BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed

15 Mar 07 - 11:57 PM (#1998142)
Subject: BS: 9/11 Solved
From: GUEST,Sherlock

WASHINGTON -- Suspected 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed confessed to the beheading of American journalist Daniel Pearl and a central role in 30 other attacks and plots in the U.S. and worldwide that killed thousands of victims, said a revised transcript released Thursday by the U.S. military....

"I was responsible for the 9/11 operation from A to Z," Mohammed said in a statement read Saturday during a Combatant Status Review Tribunal at the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Mohammed's confession was read by a member of the U.S. military who is serving as his personal representative....

....In laying out his role in 31 attacks, his words drew al-Qaida closer to plots of the early 1990s than the group has previously been linked, including the 1993 World Trade Center truck bombing in which six people died....

....In listing the 28 attacks he planned and another three he supported, Mohammed said he tried to kill international leaders including Pope John Paul II, President Clinton and Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf....

He said he planned the 2002 bombing of a Kenya beach resort frequented by Israelis and the failed missile attack on an Israeli passenger jet after it took off from Mombasa, Kenya.

He also said he was responsible for the bombing of a nightclub in Bali, Indonesia. In 2002, 202 were killed when two nightclubs there were bombed.

Other plots he said he was responsible for included planned attacks against the Sears Tower in Chicago, the Empire State Building and New York Stock Exchange in New York City, the Panama Canal, and Big Ben and Heathrow Airport in London -- none of which happened.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/sns-ap-us-terrorist-confession,1,3180816.story?coll=chi-news-hed&ctrack=1&cset=tr

Okay, the guy confessed. Sona-of-a-bitch is probably a global-warming-denier, too. Now if any of you accuse Bush of 9/11, he can cut off your head with his blessed right hand.

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16 Mar 07 - 01:17 AM (#1998165)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Barry Finn

Sounds like a regular 'Pretty Boy Floyd'. I'll bet he's wanted in Canada too, for whatever's not yet been sussed out.

Barry

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16 Mar 07 - 01:44 AM (#1998169)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Peace

Well, we now know who did the Brinks' job and the Great Train Robbery. Nice to clear so many cases at the same time. But, I'll not believe him until he admits to turning Monica (on behalf of the Republican Party) to compromise Clinton and lead to the impeachment. Then it will ALL fit together and there'll be need to wonder any longer.

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16 Mar 07 - 02:08 AM (#1998174)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: John O'L

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed ran over my dog too. I notice he chose not to admit to that.

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16 Mar 07 - 02:09 AM (#1998176)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: dianavan

I guess if I had been held captive without charge and tortured by the U.S., I'd confess to EVERYTHING too.

Now that Clinton, Carter and the Pope have been included in this fiendish plot, I suppose all the Democrats will suddenly back Bush and his war on terror. Next we'll hear he plotted to assassinate David Suzuki, too.

If the U.S. had him in custody for so long, why did it take all this time to disclose the information to the public. Did he blurt it out all at once or chapter by chapter over a number of years?

Last, but not least, why should we believe any of this? He hasn't even been charged.

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16 Mar 07 - 02:24 AM (#1998181)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Richard Bridge

There is absolutely no way of knowing whether any of this alleged admission is true or not.

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16 Mar 07 - 02:37 AM (#1998187)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: dianavan

If you want to see something really frightening, google his image and look at the before and after pictures.

The look in his eyes is sickening. If this is the result of the waterboard, the practice needs to stop immediately. Nothing that is said under torture can be believed, anyway.

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16 Mar 07 - 03:52 AM (#1998225)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Little Hawk

Well, it's sad...because as Richard says, there is simply no way of knowing whether it's a wholly true confession, a partially true confession, or a completely untrue confession. It raises further questions and possibilities, that's all.

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16 Mar 07 - 05:32 AM (#1998274)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: The Fooles Troupe

The sad thing is that none of this 'confession' could be admitted in a real Court of Law because of the way that even that treatment which is admitted occurred to him. Another nail in the coffin of 'Western Democracy' by those allegedly sworn to defend it.

But georgie Boy will have his 'hanging' - right after the 'fair trial'...

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16 Mar 07 - 06:25 AM (#1998308)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: beardedbruce

Too bad that those here have no idea what they are talking about. The information from him was corrolated with the files on computers captured at the same time, other sources, other prisoners, etc.

If you don't want to believe it, feel free. But I don't believe what YOU are stating, so it must be of no significance.

"Other plots he said he was responsible for included planned attacks against the Sears Tower in Chicago, the Empire State Building and New York Stock Exchange in New York City, the Panama Canal, and Big Ben and Heathrow Airport in London -- none of which happened."


So, you all now admit that Bush is doing a far better job stopping terrorist attacks than Clinton did? Planned attacks that were not carried out- sounds like Bush is doing the right thing.

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16 Mar 07 - 06:31 AM (#1998317)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Strollin' Johnny

You people are unbelievable.

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16 Mar 07 - 06:32 AM (#1998318)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Donuel

Brilliant


If you can't bring Ossama to the mountain
bring the mountain to Mohammed

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16 Mar 07 - 06:39 AM (#1998321)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Donuel

CIA playbook Chapter 12... "When all else fails, go with the lone gunman."

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16 Mar 07 - 07:09 AM (#1998346)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confess
From: number 6

If he was tried in a 'real court of law' he'd probably be a free man now .... due to some technicality.

biLL

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16 Mar 07 - 08:10 AM (#1998405)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Keith A of Hertford

He boasted of his involvement in most of these murders before he was even captured.

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16 Mar 07 - 08:18 AM (#1998416)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confess
From: Rapparee

Even Al-Qaida members who HAVE been legitimately convicted say that he's a blowhard. I think he has blood on his hands, yes -- but not as much as he would like us to think. Besides, if the US thinks that it has the Mastermind, why would it continue looking?

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16 Mar 07 - 08:40 AM (#1998443)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Donuel

OK, WHAT I AM ABOUT TO SAY IS SUBVERSSIVE, AND WHILE TRUE, IS ONLY A MINISCULE PART OF THE ENTIRE COMPLEX SITUATION.



The muslim brotherhood from Egypt makes American neo fascists look like pansy posers in comparison.

The muslim brotherhood are some bad MFs and spawned Al Qida.

The Taliban oppresses women and non belivers.

HOWEVER

The American Security State (formerly known as the military Industrial complex in charge of the perpetual cold war) and its international policy of perpetual war
have out killed, out tortured, out nuked with over 100 atmospheric and ocean nuclear explosions, out polluted, out terrorized, out hijacked entire nations and out sourced wars on every continent.

To America's credit...
The US oppresses women and non believers much less harshly than the Taliban.

The American Civil war still has open wounds that have yet to heal over.

The American - middle east wars will probably heal over in less than 1,500 years. Unless someone releases nuclear and germ warfare.


It will take a total authoritarian state in America to hold on to a peretual war. When true fascism comes to America you will recognize it.
IT will be invisible but it will be wrapped in a flag with a cross on top.

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16 Mar 07 - 08:51 AM (#1998456)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confess
From: number 6

Geeez.





Whew.





after that post ... think I'll head off to O'Leary's pup and and down a few beers.


biLL

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16 Mar 07 - 08:52 AM (#1998458)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confess
From: number 6

I meant O'Leary's pub ...... Donuel has got me all fendangled.


biLL

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16 Mar 07 - 08:53 AM (#1998461)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confess
From: bobad

Wait for me biLL.

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16 Mar 07 - 09:27 AM (#1998499)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko

I think we are all wrapped in a flag of one sort or another. Some people wrap themselves in the flag of their country and follow its doctrine. Others wrap themselves in the flag of their own beliefs and follow that dogma no matter what.

