Jim Carroll says: The church has always seen fit to judge the morals of others - from the 'cuttie stools' in Scots chapels to the public shaming of immoral women (never men) in front of congregations in Catholic churches.
One of the main reasons given by the church for their devastating opposition to crossroads and house dances was that they encouraged young people to socialise "unchaperoned".
The homes for "sinning" women, the Magdalene laundries and the seizure and sale of "illegitimate" babies were among the the results of this judgement, and the widespread and long-term clerical abuses were proof, if any were needed, of the total unsuitability of the largely male-dominated church as a guide and arbiter in sexual matters.

Jim, Jim, Jim....why this compulsion to dwell on the past? Adn why this obsession with sex? We're in the twenty-first century now, not the fifteenth. Public shaming hasn't been a practice in the Catholic Church for over fifty years, and it was uncommon even in the first half of the twentieth century. For a long time even before the Second Vatican Council, the practice of the Catholic Church has been to express moral opinions in a rational fashion, not as edicts. When John Paul II condemned the American invasions of Iraq, he used logical arguments against the attacks - not edicts. And instead of damning all Americans to hell for the attacks, he explained the logical consequences of the action.

When Pope Francis attempted to intervene in the Israel-Palestine conflict, he used persuasion, not threats of damnation.

When Benedict XVI spoke against the greed of capitalism, he used a logical argument, not moral sanctions.

And the same goes back a long way. Most of the moral pronouncements of the Catholic Church in recent centuries have not been the moral dictates of your stereotype - they've been rational discussions of moral issues. Now, you may or may not agree with the church's opinion on these matters, but certainly that Catholic Church has as much right to voice an opinion as you have (and when the Catholic Church voices a moral opinion, it does so with a far less moralistic tone than you use yourself).

Your argument that the Catholic Church has no right to voice an opinion on moral matters because it has immoral acts in its history, simply doesn't make sense.

I see that the message I typed last night, brought out the bigots in full force. Even Fionn has raised his angry head to repeat the angry, self-righteous cry of condemnation (and his false implication that I would support Nazis). Musket, Jim Carroll, Fionn, and the others are all the same - they get on their white chargers and lead the charge of righteousness against the hordes of dead Catholics who committed the horrible atrocities of the past. And of course, they seek to righteously silence all current Catholics because of the misdeeds of past Catholics.

If you disagree with Catholic opposition to capital punishment, capitalist greed, American imperialism, oppression of immigrants, or whatever, do so by addressing the issue directly instead of bringing up past history on unrelated issues. If you agree with me and condemn the coverups of priests who molest children, or disagree with Catholic opposition to homosexual marriage, use of condoms, and a number of other issues, join me in addressing those issues directly and rationally.

But don't bring up the past in order to condemn the present. That's just not fair. I agree that these past issues are important and that they must be investigated fully. But they're in the past and were committed by people who are mostly dead or over the age of 80. And these things happened in institutions that no longer exist, and nobody would dream of building similar institutions in the current day or any time in the future. The guilt is still there, and will remain forever - but the guilty people are, for the most part, dead...or nearly so.

And don't get all hung up on sex. Think about what elderly celibate bishops are likely to know about sex, and then take what they say for what it's worth. And for that matter, the current practice of the Catholic Church is not to say much about sex - and it's been that way for fifty years, since the fiasco of Humanae Vitae of 1968. Better update your stereotypes.

-Joe Offer-