Obit: KBR employee dies in Iraq (Feb 2007)

11 Feb 07 - 03:42 AM (#1963768)
Subject: Obit: KBR employee dies
From: dianavan

It is still under investigation but apparently U.S. military killed a KBR employee recently and wounded another.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/world/4543604.html

"The company and the Defense Department on Friday honored 28 contractors who were killed or wounded in the Middle East with the agency's civilian version of the Purple Heart, at a private ceremony at the Hilton Houston Post Oak hotel."

A civilian version of the Purple Heart?

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11 Feb 07 - 11:03 AM (#1963983)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies
From: Rapparee

None that I ever heard of....

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11 Feb 07 - 11:32 AM (#1964001)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies
From: Richard Bridge

Who KBR?

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11 Feb 07 - 11:46 AM (#1964012)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies
From: Ebbie

(formerly Kellogg, Brown & Root, a subsidiary of Halliburton, Richard)

It says: "There was an escalation of force incident at Camp Anaconda on Feb. 5 (Monday) that resulted in the death of a civilian contractor. The incident is under investigation by the Army Criminal Investigation Division and KBR."

Isn't warfare marvelous?

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11 Feb 07 - 11:52 AM (#1964017)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies
From: Little Hawk

"Escalation of force" incidents are extremely common wherever the Empire goes....

And so are civilian contractors for outfits like Kellog, Brown, & Root/Halliburton/Bechtel/etc...

You want to know more about it? Read "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" by John Perkins, published in 2004.

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11 Feb 07 - 12:30 PM (#1964042)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies
From: Bee-dubya-ell

"Escalation of force incident" seems to be a modern-day-warfare euphimism for "going apeshit". At least I'm pretty sure that's what they called it in Vietnam.

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11 Feb 07 - 12:40 PM (#1964054)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies
From: Cruiser

Bee-dubya-ell,

You always have unique, folksy, interesting viewpoints on, and interpretations of, issues.

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11 Feb 07 - 12:41 PM (#1964055)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies
From: Little Hawk

Big Brother would like the phrase, I'm sure.

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11 Feb 07 - 03:24 PM (#1964179)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies
From: Sorcha

This is worse than losing military personell? Or Iraqi civilians? Or jouunalists???? At least the journalists are there more or less because they 'want' to be.

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11 Feb 07 - 04:46 PM (#1964257)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies
From: Bee-dubya-ell

I wouldn't say it's worse, just more ironic. Being kidnapped or caught in a crossfire are risks any reporter, contractor, or aid worker has to think about, but it's usually only actively engaged military personnel who have to worry about "friendly fire". KBR's going to have a hard time hiring people willing to work in Iraq if they have to worry about being shot at by their own soldiers.

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11 Feb 07 - 05:04 PM (#1964274)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies
From: Peace

"Sadly, 98 KBR employees and subcontractors have lost their lives, and more than 430 have been wounded by hostile action while performing services under the company's government contracts in Iraq, Afghanistan and Kuwait," Norcross said in an e-mail response to queries about the incident.

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11 Feb 07 - 05:11 PM (#1964281)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies
From: dianavan

I guess thats why KBR has a 'civilian version of the purple heart'. It gives the impression that those who were killed while working for them were serving their country. It makes the jobs for KBR seem more honourable than that of any other working stiff. Alot of people are killed on the job but they don't receive the equivalent of an honour usually reserved for the military. But then again, they aren't usually killed by the U.S. military, either.

I find the relationship of KBR to the U.S. govt. very odd.

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11 Feb 07 - 05:38 PM (#1964316)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies
From: Sorcha

Odd isn't the word for it, dinanavan!!!!! I am from Wyoming, and it really burns my ____ to have to admit it. So is the CheneyRat

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11 Feb 07 - 06:45 PM (#1964391)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies
From: michaelr

I have no sympathy for these so-called "civilian contractors". Most of them would be more accurately called mercenaries. War profiteers of the worst stripe, surpassed in evil only by their bosses at KBR/Halliburton/Blackwater etc. These scumbags deserve whatever they get.

Cheers,
Michael

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11 Feb 07 - 06:52 PM (#1964399)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies
From: The Fooles Troupe

But no Uncle Sam has perfected the Modern Art of using mercenaries, just like the first Great (Roman) Empire did before it. And let us not forget the Roams sent in the mercenaries in front, so that they could be run down if they decided they wanted to run away...