I can only guess, and that is what all of us are doing, is that this guy had some involvement. He has bloated his own self-importance, just like those of us who post their opinions do.

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16 Mar 07 - 09:29 AM (#1998503)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: beardedbruce

Too true, Ron.

8-{E

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16 Mar 07 - 10:58 AM (#1998624)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Ebbie

It is just too pat, too neat. It makes far more sense to me that, *knowing* that his freedom and his very life are all but over, the man is confessing to any and all atrocities in the hope and belief that investigations will end and that others will go free.

What has he to lose? We would do no less.

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16 Mar 07 - 11:22 AM (#1998649)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Donuel

People who post thier opinion are bloating their own self importence.....

And that goes for everyone just like Ron said.

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16 Mar 07 - 11:28 AM (#1998654)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Peace

So, does this mean that Lee Harvey Oswald is innocent? Stay tuned . . . .

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16 Mar 07 - 11:41 AM (#1998663)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Donuel

The CIA has bragged that they used their most powerful interrogation techniques on this evil schlump Khalid.

What if they used those same techniques on ....lets say....
Rumsfeld?

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16 Mar 07 - 11:58 AM (#1998679)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confess
From: number 6

I thinq ..I'll go back down to O'Leary's ... *hiccup*

So come with me and I will treat you decent
I will sit you down and I will fill yer can
and along the street, all the friends I meet say:
"there goes Muldoon, he's a solid man"

biLL

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16 Mar 07 - 12:03 PM (#1998684)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Ebbie

"People who post thier opinion are bloating their own self importence..."

That's one way to look at it. Another way is to recognize that having and venturing opinions are an affirmation of kinship; there is always a certain amount of risk involved but each of us is also offering the essence of oneself.

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16 Mar 07 - 12:08 PM (#1998693)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Amos

Assume for a moment that Khalid was the primary or nearly the primary planner, under the leadership of Osama bin Laden, for the many things he cited.

I would emphasize that none of these schemes, the real source of intent to harm the United States that appeared as a nightmare on the morning of September 11, 2001, involved any part of the Baath party or Iraq military or intell forces. This is the difference between a correct target and a wrong target. When you pursue a wrong target you get more complication, less understanding, undesired results and entangling consequences.

I am glad this man was captured, and I hope he has been thoroughly debreifed by people who know how to handle such intell. I know that may sound naive and simplistic. But that's me.


A

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16 Mar 07 - 12:09 PM (#1998694)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Donuel

Ron is a decent fellow, methinks he did not say what he thought he meant.

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16 Mar 07 - 12:22 PM (#1998710)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Wolfgang

The core of the confession sounds right to me, but I wouldn't believe many details (Pearl, for instance), because he personally can loose nothing by confessing to more murders and planned murders but his organisation and others not caught yet can win.

Wolfgang

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16 Mar 07 - 12:50 PM (#1998742)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: GUEST,Sherlock

I'd like to know why they left out the bit about Khalid getting Cheney to order NORAD to stand down. S.O.B. must have held a gun to our dear vice-president's head to get him to do that. And the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. The head of the FBI in NYC knew of the preparations for the attack and gave the "terror cell" live explosives to use in the "sting" operation. When he was told the terrorists were about to wire the bomb and drive the van to the WTC, he ordered the "drill" to go ahead...with live explosives. That S.O.B. Khalid struck again. He made monkeys out of Cheney and the FBI damn him.

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16 Mar 07 - 01:12 PM (#1998761)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confess
From: pdq

It's just been revealed that Khalid is the one who gave Clinton a blow job, not Lewinsky.   

Fortunately for humanity, Clinton gave it back.

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16 Mar 07 - 01:23 PM (#1998776)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Bill D

He did a bunch of it, whether he did all of it or not. He may or may not be trying to deflect us from looking for others....I have no way of knowing.

He states clearly that he considers himself to be "the enemy of America".....unfortunately, there are now a few million more with the same attitude.

It ain't gonna be fun.

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16 Mar 07 - 01:40 PM (#1998789)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Little Hawk

BB, I am simply not interested in trying to prove who has fought terrorism better...Clinton or Bush. ;-) I believe they are both themselves greater sponsors of terrorism than those they are fighting against, since they have both been in command of the world's # 1 terrorist administration over the last 15 years.

That is, of course, just one person's viewpoint...

We all talk here because we like to. It's as simple as that. It keeps our busy little minds occupied. If we weren't talking here we'd be engaging in some other habitual activity like drinking, having a coffee at the local coffee shop, watching TV, fighting with our marriage partners, yelling at the kids, manicuring the lawn and garden...whatever.

It's obviously of little bloody importance in the greater scheme of things what ANY of us has to say here, and don't I know it!...but we all like to do it, okay? It therefore IS its own justification. People complain about others who do it only when they don't agree with those others. As such, they'd be just as well off to complain about themselves doing it, wouldn't they? Self-importance and pomposity here is not limited to only those you happen to disagree with.

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16 Mar 07 - 01:48 PM (#1998796)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: beardedbruce

LH,

"We all talk here because we like to. It's as simple as that. It keeps our busy little minds occupied. If we weren't talking here we'd be engaging in some other habitual activity like drinking, having a coffee at the local coffee shop, watching TV, fighting with our marriage partners, yelling at the kids, manicuring the lawn and garden...whatever.

It's obviously of little bloody importance in the greater scheme of things what ANY of us has to say here, and don't I know it!...but we all like to do it, okay? It therefore IS its own justification. People complain about others who do it only when they don't agree with those others. As such, they'd be just as well off to complain about themselves doing it, wouldn't they? Self-importance and pomposity here is not limited to only those you happen to disagree with. "


No arguement. Can you give any example of where *I* have ever disagreed with your present comment?   8-{E

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16 Mar 07 - 01:51 PM (#1998798)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Little Hawk

Nope. (grin)

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16 Mar 07 - 02:30 PM (#1998834)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Bobert

I understand that he now has confessed to having kidnapped the Lindburg baby...

What next???

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16 Mar 07 - 03:01 PM (#1998864)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko

"Another way is to recognize that having and venturing opinions are an affirmation of kinship; there is always a certain amount of risk involved but each of us is also offering the essence of oneself. "

There is a lot of truth in that. It can be an affirmation of kinship, but it is also a great way to build walls. Sometimes that is the reason for venturing opinions.

Look at the posts here. Sherlock seems to know all the facts, at least the ones he or she chooses to recognize, and takes comfort in sharing them. It sets him or her appart and then can join with others who feel similar. It doesn't make them right, but they find solace in others who walk a different path.

Hate groups tend to do the same.

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16 Mar 07 - 03:06 PM (#1998879)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Little Hawk

Interesting insights there, Ron. I would tend to agree with what you say. People venture opinions for psychological reasons such as those you have suggested. They are indeed offering the essence of themselves. Doing so always involves some risk (of rejection), but it also provides a form of personal satisfaction that may be irresistible, despite the risk.

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16 Mar 07 - 03:06 PM (#1998880)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Peace

So do religions. And folk festivals. And rock concerts.

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16 Mar 07 - 03:12 PM (#1998886)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Little Hawk

Actually, everything that people really like to do is a process of offering up the essence of themselves.

What people really hate is when they are forced by others or by circumstances to do things which do NOT offer up the essence of themselves. That's why I didn't like going to school, for instance, and it's why a lot of people complain bitterly about their job or their boss.

Ron, is not any political propaganda team in any hostile controversy between groups or nations in some sense a "hate group"?

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16 Mar 07 - 03:22 PM (#1998899)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko

"Ron, is not any political propaganda team in any hostile controversy between groups or nations in some sense a "hate group"? "

You can stretch it to fit that definition I suppose, but if you get to the core of the issue hate does not have to be involved. I am convinced that our modern conflicts are impacted by rhetoric and a stubborness to reason and see other opinions.

