BS: Special Jug Night

Subject: Special Jug Night
From: bill\sables
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 12:33 PM

This Wednesday 25th July we will have Micca visiting us from London. There is also a very special guest banjo player. It should be a good night. I am posting here because I might not have got rid of my virus completley and don't want to send emails just in case.
Cheers Bill

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Les from Hull
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 12:46 PM

It might save a lot of time and effort if you find some way of fixing his tankard to his person this time!

Sorry we can't make it, have a good 'un.

Les

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 12:54 PM

Can't be there but if Jon Freeman turns up buy him a drink or two from me

Roger

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 01:30 PM

You rotten buggers! I will miss it, I(we) shall be sailing down the Humber and out to sea.-Cobble you can shut up! At least I won't fall out of the toilet!

Unfortunately-I shall return next month!

If it is Jon, Bill, buy him a beer and I'll pay you later.

Cheers all.

Eric

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Diva
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 03:19 PM

Make sure he sings his prize winning song...he won a cup for it you know!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Micca
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 04:08 PM

Diva, ... and the Horse...!!!! or a Meringue?

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Diva
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 04:24 PM

Naw...its definately a Horse.....

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 07:20 PM

I Can't make it this time (I'm working), but hope to see you all in September if not before.john

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Cobble
Date: 23 Jul 01 - 08:36 PM

To my best friend Eric the Viking. GOT RID YES YES YES.

Have a good time mate Cobble.

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 24 Jul 01 - 10:37 AM

Can I have the seat of the Guest box player who flounced out? I'll come as a fiddle player instead!!!

Skipjack

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: GUEST,big phil
Date: 24 Jul 01 - 11:45 AM

hi bill see you on wednesday

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Fortunato
Date: 24 Jul 01 - 12:00 PM

Micca! Now there's a man who deserves a special jug. I don't know what the Jug is, but I wish I could be there as well to share a pint with you and my pal Micca. I'll be there is spirit. Cheers, Chance

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: smallpiper
Date: 24 Jul 01 - 12:05 PM

So is this a good night for a small piper to turn up?

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Noreen
Date: 24 Jul 01 - 12:12 PM

Sounds like there won't be room for a large piper, so yes...

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: GUEST,Banjo-Flower
Date: 24 Jul 01 - 01:43 PM

hi Bill

is this mystery banjo player really Sam Pirt with an accordion in disguise and a different hat

Gerry

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Tig
Date: 24 Jul 01 - 02:00 PM

Is Micca coming back to see if Syd has managed to get him yet MORE cider to drink?

I'm glad you posted this thread 'cos I was thinking of giving the Jug a miss this week - but there's no chance now and I might actually go earlier than usual!!!

Is he bringing Gail as well as the Holy Grail?

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Micca
Date: 24 Jul 01 - 02:49 PM

Tig, Yes, and My, how she has grown!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Big Phil
Date: 24 Jul 01 - 04:04 PM

\

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: niknak
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 06:37 AM

Will be there. Looking forward.

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: nutty
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 06:40 AM

I won't ...... boohoo
I'll be thinking of you all, though

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: GUEST,mike Cahill
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 08:40 AM

Mudcaters please don't come to the jug tonight, unless you are coming to take part in the music session that has run there for about 4 years. The place is tiny, about 30 max in each of the 2 rooms, and everyone who comes to socialise, potentially squeezes out a musician. Perhaps the time has come to have a mudcat night at the jug but please, on another night.

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: GUEST,Mike Cahill
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 04:51 PM

Well it's 9.30 and I'm back home again, my worst fears have come true we went early, but at 8.30 the place was full of strangers, most of whom had come to talk, not to play or listen. Bill what makes you think that you have the right to invite the nation to our session?

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 07:30 PM

You missed a fine piper, Mike, and the beautiful voice of Noreen, and a near punch-up to boot. It was a nice night off from melodia (apart from Patrish, who is above reproach), but there was a bad rash of accordionitis. Nice to hear multiple banjos, whistles and fiddles instead of bellow busting morris mania. Only for a change, like. It'll all be back to normal next week, mate.

Skipjack

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Cobble
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 08:24 PM

It was wonderful to see old friends, Micca with his prize winning song, Noreen and her lovely voice and Katrine who sang a pretty song. New friends too, wonderful banjo playing from Jon Freeman and pipe playing from Smallpiper. It was nice to meet Jon's Mum too. It was good to see so many visiting Mudcatters on a Wednesday night.

Cobble and Mrs. C

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Shields Folk
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 09:01 PM

What is worse an audience that doesn't listen or musicians without an audience? I wish i'd been there, but perhaps i'm the wrong sort.

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Sorcha
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 09:07 PM

Mike Cahill, perhaps you need to remember that there are no strangers, only friends you haven't met yet. Are you just a tad bit crabby, here?

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Cobble
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 09:35 PM

At 9.30pm the room had Mudcatters in (maybe one or two locals, are you going to say they should'nt be there) the room was not full of strangers. As far as I could see the only strangers to the JUG where Jon Freeman is he a stranger? and his mother. And Smallpipes A new mudcatter. This is a country pub trying to make a trade, who is MIke Cahill (guest) to say who goes and who does not, I would think that this is the landlords choice not his, after all it is living.

Cobble.

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 10:05 PM

Cobble-I agree with you entirely, Mike Cahill says "Who do you think you are, inviting people to my local" well this is a folk music site and everybody here likes folk music. If somebody were to invite a bunch of football hooligans to a folk night, I could understand if the locals complained.I also agree it is up yo the pub landlord, who can go and who can't.I would like to go to The Jug, will I still be welcome? I play tin whistle, but I'm not very good yet.john

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Cobble
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 10:07 PM

Any time you want John and welcome.

Cobble.

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 01:40 AM

Well I got nothing but a warm welcome from the Jug when Manitas and I went in June, and that was with a restless bratling in tow as well!!

Mike, you have to learn that if you want your session to evolve, as all sessions must, you have to allow new people in. I have seen long standing sessions collapse almost overnight before now because one person was too vociferous in their disapproval of visitors. If all you want to do is play music then go join a band. If you want to play music with no audience then join the Ukelele Orchestra of G Britain (only 5 people turned up at Cecil Sharp's last Friday for them.... I felt so sorry for them...). And if your session doesn't evolve then it just becomes a practice night for the melodeon players. You will end up with a totally predictable session, where everyone knows what tune is coming next and in which order and people will get sick of it. This has happened so many times, where the same 8 - 10 musicians played regularly, and always the same tunes. Visitors were tollerated but new tunes weren't. In the end, visitors stopped coming to what was essentially a closed session and it died.

Remember that a pub is just that, a PUBLIC house, and only the Landlord or their staff can say who can and cannot come in. If you start laying down the law about visitors to YOUR local, then you should expect people to start avoiding you. Sooner or later, you will end up playing to yourself in an empty room.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 01:59 AM

Cobble-Thanks, I'll try to get across when I can
Mike Cahill-I'm sure that if the landlord of The Jug knew that you were asking people to keep away, he would not be impressed!

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: GUEST,Mike Cahill
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 02:27 AM

One of my other interests is canals and waterways, I could go onto a couple of waterways newsgroups, and invite everyone in the country to the jug, to talk about boats, would that be fair on the on the other regulars of the place? although they wouldn't damage the pub, and would as far as syd would be concerned be more trade for him. I wouldn't because it would change the dynamics of the place. I have no problem with any of the Individuals who attended last night I do have a problem with bill for treating the place as a venue for his own personal fan club. Last night may have developed into a good session, but it wasn't a jug session, when has a jug session ever nearly ended up in a punch up?(skipjackK8). And as far as "what is worse, an audience that doesn't listen or musicians without an audience." That says it all! The jug is not about showing off to others, it is about a group of people who have known one another for years getting together to make music together. New people join the group, and leave the group in one's and two's, they are not transplanted on mass. I can guess what the near punch up was about, did someone not want to worship at the alter of Bill Sables? Jug sessions are not a performance they are my friends, and bill's friends, and Chris's friends playing music together, and once in a while it all comes together and the whole place is grinning like a Cheshire cat because everyone there knows they've just played a tune really well. that is not the issue, what is the issue is that bill is trying to make the jug "HIS" session. If you want to give performances bill hire a hall, and sell tickets. Scorcha if your social life was hijacked for someone else's ego trip you would be crabby too

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 02:40 AM

Well, Bill was inviting musicians, so presumably that would be a whole lot different from you inviting boaters, etc. And, he wasn't inviting just any, he was inviting Mudcatters, some of whom have already been at the Jug before. Last I checked you'd been a Mudcatter yourself for quite a ways back.