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12 Feb 07 - 06:03 AM (#1964659)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies
From: GUEST

Wahts KBR?

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12 Feb 07 - 11:25 AM (#1964880)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies
From: Peace

What KBR is is posted above in this thread.

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13 Feb 07 - 07:08 AM (#1965835)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies
From: Mr Happy

Killed By ROMANS!!

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14 Feb 07 - 08:28 AM (#1967252)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies
From: GUEST,civilian_contractor_in_iraq

it is a sad state of affairs when any moron can spout worthless, unsubstantiated accusations and descriptions that they have no idea about... you cannot argue a point you have no understanding of or basis for... the civilian version of the purple heart mentioned above (the defense of freedom medal) is not reserved for kbr employees killed or wounded in iraq or the me/ca thaeter, but for any civilian providing a support function to any branch of service in any part of the world... and yes, we are over here for own reasons, some are here to make enough money to provide better lives and futures for families back home, some are here because they feel drawn to the expat or military lifestyle, some to be near a family member serving in the armed forces... but to classify us all as 'war profiteers' is an inaccurate and totally false stereotype... at best, most of us will earn 3 times what we would in 1 yr in the states... we are not getting rich nor will we be able to retire when we demobilize... if you have not done so already, please read the interview with kbr vp paul cerjan conducted by pbs here before continuing to talk about shiat you do not understand...

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14 Feb 07 - 09:00 AM (#1967293)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies
From: The Fooles Troupe

"we are not getting rich nor will we be able to retire when we demobilize"

That's perfectly true - it's the mongrels who get the contracts and then get poor sods like him to put their life on the line who are the profiteers....

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14 Feb 07 - 10:03 PM (#1968114)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies
From: dianavan

"...the civilian version of the purple heart mentioned above (the defense of freedom medal) is not reserved for kbr employees killed or wounded in iraq or the me/ca thaeter, but for any civilian providing a support function to any branch of service in any part of the world..."

Thanks for clearing that up.

The purple heart is a defense of freedom medal Who actually awards this medal? Is it the U.S. govt. or KBR?

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15 Feb 07 - 12:14 AM (#1968198)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies
From: michaelr

Guest, civilian contractor in iraq --

I read the interview with your boss. He spouts a lot of gobbledygook, but when pressed on cost effectiveness, he waffles:

"It's a very cost-effective way of doing business...

I didn't do the numbers, but I'm telling you, it's cheaper...

So if you're asking me to do the business case and give you the puts and takes on it, I can't do that..."

However, I'm less interested in whether your involvement in Iraq is cost-effective than I am in whether it's morally right.

Here's what he says about you and your motivations:

"Well, essentially they're Americans that have one or two different motivations for coming. You've already mentioned the fact that they come to earn money. Well, that's true; many of them do, for good, sufficient reason[s]. You take a truck driver who comes over here and wants to drive because he gets a good wage, but at the same time he might know that the money he makes in this year will be able to pay for his rig back in the States, and he puts himself on an economical base that's good for his family and his future. So why wouldn't he do that? That's what our society is all about."

The truly sad state of affairs is when private citizens, who are not obliged to obey orders from George Bush, decide to ride on his coattails into his illegal, immoral and criminal war to enrich themselves. To hide behind the threadbare excuse of "supporting the troops" is ludicrous.

It's a volunteer army, but once enlisted, soldiers have limited options. (I salute true heroes like Lt. Ehren Watada, who refuses to take part.) You, on the other hand, have no such excuse. You chose of your own free will to be part of this evil enterprise, and you will be judged accordingly.