It comes down to individual choices to seek out group approval and community.

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16 Mar 07 - 03:32 PM (#1998911)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Peace

But what if the group or community are wrong? (Or right?)

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16 Mar 07 - 04:17 PM (#1998943)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confess
From: number 6

"So do religions. And folk festivals. And rock concerts."

And don't forget picnics.





picnic ... interesting word?


biLL

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16 Mar 07 - 04:38 PM (#1998969)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Peace

Yeah. There's that, Ebbie. And of course, what if the one lunatic you know has a handle on it and the whole rest of the world is wrong?

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16 Mar 07 - 04:47 PM (#1998981)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: GUEST,Ignoramus

Who's David Suzuki?

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16 Mar 07 - 04:48 PM (#1998983)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: GUEST,Ignoramus

What's a picnic?

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16 Mar 07 - 04:49 PM (#1998986)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Peace

Canuck who has been very outspoken as an environmentalist. Brilliant at explaining complex scientific issues in terms/ways that clods like me can understand. Well respected writer and TV guy.

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16 Mar 07 - 04:57 PM (#1998994)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: GUEST,Ignoramus

Thanks Peace. I shall sleep well tonight knowing guys like him are on the job.

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16 Mar 07 - 05:33 PM (#1999017)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Little Hawk

Ebbie, you are wondering "what if they are right and I am wrong?"

Heh! Well, I wouldn't worry about that too much, because any God that is a just God will not punish anyone for being honestly mistaken about something. That's my opinion.

Mind you, I don't think God judges or punishes anyone anyway. I think God loves everyone and judges no one. I think it's only people who judge and punish others and themselves.

"though the rules of the road have been lodged, it's only people's games that you've got to dodge" - Bob Dylan

I always enjoy quoting from the Gospel of Bob. ;-)

It often occurs to me that I may be wrong, but if so, I am wrong without wrongful intention, and that's about all one can expect of people, in my opinion. Everybody makes mistakes from time to time.

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16 Mar 07 - 05:39 PM (#1999020)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confess
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko

"But what if the group or community are wrong? (Or right?)"

It isn't a question of right or wrong, it is a question of motive.

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16 Mar 07 - 05:40 PM (#1999022)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Peace

You say so, mano.

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16 Mar 07 - 05:47 PM (#1999028)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: GUEST, Ebbie

I wasn't really questiong whether I am wrong or right in relation to religious or spiritual matters, Little Hawk. More that I want to be sure I am working politically for the right causes. If someday I should suddenly realize that in lending my efforts to what I believe now I had helped bring about unpleasant or harmful or just plain wrong conditions it would be hard to live with.

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16 Mar 07 - 05:48 PM (#1999029)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confess
From: number 6

What's a picnic?

"Picnic of the World" ... by Tom Chapin

All the nations sitting on a blanket
Having a picnic, the Picnic of the World.

There's Holland and there's Poland
And there's Ireland and there's Thailand.
There's England and there's Scotland and America, that's my land.
There's Canada and Panama. There's Sweden and Aruba.
Korea, Tanzania, not to mention Greece and Cuba.
Mali, Bali, Mexico and Martinique.
Hungary, Turkey, India and Mozambique.
Haiti, Fiji, Israel and Senegal.
Kenya, Ghana, Jordan and Nepal.

All sitting on the same big blanket
With the same big basket
Full of sandwiches and devilled eggs.
We're all drinking from the same big thermos
At the same big picnic;
It's the picnic of the world.

There's Pakistan, Afghanistan, Malaya and Nigeria.
There's Luxembourg and Liechtenstein. Let's not forget Liberia.
There's Paraguay and Uraguay. There's Russia and there's Syria.
Sudan, Japan, Iraq, Iran and what about Algeria?
Finland, Greenland, Switzerland and Viet Nam.
Denmark, Norway, Swaziland and Surinam.
Chile, China, Guatamala, Trinidad.
Tonga, Togo, Portugal and Chad.

All sitting on the same big blanket
With the same warm soda
As the ants crawl on our sandwiches.
We're all swatting at the same mosquitoes,
Eating burned up burgers
At the picnic of the world.

There's Gambia and Zambia and Laos and Guyana.
There's Libya, Namibia, Andorra and Botswana.
Then there's Singapore and Ecuador, El Salvador and Lebanon.
Albania, Romania. There's Burma and Bhutan.

All sitting on the same big blanket
With the same big basket
Full of problems and annoyances.
But all knowing at the deep down heart of it
We're all a part of it,
The Picnic of the, Picnic of the,
Picnic of the World.

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16 Mar 07 - 05:50 PM (#1999031)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Little Hawk

I would agree, Ron. The vital thing is motive.

But....destructive motives are generally simply due to an inadequate understanding of life. Example: an oil company executive whose primary motive is to increase the profits of his company and to rise up the corporate ladder may help back a policy which inevitably destroys the lives of many people in some small country. In so doing, he has concentrated on the small picture (his company and his career), but he has failed to grasp the big picture. He has an inadequate understanding of life. He will be seen as "evil" by those his policies hurt. Maybe he is not evil, maybe he's just too narrow in his awareness.

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16 Mar 07 - 05:59 PM (#1999034)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confess
From: number 6

"an oil company executive whose primary motive is to increase the profits of his company "

... because the shareholders want profit, he answers to the share holders ... who all want the best value for their investment.

Don't think the oil company executive is so shallow he doesn't understand the 'big picture' ... you would be surprised, he probably has more of a grasp of the 'big picture' than you do. He just has different values.


BTW ... many of those shareholders are people who have money invested in their retirement funds ... and many of these people are demanding on getting results so they can retire comfortably. These are the people who probably don't get the 'big picture'

biLL

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16 Mar 07 - 06:07 PM (#1999042)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confess
From: number 6

BTW ... many of these retirement funds are via unions such as teacher's unions, government employee unions, nurses unions etc ... are these people aware of the results of where the profits from their union funded retirement funds are coming from?

It's all a big picnic.

and we are all participating in the Big Picnic.

lovely, interesting word isn't it?

biLL

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16 Mar 07 - 06:52 PM (#1999088)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Donuel

Little Hawk
don't ask spaw to offer up the essence of himself

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16 Mar 07 - 07:53 PM (#1999140)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko

"destructive motives are generally simply due to an inadequate understanding of life"

You hit the nail right on the head!!! Perfect!!

While is is easy for you or I to see a motive as "destructive", I think it would be wrong to assume that the oil company executive purposely ignored the data.   I spent a few years working at NBC, which as you may know is a GE company. I went to corporate headquarters and the people I met truly felt that they were doing good things for the environment - such as being against dredging the Hudson River to clean up PCP's their company dumped decades before. The truth is, their data has some validity and if you listen long enough, you believe it.

It is not just a matter of being brainwashed - it is simply that the information they worked from, and their experience in the world, made them feel confident that they were in the right.   

The same thing with people who believe that George W. & friends plotted the events of 9/11.   The framework and environment that surrounds them makes it difficult to accept data they do not want to believe.

I'm just a guilty, and not afraid to admit it. My life experiences have pointed me in the direction I lead my life. I make my opinions known, just like everyone else.

It doesn't make me right, nor does it make you correct.   Life goes on.

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16 Mar 07 - 07:58 PM (#1999144)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Peace

Gospel of Bob: [Their] profession is their religion, their sin is their lifelessness.

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16 Mar 07 - 08:17 PM (#1999165)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Little Hawk

Right on, Ron! ;-) I agree with you 100%.

Perfect Dylan quote, Bruce.

Yes, 6, you are right. Most of the shareholders don't get the big picture either...or they push it out of their thoughts.