Sounds to me as if you are jealous of Bill's success and likeability. If you missed Micca, Jon Freeman, and Noreen because you were in a snit, I feel sorry for you because they are all superb musicians.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Catrin
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 02:54 AM

And I was there too. Late beacuse of a major traffic jam on the motorway, but got there in the end.

The music was beautiful, the people were welcoming and the couple of songs that were sung were delightful. (I even got a private rendition of one of Tig's stories...)

Thank you for inviting me Bill.

Cheers,

Catrin

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Sorcha
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 03:09 AM

Mike, I never get crabby about meeting new people, especially musicians or people interested in music. Bill has been in my home and is one of the most personable persons I have ever met. Not even crabby before his first cuppa.

I do not and will not ever believe that Bill himself thinks he has a "personal fan club". Your rant sounds like jealousy to me. Or like a toddler whining because he can't have ALL the candy in the store......

I did lose my "local" because the landlord decided to close a corridor of land he owned which had been used for over 100 years for moving cattle which royally pissed off the cattlemen who were regulars. That was 4 years ago and I still don't have a local.

When the pub closed for lack of business even the "bikers" were pissed off. We never excluded them even though it was a Cowboy type pub. They liked the place and kept coming back. Then,

the landlord died, and the pub was truly and seriously closed.......

Mike, get off your snit. Make some new friends called Mudcatters at the Jug.....try hard not to limit your social life to one night at one pub.......go get a life and quit bitching about one of the nicest people I have ever met.

(rant off--somebody come get the soapbox...)

Sorcha/Scorch/Orca Wail and now, apparently, Scorcha

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: GUEST,Mike Cahill
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 03:21 AM

Keep 'em coming, Unfortunatly the day job calls, I'll be back but please spare me the "Little house on the prairie" crap about friends we've not met yet

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Sorcha
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 03:48 AM

My last words on this subject--Mike, I am glad I don't know you.

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: GUEST,Patrish
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 04:05 AM

Last night at the Jug it was great to meet Micca, Jon, Noreen, Greg, and Catrin. It was also great to see Mr and Mrs Cobble, Bill, Mike and everyone else. I am so sorry that there is this bad feeling.

I would like to clear up the "punch up" incident. Some one was playing the bandit rather loudly, a person from the other end of the room decided to throw something at them (not a good idea if you are crap at throwing, not a good idea anyway) and hit my friend on the head - he was not best pleased and told the person calmly to go away - hardly a punch up.

As for the sessions being a personal fan club for Bill - I would point out that all those that came last night were warmly greeted by all(or nearly all) and Bill got no special treatment or praise.

Most of the catching up was done before the session started so the level of talk seemed no different to any wednesday night.(perhaps a bit

I really look forward to the Jug sessions. Sometimes tunes are played that I cant join in with - no matter I listen and hopefully learn. Sometimes we have a bit of a sing, and sometimes someone plays Donkey Riding - and I can join in! What I am trying to say is that the session has always made me feel I am amongst friends and I hope that it will continue to do so. Lets not fight - please
Patrish

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: GUEST,Jim McDonald
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 04:30 AM

I've not been to the Jug, and am not likely to go. This is not because of the recent spat between Bill and Mike, but because the logistics are too complicated. Everything I have heard about the place and the people and the landlord make the place sound too good to be true. So it is too good to be true.
Mike you will end up cutting off your nose to spite your face - silly man.
Patrish , live in the real world, people will not forget this bad feeling, Mike has blown it for you all by making this a public thing. I feel most sorry for the bar owner - he is the real innocent in this.
Jim McDonald

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 06:28 AM

I always thought you UK catters were a self righteous set of assholes, ha ha, now you have proved it.

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Les from Hull
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 07:02 AM

I think you'll find it's arseholes!

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 07:21 AM

Glad to confirm your inferiority complex, Infidel. This truth doesn't hurt much.

Skipjack

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 07:35 AM

Oh well, we arrived home safely. The Jug was a great pub and it was good to meet some new people and some that I hadn't seen for some time.

Mike does have (at least in part) my sympathy. The night sort of reminded me of a Friday night in the Bangor Festival where old faces meet up for the first time in a year - lots of musicians but lots of chat with everyone catching up with their hello's etc - the music rarely got going there until nearly closing time because of that but we had all Saturday and Sunday to carry on playing - the Jug jut has the Wedsnesday night.

I don't know whether it was just me and whether my problem was caused by the noise levels but when the music started, it rarely, if ever felt, like a session and there were times, I felt as if I was more in a competition with 2 accordian players than in a session.

Anyway, sorry to sound miserable. I take the night for what it was - mostly a meeting of friends and very enjoyable for that reason. For me though, if I get up that way again (distance being the problem), I will hope to be sneaking in on a good session.

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: GUEST,Mike Cahill
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 08:09 AM

I take comfort from the fact that the attacks on me come from people who don't know me (thank you for the virus whoever, my anti- virus caught it). Patricia is the only person I actually know who has commented, although I might be wrong that is the problem with nicknames. None of the regular Musicians from the jug (bar Patricia) have commented about the place being taken over. The man wanting to use the bandit, who had stuff thrown at him might have something to say isn't he one of the syd's customers? When winter comes, the new school term starts, or it just seems a bit far to travel on a cold dark night some of the new faces from far away who were there last night might not feel like coming to the Jug. If the locals have all been driven away 'cos there isn't space for them what will happen to Syd's takings then, what will happen to the session? Who will care? I will! Will you? I apologise to the person known as Scorcha; the wisecrack I made was un- called for.

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 08:50 AM

Mike, I've just re-read the thread. Why don't you take a deep breath and have a chat with Bill in private?

As for me, I wasn't up there for a meeting of people, I was up there because Bill had Sircam virus, problems with a scanner and printer and a couple of other computer problems. He emailed me asking if there was anyway I could help and I agreed, naturally choosing Wednesday because I love sessions.

The night didn't turn out anything like I had expected it to (nor did the night before when Bill was in the Norwich session - it was the worst Tuesday night I've been to with key people missing, some new people there...) - but I managed to make something of the night and came home happy.

I guess its harder when you are there every week but really and honestly, I can't help feeling that you are blowing something that, at least from my side, was caused entirely by other circumstances out of all proportion.

