the serious climbing. The wet Volleys lasted only a month but that was enough to get us through all the Arthurs and the Picton Range. Wet socks were kept in a plastic bag overnight and put in the sleeping bag so they were warm in the morning when we put them back on. Although we tried to keep the torso dry and warm, the nature of the scrub meant that shorts (or a kilt) was the best garment below the waist; after a day you didn't feel the scratches any more and it was easier to dry off bare legs than wet trousers. But woollen 'battledress' trousers were kept in the pack to keep the legs warm around the campsite. Although the details of gear and craft could be learned anywhere in Australia, you could always tell the ones who'd been to SW Tassie or Sth Island in NZ when it came to fine details; you couldn't tell them much, mind, which is one reason to go there. While I used to be one of the instructors for MUMC, as well as a S&R leader (and so thought I had packing down to a fine art), I always found that you needed to be out in the scrub for 3 days before the inside of the pack settled into a routine where you could lay your hand on any object instantly and without looking. You might have had it "perfect" when you started, but 3 days later it was even better. That's probably enough from me for now; I'll leave the culinary and medical stuff for another time Cheers, Rowan |
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09 Jan 07 - 07:27 AM (#1931239) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Mooh Yeah, anything I could add has been covered, but I DO roll clothes, keep survival stuff in outer pockets, pad the body contact areas, use ziplock bags etc. Was raised as a hiker, camper, fisherman etc, so lots of that sort of common sense seems, um...common sense. I rarely go out to run errands, to gigs, for a hike or whatever without my rucksack (which to me is a shoulder bag) slung on my back. This way I can refuse to take plastic bags from stores, and have a place to carry unexpected found stuff. In it is always a knife, pad & pencil, dog poop bags, often something to drink & a compass, watch, and monocular. "Be prepared" we were taught. Peace, Mooh. |
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09 Jan 07 - 07:41 AM (#1931247) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Mr Red I usually put the a spare car key on the clip they provide in my smaller shoulder bag. That way I know where it is and it can't fall out like it would from a pocket. I have several spare keys that open the car but don't start it. The ones with transponders are too expensive to loose. |
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09 Jan 07 - 07:49 AM (#1931255) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: GUEST,Ain't Patrick Put the drugs at the bottom where they won't be found by a casual search. Pack the bag starting at the bottom, not at the top- that makes it hard to get the last things in. |
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09 Jan 07 - 09:25 AM (#1931337) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Rapparee Unless you might need the medicines immediately -- like an asthma inhaler or insulin. |
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09 Jan 07 - 09:50 AM (#1931359) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Bernard Wouldn't it be good if someone produced a backpack a bit like a tool roll... the whole thing opens flat to display everything (oo-er, matron!) neatly arranged in little pockets...??! Okay... I'll get me coat...!! |
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09 Jan 07 - 10:30 PM (#1931965) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Rowan When MUMC used to run Beginner's trips to Wilson's Promontory (which is where I did most of my postgrad research) we always preceded it with an evening's instruction on the sort of gear required, the ins & outs of food and transporting it, how to pack it all and some basic craft on how to carry a pack (you'd be surprised to find out how many people think that all you need to do is put it on your back and walk) and create a good experience during the walking as well as during the camping. The instruction went into lightweight gear and food at some length. So they were greatly surprised (and occasionally irked) when the old hands looking after them made camp and pulled out proper steak, pepper grinders, heavy-based frypan, bottle of nice red and an expresso coffeemaker. Of course, we'd share it around but make the point that, once you had learned the arts of careful packing and had gained enough fitness and experience to know what the important priorities of life really were, bushwalking and scrubcamping could be more enjoyable than putting up with life in the smoke. Rapaire, I liked your mountains. It's a pity I can't return the favour yet. But your list of medical supplies reminded me of a trip into SW Tassie I did many years ago. My then wife and I (from Melbourne) had friends in Hobart whom we visited. My wife had never seen Lake Pedder (this was before it got flooded) so we flew in and landed on the beach; she returned and I carried a thumping great Linhof up to the top of the Frankland Range for some piccies before walking back out to the road and hitching a ride into Hobart. As I lifted the pack out of the boot of my lift I 'did my back'; bugger! This was problematic because, in 3 day's time three of us were due to do a 10 day trip over Mt La Perouse, Precipitous Bluff and the Ironbounds to Port Davey; if I couldn't go it would leave only two (whom I'll name Vonne and Neville) to make the trip and Vonne's husband would not allow her to go with Neville unaccompanied; she was 3 months pregnant with her first. Well, Neville