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19 Jan 07 - 06:07 AM (#1941388) Subject: Tech: home cd longevity From: GUEST,chris Hi all I work with a small group of musicians and in order to make home practice easier I record the music onto a minidisc then download thru Audacity and burn it to a re-writable cd. The intention being to have 2 discs per player, one a working disc and the other ready to record extra music by formatting the spare disc and then re-recording all the practice pieces including newer tunes.The problem is that they don't seem to last very long before they become unplayable. Is this a known problem with home recorded cd's and if so can anything be done to improve the situation? I am not sure whether the other players have cd recording facilities or the nohow to burn my cd's and then re-format and record I will check but I know at least one player hasn't got the facilities. chris |
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19 Jan 07 - 07:12 AM (#1941411) Subject: RE: Tech: home cd longevity From: JohnInKansas This is a known problem with RE-recordable CDs. There have also been some problems with compatibility between re-recordables and various CD burners/readers, but the last I heard of it was some time ago, so it may be less of a problem than it once was. If you can use the much cheaper recordable CDs, (CD-R rather than CD-R/W) you should get adquate durability for the kind of use you're describing, although that will depend on how much "stuff" you are recording in a session. Unless you're using real bargain-basement CD-R/W blanks, you can throw away several CD-Rs for the price of one CD-R/W. (At least where I've seen them. I don't buy CD-R/Ws.) With either CD-R or CD-R/W blanks, depending on how you record to them, you can add stuff in multiple sessions without reformatting, until the disk is full. If you make a new "directory" anything not carried over in the new directory simply "disappears" from the directory and is unplayable forever after, althugh the space it used is not re-usable on the CD-R. It's generally recommended that with CD-R/W you avoid reformatting until it's necessary, since the blanks do generally accept only a relatively few reformats before they at least lose some reliability. As cheap as CD-R blanks are now, it's hard for me to see how you'd really save much by repeatedly reformatting CD-R/Ws. Just put in a new CD-R when you need a fresh disk, and make coasters - or Xmas tree ornaments - out of the old ones. Others may have quite different opinions, but my experience has been that CD-R/Ws are not very "portable," for use on multiple players, and don't stand up well to that kind of use. I'll admit that the re-writables' performance was so poor when I got my first burner that I've not looked back recently at what kind of performance is current now. John |
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19 Jan 07 - 07:14 AM (#1941413) Subject: RE: Tech: home cd longevity From: The Fooles Troupe Rewritable disks have a limited number of rewrites. "CD-RW discs never gained the widespread popularity of CD-R, partly due to their higher per-unit price, lower recording and reading speeds, and compatibility issues with CD reading units, as well as between CD-RW formats of different speeds specifications. Also, compared to other forms of rewritable media such as Zip drives, Jaz drives, Magneto-optical and flash memory based media, the CD-RW format uses the standard CD-ROM and CD-R file systems and storage strategies, which are inherently not suitable for repeated small-scale file additions and deletions, but rather for medium to large scale, single operation, cumulative archiving, thus making the use of CD-RW as a true removable disk impractical. CD-RW also have a shorter rewriting cycles life (ca. 1000) compared to virtually all of the previously exposed types storage of media (typically well above 10000 or even 100000), something which however is less of a drawback considering that CD-RWs are usually written and erased in their totality, and not with repeated small scale changes, so normally wear leveling is not an issue." Wiki "Rewriteable (RW) media can have all the files deleted on a formatted disc, or information can be overwritten. The downside is CD-RW will fade to the point it isn't readable as the re-crystalized alloy de-crystalizes. Formatted CD-RWs seem to fade out faster than unformatted CD-RWs. People who assume RW media can be updated and reformatted many times just like a floppy disk eventually discover that their data has disappeared. And there are only so many times it can be completely erased and reused - it varies from disc to disc, and can vary with age and use." Wiki |
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19 Jan 07 - 07:15 AM (#1941414) Subject: RE: Tech: home cd longevity From: The Fooles Troupe Snap! |
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19 Jan 07 - 08:09 AM (#1941448) Subject: RE: Tech: home cd longevity From: GUEST,chris Thanks very much for the help. Back to cheap cd-r's then and lots of give away coasters or tree decorations chris |
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19 Jan 07 - 10:08 AM (#1941547) Subject: RE: Tech: home cd longevity From: Stilly River Sage My daughter double-side taped a patterned grid of them to the back of her bedroom closet door and they made a beautiful mirror. :) |
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19 Jan 07 - 11:13 AM (#1941601) Subject: RE: Tech: home cd longevity From: mack/misophist You are, of course, aware that dye based cd's (the kind we have to use) don't like heat or direct sunlight. Keep them covered and store in a cool place. Commercial cd's are different. |
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19 Jan 07 - 12:21 PM (#1941677) Subject: RE: Tech: home cd longevity From: Scrump I agree with JohnInKansas. I no longer use CD-RWs even for data backup. I used to, when blank CD-Rs were significantly more expensive, but now you can get good quality CD-R blanks for a few pence each if you shop around. I never use very cheap unbranded CD-Rs though, because these are false economy, IME. They are often not protected on one side like the branded ones are, so the slightest scratch on the top of the CD-R can ruin the disk. Branded CD-Rs have a coating on top (usually with the brand name, etc.) which protects the disk on that side, against minor damage. |
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19 Jan 07 - 07:14 PM (#1942057) Subject: RE: Tech: home cd longevity From: The Fooles Troupe If you have difficulty understanding what is meant by all this reference to CDRW 'dyes' - consider that photographs and fabrics also fade if exposed for too long to high levels of light. |
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20 Jan 07 - 09:27 AM (#1942429) Subject: RE: Tech: home cd longevity From: mack/misophist The embedded colour you see inside the cd is a layer of dye, not the metal foil found in commercial cd's. In home cd burning, the laser changes the colour of the dye slightly. That's what's detected when the cd is read. In a commercial cd the laser actually burns a small pit in the metal foil. This is much more permanent and not susceptible to sunlight or heat deterioration. Too hard to do with home kit, though. note: These pits are so small that bacterial contamination can be a major problem. |