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: GUEST,Patrish
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 09:18 AM

Hi Mike, Yes I am Patricia
I do care about what happens at the Jug, as I said before - I really look forward to Wednesdays. I love the sessions the songs and the people. If it was overcrowded every week then it would be a real problem. Last night was crowded and a bit noisy at times.
The chap who threw money at the people on the bandit missed them and hit my mate Alan on the head. He was also starting to play tunes while someone else was playing. I feel a bit ashamed that I did not do something about it at the time.
But my overall feelings about last night are that I had a good night - I was so pleased to see everyone.
Mike, I don't think there will be many, if any repeats of last night.
I echo what Jon says - please talk to Bill
Patrish

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: bill\sables
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 09:22 AM

When Jon Freeman and I arrived at the Jug last night at approx 8-45 we found seats straight away, Mike I did notice you were sitting outside at the time. However most of the people were regular patrons of the Jug with the exception of Micca and an Accordion player who has been there a few times. This accordion player is not a member or guest on mudcat and my posting regarding the "Invitation to the World" which Mike refers to could not have attracted him as he does not even own a computer. He did, though, bring his wife and another couple of adults and two kids with him so taking up 5 non musical seats. It was also him who caused the very slight problem regarding the fruit machine, this was so slight I would think only about 4 or 5 people even noticed it. Later in the evening a new musician arrived (Smallpiper) who contributed very well to the nights music with his border pipes. Even later Noreen and Catrin, who have been to the Jug a few times before, arrived and also found seats I am sorry thet you felt you needed to leave early Mike, if you had stayed I am sure you would have had and contributed to a fine night of music and song.
Bill

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 10:39 AM

Total side track and totaly selfish incedentals:

For me, I saw real friendships last night - people genuinely pleased to meet others - probably done me a lot of good in terms of my feelings towards Mudcat lately.

I got to have a short go on a Docherty madola - all I can say is try one if you get the chance - they really are top class instruments!

Even with my comments about the music, there were highspots, Catrin singing with Noreen in harmony (doubt many would have heard Noreen's harmony - she sang it very quietly), Smallpiper, what I managed to hear of nikak on the fiddle sounded great... could continue for a while and mention others...

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: smallpiper
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 11:39 AM

Do I detect some bad feeling? Knock it on the head before it becomes so silly that it really does kill the session, which, apart from the accordian player not having a volume control and throwing things at people, I enjoyed. I found the people to be wonderfully friendly and welcoming and would love to come back again - possibly making it a regular thing, who knows?

Next session at the Hase in Hessle is on Tuesday all and I mean all are welcome - (its a bigger pub).

Nice to have met you all

John

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: bill\sables
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 12:04 PM

John, Smallpiper, It was good to meet you last night, I enjoyed your piping very much. Next time you come why not put your Highland war pipes in the car in case there are any more loud agressive accordion players there, most of us can't compete volume wise with him.
Bill

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: selby
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 02:00 PM

I wonder when you openly castigate the melodeon that you understand how the Jug session started.It was born out of a Plough stots side that practised on a Wednesday night in Haddlesy if my memory serves me correctly there where 3 meledeons 2 fiddles and 1 accordian, tunes where played and when the tunes dried up a sing song ensued that produced a song book so that everyone could join in anyone that was in at the time had songbook thrust into their hands and where encouraged to join in , I think Mrs Duck, Mouldy, Windy b or Jellybean can confirm this and correct my memory if I am wrong. I am glad that we did not go with our 10 year old MELODEON player last night and some of the anger that is been targeted at box players makes us as a family wonder should we go elsewhere. I agree with what Mike was saying at the begining that wednesday night has always been a local musician session and if we on mudcat would like to meet and have a natter should maybe look at another night. As for session etiquete you always get different tunes being played at different ends of the room due to the dynamics that is a problem of the room and no individual player.

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Tig
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 02:48 PM

It's OK for Mike to go round calling the Jug HIS local, but where is he on the other nights of the week? He doesn't seem to be in very often.

I go on a Wednesday because I enjoy the session, enjoy the crack and catch up on the gossip, including chewing out work problems with others a lot of the time - it's great for support. Sometimes I don't bother getting my bodhran out and playing, sometimes I do, it just depends on how I feel. I thought that was what Mudcat was all about!!!!!

As far as I could see it would have been a fairly quiet night without some of our friends from further away dropping in. The Ducks, Chris and Jellybean, Eric and a fair few others were all away - possibly dropping in on other sessions. If I turn up on an 'ordinary' Wednesday in the middle of winter there's often more 'Strangers' in the place AND I can't get a seat, which I could last night when I turned up at about 8.45pm.

Stop being mardy Mike, it's NOT worth it and it will only cause bad feelings without any real cause.

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: GUEST,Banjo-Flower
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 03:18 PM

as an occasional visitor from further away i think that most of the problem last night was

caused by one individual who wanted to dominate every single tune that was started and when he was't playing throwing a coin viciously when a quiet diplomatic word produced the required result much more effectively also Mike i don't know what your problem is with Bill but i for one certainly do'nt worship at his altar because as the third banjo player there last night the only difference between Bill,Jon Freeman and myself was that we knew different tunes however if you do'nt want me to turn up again just say the word and you wo'nt see me again as there are other sessions around where visitors are welcome

Gerry

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Cobble
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 03:43 PM

On the lighter side of last night, I came home 5p up from the coin thrower.

Cobble.

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Noreen
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 03:54 PM

Firstly, thanks all for making me so welcome last night. It was a lovely night, playing, singing and chatting with friends new and old. Well worth the (supposed) hour and a half's drive each way for a two hour session, which was not achieved last night due to a 40 min holdup on the motorway.

Mike, sorry that you have a problem with the way your session is going, but I think that is a separate issue from the problem you seem to have with Bill in particular, and mudcatters in general. Bill in no way hogged the session, or treated the gathering as his 'fan club'- the very idea to me is laughable. Bill took a back seat, being quietly welcoming and friendly as ever.

I'm sorry you felt you had to leave early, Mike, as I'm sure you would have enjoyed the music and the atmosphere later. It would be a hard-hearted person indeed who would not have felt the friendliness and warmth there, as mentioned by others above.

You complain about strangers who came to talk, not play or listen (who appear to have been locals, and not mudcatters), then defend the behaviour of people who were noisily using the one armed bandit while totally disregarding the singing going in in the same very small room. (It was me singing and I understand someone getting upset by such behaviour. The throwing of coins across a crowded bar to draw attention to the fact that they were being inconsiderate was, however, not such a good idea...) The mudcatters present were without exception singers, players or attentive listeners, surely exactly who you want to attract to any session?

Much more I could say, but those were the main points I wanted to address. If you are a member, Mike, please feel free to PM me to discuss any of this. Hope to meet you at some stage, either at the Jug or at another Gathering.

And thanks agian, all, for another wonderful Jug evening.

Noreen

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Noreen
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 03:58 PM

Nice one, Cobble... :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 04:39 PM

Here I've been wishing I could find a way to get myself to The Jug; not so sure now.

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Noreen
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 04:53 PM

Your loss, anonymous GUEST.

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 05:25 PM

"Anyway, sorry to sound miserable. I take the night for what it was - mostly a meeting of friends and very enjoyable for that reason."

"Well, Bill was inviting musicians, so presumably that would be a whole lot different from you inviting boaters, etc. And, he wasn't inviting just any, he was inviting Mudcatters,"

"I go on a Wednesday because I enjoy the session, enjoy the crack and catch up on the gossip, including chewing out work problems with others a lot of the time - it's great for support."

"If all you want to do is play music then go join a band. If you want to play music with no audience then join the Ukelele Orchestra of G Britain"

Just a few quotes, You really are missing the plot, It is not a social event it is a music session. If you want a mudcat social evening then start one as someone who has been a regular contributor to mudcat for 3 or 4 years I would support it, But on a different night or at a different venue, get off the coat tails of the session

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: GUEST,Mike Cahill
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 05:26 PM

sorry I forgot to put my name to that last posting

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Noreen
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 06:30 PM

So do you not make friends with people with whom you play in a session, Mike? Do you not exchange the occasional pleasantry, particularly with someone you've not seen for a while? Or would you choose to, as it sounds here, sit and play tunes robotically alongside others who do the same thing? I've never been to a session like that, and can't imagine it being any fun.

Or do you have a problem with the personnel, which also seems possible from what you have said?

It is the session that we have been invited to, and I can't really see your problem, sorry, though I have tried.

Noreen

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Sorcha
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 06:35 PM

Apology accepted, but I wish you would learn to spell my name--it is Sorcha, not Scorcha. Pronounced Sork-(h)ah. But I also answer to Sor-sha. Sorry for my snotty little comment too.

