Well. Everybody is nicer than me. Again. Damn. All the chairs taken when the music stops. Here I am, again, the lone jerk. Where's Martin when you need him. I think it's a conspiracy.

   I don't think I can back-pedal from having said I don't find CarolC's position serious, but instead I think she sounds like a liberal with a pet cause, which she holds apart from all others involving much the same principles. Including those on the other side of her position.

   And I don't agree with you Nerd about low insults. CarolC doesn't do that easily or very much at all, but to the extent she seems to, the problem is more for me that it tips off the whole tone and gist of her position. It's not that she implies that you are not for human rights, it's that she generally implies that nobody is unless they agree with her, and does not admit comparison to the many ways that human rights are compromised toward other ends. Listen: She says things like "I don't begrudge Jews their homeland in Israel"--I guess it's just me, thinking For God's sake who do you imagine you are, anyway? I can't come around to it, at all. No more than I can come around to George Will's posturing in the article above. Oh well.