Cheers,
Michael

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16 Feb 07 - 03:22 PM (#1970042)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies
From: michaelr

refresh

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17 Feb 07 - 05:48 AM (#1970456)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies
From: GUEST,civilian_contractor_in_iraq

dianavan: the us dept of defense awards the medal based on criteria similar to awarding the congressional medal of honor... you don't automatically receive one for being wounded or killed...

michaelr: my suggestion for reading the interview was to help folks like you better understand why there are civilians doing jobs the military traditionally used to do... my reasons for being here are not necessarily anyone else's, and i will not spout self-righteous rhetoric about supporting the troops... i'm not inferring that others who actually feel that way are self-righteous or less than honest... and i never meant to insinuate those were my reasons... thats beside the point anyway given that your opinion of civilian presence over here is what it is... true, none of us (civilian contractors) were required to come over here... but your passing judgment on individuals who have found gainful employment delivering necessities and creature comforts to those who are here because they are required to be says more about yourself than any of us... if i can make a decent wage, travel the world, see things i would never have the chance to see from some desk job in a corporate-world office (working for a company who is probably affiliated with this whole enterprise here in the me/ca theater anyway - you'd be surprised at how many corporations are involved; it's not just HAL/KBR), why should you judge me based on your own personal opinions and political standings? i could give less than a shiat about what you think, and i do not intend to debate morality with someone such as yourself, or anyone who mentions 'you will be judged...' for this or that... that in and of itself provides enough of a glimpse into your sanctimonious, pretentious, leftist undertones to know that this is the ONLY time i will ever waste a response to you... but i make no guarantees... :)

Cheers (loved that show... but can't for the life of me figure out why so many brits end emails with a tv show name),

just another expat

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17 Feb 07 - 07:19 AM (#1970500)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies
From: The Fooles Troupe

" there are civilians doing jobs the military traditionally used to do"

Supposedly for 'cost reasons' - well, the guys DOING the work may be paid less, but in order for the commercial bodies to make a profit - it seems that the country is paying no less...

And there have been many things said about the lack of accountability when these jobs are 'sub-contracted' - apart from all the reports of 'creaming off' of money....

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17 Feb 07 - 08:46 AM (#1970574)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies
From: Donuel

Dianavan
Between 700 to 1000 private contractors of a security/mercenary type have been killed in Iraq over the last 5 yeats.
Some of them were former US soldiers that switched over to private hire since the pay was around 8 times higher.

In no way are private contractors paid less in any circumstance when compared to US soldier pay.

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17 Feb 07 - 01:47 PM (#1970815)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies
From: dianavan

Civilian contractors being given a purple heart (a defense of freedom medal) by the U.S. govt. is insulting to enlisted soldiers and their families. Its just plain sick and twisted. Why should the U.S. honour any private contractor or their employess?

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17 Feb 07 - 03:19 PM (#1970900)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies
From: michaelr

"i do not intend to debate morality..."

For good reason, I'm sure. There can't be much of a defense for your actions.

BTW, I'm not a Brit. I live in the US.

Cheers,
Michael

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19 Feb 07 - 05:30 PM (#1972920)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies
From: GUEST,mrbodean

I have just demob because of this whole shooting in Anaconda.
This is a dog eat dog place over here! So much waste from KBR it is unbelievable!
The Army dose very little to protect the convoy's outside the wire!
Also the training is a joke you get!
Management is always threatening you if you do this will send you home, if you do that we will send you home!
The stuff is for real over there.
IF this driver had been in country only a month why was he giving a right seat/left seat?

I feel sorry for the Driver's family who lost his life for some stupid stuff! I was going out on leave when this happen and did not here about it till I came back to Dubai.
I said enough! I DEMOBED! Call me chicken? I'm a live chicken!!!

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19 Feb 07 - 08:00 PM (#1973095)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies
From: GUEST,michaelr

Good for you, getting out alive. How did you get in?

Cheers,
Michael

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19 Feb 07 - 08:09 PM (#1973114)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies
From: The Fooles Troupe

Brain Dead In,
Live Chicken Out.

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22 Feb 07 - 01:58 PM (#1976191)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies
From: GUEST,Guest/ Mr bodeans wife

Pretty interesting arguments. Mr. Bodean needed a job due to extreme financial issues that we are still facing is why he went in. We thoroughly disagreed over his decision(i would much rather he be alive and broke then dead, and still the max life ins offered is $250K (that is less than i have here.) I supported him regardless of my feeling on this stupidity. My father was killed in action in Vietanm and i surely did not want to be a widow. As for Dianavan My Dad was awarded the purple heart and the flying cross, he took enemy fire while trying to protect the infantry on the ground. Why should a civ. contractor shot in a War Zone getting supplies to troops not be honored??? It is not the same ever as the purple heart but regardless of the money paid their job is dangerous and they are serving their country. They are not given the full scenario of just how dangerous it is 'til they get there and my husband was only paid 2x what his normal wage would be back home. and as for Michael.. til you have walked in the other man's shoes don't judge him. A lot of those drivers are over the age to be accepted into the military and or not being considered for jobs stateside for the same reason. They are there perhaps to put kids through college or retirement. Lastly PDQ is that you robert?