"It is not a social event it is a music session." Excuse me? I really thought that a session was a social event. Mine are..........Your idea of a session sounds more like a rehearsal to me. Someplace where NOTHING goes on except tunes. Glad I don't go to what Mike considers sessions.

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 06:49 PM

Mike, if you are going to quote me, at least quote me in context. I was one of very few who did express some sympathy for your view point and had made it clear enough that my aim was to get to a SESSION while on what was in a sense a business trip.

I fear that it is you, not me, who has lost the plot by being so caught up in your own bitching that you can't even comprehend what others are saying.

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Jeri
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 06:52 PM

That's it. Mike has an idea of what it should be which is different from what it is or what others think it should be.

Our sessions here vary quite a bit from week to week. Sometimes there's an awful lot of socialising, and other times it's straight music. Sometimes, folks (almost always regulars) are rude and talk while others sing, other times there can be complete silence during a song. We often have new musicians show up, and they're welcomed. I've never heard one complaint about "outsiders." They often contribute new songs and tunes, and the variety kicks up the energy level.

Mike, it seems like you're saying no one should be allowed to invite friends to this session - have I got that right? Maybe you'd be better off in an "invitation only" session, because it sure sounds like your the only person who doesn't want anyone new showing up at the Jug.

You get too grumpy about things, you miss some good music. Been there, done that, and still do it occasionally!

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Noreen
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 06:53 PM

When are you coming to the Jug, Sorcha? :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Sorcha
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 06:57 PM

I wish.........sob sob sob. (Mike would probably kick me out,(joking, ok). Fare from NY or East Coast to London is cheap. Fare from Denver to NY is NOT!! And then there is poor Maggie--she is not going in the baggage hold!

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: harpgirl
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 07:38 PM

...well, I'm no longer saying anything about sessions here in Florida or anywhere else, but Jon....have you left yet or are you already back or what? What's up with that? Are you feeling better???Your admirer who refused to say goodbye....hg

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: ericsymonds
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 08:15 PM

I never experienced any friction, musical or otherwise, in the Jug,and I am sorry to read that it should occur,ever!

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 27 Jul 01 - 01:45 AM

Hi Bill, this may not be the place for it, but my Mudcat PM thing is down. Just passing on a message. Johnny Collins says "hello".

Cheers

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: GUEST,Mike Cahill
Date: 27 Jul 01 - 03:27 AM

John I'm sorry you think that your statement was taken out of context, having re-read your post I think that the sentence I used stands on it's own as a complete statement, if anything I could have clipped the few words at the front, Your contribution is welcomed, what you have said has been reasonable, and honest, and you told it as you saw it. Please read my previous posting "Dear Dr. Mudcat", which was started a week or so before this "spat" erupted. To be honest it was aimed at some of the other mudcatters (I class myself as one) who come to the Jug on a Wednesday's it was felt, (and not just by me), Bill endorsed my views, that the balance had swung too far from a music session to a talking group. Regular musicians had started to drop off, forced out by not being able to get a seat, and by not being able to hear what they and others were playing. Some of the newer people had instruments with them, but often as a prop. Mudcat is by definition a talking shop, it owes it's existence to the forum. If it was just a Tune Database it would probably get 100 hit's a day world wide. I was hoping that some of the worst offenders might read the thread, and moderate the volume of their chatter. To see within days that Bill was advertising Nationally, and internationally in a place that would only be seen by a group of people that we had already identified as causing a problem beggared belief. No attempt had been made to contact any local musicians, (as far as I'm aware) it was just compounding the problem. I'm not suggesting that people sit in silence for the entire evening, That posting of Bill's was unreasonable, and unfair to the other users of the jug, who are not represented here if they don't have a computer. We were lucky that only 15 or so mudcatters did turn up, There could have been many more, and that would have buggered up any chance of a session. I'm sorry that you and other musicians have been caught up in this, and hope that they will come to the jug in future, but if you want to turn the session into a chat room with background music then think again. As I've said repeatedly if people want to sit and chat, start a Mudcat night on a different night, Sid would love that. It doesn't have to be either / or.

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 27 Jul 01 - 03:38 AM

Mile-Maybe a seperate mudcat would be a good idea,BTW I think you meant Jon!

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 Jul 01 - 03:44 AM

I think he meant Syd too, instead of Sid.......

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 27 Jul 01 - 03:54 AM

I think you are right sarah BG

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: GUEST,Jardin
Date: 27 Jul 01 - 04:14 AM

Well, you UK Mudcatters are having a little problem. I suggest you move to another bar and don't tell Mike the miserable where you are going. If I ever came across, I think I would give the Jug a miss. We are supposed to be all grown up and not waste time squabbling . Get back to your Music.

PS I met someone the other day who met Bill on his recent trip - said he was quiet and unassuming - not like the egocentric god that you describe Mike . Are you sure you are talking aboout the same man? Don't you think a public apology to Bill is in order. Remember your manners.

Jardin

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 27 Jul 01 - 06:00 AM

Well we will have to agree to disagree on your use of my quote to indicate an example of "missing the plot". In simpler English, I went to the Jug hoping for a session, didn't find much of a session for reasons given but at least enjoyed the company. This is rather different to me thinking that the Jug is or should be a "social event" (which I take to mean a place for lots of chat as a session is in fact a social event - just the focus in a session is music).

Although it does appear that the bulk of the trouble in the Jug on Wednesday was caused by a particular group of locals, I have to say that as a general principle, I think it unwise risk turning an established session into a "Mudcat event".

I would take any Mudcatter visiting Norfolk to any of the events I go to localy and they would be made welcome but I would not go as far as trying to enourage numbers of people from further away to meet up there on a regular basis and I feel I would risk making myself unpopular if I did. I also recognise LTS's comments on needing new faces - it is essential for the health of a session - it's just a question of balance and in some cases a little control (e.g. the Norwich session I go to is strictly Irish instrumental and while I enjoy other things, I would hate to see the basic nature of the session changed - besides that, Ken and Maria would probably kill me, there are other nights for other events...) , or at least I think so.

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jul 01 - 07:40 AM

Someone earlier on suggested that there be another night for mudcat but you lot chose to ignore it and didn't read what someone else had sad

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 27 Jul 01 - 08:22 AM

In his initial thread Bill made it clear he was posting because his e-mail was having problems.It didn't read to me like a general invitation, just alerting the regulars to the two visitors. As a non-Jugger it is none of my business, but I would respectfully suggest that as all parties (and the guests) have now given their views, any remaining issues could be sorted out face to face over a pint of Syd's (what I'm told is splendid) ale?
Even a folk club usually welcomes visitors, how a less formal gathering can remain exclusive is unclear,as has been said. I'll shut up now and hope common sense prevails, it has always sounded like a venue to be encouraged.
RtS (...but then, what do I know?)

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Micca
Date: 27 Jul 01 - 11:04 AM

Pictures from the above mentioned Special Night at the Jug are viewable here.. Click here
I have included the time stamp from my camera on some of them (and from others I havent included) from which it can clearly be seen that throughout the evening there was space and seating available for any musicians to join that might have wished to. I have always felt very welcome at the Jug by both existing and new friends whether mudcatters or not, Otherwise why would I bother to travel from London for an overnight stop?? to Gossip?, can do that on the Internet, without leaving home ,thank you...The reason is simple, to hear friends play their music, and to sing with them ( I love to sing) and if the talk gets in the way of the music, the "talkers" went(or were sent) in the other bar this has been MY experience (at the Jug as well as elsewhere) any way...
My Thanks to all who made me feel welcome... Especially to Bill and his wife Lorna for their hospitality,
and to those xenphobes who think so parochially... well, I think you represent the antithesis of everything the Mudcat represents, which is striving (very sucessfully) to bring people with skills and interests in a wide range of Folk and Roots Music , together to play, sing, talk, and interact, and thus to promote a better understanding of Life and OUR Music... and I am sorry if my visit offended you , but If the choice is offending you or enjoying visiting the Jug and friends....