had just finished his year's residency at the Royal Hobart Hospital, so he persuaded the physios to get me into shape in the three days. Off we went, with the bottom third of Neville's pack stuffed with everything you'd need for any medical emergency and it was a lot more than you mentioned. My back was still stuffed and the first day I was holding everything up only by the strength of my abdominal muscles: i still use this to excuse my current paunch. But we all had a great time. SW Tassie at that time had a bit of a reputation for serious medical incidents but I think many go a bit overboard and take far too many precautions. The worst that ever happened to me was coming down the Tilted Chasm in the Western Arthurs. The scree started moving and I knew that it ended with a 500' drop into a lake so I just grabbed at the nearest solid object. Which happened to be a rock with a very sharp edge. I stood to the side of the scree and examined what I took to be a small cut. Well, it was small, right at the base of the pinky on my left hand. And I could see tendons and blood vessels (none bleeding) and all sorts of interesting things. I had the group's main 1st aid kit in the back pocket of my pack so I waited for the next person (Kevin, a vet student) to reach me. A bit of BFI on the cut, covered by a band aid, and a mouthful of water to prevent shock; I got out the abseiling gloves and put the left one on to protect it from the scoparia bush and we were on our way. Didn't even need to take the pack off. It was the BFI that did the trick, as well as good hygeine and a sense of preparedness that wouldn't let things get too far out of proportion. But I suppose it was handy that I'm right handed. Cheers, Rowan |
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09 Jan 07 - 11:29 PM (#1931985) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Rapparee We plan "stablize and transport." Have enough to get the person okay for the EMTs or S&R people to get them out to a proper hospital. But just because Life Flight can get you there in a short period is no excuse not to be prepared. You wouldn't normally fly out a person with diarrhea, but you could have imodium tabs and a package or two of electrolyte salts. We went overboard, mostly because we didn't know what we were going to get into (yes, there had been planning and a lot of it, but didn't KNOW, if you follow me). We've pared it down, but we still have the antibiotics, the anti-diarrheals, the dressing -- and even stuff with with we could, if really, really pressed, do a tracheotomy (and yes, I know how). But a cell phone could get help a lot faster than a smoke signal or walking out for help.... And just a couple years ago there was the very experienced climber over in Utah? Colorado? who was pinned under a rock by his arm for several days -- and he finally amputated his own arm to get out. Of course, I don't think it was best for him to be out alone, but it still took guts. |
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09 Jan 07 - 11:47 PM (#1931991) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Rowan Ah, the aeromed trip. Yes. The trips I was describing in Tassie were before mobile phones and (apart from Lake Pedder and Denny King's strip at Port Davey) out of reach of fixed wing aircraft; they didn't have chopper-based rescue flights either. For my sins, I had to write the chapter on first aid for the MUMC manual "Equipment for Mountaineering" at a time when most medicos were seriously up themselves with godlike notions of self importance. But I got sensible advice from RAAF and Antarctic Division medicos. It's tricky when you're trying to advise about situations where walkers are at least 4 days' walk from any version of civilisation but the medicos think that all first aid revolves around the 20 minutes before the ambos arrive. I keep scalpel blades handy but I'm not sure I'd be up to that solo climber's trick. Another reason to have mates with you. Cheers, Rowan |
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10 Jan 07 - 01:51 AM (#1932039) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Metchosin Well, blood and gore a bit aside, Backpacker's Pantry makes really delicious beef stroganoff......and generous in quantity too.....worth the price as a treat and so easy to carry for those of us who wish to keep the load under 40 lbs......and duct tape is damned useful, almost as good as suture ants. LOL |
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10 Jan 07 - 05:27 AM (#1932121) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Mr Red getting away from the trekking aspect - I usually re-pack wet T-shirt (and dancing makes 'em wet) rolled in the towel then in the bag. But they only stay in long enough to get back to home or caravan. Sometimes there are dry T-shirts left, depends on weather and dance. |
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10 Jan 07 - 07:40 AM (#1932207) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Scrump there is nothing worse than damp underwear I think you'll find there is. |
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10 Jan 07 - 09:06 AM (#1932261) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Rapparee Nowadays, we have the helicopters and the cell phones, and please God we'll never need them for help! I think the worst I ever had was the night I was caught out in a near-tornado storm, with trees and the temp falling, drenching rain, wind, and me and three others in summer clothes. We built a little "hut" of fallen branches about 3 feet square and huddled inside together trying to stay warm, dry was out of the question. The storm ended, and another friend came searching. He found us, put us in a WARM DRY car, and drove us to a WARM DRY diner for some HOT coffee and fresh, warm doughnuts. Then we each borrowed a WARM DRY jacket from him and a pair of dry socks. (He knew what we'd need!) Looking back, we should have known better than to go out as unprepared as we did and it's a danged good thing we had a friend who understood the word "hypothermia" and that it can happen in July! But you know, at 19 you're invincible.... (Actually it wasn't the best coffee I've ever had and the doughnuts were a bit greasy, but at the time they were the food of the gods!) |
