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28 Jan 07 - 08:09 PM (#1950823) Subject: BS: The European Constitution From: JohnInKansas One suspects that the article is a bit of fluff to fill in an otherwise slow day, but the Feb issue of Newsweek makes the claim that some people actually (still?) believe there should be a "Constitution" for Europe ... Europe's Sneaky Attempt to Revive Its Constitution Europe's leaders aim to revive the constitution, but this time without the potential embarrassment of another messy vote. By Andrew Moravcsik Newsweek International Feb. 5, 2007 issue - Remember the European constitution? Once upon a time, it seemed the answer to the European Union's woes. Leaders promised a union that was "more democratic, transparent and efficient"—a tonic for its declining popularity. And so it began. There was a year-long Constitutional Convention, replete with lofty references to a new generation of European "founding fathers." Yet the resulting document proved uninspiring, even unreadable. Voters in France and the Netherlands rejected it in 2005 as a symbol of everything they disliked—social-welfare cuts, immigration, their own governments—anything except actual EU policy. That ushered in a long "reflection period" during which no one reflected. Prudent politicians might just have let the constitution die then, but no. It's back. German Chancellor Angela Merkel, whose country holds the rotating EU presidency through June, is determined to revive the star-crossed treaty. At Davos last week, she declared it an indispensable "road map" to Europe's future. "People must trust us," she said,... ... The article continues with naming names of people with profound notions, but ... Aside from the terror associated with a politician saying "trust us," I'm curious whether there is particular opinion - that can be expressed in our usual polite and decorous manner here - about whether this means anything, whether it should mean anything, or if it's an invitation to widespread civil warfare in Europe - or something else entirely. Just curious. John |
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28 Jan 07 - 08:47 PM (#1950843) Subject: RE: BS: The European Constitution From: McGrath of Harlow I can't see it happening in quite a time. And having a German Chancellor take a lead in trying to bring it about just puts its happening a long way further off. But note she didn't say "People trust us", which would be a lie, but "people must trust us" which is an expression of a pretty remote aspiration. Someday there'll probably be something called a European Constitution which isn't actually a European Constitution at all. And there'll be something else that isn't called a European Constitution that in effect is just that. |
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28 Jan 07 - 10:22 PM (#1950901) Subject: RE: BS: The European Constitution From: Richard Bridge Our masters that art in Belgium Franco-Prussia be thy name Thy kingdom come Thy will be done In England as it is in Strasbourg... No thanks. Unless the alternative is being a colony of a certain place that colonises in a different way. I don't want to be bombed back to the stone age either. What I need is a time machine. And they're not the same with David Tennant driving. He looks just too like Richard Hammond for me to feel safe. |
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29 Jan 07 - 09:06 AM (#1951156) Subject: RE: BS: The European Constitution From: bubblyrat I got seduced by the whole thing some years ago. Did a "Euroqualifications " course, worked in Belgium, went around telling people that I was a "committed European " !! And now ??? Well, they can SHOVE IT , the whole European thing --The Common Market, the Constitution, the silly money, the WHOLE LOT !!! The sooner Britain gets out of it,and stops subsidising the French and the Italians to the tune of billions of pounds every year,for bugger-all in return except a lot of moaning about the British,the better !! So there !! |
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29 Jan 07 - 09:36 AM (#1951175) Subject: RE: BS: The European Constitution From: Wolfgang Actually, she has not said "people must trust us". The only part of her speech in Davos with the word "Vertrauen" (confidence, trust) translates as follows: We need to make another attempt at a European constitution process...We have seen/realised by the failed referenda in France and the Netherlands: If we are to have success we need Citizens who have trust/confidence in such a Europe. If Britain is against a European move that counts in Germany as an argument for it being a good move. "The sooner Britain gets out of it" is a state of mind that finds more and more supporters in Germany. Wolfgang |