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: GUEST,Mike Cahill
Date: 27 Jul 01 - 06:43 PM

Jon having read the post I made that contained the quote from you I Think you were right, and I had got you out of context, sorry. My biggest regret about Wednesday is that I didn't get a chance to speak to you, your posts have been to the point, and reasonable. One of the things that has surprised me through this thread is that although several people including myself have suggested a separate mudcat night this has never been followed up even though people have found time to comment about me mis-spelling SYD, and JON. Now if I was a conspiracy theorist I would be imagining lots of E-mails flying around with "Don't get involved with the separate night for mudcat thread" could this be because some people feel that they already have a mudcat night on Wednesdays? It's strange that all this blew up at the start of Chris' two week holiday in Scotland (Chris for those who don't know the set-up at the jug usually leads the sessions, and is a consistent attendee), or am I just Paranoid? It would hardly be a mudcat mom's apple pie Thing to do now would it? Moving in on an existing session, hardly an honourable thing to do.. There is a separate thread running at the moment "When a session gets Hijacked". Some of you might be interested in giving it a look. Being constantly slated is a depressing experience and at times I have felt like not bothering to keep replying to this thread, the standard of some of the postings is not exactly stimulating, and I'm not all that proud of some of the things I've said in the heat of the moment. but then a couple of people one of whom has stopped going recently because of the changes have taken the trouble to phone me and give me support. If the session at the jug continues, I'll be there (unless of course I've been barred)

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: The Shambles
Date: 27 Jul 01 - 06:49 PM

"I have to say that as a general principle, I think it unwise risk turning an established session into a "Mudcat event".

Not saying that this night was an attempt to do this but should not the good common sense above, from one who was present deserve to be the final (public) word on this?

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Noreen
Date: 27 Jul 01 - 07:40 PM

There is no conspiracy, Mike, nor was the session hijacked on Wednesday, and since you weren't there for most of it, I can't see how you can complain about what happened when you weren't there. Can't you see that several other people could have a different point of view from yours about this session?I haven't slated you, but tried to understand your concerns and be reasonable. Being constantly ignored is also a depressing experience. Several people have tried to reason with you in this thread, but you have ignored points made or taken bits for your own ends. That doesn't encourage me to keep trying...

Thanks for the pictures, Micca- really good, happy one of Mrs Cobble, Patrish and Catrin.

Noreen

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 27 Jul 01 - 08:09 PM

Obviously not the last word...

Mike, for the conspiracy theory to hold true, Bill would have had to have deliberately got the Sircam thingy, a) to get me up there and b) to persuade him to start this thread as he didn't want to risk infecting and of his email contacts.

From my side, I am very dissapointed to see something that I still feel was caused by other circumstances and involved me trying to help a FRIEND out (admittedly trying to get some good music along the line) turned into this.

I repeat that I sympathise with some of your concerns but I feel that matters have been blown out of all proportion.

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 27 Jul 01 - 09:51 PM

Possibly not relevant.

I help to run a folk club in Swinton , Lancashire....We have been running 19 years ....same pub same night. Last week we were hijacked by a crowd of strangers (about 12 of them ) who haven't been before. They were not in the same party , just co-incidence. One insisted on singing a more cabaret than folk song during the singers session.

Some of them talked during performers singing and they were not aware (even though notices are posted) of usual FC etiquette.

At half time (we have a raffle and a break) my daughters partner came in to the pub who I see only rarely because they live 200 miles away. So I handed the running over to Dave T Gnome and stood with Andrew in the bar.

The regulars came out of the club at 1130 or so and earholed me with what a great night it had been and how much the "incomers" had provided in song and laughter and chat and "why did I miss out on it all".

Smell the coffee Mike....we are not involved in an exclusive club , where only the players (and only good players at that) are welcomed and then only if they play.....and only if they have been attending regularly for the last decade...and don't talk....

I have only been once to the jug (last years gathering) so I have no right to comment on the regular session , but at our club we welcome all and sundry , all the time , regardless of what any individual feels.....It's not an individual thing..Thats why we gather each Monday as a group.

Finally....I hope anything I have said is taken in the spirit of open discussion.

Spot.

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: kendall
Date: 28 Jul 01 - 09:42 AM

I was thinking of visiting the Jug while I'm over there, but, now, I dont know. I dont go to American bars because of the many cases of testosterone poisoning. Did you ever see that button that says INSTANT ASSHOLE, JUST ADD ALCOHOL ?? Or, was this a very rare night? 11 yeas ago, I did a tour of the pubs and folk clubs in Scotland, and, was very pleased to see that people there were considerate and had not forgotten their manners. Is that how it usually is in England?

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: GUEST,Cretinous Yahoo
Date: 28 Jul 01 - 09:46 AM

No wonder you lost the war, you dont even know how to conduct a good knock down drag out fight. In yankee bars, we dont throw coins, we throw punches! (sometimes, bullets) You guys are just not trying.

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: GUEST,april, jim , bill and sue
Date: 28 Jul 01 - 10:10 AM

Hi mike, we were not at the jug but do come often to listen and chat to friends. long live the jug and the music sessions, we hope that everyone will still come along to a very enjoyable night. And to see Harvey!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: smallpiper
Date: 28 Jul 01 - 10:58 AM

Great Pictures Micca!

I felt that I was made really welcome at the Jug, now having re-read the threat I'm not so sure that I'll be coming back. Have your session keep it local and have another night for mudcatters.

I'll stick to my session at THe Hase in Hessle and still will welcome allcomers.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Jul 01 - 12:27 PM

Well, as the saying goes, there's no such thing as a stranger, just someone you haven't been able to quarrel with yet.

That didn't look a crowded bar to me from Micca's photies. Everyone seems to have a seat available. A sedate session I'd have said from the pictures.

I read in the paper yesterday that they are going to scrap the WWF wrestling on the telly. Maybe it's time for the Jug to make a bid for a docu-soap slot to replace it.

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: GUEST,Mike Cahill
Date: 29 Jul 01 - 06:21 AM

The causes of the spat at the Jug is a symptom of a new world order for the first time in mans history people with strong feelings on any subject will have access to other like minded people all over the world almost instantly. At the same time good transport networks mean that people can move relatively large distances easily and cheaply This has been used negatively by football hooligans, and anarchists, and benignly by social groups. The problem is that our culture hasn't been able to keep pace with the speed of technological development. People as individuals and groups are naturally protective of their space, wether or not this is a good thing is irrelevant, it's a fact. For various reasons Places change, and sometimes folk clubs/sessions lose their venue,(this could be relevant to the Jug sooner than some think) in the past the organisers would have gone round some of the other local pubs within a couple of miles. The members of the club would be relative locals, and some would have changed their allegiances and the new venue would become their local. Some of the regulars of the old club would drop out, "can't stand that landlord/beer/pub", and the club would have gained a few new members from the pubs established customers. The difference is when people are travelling a distance the chance of the folk club venue becoming someone's regular haunt decreases. The Landlord will do some mental arithmetic if the amount he takes on the club night exceeds the amount he loses because George who is in 6 nights a week and drinks 5 pints a night moves to the Cat and Fiddle up the road 'cos he can't cope with the crush on club night. If the takings are good, and he's gaining a few new locals to replace George then he'll go with it. If all the people coming to the club are travelling, with the drink driving laws the won't drink much, (to balance this the profit margin on soft drinks is higher), they are only going to come in on club nights, They are not part of the community so might discourage more regular trade. With these factors the equation becomes more complicated, and will make it more difficult for clubs to survive.