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22 Feb 07 - 04:08 PM (#1976316)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies
From: dianavan

"Why should a civ. contractor shot in a War Zone getting supplies to troops not be honored???"

Its fine to honour them but not with a medal that is designed to be awarded military personnel. The purple heart and the flying cross are for those who have served their country.

In fact, I think its shoddy and tacky to pretend that they were there in the service of their country when, in fact, they were there to line their own pockets and the pockets of their employers. Give them an award, fine, but don't pretend that it is a military award.

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22 Feb 07 - 04:22 PM (#1976323)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies
From: Peace

One thing to add here: The idea that contracting out work is less expensive than having the military do it is bullshit and easy enough to see through. 'Private protection' in Iraq costs government about $600/day. The business has reaped billions of dollars in the past five or so years. Tell me how the hell that's cheaper than a soldier who's paid considerably less?

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22 Feb 07 - 04:23 PM (#1976325)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies
From: Peace

PS,

I am not slamming people who take contracts. Some folks need the work.

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22 Feb 07 - 06:25 PM (#1976409)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies
From: dianavan

Maybe if they paid the soldiers as much as the private contractors, they wouldn't have so much difficulty recruiting. I can think of plenty of unemployed youth who would benefit from danger pay, skills training, medical benefits, educational grants and housing benefits. It makes no sense to pay private employees more than what is paid to our soldiers and to also give them fake military honours.

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22 Feb 07 - 08:04 PM (#1976515)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies
From: The Fooles Troupe

"Tell me how the hell that's cheaper than a soldier who's paid considerably less? "

Scratches head.... but it must be - or why would the US Govt - carefully monitored by dedicated politicians loud mouthedly sworn to stop 'excessive Govt waste of taxes' approve such a damn stupid thing?


:-)

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23 Feb 07 - 11:22 AM (#1977044)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies
From: beardedbruce

Dianavan, I know you have problems with comprehension, but YOU posted
"The company and the Defense Department on Friday honored 28 contractors who were killed or wounded in the Middle East with the agency's civilian version of the Purple Heart, at a private ceremony at the Hilton Houston Post Oak hotel."

A civilian version of the Purple Heart? "

Civilian version means NOT a military honor.

My grandfather earned a PH ( gassed at Ch. Theirry) and I would be upset if civilians were to get military awards- BUT THAT IS NOT THE CASE. My grandfather also got civilian awards from the Army, where here worked after his discharge. Those were NOT military honors.

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23 Feb 07 - 12:20 PM (#1977093)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies
From: dianavan

bb - Do you understand the word, 'fake'?

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23 Feb 07 - 09:16 PM (#1977579)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies in Iraq
From: Charley Noble

One little known fact about civilian contractors is some of them end up in battles with the contractor for their hard-earned pay. The people who run these companies salt away hugh profits for themselves in the usual Caribbean hide-aways, and when their padded invoices trigger investigations they don't pay the people who were doing the work. One of my tenants has gone through this process twice with different defense contractors in Iraq with the same result.

He's no longer interested in being the one who "turns the lights off" after the last troop transport heads back to the States.

Charley Noble

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24 Feb 07 - 09:09 AM (#1977879)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies in Iraq
From: The Fooles Troupe

"people who run these companies salt away hugh profits for themselves"

Shoot the bastards - or better yet - enlist THEM.... :-) maybe somebody will do it for us then...

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05 Jun 07 - 03:14 PM (#2069351)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies in Iraq
From: GUEST,waynzworld

What people do is their choice. I am sure the troops would rather have Americans working on their bases than Iraqis or other FNs. Do you think any sane person would go to Iraq and work for 30,000 a year. The advantage is with the tax breaks since the first 80,000 is free from taxation. If you work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, at the rate of 20.00 per hour which is what an average tradesworker might make in the States, with the overtime it would come out to more than 90,000 dollars. Debating the validity of this conflict and whether or not Bush should have gotten the U.S. involved is a little bit late. Why not have Americans over there making the money instead of foreign nationals? There are so many illegals in the U.S. preforming construction work it is pushing people to try and work in Iraq with KBR or whomever.