Example: My father was constantly railing against all those who build war materials. He considered it a total waste of human effort and resources. He based this opinion on his own experiences in the insanity of war...in WWII.

However, he once appeared to have an opportunity to strike a very lucrative deal helping design and set up some high tech equipment for the US military (whose activities he was normally totally against). This deal could have made him millions, theoretically. He leaped at the opportunity and pursued it without a moment's hesitation.

I watched all this sadly from the side, seeing how little his usual rhetoric counted for when a profitable business opportunity presented itself. If questioned, he would probably have said, "Look, if I don't do it somebody else will." Most people are pretty much like that.

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16 Mar 07 - 08:56 PM (#1999189)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: dianavan

Are these confessions legally admissable?

Will he be charged?

Regardless of how these admissions were obtained and whether or not he will be brought to trial, it appears he has already been found guilty by the American public. Do you think this guy will ever have a chance at a 'fair' trial?

It seems to me that the only point of this whole media circus is to convince the U.S. public that George Bush was right all along.

Like bb says, in his own simplistic way, " So, you all now admit that Bush is doing a far better job stopping terrorist attacks than Clinton did? Planned attacks that were not carried out- sounds like Bush is doing the right thing."

btw, bb - How do you know, "The information from him was corrolated with the files on computers captured at the same time, other sources, other prisoners, etc."

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16 Mar 07 - 10:07 PM (#1999228)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confess
From: number 6

Thanks for bringing us back to the topic of this thread dianavan.

Got a bit carried away with picnics, shareholders and their association with profiting on oil production and manufacurers of war machines.

"Are these confessions legally admissable?"

"Will he be charged?"

I really dunno, can anyone here answer this with certain knowledge. I'd certainly like to know.

biLL

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16 Mar 07 - 10:23 PM (#1999238)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Peace

I am not aware that any charges have been laid against him other than the general "he's a terrorist". He's been held without being charged of anything specific (I thnk), so I'd guess that charges will stem from his 'confession'. However, even the 'experts' are having a helluva time determining what's bullshit and what isn't. That's from reading what's around the web in news and stuff like that.

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16 Mar 07 - 11:23 PM (#1999260)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confess
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko

"Thanks for bringing us back to the topic of this thread dianavan."

It was never off topic. The topic notes that it is "BS". You can't go off topic when it begins with that.

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16 Mar 07 - 11:43 PM (#1999265)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confess
From: Dickey

Dianavan and others are right. "I guess if I had been held captive without charge and tortured by the U.S., I'd confess to EVERYTHING too"

The key word is IF


Lesson Eighteen in the al-Qaeda training manual:

PRISONS AND DETENTION CENTERS

IF AN INDICTMENT IS ISSUED AND THE TRIAL, BEGINS, THE BROTHER HAS TO PAY ATTENTION TO THE FOLLOWING:

1 . At the beginning of the trial, once more the brothers must insist on proving that torture was inflicted on them by State Security [investigators ]before the judge.

2. Complain of mistreatment while in prison.

3. Make arrangements for the brother's defense with the attorney, whether he was retained by the brother's family or court-appointed.

4. The brother has to do his best to know the names of the state security officers, who participated in his torture and mention their names to the judge.[These names may be obtained from brothers who had to deal with those officers in previous cases.]

5. Some brothers may tell and may be lured by the state security investigators to testify against the brothers [i.e. affirmation witness ], either by not keeping them together in the same prison during the trials, or by letting them talk to the media. In this case, they have to be treated gently, and should be offered good advice, good treatment, and pray that God may guide them.

6. During the trial, the court has to be notified of any mistreatment of the brothers inside the prison.

7. It is possible to resort to a hunger strike, but i t is a tactic that can either succeed or fail.

8. Take advantage of visits to communicate with brothers outside prison and exchange information that may be helpful to them in their work outside prison [according to what occurred during the investigations]. The importance of mastering the art of hiding messages is self evident here.

-When the brothers are transported from and to the prison [on their way to the court] they should shout Islamic slogans out loud from inside the prison cars to impress upon the people and their family the need to support Islam.

-Inside the prison, the brother should not accept any work that may belittle or demean him or his brothers, such as the cleaning of the prison bathrooms or hallways.

-The brothers should create an Islamic program for themselves inside the prison, as well as recreational and educational ones, etc.

-The brother in prison should be a role model in selflessness. Brothers should also pay attention to each others needs and should help each other and unite vis a vis the prison officers.

-The brothers must take advantage of their presence in prison for obeying and worshipping [God] and memorizing the Qora 'an, etc. This is in addition to all guidelines and procedures that were contained in the lesson on interrogation and investigation. Lastly, each of us has to understand that we don 't achieve victory against our enemies through these actions and security procedures. Rather, victory is achieved by obeying Almighty and Glorious God and because of their many sins. Every brother has to be careful so as not to commit sins and everyone of us has to do his best in obeying Almighty God, Who said in his Holy Book: "We will, without doubt. help Our messengers and those who believe (both)in this world 's life and the one Day when the Witnesses will stand forth." May God guide us.

[Dedication)

To this pure Muslim youth, the believer, the mujahid (fighter) for God's sake. I present this modest effort as a contribution from me to pave the way that will lead to Almighty God and to establish a caliphate along the lines of the prophet.

The prophet, peace be upon him, said according to what was related by Imam Ahmed: "Let the prophecy that God wants be in you, yet God may remove it if He so wills, and then there will be a Caliphate according to the prophet's path [instruction], if God so wills it. He will also remove that [the Caliphate] if He so wills, and you will have a disobedient king if God so wills it. Once again, if God so wills, He will remove him [the disobedient king], and you will have an oppressive lung. [Finally], if God so wills, He will remove him [the oppressive king], and you will have a Caliphate according to the prophet 's path [instruction]. He then became silent."

THE IMPORTANCE OF TEAM WORK:

    1 .Team work is the only translation of God's command, as well as that of the prophet, to unite and not to disunite. Almighty God says, "And hold fast, all together, by the Rope which Allah (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves." In "Sahih Muslim," it was reported by Abu Horairah, may Allah look kindly upon him, that the prophet, may Allah's peace and greetings be upon him, said: "Allah approves three [things] for you and disapproves three [things]: He approves that you worship him, that you do not disbelieve in Him, and that you hold fast, all together, by the Rope which Allah, and be not divided among yourselves. He disapproves of three: gossip, asking too much [for help], and squandering money."

    2. Abandoning "team work "for individual and haphazard work means disobeying that orders of God and the prophet and falling victim to disunity.

    3. Team work is-conducive to cooperation in righteousness and piety.

    4. Upholding religion, which God has ordered us by His saying, "Uphold religion," will necessarily require an all out confrontation against all our enemies, who want to recreate darkness. In addition, it is imperative to stand against darkness in all arenas: the media, education, [religious] guidance, and counseling, as well as others. This will make it necessary for us to move on numerous fields so as to enable the Islamic movement to confront ignorance and achieve victory against it in the battle to uphold religion. All these vital goals can not be adequately achieved without organized team work. Therefore, team work becomes a necessity, in accordance with the fundamental rule, "Duty cannot be accomplished without it, and it is a requirement." This way, team work is achieved through mustering and organizing the ranks, while putting the Amir (the Prince) before them, and the right man in the right place, making plans for action, organizing work, and obtaining facets of power.

http://www.disastercenter.com/terror/index.htm

---

16 Mar 07 - 11:56 PM (#1999268)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confess
From: number 6

Interesting website Dickey .... everything from the al-Qaeda training manual to how to train your Newfoundland dog.