People say "if you came to my club you would be made welcome". Think about it, most clubs/ sessions would be ecstatic to recruit 15-20 new members, in ones, and twos over a six month period, but a block of 15 -20 people, an established group, with it's own group dynamics all turning up together with it's own "in jokes" and group personality, would they be welcomed then? There would be a feeling that it was a take over bid , and that would be what it would be no matter how well intentioned, the new group would want to make the place more like what they used to have. Even at folk festivals where everyone is in the melting pot for the weekend, have you never experienced the devastating effect that the Abbercrombie Folk Club(Apologies if there is an abbercrombie folk club) has when they all turn up at the singers session, and go through their routine. I want mudcat to be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 29 Jul 01 - 06:53 AM

Mike I won't be at the Jug (probably ever) as I don't know where it is, don't have the time, and couldn't get there anyway as I don't have a car or drive
More importantly there are loads of local things for local people around here that I don't have the time to go to
I would love to hear Noreen sing though so I can see the attraction of travelling great distances
I think I will have to give that Paltalk thing a go again though, its probably the best way to hear mudcatters while having a drink at home

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Jul 01 - 07:14 AM

Good transport networks mean that people can move relatively large distances easily and cheaply

Well, that may apply to aeroplanes, and car drivers. But public transport of any kind isn't too brilliant in this country anyway. And as the crackdown on drinking and driving builds up, and the accepted alcohol level for a driver goes down to pretty well zero, the attraction of getting your pubtime in within walking distance will grow.

So I don't think it's by any means clear that long-distance sessions in pubs are going to catch on. What I think is more likely is that in many places anyway, it's going to be relatively local. Walking distance of a few people, a fairly short drive for the others, with informal arrangements under which one person who isn't drinking that night picks up a few people.

Long-distance sessions, if they develop, with people coming in from far and near for eyeballing and jamming with internet friends, are more likely to be based in non-drinking establishments like coffee bars, I'd say.

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Cobble
Date: 29 Jul 01 - 07:21 AM

Mike tell us where you live and distance from the Jug.

Cobble.

This is my last posting on the subject.

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: GUEST,Mike Cahill
Date: 29 Jul 01 - 08:52 AM

Castleford, about 5 to 7 miles from the jug

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Jeri
Date: 29 Jul 01 - 10:24 AM

Having been in a similar situation to what Mike's talking about, I'll make one posting and then butt out.

Mike started off with blaming Bill for the problems. Bill invited folks, but I'm sure his focus was on music. He can't be held responsible for what folks do when they get there - they are responsible, but attacking all of them is not going to solve any problems.

This whole discussion became not about the session and what went wrong, but about personalities.

People who talk loudly can't hear anything but themselves. They don't notice what's going on around them. This is just a fact - at least I believe so. A friendly "would you mind keeping your voice down" may have worked a lot better than not saying anything at the time only to lash out at the lot of them in public, on the internet.

Folks who are arguing about this, well, if you want to take sides and argue, it's your prerogative. If you want to communicate, you have to listen for the bits of information contained in the angry words. Folks are focussing on the anger instead of the reason for it.

Back to me. The conversation sometimes gets so loud in our session that some singers can't sing and some instruments can't be heard, and he who is loudest wins. It becomes a fight for the dominance of sound, not a session. Once volume (whether from talkers or from accordion players) becomes the most important quality of the music, many musicians who don't particularly care for volume will quit playing. We have had sessions end early because of noise. If this were to escalate and continue every week, I think the session would eventually die.

In short, the simple answer is to ask people to keep it down or hold conversations elsewhere, and for the talkers to realise they really do interfere with people's enjoyment of the music and agree to limit the noise.

(And I'm now running off to hide before both sides of this issue aim flamethrowers at me.)

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 29 Jul 01 - 10:42 AM

Ah Jeri - a voice of sanity and reason in the midst of all the shit slinging.....

Hopefully some of the better comments have been taken on board by all parties, the explainations explained and a sufficient amount of sulking on all sides. Can we knock it on the head now please??

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: selby
Date: 29 Jul 01 - 11:03 AM

I feel rather sadened that a good local session is in danger of being destroyed for all the wrong reasons. For those of you who havn't been to the Jug it is a very narrow room, if as sometimes happens that one set of musicians are at one end with another at the other end with people talking in the middle mayhem usual takes place with both sets of musicians attempting to start tunes. The session is a slight victim of its own success and people come to listen to the local diddly diddly band. Because we ALL enjoy it from time to time we ALL mention it to other musicians to come and join in. From my understanding and I am sure you will correct me if I am wrong an open invite has gone out globally to invite any one to come to the session another individual has seen this invite and realised that the small room can become overun with non musicians at what is a local session not a mudcat gathering and requested people not to come. This has now developed into something in my opinion that the session neither wants or needs.I hope that all the mormal musicians who read mudcat will attempt to attend and lets get it back to what it was originaly a musician's session, I hope to see other madcatters there in the future at another gathering and individuals turn up unanounced as they wish on session nights but please please please remember this is first and foremost a local session that a good proportion of attendees are mudcatters and not a mudcat night. The session as I stated earlier developed from a group of dancers and it has changed in many ways so Skipjack I find your attack on thumping melodeons unwarrented as without them the session would have never started.

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 29 Jul 01 - 11:31 AM

Thanks from me Selby, I'd certainly like to visit the Jug on a normal session night at some point in the future.

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Jul 01 - 12:01 PM

"I hope to see other madcatters "

Every now and then an inspired mis-spelling slips through, and that is one of them.

I alas look forward to seeing other madcatters on various occasions. An dif ever I'm in the vicibnity of The Jug on a Wednesday I'll be there all right. But I'll behave myself.

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Noreen
Date: 29 Jul 01 - 09:00 PM

I wasn't going to get involved further in this thread, but I can't let deliberate misinformation pass unchallenged.

...but a block of 15 -20 people, an established group, with it's own group dynamics all turning up together...

would indeed be intolerable, Mike, but that is not what happened on this evening at the Jug, or on any other, as far as I am aware. If you had stayed for the session and were actually commenting on events that happened, fair enough, but don't try and make your point by misleading people.

Noreen

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: GUEST,Mike Cahill
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 03:12 AM

How many mudcatters live within a 1 hour drive of the jug? the fact that a larger proportion of them didn't come may be down to my request for them not to, the fact remains that an open invite was posted, and that wasn't to the benefit of the session. This post by it's very nature is one sided, the non mudcat people have had no voice.

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 05:48 AM

Mike I think you have made your point, it was generally a good one and has been noted publicly. What needs to be done now, is best done in private

As far as I am aware this was all taking place in a PUBLIC house, where there is a permanent open invitation given by the Licensee?

There are many things in life that are out of our control, when we don't accept this, we tend to come off more than a little bruised.

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 06:36 AM

So to take Jeri's line, what were the problems?

1: An incredibly loud and dominant accordian player.

2: Noise levels. There was an awful lot of chatter.

3: Seating. I don't think anyone had a problem finding a seat but the musicians were pretty scattered around the room. The Jug is not the easiest of rooms to organise but I think things would have been easier if those who wanted to join in tunes together were able to occupy one area.

What were the effects to me? At its WORST point, Bill asked me to play the Lark In The Morning with him and I couldn't here him play. Bill was playing a tenor banjo with a mastertone type construction - not the sort of instrument you would expect to be struggling for volume - and was sat a few feet to my left. All I could hear was the accordian from the other end of the room and a lot of background noise. Bill actually gave up before the tune was finished and went away muttering something, I assume because he found playing impossible.

Jeri said call for hush, but perhaps some consideration should be given without that. There were calls for hush for the singers which were obeyed but the noise just went back up again after.

This is just a general question that has bugged me in many sessions over the years: Why should the singers be treated to silence but the musicains be relegated to some form of background noise for people to talk over? Do people not realise that for some of us, it is either impossible or very hard work to make ourselves heard under these conditions and that you can't (or at least I can't) play as well or enjoy the music when every bit of energy goes into playing as loudly as possible?

Perhaps people don't realise how loudly they are talking but they have a good clue. The noise levels when the calls for hush for the singer is made are the noise levels the musicians were contending with.