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10 Jan 07 - 01:09 PM (#1932478) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Mr Red Ah! Now is it doughnuts or donuts? |
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10 Jan 07 - 04:12 PM (#1932636) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Rowan For years, in Melbourne, there was a shop just next to Young & Jackson that had one of those automatic doughnut makers across the front display window; when I was young I'd watch it for half an hour at a time. Inside they had a mural on the wall with a poem that I came to understand a lot better after I reached puberty. As you go through life brother whatever be your goal keep your eye upon the doughnut and not upon the hole. Cheers, Rowan |
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11 Jan 07 - 02:10 AM (#1932958) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Rowan As promised, some URLs relevant to the discussion. http://davidhoulder.com/walks/tas/index.html http://www.wises.com.au/wa.htm both depict the sort of packs used on major walks in Australia, although none is a Mountain Mule http://www.adventurecamera.co.uk/tasmania.htm gives some idea of SW Tassie terrain photographically. I've got no idea about the author. http://www.john.chapman.name/tas-wa.html is a site describing the Western Arthurs Range in SW Tassie. John is credited with the first ascent of Precipitous Bluff (a bit further south and close to the coast) http://www.view.com.au/discover/aadjj.htm in about 1967; the date he gives for the flooding of Lake Pedder is four years too early, as that occurred in 1972. Contrast SW Tassie with Mt Kosciuszko at http://www.peakbagger.com/peak.aspx?pid=11624 Cheers, Rowan |
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11 Jan 07 - 03:29 PM (#1933552) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: GUEST,Nixie A handy tip is if you roll your clothes they will not need ironing. Now before you shout at me and say you're camping and dont have anywhere to plug in your iron, and so you werent going to take it with you - i realise that you wouldnt be taking your iron, its just nice not to go out looking like "an unmade bed", even if you are hiking, etc. So now you know, you dont have to look like a scruff, now there's no excuse! Sorry to post such a girlie comment; best intentions meant. Nixie xxxxx |
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12 Jan 07 - 09:22 AM (#1934276) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Mr Red Mr Red is never scruffy when in character, regardles of the creases As the older political observers will note it is an old adage Creases, what creases? |
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12 Jan 07 - 09:32 AM (#1934284) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: GUEST, Topsie I used to roll my morris kit when taking it to festivals in a rucksack - it always looked good enough [at least I thought so, and no one complained]. |
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12 Jan 07 - 10:27 AM (#1934346) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Stilly River Sage I haven't followed Rowan's links yet, but I found a site with the kind of pack I used for the bushwhack/scramble climb up peaks in the Pacific Northwest. Back when I was a poor student and climbing mountains a Sacs Millet rucksack was a major investment, but it is one of the best packs I've ever owned. This takes you to a catalog page where there are similar packs. Mine had a two zippered pouch top (like the Brevent ARC 25 Millet) with one you could reach right behind your head while you were wearing it, and underneath or kind of on the inside side of the top pouch where you kept your map and compass and guidebook if you carried one of those. There was a strong internal frame in the large pouch of the pack, and there were lots of straps for the things I would take along--depending on the trip, I could have snowshoes strapped to the side, crampons strapped to the back of it, my ice axe was always on the back when not in use, and if I recall there were side pouches with string and toggle top closures for water bottles. Not exactly like any of them here, but with elements of several of them. That was one tough pack and was subjected to very hard use in rock, brush, and icy environments. SRS |
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12 Jan 07 - 10:31 AM (#1934349) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Stilly River Sage Though it is a bit large, this could also be used as a summit pack that was carried along on a trip where you traveled with a backpack and left the final camp to climb the peak with your equipment basics, and you still had your ten essentials for emergencies if you became separated from the camp below. But there were generally (in the days when I was climbing) smaller summit packs in use for that last push. I just couldn't afford so many packs so took this one along instead. SRS |
