once again Jon is the voice of reason, and shambles has come up with another thread that this is a common but sad experiance. This is a case of shoot the Messenger. The Jug session is worth the effort of trying to save it. I personalised the situation, which I regret, but I do not regret trying to stop the decline. I hope that as virtually everyone who uses the Jug is now aware of this thread, they might think about what is happening and become part of the cure rather than the problem. I unreservedly apologise to bill for my outburst of frustration, and bad manners.