Sheeeeesh!!

biLL

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17 Mar 07 - 01:01 AM (#1999283)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Wordsmith

Apparently this confession came at a tribunal on March 10th and is on transcript. It was coerced after two-and-a-half minutes of waterboarding, which is a record, according to ABC news correspondent, Brian Ross, who is something of an expert in this area, having reported on many stories like 9/11 and the earlier bombing of the WTC. He also was the one who broke the story about the Sears Tower back when...and the FBI was mad about it and denied the threat even existed back then. Now, it appears, he has been vindicated.
I tried to find the article I read the other day online, but couldn't. It said Khalid was a person of something...which made him the only one being held in Gitmo who was...I know, I really shouldn't even mention it, but I was hoping someone might have seen that, too.
I, too, believe that little accurate information is obtained via torture...yet I find it interesting that the US goverment went after the military for Abu Greib (sp?) yet are clearly using similar techniques on these guys...of course, I'm not naive. I just have problems with hypocrisy and finding fall guys...which this guy seems to be. Not that I don't think he's guilty of some of these crimes. Like others, I just find it too convenient.
So, I guess we don't have to find Osama? And Zarqawi?
BTW, I hear Khalid also confessed to the kidnapping and killing of Madalyn Murray O'Hair. Bobert used my other punchline. Great minds?

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17 Mar 07 - 06:47 AM (#1999382)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Keith A of Hertford

Just to repeat my earlier post, he was proudly confessing to these crimes BEFORE he was captured.
Remember his interview with an Al Jazeera journalist?

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17 Mar 07 - 12:45 PM (#1999526)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: GUEST,Sherlock

So this man is to be believed before he was captured?

Ossama bin Laden, in his first statement after 9/11, said such an act would be irreligeous. Taking the lives of civilians, women and children during war is not righteous, and he would never do that. Period. He denied any responsibility.

Fox News, on the other hand was screaming 30 minutes after the WTC towers fell that the U.S. intelligence network was ineffective and Ossama bin Laden was responsible for the attacks and he was in Afghanistan. If the intelligence was so faulty, how did Fox News know such details? Answer, it was scripted. Some news readers (at the BBC and CNN) even got ahead of the script and announced the collapse of WTC 7 long before it actually fell.

9/11 was a staged event, and now we are occasionally fed blurbs confessing guilt because the media elite are convinced we can't think beyond blurbs. A week from now, most Americans will remember something about Khalid confessing, and that's it. And the memory of "that sheik guy" will just reinforce prior lies about govt non-involvement in 9/11. That's what the obviously-bogus Khalid "confession" is about.

The pentagon/White House carried out the 9/11 attacks with the help of a handful of other gangster organizations.

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17 Mar 07 - 01:58 PM (#1999581)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confess
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko

Sherlock, I think you missed your meds.

You have ZERO proof of any of your statements, yet you speak out of your ass as if it were gospel. You prove my earlier point. You could damn well be right, but can't fathom being wrong. Your convicitions have enabled you to disregard wisdom and logic and make your assumptions the truth. In your world, it is very true.

If you ever set foot in a newsroom, you would realize how impossible the "scripted" scenario is. Naturally you have no experience or knowledge of such organizations, so in your mind you can make such a scenario work for you.

I am guessing you never set foot in the WTC and have never been in lower Manhattan, so you would not realize how difficult "gangster" organizations would have to pull off such a scheme. So, in your mind, it works.

I've never set foot in the White House, so I have no idea how a President and a government could pull something off. I'm open to suggestions that would satisfy logic of my experience.

I could not definitivly say you are crazy, but I have your statements to judge whether or not your postings make any sense. At this point, they do not.

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17 Mar 07 - 02:22 PM (#1999595)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Keith A of Hertford

Aricle about interview

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17 Mar 07 - 07:44 PM (#1999797)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Little Hawk

Ron, I think he means gangster organizations allied with people at the governmental level.

For example, the US government has worked in the past with the Mafia from time to time on such projects as assassinating Fidel Castro (unsuccessful). And that's just one example. When it is considered expedient, governments work unofficially with non-governmental gangster organizations of many types when they are engaging in covert operations at home or abroad. Deals are made, and payoffs are made. It's a fine example of one big hand washing the other. ;-)

As someone else said, the key word is "IF"....

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17 Mar 07 - 11:52 PM (#1999928)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Peace

They worked closely with the Sicilian Mafia during WWII also.

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17 Mar 07 - 11:57 PM (#1999930)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confess
From: Dickey

If a bullfrog had wings, he wouldn't bust his ass every time he hops.

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18 Mar 07 - 12:00 AM (#1999933)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Peace

Tell that to this guy.

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18 Mar 07 - 09:06 AM (#2000115)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confess
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko

Sometimes the end justifies the means.   It is easy to look back in retrospect and assign our modern sense of morality, but not being intimately involved in the situation we have no way of knowing what trasnpired and why.

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18 Mar 07 - 09:42 AM (#2000145)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: GUEST,meself

Jeesh, Peace, where do you come up with all these graphics? You had that unlikely illustration up in three minutes ... !

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18 Mar 07 - 11:26 AM (#2000210)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: GUEST,282RA

Well, I guess this confession justifies this war.

I mean, what is the point of this?? We read a confession of a man we have never presumed to be innocent from the git-go and shuttle him off for years to a prison known to abuse detainees for an administration that not only demands the right to torture but has tacitly ordered it as we learned from Uncle Donnie.

A confession from captors known to torture for an administration that considers torture legitimate is worthless. This is a friggin charade. Who in their right minds would give this any credence? And what good is this confession in the face of the fact that we are losing the war and spending ourselves bankrupt for the privilege? What about the lies? The corruption? The shoddy medical care for the wounded? The ballooning deficit? What does this confession do for us that we should care who, if anyone, ever confesses?

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18 Mar 07 - 04:04 PM (#2000464)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Strollin' Johnny

I used to say that Osama and his mates were nutcases. I apologise unreservedly to those good and great men. I was wrong, they are completely sane. The nutcases are some of those who contribute on Mudcat threads.

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18 Mar 07 - 04:07 PM (#2000467)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Peace

I expect the Bush administration wouldn't be having the difficulty it is today had they not supported Hussein when he was gassing Kurds. Also, the Bush family's dealings with the bin Laden family must certainly stir the shit a bit, no?

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18 Mar 07 - 04:47 PM (#2000498)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Little Hawk

It's normal for the Empire to deal with murderers as long as they go out and murder other people for the Empire. It's when they go into business for themselves contrary to the Empire's agenda that the scenario suddenly changes. That's what Saddam did, and it's what Osama at least appears to have done...as far as we know. We only know what we are told, however...

Check out the Donald Trump interview on the new thread.

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18 Mar 07 - 08:53 PM (#2000692)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: GUEST,Sherlock

Gee, Oleosko, the only meds I take are aspirin, and usually only after reading something by you, Froth or Blebbie. The True Relievers of the govt's 9/11 conspiracy theory. You ought to get out on the internet more. Take a tour, on me:

http://www.911truth.org/

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wrh_9-11_index.html

http://911proof.com/11.html

http://physics911.net/

http://www.septembereleventh.org/newsarchive/

http://www.911weknow.com/

Governmnents have ALWAYS used terrorism as a tool. Look up the Gulf of Tonkin incident...or no, that's a bad example. That incident never took place. McNamara made it up. But look up the bombing of the King David Hotel, 1946. Pearl Harbor, the Maine, the Reichstag fire. Terrorism herds the masses. Or it did until the internet came along.

I suspect THAT'S why you have a burr in your panties. You asses in the "media" are becoming unnecessary. There's an evolutionary term...can't think of it. Like when that sixth toe appears on a baby and is nipped off. No longer needed. And that's what's happening to the media. From the Fourth Estate to the Sixth Toe. You blathering heads aren't needed anymore, and I'm sure that's distressing. But don't take it out on me.