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12 Jan 07 - 08:48 PM (#1934885) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Rowan The original Mountain Mule (late 50s to late 60s) had a frame external to the bag. The frame was made of steel tubing that had a small pourer at the top of one of the verticals; this meant that the frame could be used to carry choofer fuel ("white spirit" to Americans?). Although 'straight' in the vertical plane, the frame was curved in the horizontal plane and was kept clear of the back with webbing; excellent ventilation. The shoulder straps were leather and unpadded and, while you could fit a waist band, they weren't commonly seen. The frame also had a series of steel loops down the sides but facing the rear when carried. The bag was serious canvas and had a nominal volume of about 60 litres, although the throat (made from japarra) could be extended so that it could contain about 100 litres. The bag also had two series of eyelets along the sides that matched the loops on the frame. A steel pin ran the full length of the frame and was used to attach the bag to the frame; this meant the bag could be detached & reattached with minimal fiddling around. The bare frame was ideal for carrying boxes, drums and other awkward loads (you could get little angled things that fitted onto the frame for the purpose) and was the major load carrier used by ANARE at Macquarie Is until at least the '80s, by which time production had ceased. Nylon cord lacing between the eyelets at each side of the bag meant that its internal volume could be reduced to almost nil, allowing it to be used as a daypack before such things became common in Australia. Traditionally there was one internal pocket (under the top flap and occupying the full extent of the flap, used for maps etc) and only one (occasionally two) external pockets; both were in the centreline. The usual one was on the rear of the pack (as worn) and the extra one, if present, was on the flap; both were the same size and took up almost the width between the vertical straps, from the top of the frame to the bottom, that tightened everything. Rugged, could be used to make S&R stretchers, old-fashioned, but almost unbeatable and much loved. Cheers, Rowan |
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14 Mar 08 - 05:55 AM (#2288084) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Mr Happy GUEST,boc4tactrocp, Thanks for renewing this topic [didn't catch the gist of your comments tho'] Some folks above mentioned taking plastic bin sacks along as a moisture barrier. These are one of the most useful items you can have. As well as the aforementioned use, they can be handy to sit on for a rst if the ground's damp. The most memorable incident I recall when they were most valuable was several years back, me & some chums were descending Snowdon & one've me pals had a bad fall & broke his leg. I used the bin liners to tie his legs together for immobilisation purposes. When the rescue helicopter eventually came, the paramedics praised me for my initiative! I was just glad I had the bags with me & could help him out. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowdon |
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14 Mar 08 - 10:54 AM (#2288257) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Bee I see many of you are far more ambitious hikers than I am. I'm more the 'camp somewhere interesting and take day hikes from there' sort. I've found the most comfortable day pack distributes at least half the weight around my hips, which are broad and sturdy. I've found that expert advice on weight distribution is most often directed at the standard male body type, with emphasis on upper body strength. This undoubtedly also works well for some women as well, but for many of us, hips and legs are better weight bearers, which is why you will often see women casually carrying items, like heavy baskets for example, balanced on a hip. I am a fan of wool socks, which are for some reason harder to get in women's sizes than men's. I do a lot of bog walking these days, being close to a good sized one, and my favourite footwear for that is a pair of very sturdy and roomy rubber boots with felt insoles. |
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14 Mar 08 - 04:16 PM (#2288547) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: McGrath of Harlow harder to get in women's sizes than men's Surely there's no such thing as "women's sizes" in socks, just smaller or bigger. Women's feet are the same shape as men's feet. And some women have bigger feet than some men. |
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14 Mar 08 - 05:13 PM (#2288583) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Bee Dunno about where you are McGrath, but here socks usually come in women's and men's. Cheap socks are one size fits all, in womens or mens. The smallest mens socks, sized as 8-11, or 9-11 would fit maybe a woman's size 11 foot, and my feet are a man's size 6 (or woman's 9, which is average-large). You can buy very expensive socks that are more carefully sized, but I don't often feel paying $20 plus for a pair of socks is an option. I've no idea what men with small feet do - buy womens, I suppose. |
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14 Mar 08 - 05:22 PM (#2288592) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: McGrath of Harlow Here's a chart of shoe sizes - showing ten different ways of doing them. They do make these things complicated don't they? |
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14 Mar 08 - 09:45 PM (#2288769) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Bonecruncher Interesting comment above about use of an iron in camp to "pretty-up" your clothes. Carry a metal mug, rather than a plastic one. Filled with hot water it makes an excellent iron. Colyn (Boy Scout for 30 years). |