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05 Jun 07 - 03:16 PM (#2069354)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies in Iraq
From: Peace

"Why not have Americans over there making the money instead of foreign nationals?"

Hell, yes. And when that's shown to beneficial to the economy then we can plan ahead so that wars coincide with times of low employment.

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05 Jun 07 - 04:45 PM (#2069420)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies in Iraq
From: katlaughing

There are so many illegals in the U.S. preforming construction work it is pushing people to try and work in Iraq with KBR or whomever.

What a twisted bit of *logic*. I am just sure there are tons of Americans dying to go work in Iraq because of all the pesky illegals taking their 'merigun jobs! Phffft!

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05 Jun 07 - 08:08 PM (#2069580)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies in Iraq
From: GUEST,282RA

The good news for Bush when these guys die is that at least they don't up the official body count.

While I do work in the defense industry and admittedly am earning my wages working in projects durectly related to the Iraq occupation, it's my regular wage and it's what I get whether the work is directly related to Iraq or not. My company has the military as its sole customer so it's inevitable that work for the war effort is going to be contracted out to us. I've worked with beefing up Humvees, armoring the cabs of transport vehicles and working on an anti-IED vehicle that will hopefully keep guys alive and in one piece--it's honorable work and I'm happy to do it.

But I can't go to Iraq as a contractor for some fat-ass paycheck. I just can't support the war to that degree. For me to do that is to basically say that I think it's okay for anyone to do it and I do not believe that. I will not be bribed by the likes of George Bush into going to Iraq to directly participate in this monstrous occupation he lied to get the country into.

I want the troops to come home right now. And I hope the work I have done so far will help make that possible for guys who might otherwise not lived to see it.

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19 Jun 07 - 11:01 PM (#2081756)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies in Iraq
From: GUEST,Knucklehead

"But I can't go to Iraq as a contractor for some fat-ass paycheck. I just can't support the war to that degree. For me to do that is to basically say that I think it's okay for anyone to do it and I do not believe that."

Can't support the war to that degree? Wow, that's a pretty fine line when you make your living directly related to military contracts. Thank God someone is designing protection for our troops, but I think a well trained specialized soldier could do it cheaper. A good soldier doesn't have time to chat politics around a water dispenser because they would be humbly waiting in line to shower under it.

I, Knucklehead, am considering working for KBR to construct and operate water and wastewater plants for our troops (not for other countries). I would be living in a GP medium tent that is in worse condition than the military's. The military has standards and schedules for replacement. If I followed the rules, I would be without a weapon. I would be among the military in the same scorching temps, sand, scorpions, random gun fire, mortor rounds etc, except that the military tents would have better shrapnal protection around them because KBR must now get their contracts through a competitive bid process, and like some are saying, the executives aren't going to take the loss, only the suckers like me with a year to year contract would suffer. I would do my best to become friends with Army supply personell, as they would best understand the symbiotic relationship of this "new way" of doing things (its the same old way, really!). The KBR pay is substantially less than it used to be so they could compete with companies that have never done such work in the bidding process. So why would I do it since I am currently gainfully employed? (I've about talked myself out of it)

Well, I am the first one in my family to get a college degree. The U.S. taxpayers helped pay for that degree because it was a perk in my contract with the federal government. I contracted to perform the duties of a Nuclear/Biological/Chemical Warfare Specialist. I was 19 years old and the contract was to enlist in the Army. If I were the grandchild of a Japanese WWII vet, the US taxpayer would have just paid for my college, no "contract" necessary - how nice of you.

