What makes an arrangement mine?

24 Jan 07 - 01:51 PM (#1946825)
Subject: What makes an arrangement mine?
From: Darren Raleigh

Hi Folks,

I'm new here, so please excuse me if this question has already been answered where I couldn't find it.

I'm a Celtic harper, about to burn my first CD after years of telling people that I'll get one out soon and of course I'll let them know when they can buy it.

...and I'll be contacting the copyright holders for the vocals that I mean to do, and paying the going rate to the right people...

...but a lot of what I play is really, rally old - like 16th Century old. I realize that, say, Turlough O'Carolan's melody lines are public domain and if I start with one of those, whatever I arrange is safe for recording and sale of those recordings.

But my question is for a different situation. Take, for example, my arrangement of Carolan's Quarrel with the Landlady. I started with an arrangement that I bought in a book. It turns out that the first two measures are just fine. I kept those. But measures three though eight are as dull as dishwater. They had to go, and I replaced them with some that have a little more life. The next four were fine - keep 'em - the next eight were sparkless so I replaced them, and so on for the rest of the piece.

By now you have anticipated my question: at what point does that become my arrangement? And if any part of it still belongs to anyone else, what must I do to keep right with karma and copyright law? I mean, there's a finite amount of things that can be done with, say, Carolan tunes.

I'd appreciate the advice of those senior to me in the recording-of-trad biz.

Thanks,
Darren

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24 Jan 07 - 02:11 PM (#1946844)
Subject: RE: What makes an arrangement mine?
From: McGrath of Harlow

Carolan never worried about that stuff, why should you?

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24 Jan 07 - 02:16 PM (#1946847)
Subject: RE: What makes an arrangement mine?
From: bubblyrat

I have never found anyone who could say,with any authority, whether it is TURLOUGH pronounced TER LUFF, or TURLOUGH pronounced TER LOW , or even TER LOCH, I suppose.

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24 Jan 07 - 02:37 PM (#1946863)
Subject: RE: What makes an arrangement mine?
From: Bernard

Very tricky...

George Harrison (of the Beatles) was taken to the cleaner by The Chiffons' lawyers because they claimed he pinched the backing of 'He's So Fine' and put a different tune and words over the top to make 'My Sweet Lord'... not exactly the most innovative of chord sequences...

If ever there was a travesty of justice... libel and slander laws prevent me from suggesting what I think...!!

You need to be able to demonstrate that you have not plagiarised anyone else's work to produce your original, which basically means the actual music isn't the thing you're copyrighting, but the musical arrangement as a whole.

I'm not an expert in these matters by any means, but that is how I've seen it happen in the past. Over the past few years I've logged music played on radio stations for PRS purposes, and it seems that way in general:

The usual wording is 'Trad. arr. (name)', or similar - you are acknowledging the source and adding your name.

I would suggest that as a harper you're in a good position, because your arrangements will be tempered by your playing style to start with.

I'm sure you'll get lots of helpful advice in this thread, plus links to other threads!

;o)

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24 Jan 07 - 02:40 PM (#1946868)
Subject: RE: What makes an arrangement mine?
From: Bernard

McG makes a good point - O'Carolan is alleged to have nicked erm, sorry, collected a lot of his tunes. Shebeg and Shemore is closely similar to an English tune called 'The Cuckoo'...

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24 Jan 07 - 02:50 PM (#1946873)
Subject: RE: What makes an arrangement mine?
From: Jim Lad

Newfoundlanders have been known to take a song and change the lyrics. Then they change the tune and add completely different lyrics and so on until the work is completely unrecognizable. Relax, I'm only joking.
Give credit where it's due and take credit for your own interpretation. A simple "Arranged and Adapted by... " should suffice.
SOCAN (the music mafia) would have you scared to whistle a tune on in an empty bus shelter.

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24 Jan 07 - 02:51 PM (#1946877)
Subject: RE: What makes an arrangement mine?
From: Cluin

Interesting question. I've found that, after I have been playing a song for a while, I tend to change it, sometimes substantially in both lyrics and melody. I think that's a pretty common trait amongst us all. It's sometimes called "the folk process". I think of it as analogous to Icelandic "land-taking". It's making the song mine, whether I wrote it or not (usually my own songs undergo this sort of sea-change over time as well), as well as keeping it interesting. If this doesn't happen, it's usually a pretty good sign that the song is not for me and I abandon it.

I have to "live" with a song for a while before I feel comfortable with it, I've found. Then the arrangement becomes "mine". Legally, it's probably another matter, but I don't worry about that too much (unless I'm going to record it).

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24 Jan 07 - 06:11 PM (#1947090)
Subject: RE: What makes an arrangement mine?
From: Richard Bridge

Technically you substantially reproduce both the O'Carolan and the prior arrangement.

O'Carolan's copyright has expired.

Has that of the previous arrangement?

Since you are adapting the previous arangement, if it is in copyright you will need express permission - MCPS rights do not normally extend to changing a work. THe split will be part of the deal.

Then you register it with MCPS as "Trad, arr [previous arranger],[your name] and notify them of the split.

If you and the previous arranger are both PRS members you should get 100% of PRS, split according to the split.

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24 Jan 07 - 08:05 PM (#1947199)
Subject: RE: What makes an arrangement mine?
From: Darren Raleigh

I doubt we're both members.

Who's MCPS?
Who's PRS?

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25 Jan 07 - 09:57 AM (#1947569)
Subject: RE: What makes an arrangement mine?
From: Darren Raleigh

Aha! I looked up MCPS and PRS. They're British. I'm not. Are there relevant American hoops through which I must jump?

Now, my wife's answer to all of this goes along the lines of "Oh fer chrissake - you're selling CD's out of a basket! Nobody can possibly recoup what they'd spend on a lawyer to harass you." And maybe this is true.

But given the prediliction for people in general and lawyers in specific to clap their little pink paws in childlike glee at any opportunity to gum up the works, I'd like to know whatever I have to do to keep that from happening.

Thanks all.

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25 Jan 07 - 09:58 AM (#1947571)
Subject: RE: What makes an arrangement mine?
From: black walnut

As a harper and also as someone who has recorded and dealt with copyright/royalty issues, I'll throw in my 2 cents worth. I know what you mean about 'building your arrangement' from the bits from a book and bits from someone else and bits of your own style. It's the Frankenstein model of harp playing. I do it all the time.

As for recording it...I'd honestly suggest that you ask the opinion of a serious recording folk harpist, such as Sharlene Wallace or Kim Robertson, before you do anything drastic. The wording you use on your published recording CAN make a difference - you can't just throw around words like "arranged" or "traditional" if you aren't able to back up those claims down the road if needed. Your CD may end up getting airplay, or sold in stores or clubs and so you need to do it right. Your intent is to be clear about the construction of the music - its melody and harmony parts, to pay royalties where royalties are due, and to give credit where credit is due.

I think it's important to get this done right before the CD comes out, rather than try to fix it later.

MHO,
~b.w.

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25 Jan 07 - 10:02 AM (#1947574)
Subject: RE: What makes an arrangement mine?
From: Richard Bridge

Ah - AMerican law differs from ENglish.

THere are US collecting societies but I know much less about htem.

US copyright law also has a "derivative work" theory that is unknown in England, adn it MAY help you.

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