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: bill\sables
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 06:50 AM

Thank you Mike for the email you sent me on Thursday apologizing for your personal attack on me and stating that you would ring me that night. Have you lost my phone number? I am still waiting for your call and it is now Monday. I feel that the apology should have been placed on these threads where the attack occurred.
I noticed that your first post to this thread was 8 hours before your second post referring to the room being full of strangers.. It seems to me therefore that you had no intention of staying that night and only turned up to continue your protest.
You might not have noticed, but if you go to my very first posting on this thread you would see that I mentioned the Jug. I did not say where the Jug was located. Did all these "Strangers" follow some mystical star in the East to observe the birth of the "Bill Sables Fan Club". Or were they transported down by Scotty from the Star Ship Enterprise. Or would it be wiser to think that they all knew where the Jug was because they were already regular visitors to the Jug
Mike, you did not point out that almost all of the regular players at the session are indeed mudcat members or people who use mudcat as a source for songs. In fact Chris who you refer to as the originator of the session is none other than Windy B and his wife is Jellybeam and his son is Ian Stephenson. Others who were there at the beginning were Geoff the Duck, and Mrs Duck as well as Selby and Mouldy.
Perhaps you should send a letter to the Doncaster real ale magazine also as this is where Syd advertises the Jug and plugs the Wednesday night music night which I'm sure has far more influence on the visitors to the pub than does a post on mudcat.
If you were in the habit of visiting the Jug at 8-30 every week instead of your usual 9-30 you would have noticed that the room is usually full of strangers who have had a meal and have generally left by about 8-45.
When I arrived at 8-45 on Wednesday night with Jon Freeman I saw the regulars; Jezabel with her bodrhan, Patrish, with her melodeon, Alan (Patrish's friend) with his guitar, Banjo Flower with his banjo, Skipjack with his fiddle and accordion, Norman with his accordion, Coble and his wife, with harmonica and song book, and the other accordion player from Doncaster who was mentioned earlier with his group of friends, and Chris Coxon who is there every week anyway, hardly a group of strangers who had come to talk and not to play or listen. The only non-regular was in fact Micca who had phoned me to ask for a bed for the night.
As far as I can see the only two regulars who this thread attracted were Badger and Tig who were intending not to come but who usually come along every week anyway. With the exception of Norman and the other accordion player all of the regular players are either members or readers of mudcat threads.
Unfortunately you have caused so much bad feeling by your personal attack on me that I doubt the Jug session will ever be the same again. You might just as well have put a "Private Room" notice on the door stating that only regular local musicians are welcome and signed it Mike Cahill.
You will, no doubt be pleased to see that Kendall, along with a few others, will not now visit the Jug, I only hope that Syd sees it the same way as you do and I hope you are proud of what you have done.

Bill

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 08:15 AM

Bill, with respect, I don't think the "following a Star" anology to the Jug is valid. I'm not disputing your counts of regulars/locals or in anyway suggesting that your post brought any non regulars to the Jug but I think it is incredibly naive to suggest that others may not know the location of the Jug.

As it has been mentioned in a number of threads and was in fact the venue for a UK Mudcat gathering, I would suggest it location is (at least vaguely) known internationally by Mudcatters as I would suggest the Press Room in NH may be (a bit hard to tell as Jeri is a close friend so I tend to read threads about the venue).

What I'm trying to say and hopefully outside this argument (the implications good or bad reach further) is that we should all at least be realistic enough to see that when we talk about venues here and give locations (even if in past threads) we are to some degree putting a venue on an international map.

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: mooman
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 10:16 AM

Just arrived back from my holiday and have seen all this! Maybe I shouldn't really post as I'm not a Jug regular (long way from Belgium!) and I've only been to the wonderful Jug once (for this year's Yorkshire Gathering which I enjoyed enormously).

From the outside, it appears to me that the Jug has a really excellent and vibrant music session going and has done for many years now. I hope very much to be able to visit again in the not too distant future (we might be able to pass through in mid-November as I am driving up to Edinburgh from Hull for a wedding on the following Friday. Sessions like the Jug's are rare (at least for me now as an expat from Ireland and the UK) and it is a pity to read some of the things that have been posted in this thread.

I helped start off a session in London in 1976 which I was subsequently a regular at for 15 years and which, despite my absence for 10 years now, is still going strong. I saw many comings and goings in that time and also most of the the problems ever described here at Mudcat in threads about sessions. Nevertheless, goodwill and acceptance of the odd spat and foible always saw us through these difficulties. I even turned up there a few weeks ago for the first time in 10 years. One of the musicians looked up and said "Hello Richard! Haven't seen you for a few weeks...!" and we resumed the conversation we'd been halfway through 10 years earlier! I even remembered to bring the little store of real tortoiseshell picks I'd promised another of the musicians before I'd left for Belgium. Which was just as well as he was down to the butt-end of his last one!

I hope that goodwill and acceptance will also keep the Jug on it's wonderful track. And please don't make it so strict that I won't be able to give Noreen and Patrish, and Eric, Skipjack and Bill (sorry lads...ladies first!) a great big hug each if I do turn up, and shake hands with other new friends before we get stuck into some great music.

All the best

mooman (TAFKA mcmoo)

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: GUEST,Sam Pirt
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 10:51 AM

Well I have been busy at festivals and stuff for the past three weeks or so and have been unable to get to 'The Jug' or mudcat for the matter, and I come back to find this!! I am suprised.

The Jug, as far as I am concerned, is a music session that takes place in a Pub (or Public House) which means it is an open session to which anyone may attend (mudcatter, non mudcatter or member of the public or non musician)

It has always been for me and still is your average music session in a pub, it is just many people who now attend it are mudcatters. The session came first.

I know that I would always want to promote my local session so new players can discover it and it can continue and develope, so mudcat would seem quite an appropriate place to discuss such a session.

The day that the jug becomes a 'select few' of musicians that looks down on any newcomers be they audience or musicians is the day I will stop coming to the Jug.

I want to meet new musicians, friends and learn new tunes and songs as that for me is what folkmusic is all about.

Cheers, Sam

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: GUEST,Mike Cahill
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 11:49 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: bill\sables
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 11:53 AM

Yopu seem to have a lot to say Mike?

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Tig
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 12:02 PM

The only reason I am a Mudcat is because I went to the session at the Jug, met Bill and found out about the site when I mentioned to him I had a new computer!!!

I am first and foremost a bodhran player looking for somewhere to play - be it session in pub or festival. I found the Jug. Since then I have made many new friends from there, many of whom are Mudcats, purely because people told us about it (I'm guilty of encouraging new people to come to the session and to join Mudcat. should I be barred?)

The Jug is now also my adopted 'Local' although I live about 5 miles away. Syd and Val are great people and Syd keeps an excellent pint. Don't make life any harder for them than it is. Keeping a small pub doesn't make a fortune so anyone who gets put off affects Syd's livelyhood.

Nowhere did I see any attempt to 'take over' the session by Mudcats. It's just that a lot of us happen to use the site and admit to being one. It's a shame Mike felt it was happening, and on a quiet night too!

ANY musician, storyteller, singer or even listener (which is what we all do, even if we talk sometimes) is MORE THAN welcome to the session. And to try the Jug other times too.

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: smallpiper
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 12:03 PM

Here here sam! So why haven't you been at the Hase for a while then?

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: GUEST,mike Cahill
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 12:04 PM

I attempted to call you on the only no. I have 01977 683357, no. unobtainable. I then e-mailed both your netscape and AOL accounts asking you for your new no. The posting to your AOL account was rejected, I assumed you didn't want to speak to me.I have just looked more closely at the AOL post I had sent it to My mistake, This is how wars begin.