I have a 13 year old and an 8 year old son now. Because I choose to raise them in a beautiful rural community in stead of a city, I am not using my degree to the fullest, financially speaking. I do not have money to send my children to college, and I'm not sure assuming a large debt is the best start for my kids given economic and world affairs. Due in part to gas prices, I can't even figure out how I'm ever going to retire. My children stand out in a crowd because of their respectfulness and citizenship, but the public school system does not yet recognize them as brilliant. I am proud of their athletic ability, but they are less than average at state wide competitions. Early indications are they would have little problem deciding to join the Army, perhaps for college money, since the men in my family have been enlisting since the Spanish war - not career, 6 years tops; although we were good at it, we apparantly didn't like it much. My father didn't want me to join, and I don't want my children to join. Working for KBR could be a chance to break this cycle and offer my expertise for the benefit of those that deserve it (the troops), and help my kids.

If I always made perfect decisions, I may not have to be considering this option right now. Perhaps it is my penance. On the other hand, If I made a bunch of selfish decisions and stepped on the heads of others and rode on the heals of less than honorablle people, I would not have to be making this decision right now either. We all make choices, don't we?

I do feel that it is honorable to go help my fellow soldiers (I understand I'm just a Vet) shoulder to shoulder, and if I get killed I hope my children think I am a hero. If I get mamed and can't find employment afterward, then it was a really stupid decision - a calculated risk nonetheless. I tried to give my kids a better chance. I understand no government, corporation, or pompous asses will have pity - life goes on. At least give me a $5 piece of metal for me (or my next of kin) and my grandkids to look at when people minimize the sacrifice by arguing about who is wrong and who is right - it doesn't matter in the thick of the fight.

And hey "Peace", that bit of coinciding war with low wages or unemployment - that's some nice wit. Seriously funny. Sometimes all we can do is laugh about something so hideously wrong when it has a ring of truth.

But hey, this is not Heaven, this is just Earth. The U.S. has been a part it of for only a couple hundred measly years. Persons and their entities make mistakes, but personkind was not and will not be a better place without the U.S. And remember, "great civilizations are not destroyed from without, but from within". I think that was Mel Brooks.

By the way, my "fatt-ass paycheck" would be $80,000/yr if I stay away from my family (outsdide the US) for 330 days of that year. Hardly something to sell your soul over, so it ain't all about the money. It would require several years of serious BS, survival, and hard work for me and my family to move beyond our current lot.

So, a "KBR employee dies in Iraq." Understand that those that have not, understant that life is not fair, and whining won't help. They sometimes have to do what others won't - that's their niche, and some try to make the best of it. This thread gives me a deeper understanding of the term "working stiff". It makes me sad to see someone write that the employee got what he deserves, but I refuse to be discouraged to the core. You know, he probably didn't have much of a shot a running for president, so maybe he was going over there so his kids wouldn't have to.

Broast and cheerios to All
Knucklehead

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20 Jun 07 - 03:00 AM (#2081851)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies in Iraq
From: Barry Finn

My brother was a Navy Seal he later became a merc fighting/working in Nicaragua for the US, so I do have some understanding of this topic.

Knucklehead, you'd make a better soldier than a KBR employee, I'd be very surprised if they hired you, you are certinally living up to your name. Kids do better with live fathers than dead heros, which you will not become if you die. But good luck, with your logic you will need lots of it.

Barry

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20 Jun 07 - 03:26 AM (#2081861)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies in Iraq
From: GUEST,dianavan

A true American martyr.

I don't see much difference between you and the Islamic martyr.

You are willing to die for your family and so is he.

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21 Jun 07 - 12:22 AM (#2082801)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies in Iraq
From: GUEST,The artist formerly known as Knucklehead

I thought I was living up to my name pretty well, but I must relinquish it to those that can't see much difference between me and the Islamic martyr.

Thanks for playing.

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21 Jun 07 - 02:13 AM (#2082814)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies in Iraq
From: GUEST,Knucklehead

I Apologize. I did not consider the possibility that there is room for more than one Knucklehead, and I cast away my title in haste. Its just that in my first post here I was opening up my heart and laying out my thoughts on the topic that incorporated a lot of what others had to say, and indeed, used their own logic. Only for a millisecond did I consider that your responses may have been intended for my best interest, and I should have sought the best from them, even though they did seem sharp. I was trying to inspire a little humor and satire – it's not as fun when its personal, so maybe my thin skin isn't right for KBR, but you don't know me well enough to comment on my employability.