The govt tells me that 19 wanted men made it past all that airport security and seized 4 planes with boxcutters. Despite the fact they were flight-school drop outs, they flew the planes into 3 out of 4 of their targets with pinpoint accuracy. One pilot executed a 6-g turn even though his flight instructor said he couldn't handle the stick of a Cessna. Another pilot defied the physical law of gust to trim and hit the pentagon. One hijacker's passport survived the black-box-melting fireball and fluttered down on top of the debris in NYC, to be discovered afterwards. Oh, and the hijackers magically got NORAD to stand down and leave the most highly-secured airspace on the eastern seaboard unguarded for an hour and a half. Oh, and 7 of the 19 hijackers are still alive in the middle-east.

I'd believe the govt's version of events in a heartbeat if it made sense, but it doesn't. AND they stalled the investigations, AND they have hidden too much material relevant to the investigation. They've blocked lawsuits by the surviving family members and threatened people who defy "national security" gag orders and talk about the things they saw on 9/11. They've used 9/11 to launch 2 unjustified wars, destroy the U.S. constitution and cancel habeas corpus.

Given all the above, one must inevitably conclude that 9/11 was a pretext. Until I'm shown otherwise, that's what I have to go with.

Oh, and when I say gangsters, I mean gangsters. Rudy Giuliani's father was a Mafia enforcer who served time in Sing Sing. Look it up. Unfortunately, the mafia and every other psychotic control group you can think of have now joined forces to make a buck on the death of America. They're working behind the cover of "legit" enterprises, so they're more properly "banksters," I guess, but they're up to no good, and they control both the major political parties, and they're going to destroy America. But that's a whole other topic. Giuliani, Sing Sing, look it up.

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18 Mar 07 - 09:11 PM (#2000698)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Ebbie

You're not going to find it if you spell it that way.

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18 Mar 07 - 10:36 PM (#2000733)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confess
From: Dickey

9/11 Commision report page 147

KSM first came to the attention of U.S. law enforcement as a result of his cameo role in the first World Trade Center bombing. According to KSM, he learned of RamziYousef 's intention to launch an attack inside the United States in 1991 or 1992,whenYousef was receiving explosives training in Afghanistan.
During the fall of 1992, whileYousef was building the bomb he would use in that attack, KSM and Yousef had numerous telephone conversations during which Yousef discussed his progress and sought additional funding. On November 3, 1992, KSM wired $660 from Qatar to the bank account of Yousef 's co-conspirator, Mohammed Salameh. KSM does not appear to have contributed any more substantially to this operation. Yousef 's instant notoriety as the mastermind of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing inspired KSM to become involved in planning attacks against the United States. By his own account, KSM's animus toward the United States stemmed not from his experiences there as a student, but rather from his violent disagreement with U.S. foreign policy favoring Israel.
In 1994, KSM accompanied Yousef to the Philippines, and the two of them began planning what is now known as the Manila air or "Bojinka" plot—the intended bombing of 12 U.S. commercial jumbo jets over the Pacific during a two-day span.
This marked the first time KSM took part in the actual planning of a terrorist operation.While sharing an apartment in Manila during the summer of 1994, he and Yousef acquired chemicals and other materials necessary to construct bombs and timers.They also cased target flights to Hong Kong and Seoul that would have onward legs to the United States. During this same period, KSM and Yousef also developed plans to assassinate President Clinton during his November 1994 trip to Manila, and to bomb U.S.-bound cargo carriers by smuggling jackets containing nitrocellulose on board. KSM left the Philippines in September 1994 and met up with Yousef in Karachi following their casing flights. There they enlisted Wali Khan Amin Shah, also known as Usama Asmurai, in the Manila air plot. During the fall of
1994,Yousef returned to Manila and successfully tested the digital watch timer he had invented, bombing a movie theater and a Philippine Airlines flight en route to Tokyo.The plot unraveled after the Philippine authorities discovered Yousef 's bomb-making operation in Manila; but by that time, KSM was safely back at his government job in Qatar.Yousef attempted to follow through on the cargo carriers plan, but he was arrested in Islamabad by Pakistani authorities on February 7, 1995, after an accomplice turned him in.....

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19 Mar 07 - 01:45 AM (#2000774)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Wordsmith

Speaking of gangsters, Time Magazine had an excellent article a while back on a gangster that was terrorizing India and disappeared just before he was going to be kicked out. Guess who invited him to "come and sit a spell"? Pakistan...specifically, Musharraf.

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19 Mar 07 - 08:34 AM (#2000954)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko

Sherlock, I have visited all of the sites you mentioned. You are too blind to realize that you are following an agenda without ANY basis in proof. Your mind was made up before you clicked on any of those sites.

Instead of showing off that you know how to surf the net, why don't you tell us about all the sites you visited that contradict your findings and why those findings could not possibly be correct. Why is that when someone "debunks" one of your theories, you wrap yourself behind a cowardly stance that we are "true believers" or "pawns". Your pathetic lack of skills only allow you to attack the individuals because you lack the ability to reason and use logic. You are nothing more than a useless tool that has been brainwashed into believing in half-baked ideas that have been proven wrong over and over again.

I'm sure you are going to come up with some smart aleck remark about me now, but the facts remain - you have no reasonable proof that any of these theories are true, and your theories can be easily disproven. IF you can give a lucid explanation instead of cutting and pasting from anonymous websites, perhaps you could be more convincing.

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19 Mar 07 - 08:59 AM (#2000983)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Strollin' Johnny

Wasting your time Ron, you can never persuade a nutter that he's a nutter because, of course, in HIS world he's the only one that's sane.

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19 Mar 07 - 09:14 AM (#2000996)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Little Hawk

Everybody visits the sites that support their chosen view and doesn't spend much, if any, time on those sites that oppose it... ;-)

That's just normal human behaviour. After all, one only has so much time in a day, and people tend to read what they agree with.

However, there are some (a perfectionist and fanatical few) who delight in cherry-picking through the info on sites (and posts) that they don't like, just so they can leap like a hungry tiger on some questionable detail, some "mistake" or "fallacy" that they find there, and then tell all their friends about it gleefully...

Teribus is one such person. You might be another, Ron, but I can't say that for sure, because it might be a gross libel in your case. ;-)

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19 Mar 07 - 09:53 AM (#2001039)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko

Little Hawk, think of me what you will, but I do make every effort to read both sides of the story in this case. I never take anything the government says as "gospel", nor do I believe in everything I read on a website.    A lot of it is common sense and logic and using skills and experience gathered in life to come to a conclusion.

You are right though, Sherlock and other theorists seem to leap like a hungry tiger on some questionable detail and cherry pick on info from sites that support their chosen view. I highly doubt that Sherlock has read the official report as carefully as he or she has read some of these websites.

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19 Mar 07 - 12:20 PM (#2001158)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: GUEST,Sherlock

Bullshit. That's why people are tuning out the traditional media. Radio and TV are dead. And the 9/11 lie is what did it.

See, the old guard thinks they can toss out some BS like the Khalid "confession" and it'll make a difference. It'll have impact. That is ancient, Radio/Television thinking. The people who have been responsible for 100+ years of modern terrorism are locked into old ways of thinking, and they won't be able to adapt to the new ways of communication. You're a tube-head, Olesko, and the world's gone digital. The sad thing is, the people in control still think we're listening to their Rathers and Chungs and Mike Wallace's, but we're not. Witness the universal rejection of the Khalid confession. No one believes it, yet it was thrown out to us, business as usual, to dupe us into supporting criminal acts of govt.