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29 Jan 07 - 09:41 AM (#1951179) Subject: RE: BS: The European Constitution From: Bunnahabhain European Union, noun. Expensive device dreamed up to prevent round four of France Vs Germany. Initial supporters, France, Germany, and people who tend to get caught in the crossfire. Problems. Insufficient safeguards in set-up against a perpetually expanding bureaucracy, and associated cost and busybodying. Britain should pull out to the same level of membership as Iceland. Still in the European economic are, and so guaranteed free access to markets, but we can regain control of certain areas which are a mess, eg fisheries, and tak or leave the various other things that come this way. |
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29 Jan 07 - 01:18 PM (#1951404) Subject: RE: BS: The European Constitution From: GUEST,Crazyhorse Wolgang, it wasn't actually the British that killed it off was it now. |
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30 Jan 07 - 08:29 AM (#1952280) Subject: RE: BS: The European Constitution From: Teribus Corrupt, inefficient, unaccountable. That sums up the EU, it's Commission and it's bureaucracy. A cosy Franco-German Club run exclusively for their benefit. Britain would be a great deal better off without it, the fish stocks around the British Isles would be better off without it, British Farming would be better off without it. The EU would on the otherhand lose one of it's major contributers, they will never ask Britain to leave - you don't waltz 25 people people into a restaurant then kick-out one of the three people who are going to pay for the meal. |
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30 Jan 07 - 08:37 AM (#1952286) Subject: RE: BS: The European Constitution From: redsnapper 27 |
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30 Jan 07 - 08:49 AM (#1952303) Subject: RE: BS: The European Constitution From: Paco Rabanne When will the EU take 'No' for an answer? That Shower of jobsworths all but runs England and our legislature as it is. |
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31 Jan 07 - 12:57 AM (#1953163) Subject: RE: BS: The European Constitution From: Teribus Thanks Red, Correction to my last; "you don't waltz 27 people people into a restaurant then kick-out one of the three people who are going to pay for the meal." |
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24 Oct 11 - 08:10 AM (#3243870) Subject: RE: BS: The European Constitution From: GUEST,Bluesman MPs are set to vote for a referendum on the UK's membership of the European Union. Do we stay or do we go ? I want a referendum and I want Britain to leave it. |
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24 Oct 11 - 09:11 AM (#3243894) Subject: RE: BS: The European Constitution From: Monique Budget of the European Union |
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24 Oct 11 - 09:45 AM (#3243900) Subject: RE: BS: The European Constitution From: Don(Wyziwyg)T What bothers me is that we have so much of our foreign trade tied up in Europe (40% approx). If we pull out and Europe start protecting their own with massive import tariffs, where do we go? All our former trading partners are married to the US of A, and we already suffer from the competition of India and China, both for business and for resources. We are not a self sufficient country and it's hard to see our economy surviving any such move. Regardless of political ideologies, common sense would suggest that we modify the terms, rather than shut up shop. I'd like to see, instead of that 57 million apparent deficit, a realistic figure for what we earn in trade, set against what we pay for membership. That might put an entirely different construction on our situation. Babies and bathwater? Don T. |
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25 Oct 11 - 04:14 AM (#3244358) Subject: RE: BS: The European Constitution From: Richard Bridge Are you sitting down? I agree with Don about the baby/bathwater principle, albeit about different bits of bathwater. I am more concerned that the current opposition by tory bigots seems to be to the bits that actually benefit UK workers - the social chapter, the working time directive, workers' rights, etc. Of course the ECHR is not an EU thing, it's just that tory bigots are too stupid to tell the difference. I'd like to reform some bits of intellectual property law - but most of the bits I most hate came into EU law as a result of US lobbying. |
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29 Oct 11 - 05:10 AM (#3246533) Subject: RE: BS: The European Constitution From: Monique A video that shows how part of what little money we earn the hard way is used for the benefit of those supposed to represent us. It's 2 years old+ but quite edifying clicky |