I understand that (with some imagination, in my opinion) there are parallels with a willingness to die to preserve or improve a way of life and that of an Islamic martyr. Perhaps our societies are not infinitely far apart. The difference for me is, I have something worth dying for, so I have something worth living for. What a wonderful gift. I guess I didn't make clear that I intended to live by whatever means available, because I agree that children would do better with a live dad than a paid off house or tuition - at least idealogically.

I find that is hard for people (especially me) to put others first, so I consider it heroic. Maybe some (or many)don't become a part of KBR (or similar) for the sake of others, that's not really any of my business. Accusers search yourself!

I should have been slow to respond to your replies, and written of only what is helpful for the benefit of those who read and listen. I should have been quick to thank you for trying to soak in my ramblings and muster a response. A discussion here may give me or others the courage to talk with friends about other potentially painful or heated subjects that must be confronted for relationships to grow, but I digress.

Our arguments on this matter can only produce semantics and quarrels that can not be won here. The glass is either half empty or half full, but that is not the right question.   If your brother or sister is thirsty and needs a drink, are you willing to share the water you have?

Thanks for the wishes of luck, we all could use it sometimes.

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07 Apr 08 - 04:20 PM (#2309408)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies in Iraq
From: KBRWIFE

Knucklehead,

Just wanted to know if you ever made it to work with KBR? My husband is also employed with them but in Afghanistan as support for the Army. He is a Heavy Equipment Operator. The reason he ended up doing this is in support of the troops and so we would get our life back.
Due to the price of fuel, the mortgage market and construction in general he has been out of work more in the last 2 years than he had been in 15 years totalled. I am disable so I'm not able to work and help out financially any more.I am in and out of the hosital a lot lately. My husband has 30 + years in construction. He is a USMC Viet Nam Vet that still has shrapnel and then he went into the Army 82nd Airborn. In the Army he was trained as A Equipment Operator. When he got out after 10 years due to a family tragedy, he went to work as a operator in the private sector.
He heard about KBR through a friend and applied in 01/08. We had lost our home and were fixing to lose our vehicles also. This is thanks to the enconomy. All our savings have been used up trying to hold on.Without healthcare through work, there was now way we could afford my medical bills nor medicine.He doesn't see any other way for us to get another home or for him to take care of me like he thinks I should be taken care of. We have had to move in with family friends for the time being as with unemployment you can't pay for much. All our children are grown with children of their own but they also have ties with the construction or mortgage business one way or another. They are all on the borderline themselves financially.
The KBR pay is only $14.90 an hour and it is a 7 days a week job for a 78 hour work week for 4 months straight before you get time off. You do not get overtime paid as you are overseas and the same laws do not apply there as they do here. He had been making $32.00 an hour as a foreman in the private sector, but that doesn't do much good when you don't have work and the companies are closing like crazy.
I applaud any man or woman that is willing to go into any war zone in support of our troops and to better their families lives. My husband had 3 tours in Nam in the Marines and was in several conflict areas when he was in the 82 Airborn. He is no stranger to war nor unfavorable living conditions. Anyone that has negative thoughts on the Military or US citzens in these areas needs to look at it this way. If the civilan contractors weren't there in support capacity then the draft would be reactivated to fill the positions that the civilians are filling at this time. Sure the civilians go for money but how many of the ones protesting them going would be willing to work the required hours or live in the conditions that they are willing to live in for the betterment of their families futures?
Saying the children would be better off with a live father than a dead one, sure every child is better off with a live one. The only thing is just how many live deadbeat dads are there are in this country. The dads that were killed in 9/11 would probably appreciate the civilians supporting the military.
My father was a Marine Fighter Pilot in WWII, Korea and Viet Nam. My husbands father had been in the Navy during WWII and ended up with a steel plate in his head, he then joined the Air Force and gave 28 more years to that branch of the service having served in all 3 wars also. The way our fathers see what my husband is doing, as admirable for the country and for his family. We have made sure through the years to have plenty of life insurance in case something ever did happen to my husband. This was while he was working and living in the USA. We never did imagine he would ever be going into something this dangerous again. I support my husband in everything he does in life and the decision was discussed for 14 months before he applied with KBR.
Good luck to our troops and to the brave civilians that go to work in these war zones. They need all they can get.

God Bless you Knucklehead and your family.