As far as me believing "conspiracies," which ones are you referring to? I can PROVE to you that your govt 9/11 story is a conspiracy (hijackers still alive, etc.), and I can quote physicists to back up what I see as the truth. I see these things as the truth because none of the other explanations make sense. Took 1 week to launch the investigations into Pearl Harbor, the JFK assassination, the Challenger explosion, yet Bush stalled 411 days before APPOINTING an "unbiased" committee. This while he pushed on the 9/11 nerve daily and said we were in imminent danger of another attack. And then when he DID appoint a committee, he said the mass-murderer Kissinger would head it. The public revolted.

No one believes the govt's version of 9/11 any more, and you old media people need to quit hawking the lie and just accept the fact that you're passe. Selling out your country won't help you retain your eroding standing.

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19 Mar 07 - 01:18 PM (#2001193)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko

" I can quote physicists to back up what I see as the truth"

You haven't done so yet.   You've quoted physicists that will back up theories of how you think it was done, but when it gets disproven you ignore the evidence. You only submit data when it backs up the facts that you see fit. You are no different than what you are accusing others of being. You are the one selling out your country. You won't look for the truth, you will only look for self-satisfaction. Your lies aren't working Sherlock.

Give us evidence and theories that make sense of what really happened. You can't twist the facts forever.

A tube head? You can't do better than that? You are a coward.

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19 Mar 07 - 01:27 PM (#2001204)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Ebbie

Hey, we already are aware he is a coward. The member who posts as multi-headed Guests dares to do so only under other 'untraceable' names. We already know that he is flaky; if we all knew him as a gullible multi-conspiracist, he knows we would see him as the fearful person he really is. And he couldn't stand that.

I feel sorry for him, actually.

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19 Mar 07 - 01:36 PM (#2001214)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Little Hawk

All these debate threads are like a really hot game of squash. You always know the damn ball is going to come zinging back like a bat out of hell, and you have to remember to duck at opportune moments so you don't get hit in the eye. Pow! Zap! Bam!

Just when you think it's finally over, someone launches another thread and Awwwwayyyyyy we go again!

What if one week we all decided to go to a health spa and no one posted?

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19 Mar 07 - 02:00 PM (#2001237)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Amos

More confessions including the Cole and the embassy attacks.

It is interesting to me, if these statements are true, that a small handfull of violent men has put the entire United States into a tailspin, convinced that there is a global battle going on. It's a real bogey-man syndrome -- they appear to be everywhere and the whole world is made dangerous by one or two really nasty individuals propogating terror. Not to discount their followers, but most followers are malleable.

A

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19 Mar 07 - 02:08 PM (#2001243)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: dianavan

"...a small handfull of violent men has put the entire United States into a tailspin."

You got that right.

Not only did the U.S. attack nations on the basis of a few criminal acts, they have completely ignored Sudan (where bin Laden sought refuge) and the countries where these terrorists were born and raised.

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20 Mar 07 - 08:56 AM (#2001982)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Strollin' Johnny

Any oil in the Sudan?

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20 Mar 07 - 09:10 AM (#2002000)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Amos

YEs, there is. I think the Chinese have the contracts, though.

A

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20 Mar 07 - 09:11 AM (#2002001)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Amos

See here, for example


a

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20 Mar 07 - 12:21 PM (#2002192)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Peace

While I understand that many folks here are against conspiracy stuff for what they feel is good reason, and others are for conspiracy stuff for what THEY consider to be good reasn, I think both camps would do themselves a favour were they to back up and answer a few questions.

1) Did the Bush administration fumble the ball with intelligence regarding the possibility of an attack before 9-11?

2) WHY was the bin Laden family allowed to leave the USA (17 people was it?) so shortly after 9-11, especially when the Bush administration knew that Osama was their enemy and likely behind the 9-11 attacks?

3) The memo that crossed Blair's desk with regard to the Iraq invasion seems to have been forgotten by everyone. Why is that?

5) In the space of just a few years, the USA had irreparable damage done to its world image and damage dones to its personal freedoms as outlined by the Constitution. Why have Americans become complacent about that? Because the full weight of what are now legal restrictions haven't been applied to the general population yet?

6) Yes, the conspiracy people (of whom I am one) cherry pick. But then, so do those of you who claim there is no conspiracy.

The five questions--some argumentative--that I posted above require answers. Answers to them would help 'decide' whether there has been conspiracy to commit felonies by the Bush administration. So for now, forget youtube and the buildings. Let's deal with the simpler stuff first. And the stuff I posted is simple.

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20 Mar 07 - 01:04 PM (#2002255)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko

1) Did the Bush administration fumble the ball with intelligence regarding the possibility of an attack before 9-11?

YES.

2) WHY was the bin Laden family allowed to leave the USA (17 people was it?) so shortly after 9-11, especially when the Bush administration knew that Osama was their enemy and likely behind the 9-11 attacks?

I do think that they should not have been allowed to leave so quickly and the check on their status and connection might not have been thorough enough.   This is another example of sloppy work, but not an example that there was a consipiracy. What is the connection? These flights were not very well kept secrets and I would assume they would have covered tracks, especially with a few days to regroup.

3) The memo that crossed Blair's desk with regard to the Iraq invasion seems to have been forgotten by everyone. Why is that?

That was a snow job. The war was wrong, and I think Bush took advantage of 9/11 to persue his goals.    Conspiracy? No proof or suggestion of it here, but it does show an opportunist at work.

5) In the space of just a few years, the USA had irreparable damage done to its world image and damage dones to its personal freedoms as outlined by the Constitution. Why have Americans become complacent about that? Because the full weight of what are now legal restrictions haven't been applied to the general population yet?

Americans are still complaining and working to reverse this mess. Too many people sit on their ass until it directly concerns them. There should be more people complaining.

6) Yes, the conspiracy people (of whom I am one) cherry pick. But then, so do those of you who claim there is no conspiracy.

Keep picking and it will never heal. Seriously, you can cherry pick - but so far you have not made anything stick.   It is ill conceived.

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20 Mar 07 - 01:45 PM (#2002288)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Peace

Ron, I am not trying to 'make anything stick'. I do not understand why you get so confrontive so quickly over this and a few other matters. Usually you make the attempt to be civil. I see you no longer do. So be it, but maybe then don't expect civility back. It just ended from me.

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20 Mar 07 - 01:53 PM (#2002298)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko

Peace - I'm not being "confrontive" - I am just discussing this. I am being civil here, I'm not sure why you are interpreting this otherwise.

You gave us a series of questions and I answered them. All I said was that you gave us a few examples and there was nothing that would "make them stick" - meaning I am not seeing any evidence that indicates a conspriacy.

This is a sensitive issue, but rest assured I am not trying to be confrontational and I have always treated you with civility.

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20 Mar 07 - 02:18 PM (#2002323)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confess
From: bobad

IMO the anonymous person who keeps starting these contentious threads is getting their kicks by sowing seeds of discord and then sitting back and delighting as good people go after each other. Don't feed him/her.

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20 Mar 07 - 03:41 PM (#2002410)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Peace

"Keep picking and it will never heal. Seriously, you can cherry pick - but so far you have not made anything stick.   It is ill conceived. "

WTF is ill conceived? I am asking questions that there are no easy answers for. Cheney, an old CEO of Halliburton becomes VP and all of a sudden Halliburton is making billions in the fuckin' war. Coincidence no doubt.

Bush, who mismanaged a free oil company into the red--how does that work?--becomes the most powerful person on the planet. How does THAT work?

The term Neocon has been used for a hundred years and people just three years ago were saying they didn't exist, that they were not a behind-the-scenes 'force'. How does THAT work?

Keriste, for people who are so well informed and so well-read, I am amazed that you all are willing to take the word and 'investigations' of this government as honest and forthright.

Private army in New Orleans? Police working with military for domestic arrests? Guantanamo and the out-sourcing of torture? This is the new Unitred States of America but everything's normal. How does that work?

