I reviewed my email correspondence with Musket. Actually, I said that I did concede that many of Akenaton's posts fit some definitions of "homophobic." I told Musket I found fear and misinformation in Akenaton's posts, not hatred. I said that Ake needed to be persuaded, not attacked. I certainly found nothing in Akenaton's posts that was hateful or that promoted violence, or that should be reported to police authorities.

Akenaton and some others (me, perhaps?) simply represent an opposing view, ideas that do not agree with the dominating forces here. The idea of a discussion forum is that various sides of an issue are supposed to come together and present their opinions and discuss them, with the intention of exchanging ideas and coming to an understanding, if not agreement.

But the dominating forces here seem bent only on defeating and destroying opposition - often resorting to use of a wide variety of bullying tactics.

I find myself in an interesting position here. I don't agree with Akenaton on very many things, especially about homosexuality. And I don't have any particular admiration for Mother Teresa. And I agree with Jim Carroll that the Catholic Church, especially in Ireland, has done much harm.

But I don't agree that combative tactics are a necessary or constructive response to Akenaton, to Mother Teresa, or to the Catholic Church.

I deal with right-wing Catholics all the time, and I abhor many of their tactics. Back when I was a 16-year-old minor seminary student, there was an organization of right-wing women who regularly picketed our school, protesting the "heretical" speakers who were invited to speak to young, impressionable seminarians. And it wasn't just picketing - it was a full-blown campaign against the seminary and its philosophy. About seven years later, they finally succeeded in getting the Vatican to send investigators to our seminary, the third-oldest Catholic seminary in the U.S. The investigators found nothing wrong, but the neighboring bishops got scared off and withdrew their seminarians from our school. The seminary went from 240 students to five within a year.

Right-wing Catholics have kept a vigil outside the Planned Parenthood clinic in Sacramento for years. I found out recently that during their purportedly peaceful vigils, they take photographs of everyone going into the building - and they have used those photographs in various ways to harass those who patronize or volunteer at the clinic. They pressured the Bishop of Sacramento to require the firing of a Catholic high school drama coach who had been photographed doing volunteer work at the clinic before she was employed at the school. Our bishop's "got no courage in him," so I long ago stopped contributing money to my diocese. I wrote a letter to my bishop and told him so, and demanded a refund of my most recent contribution - and I got my refund.

Right-wing Catholics use distortion, misinformation, and just plain lies to accomplish their goals, rationalizing their dishonesty because of their perception of the urgency of their cause. They're also very good at bullying and the use of thinly-veiled threats. They see their view of "right" as the only correct view, and they deem all other perspectives to be immoral - and thus they must be suppressed. And worst of all, their "faith" is based on passing judgment on the conduct and ideas of others - questioning their own ideas and conduct, or discussing ideas with the opposition, is deemed to be a sign of weakness.

In short, Right-wing Catholic extremists are downright vicious.


Through most of my lifetime, I've thought that philosophical atheists present a good balance to the excesses of religious groups, serving as a sorely-needed conscience for church people. But things are different now. Since the success of the Dawkins/Hitchens demagoguery, militant atheists have taken on the tactics of the right - my "born-again atheists" moniker applies only to these militants who seek only to distort, condemn, and destroy. They use the same tactics used so insidiously by right-wing extremist Christians. Their only goal is conquest - tolerance and discussion and diversity are unacceptable to them.

And so, you see, the extremist Christians and the militant atheists have become bedfellows - very strange bedfellows, indeed.

I'll keep my place here in the middle, thankyouverymuch. Mindless, militant extremism is disgusting to me, no matter which side of the debate that extremism is found.

-Joe Offer-