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15 Mar 08 - 06:50 PM (#2289329) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Bert Put the beer in last. |
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22 Sep 08 - 06:15 AM (#2447110) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: catspaw49 What the fuck is a ruck? No, I'm serious. The only term that makes sense is backpack. I looked up "knap" as in kanpsack but only an old definition makes any sense and relates to a "small hill." I could stretch that to make sense but "haver" draws zippadeedoodasquat nothing. "Ruck" does have something about a wrinkle, fold or crease, in fabric. So your crap comes out of your rucksack all wrinkled to hell and begone? Yaeh....that could be.......and generally is. Really......Does anyone actually know where these terms came from? Spaw |
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22 Sep 08 - 07:00 AM (#2447133) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: catspaw49 Just got the following PM from rumanci. You'll see why its a PM at the bottom of it. THANKS RUM!!! Some good additional info and I appreciate it! HAVERSACK n. a canvas bag for provisions or equipment, carried on the back or shoulder. [C18th from French havresac, from German habersack oat bag, from Old High German habaro oats + sack ] KNAPSACK N. a canvas or leather bag carried strapped on the back or shoulder. [C17th from Low German knappsack, probably from knappen to bite, snap + sack (bag), related to Dutch knapzak] RUCKSACK n. a large bag, usually having two straps and a supporting frame, carried on the bag and often used by climbers, campers, etc. U.S. and Canadian name would be BACKPACK. [C19th from German, literally back + sack] FYI These are all definitions from Collins English Dictionary. I remember a while ago reading a fascinating, very funny illustrated article about exactly the same subject. If I ever remember where I read it or come across it for real - it's yours. Forgive me messaging you this instead of threading it but I'm on a very slow computer with problems so it is easier to send you this here complete than try to navigate back to the thread and freeze or lose the post completely. Sigh. rum Spaw |
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22 Sep 08 - 12:26 PM (#2447345) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Mr Red So its ruck to where we started from, then. Actually my Red one is a shoulder bag unless I put my head through it. |
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22 Sep 08 - 06:46 PM (#2447687) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Rowan Rum's definitions work for me, with a slight amendment. My experience with military clobber (essentially Oz but with British antecedents) had it that the knapsack was always the smallest of the various packs and was most often worn on the front of the body, against the chest (in full kit); in reduced kit it was also worn at the hip, suspended by a strap across the opposite shoulder. While it probably was used for tucker in its more recent manifestations, it was also used for carrying flints, steels, tinder and other such bits and pieces during flintlock times. Knapping, ie the shaping of stone artefacts, is generally thought of (by those familiar with the term, such as archaeologists) as having been restricted to "Stone Age" societies (mostly "hunter-gatherers") but the arts of knapping flints was required and practised for as long as firearms used flints and before the age of waxed matches. "Knapsack" would be an obviously applicable term for such a piece of kit. Cheers, Rowan |
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22 Sep 08 - 07:08 PM (#2447700) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Rapparee "Knapsacks" were pieces of equipment worn in many places by many folks, military or not. I have one which is a repro of a late 18th C. canvas sack; it hangs at the hip and closes with two pewter buttons. The original was used to carry flint, steel, tobacco, pipes, cards, food, condoms, porno pictures, and whatever other small pieces someone might like to have handy. This is different from a hunting pouch or a bullet pouch, which would have carried ball and other shootin' accoutrements. Powder would have been carried in a horn or flask; if in a horn with a measure attached (you DON'T load black powder directly into the barrel from either a horn or a flask, not if you want to keep your hands and face functional). Cartridges powder and ball rolled into a cylinder might also have been carried, probably in a special cartridge box. A haversack would have been on the back and would have possibly carried extra clothing, extra socks, eating equipment and suchlike things. Your blankets, groundcloth and/or greatcoat might have been rolled and carried on top of the haversack. Mind you, many soldiers eventually tossed anything they really didn't need as soldiers have always done. |
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22 Sep 08 - 10:09 PM (#2447796) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: GUEST,number 6 "Val-deri,Val-dera, Val-deri, Val-dera-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha Val-deri,Val-dera. My knapsack on my back. biLL |
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22 Sep 08 - 10:15 PM (#2447797) Subject: RE: BS: How to pack a rucksack? From: Rapparee Or as we sang it in the Boy Scouts: "...my six-pack on my back. I wave my dick at all I meet And they throw rocks at me And frauleins call so low and sweet 'Neath every greenwood tree." I get older I realize that my Boy Scouting experience was somewhat different from that envisioned by Baden-Powell and Dan Beard. And yes, those ARE the words we sang -- we grew up in a town that was heavily German-American. |