You seem to think I am trying to prove a conspiracy. I am not. But I do think there is one, and I think it is so big it's difficult to see. And do I have the answer as to what it is? No. Besides, if I did have the answer and happened to write it here, I don't doubt I would be killed within a few days of publishing that answer.

The ultimate aim of the Neocons, IMO, is the complete control of all resources on this planet and the complete control of all people (labour) on this planet.

Wolfowitz heading the World Bank? A UN that has no balls? Inept leadership for years. Deaths by the millions in Africa, Asia, and by the tens of thousands in the mid-East, and in Europe. This shit is just happening, right? No way.

Wars now are engineered. Hell, I don't have any idea what the money is in arms trading/sales, but it has to be substantial.

Drug companies making over 1000% profits on the stuff they sell. People in poverty that is unimaginable. Just fluke you think? Maybe, maybe not. But every time there's a war, every fucking time, the same bloody cast of characters shows up, the same companies or sister companies, the same fucking boards of directors.

I could give a shit about 9-11, per se. People died. About as many as starve to death every single day in Africa. So to hell with 9-11. FORGET 9-11. Forget questions about the veracity of the Bush administration and the Clinton administration before it. Both these fuckers will not have any war in which they can't turn a profit. And there's the rub. Who's making the money?

If I misunderstood you, I apologize. But please don't misunderstand me either. I do NOT think our leaders are honest people. And I do not think all our leaders have been elected. Paranoia? Maybe. But then I likely would have been paranoid about the Kennedy family way back when. And the deals with Hitler and the steel companies. Gospel of Bob: "But the town has no need to be nervous."

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20 Mar 07 - 03:55 PM (#2002421)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko

I do understand you Peace, and I probably should have clarified "ill conceived".   Many of the theories that have been put for here (not by you) are ill conceived - no plane at the Pentagon, media planting stories, controlled demolition of the tower, etc.   My point was that there has been no logical evidence put forth that backs up those theories.   Without logic and a smoking gun, the theories are just that.

I don't think our leaders are honest either. I agree with you about Cheney and Halliburton and the rest. We should not have invaded Iraq - it is an illegal occupation in my opinion.   Drug companies, oil industry, etc.   There seems to a collusion going on here.

Still, I cannot let my feelings about these other things cloud my opinion of what happened at THE CRIME SCENE. That is what it was. Say what you will about attacks on our way of life, it boils down to a group plotting the most heinous crime of the century. I don't see a smoking gun that leads me to believe our government was involved with this crime.

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20 Mar 07 - 03:58 PM (#2002425)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Peace

Thank you, Ron. I indeed do apologize. I should have known better. I think it's delayed male menopause and the pressure of finding out that I have to change my damned clock again on March 25. There is only so much a guy can take.

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20 Mar 07 - 04:04 PM (#2002429)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko

I'm with you Peace. I understand completly. There is no need to apologize for your passions. I think the reason all of us are posting is because we do care about this country and what is happening.

It frustrates the hell out of me when I see people sitting back and taking it. The anti-war movement in this country has not mobilized in the ways that are needed. Thankfully the people that are committed are doing an exceptional job fighting this.

I never want to discourage people from digging for the truth. It is the only way we can surive. At the same time, I don't like to see obvious dead ends turned into off ramps to highways that take us further from the real destination.   I see a lot of that happening in the so-called 9/11 Truth movment - and it would be easy to convince me that the government planted some of these ideas to throw the pack off the real track. It is so much more "romantic" to chase a story about planting explosives and planning the demolition of the towers than it is to realize that we had no security on the airlines and the FBI had their thumbs up their ass before 9/11.

Keep fighting the good fight Peace. Let none of us squabble with each other - that plays into their hands.

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20 Mar 07 - 04:08 PM (#2002435)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Ebbie

lol On a scale of 1 to 10, Peace, which is worse: male menopause or changing the clock(s)? I'm long since gone through (female) menopause, I've already changed my clocks for this year- I'm still debating the question.

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20 Mar 07 - 04:35 PM (#2002467)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Peace

That's the Ron I know and love. Again, sorry buddy.

Ebbie, I read that the clocks have to be changed again on March 25. MY GAWD! I just did that, and my alarm goes off at 2:43 AM every day. No sleep, no pheasant under glass, fish angry at me. This is NO way to live.

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20 Mar 07 - 04:45 PM (#2002478)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Peace

It all reminds me of Al Stewart's "Time Passages".

It was late in December
The sky turned to snow
All round the day was going down slow
Night like a river beginning to flow
I felt the beat of my mind
Go drifting into time passages
Years go falling in the fading light
Time passages
Buy me a ticket on the last train home tonight

Well, I'm not the kind to live in the past
The years run too short and the days too fast
The things you lean on
Are the things that don't last
Well, it's just now
And then my line gets cast into these
Time passages
There's something back here that you left behind
Oh, time passages
Buy me a ticket on the last train home tonight

Hear the echoes and feel yourself starting to turn
Don't know why you should feel
That there's something to learn
It's just a game that you play

[Instrumental Interlude]

Well, the picture is changing
Now you're part of a crowd
They're laughing at something
And the music's loud
A gal comes towards you
You once used to know
You reach out your hand
But you're all alone
In these time passages
I know you're in there
You're just out of sight
Oh, time passages
Buy me a ticket on the last train home tonight


(Song I always loved.)

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20 Mar 07 - 06:03 PM (#2002550)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confess
From: jaze

I know, how about putting him and Ann Coulter together in a cell. Can't think of a worse punishment for either of them.

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20 Mar 07 - 07:40 PM (#2002629)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Ebbie

Ha, Peace. I've got you beat for frustration. The clock radio I'm using was left at the House museum where I lived and worked for years. I switched to it (and pitched mine) because it is nicer looking than the old one I'd had. It is a new clock- but there's no manual.

So. I can't figure out how to turn off the alarm. I set the alarm for an hour at which I'm still awake so I can push the button to turn it off. If I don't turn it off, it gets louder and louder and LOUDER AND LOUDER...

This is going on EVERY day and has been for a year.

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20 Mar 07 - 07:56 PM (#2002643)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Ebbie

In response to -ahem- someone's suggestion I looked it up the internet and found this:

"...how to turn the alarm off so that it didn't beep every few minutes. now, i can't figure out how to turn the alarm off. i've pressed cancel and every combination of buttons that i can think of. all cancel does is make the dot that signifies that the alarm has been set to flash at you for a few seconds before it goes back to normal.

"an alarm clock shouldn't need an owner's manual. an on/off button...i mean, what in the heck is that? what's "on"? shouldn't it just say "off"? and shouldn't "off" be indicative that you've turned the alarm completely off until the next time you choose to reset the alarm? if they mean "off" to signify that you've turned the alarm off, but it's still armed for the next morning, shoudn't there be a button that says, "really off"? and "on" button means that the alarm is set, right? "

Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming.

i think this is the stupidest alarm clock i've ever dealt with.

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20 Mar 07 - 07:57 PM (#2002645)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Peace

You have my sympathies.

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20 Mar 07 - 08:32 PM (#2002667)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Little Hawk

Alarm clocks were invented by Satan to torture humanity and drive them all insane.

The same may be true of TV game shows, come to think of it.

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20 Mar 07 - 09:27 PM (#2002709)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: Amos

It's not like Little Hawk to start blaming Satan for things. I am worried about him.

A

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20 Mar 07 - 09:33 PM (#2002716)
Subject: RE: BS: 9/11 Solved-Khalid Sheikh Mohammed Confessed
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp

Yeah, I've been a bit worried too...ever since he took that exorcism course and started hangin' crosses and garlic by all the windows. I think he's been driven mad by all them political threads on Mudcat.

- Chongo

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