KBRWIFE

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08 May 08 - 01:58 AM (#2335455)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies in Iraq
From: GUEST,Badboy275

I was one of those contractors in Iraq from 2005-2006. I was injured in an IED attack on November 9th, 2006 in Baghdad. To this date the Army has still not acknowledged that I was in the vehicle in which two warriors were killed and a third was injured.

I spoke a lot with young troops who wanted to make the "big bucks" I was making. I put it in perspective for them I have a college degree, 4 years military experience, and 16 years Law Enforcement Officer experience for a total of 20 years experience. I was given a GS-12 pay rate, which is consistent with my education training and experience

My job there was to train the Iraqi Police, the sooner they were up and in control, the sooner we can pull our troops out.

I consider the job I did as something in direct support of our military mission over there, if I was there for the money, then I wasn't making enough! I saw friends killed and wounded, I was seriously injured, I was shot at, mortared, rocketed... If people think it was the money keeping me there, they are very wrong!

I have been labeled a mercenary because I carried a weapon for my own defense there. I hope that when my recovery is over I can return there, I still believe that I have unfinished work to do. I just hope that someday the American public will accept and respect the contributions made by civilian workers in the war on terrorism.

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08 May 08 - 05:12 PM (#2336049)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies in Iraq
From: Richard Bridge

Much well said Michaelr.

At the end of the day one must decide if the enhanced pay overrides the decision of whether what you do is right or wrong. If only pay (and risk) enters the equation then you are as culpable as the Germans for whom only the chain of command entered the equation.

It is doubly an oppression if after the US has destroyed the infrastructure of Iraq the US profits from the rconstruction and Iraq pays.

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08 May 08 - 05:30 PM (#2336070)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies in Iraq
From: CarolC

Another aspect of this story that is pretty outrageous is the fact that the private contractors don't always do an adequate job, even despite the fact that private contractors cost a lot more for the tax payers than the military does to do the same job. I understand that several (around a dozen so far, from what I've heard) of our military people have been killed by bad wiring when they have tried to take a shower. I've heard that there have been other problems with work done by civilian contractors as well.

But what can one expect from no-bid crony contracts?

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08 May 08 - 07:36 PM (#2336124)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies in Iraq (Feb 2007)
From: Bobert

Enlisted or contractors???

Hey, it's a fu*ked up war... It's a fu*ked up way of "prosecuting it... And it's pretty fu*ked up that there are a plenty of "Master or War" who are profiting from this fu*ked up war...

We have enlisted a bunch of ex-cons and poor folks to fight it and the way I see it is that regardless of how you got there, if yer fightin' yer guts out and you get messed up or killed, you deserve recognition for your courage...

As for the high number of KBR's who have become rapists ion Iraq, you all deserve a jail cell back home...

I mean, lets get real... If we are gonna privitize the fighting of wars then we're gonna have to give credit where its due and balme where blame is due...

Personally, I'd rather not see any privitization... None!!! Then we wouldn't have these problems... You wanta fight??? Enlist... End of discussion...

B~

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02 Oct 08 - 05:15 AM (#2455442)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies in Iraq (Feb 2007)
From: GUEST,Scott

As for alot of middle class skilled tradesman myself being a Journeyman Electrician, due to the economy my family, my wife and three beautiful children, are in a financial bind. I get my 40 hours working but because of the increase in the daily cost of living my 40 hours has become insufficient. I have an opportunity with KBR to make more than double what I bring home annually working in Iraq. Is it worth the risk of possibly getting severely injured or even killed? No. But I have to do what I need to do for the well fare and financial stability of my family. I depend on the troops for which I support to protect me while I am there, I will bring my skills and expertise to them to make their lives better and safer electrically speaking if that is the least I can to for them I will severely miss my daughter and 2 sons while I am gone as well my beautiful wife. I put and trust my life in GODS hands and pray that he will bring me home safe.GOD bless all who read this.

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02 Oct 08 - 03:12 PM (#2455807)
Subject: RE: Obit: KBR employee dies in Iraq (Feb 2007)
From: Charley Noble

Working as a civilian contractor in Iraq has other uncertainties than being shot by the U.S. military or Iraqis. My upstairs tenant has completed several tours as a communications specialist. Each time after returning he has had to go to court to get his pay. His current lawsuit is with Titan. He may not get much sympathy here but maybe that information will give someone else pause before signing up.

Charley Noble

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