Most of the other points you raise have been answered in other posts

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: GUEST,mike cahill
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 12:09 PM

that doesn't make any sense because i included an e-mail address between sent it to, and My mistake the system has screened it out

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 12:18 PM

I see a lot of comments one way or other but little coment about the night itself except that it was good from many who are defending (with justification) Bill S and defending the principles of sessions being open to all...

Am I to take it that situations like the one I described above when I couldn't hear Bill Sables play his Samik from about 6ft away are normal for this session (and even according to tig - on a quiet night)? - or is this an acceptable normal for sessions and I'm being unrealistic despite having been to sessions for years? or where there perhaps problems on this particular night (whether caused by visiting 'catters or not) that may need looking into?

From my side, I'm just hoping I was unlucky enough to have picked on a bad night (and one that was probably not caused by us visiting 'catters) as I would like to give the session another try at some point in the future.

I am only say this because I can't figure what is going on and feel too much is a loyalty issue and few are being open about the night itself and its problems.

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: GUEST,Sam Pirt
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 12:27 PM

smallpiper - purly due to a distinct lack of transport, the session is great!!

Cheers, Sam

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: bill\sables
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 12:29 PM

Smallpiper, Sam and I will be visiting the Hase on Tuesday night. I hope you don't get into trouble for inviting us.
Bill

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Fortunato
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 01:48 PM

Micca, you handsome devil, you're looking fine. Thanks for the pictures. Regards, Chance

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 02:28 PM

Mike, not wishing to pour more oil on troubled waters. Living in Hull, I would loved to have come to the Jug night but could not because of another session, so please strike me of your list of would be sympathisers who kept away. I am under the impression that you must never have visited another pub other than your own local, for fear of upsettng the regulars. since I doubt that to be the case, and since the regulars would probably have been used to a musical Wednesday at the Jug, it would seem more sense to expand an existing session rather than have an extra night -now that really might drive the locals away. Most folk clubs have websites and are keen to attract more attendees rather than keep them away -whilst I accept that a session may be slightly different I do not think that highlighting a one off evening and accusing Bill in this matter adds any credibility to your views. Also be aware that we do not necessarily eat breath and sleep mudcat. It is an enhancement to our social network for sure, but we do not travel around in packs. Please feel invited this Sunday 2 pm onwards, to the open session at Nellies in Beverley. Come if your a musician, come if you want to listen or come if your a mudcatter-it's all the same to us!

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 03:40 PM

Ah well, I've answered my own question by going back as Mike suggested and reading "Dear Dr Mudcat". It opens:

Subject: Dear Dr. Mudcat
From: GUEST,Mike Cahill
Date: 20-Jul-01 - 02:05 AM

About 4 years ago I started going to a music session in a small village in Yorkshire. It was brilliant, a wide variety of musicians of all levels of ability, playing all sorts of instruments, in a small cosy pub. Beginners were made welcome, and tunes were played at a moderate speed so that everyone could join in. There was gaps in the proceedings when people chatted but when the music was playing, those not playing listened. Unfortunately the place became quite well known, and is a victim of its own success. Now if your not there before 9pm it's standing room only, and there isn't much of that. Musicians are spread around the room because the can't sit together, little islands of Music in a sea of chatter. The majority now aren't musicians, but are there because of the music. The number and variety of musicians, is reducing, because a) they can't get a seat, and b) they can't hear what they, or the others are playing because of the constant chatter from people. We play louder, they shout! It is becoming a "box " night 'cos nothing else can cut through the din, and recently we have had problems with two tunes being played because people on one side of the room can't hear what's playing on the other side, this is in a room that seats 30 Max! It's awful to see the distruction of what was a great session. Anyone have any suggestions?

The above description and certainly seems to describe a night like I experienced in the jug. Now the odd thing is when I read further through the posts, after a post by McGrath where he suspects the original post may have been referring to Mudcat, I come accross this post setting him straight:

Subject: RE: Dear Dr. Mudcat
From: bill\sables
Date: 20-Jul-01 - 08:05 AM

Mc Grath, the session mentioned in the opeming thread is not about mudcat but it could well be. The one Mike Cahill refers to is genuine. I have been there and have noticed exactly the sane thing as Mike describes. Bill

This does seem to indicate to me that most of what I have read in this thread is based on loyalties than actual happenings in the Jug and little has been done with all the attacking/defending to address what I've now even found Bill Sables agreeing on, there are problems in that session.

I reckon if all the personal shit from both sides were taken out of this and people were at least honest rather than taking up attacking/defensive stances (which are probably preventing people looking at the underlying reality), perhaps something could be done for the good of all.

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 04:06 PM

Mike, not wishing to pour more oil on troubled waters.

I think you've got your metaphors mixed up, Icle Dorritt, since what you then proceeded to do was in fact to pir oil on the troubled waters - which means to try to calm down a troubled situation.

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 06:49 PM

Since worries about emails were the reason bill started this thread anyway, maybe the moral, is in such cases the best thing to do is use PMs. Less spam, fewer viruses (touch wood).

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: GUEST,Banjo-flower
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 06:59 PM

hi Small piper I'sorry i'm a bit hazy about hessle (boom boom) is it to the east or west of Hull do you have the post code so i could look it up on Multimap BTW would i be welcome or what

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: The Shambles
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 07:04 PM

I have just realised and remembered, with a touch of guilt, reading the Dear Dr Mudcat reference and response that Jon posted, This old thread Can you help with this session?.

It was a bit spooky? It is worth a read now but not I think refreshing. It was a long time ago and seems even longer.

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 10:00 PM

I'll be in Yorkshire October 19-29 for the Captain Cook Maritime Festival. I've been in touch with a very welcoming person at The Jug, "Sue," through a few brief e-mails. She mentioned that there is usually big Mudcat gathering at the Jug at the end of the festival. I look forward to being there and to meeting 'Catters, if a session there is happening that week. What sort of music is played there? I'll be singing chanteys in a few spots at the festival, and presenting a slide show on the SF Maritime National Historical Park, where I work as an interpretive park ranger. I'll also have my fiddle along. I play Scottish and some Irish tunes, but I'm happy to listen in if the music there is different. Since I haven't been there, or to England before, I won't comment on this particular situation, but I will say that I enjoy sessions here at home which are both musical and social gatherings. We have a few sets of tunes, then talk for a bit, then start some more tunes. The house quiets down when there are singers, who the session leader (Shay Black) calls on at several times during the night. Look, whatever the flow of things is at The Jug, I'll try to be aware of it and go with it. I get the feeling that this spat is not a normal state of affairs, and I look forward to a night there.

-chanteyranger

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: GUEST,Mike Cahill
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 01:53 AM

once again Jon is the voice of reason, and shambles has come up with another thread that this is a common but sad experiance. This is a case of shoot the Messenger. The Jug session is worth the effort of trying to save it. I personalised the situation, which I regret, but I do not regret trying to stop the decline. I hope that as virtually everyone who uses the Jug is now aware of this thread, they might think about what is happening and become part of the cure rather than the problem. I unreservedly apologise to bill for my outburst of frustration, and bad manners.

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: GUEST,Guest - Jim McDonald
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 05:24 AM

Have just looked through this thread to see that I apparantly have posted a message on this thread on the 26th July could I just say that the message posted was not from this J.McD (who now has the mudcat name of MC Fat) I am the Jim formerly of Doncaster , now resident of Sheffield with the business card of Singer, Guitarist and Fat B*astard. I have been to the Jug on a number of occasions and really enjoyed the music, welcome and food. Spoke to Bill at Warwick this weekend. Sort out this mess folks and whilst you do remember that Folk Music should be inclusive not exclusive. I remember years ago being involved in Wath Folk Club, one singers night I followed a couple up the stairs to the club room the guy was carrying a Martin guitar case the girl a Takemine so I figured they might be reasonable players. I dumped my guitar and went to get a pint as I'm going upstairs these two are coming down guitars in hand faces like thunder.I asked the doorwoman (also a committe member) what was wrong, she informed they had come from Manchester to play but that the list of singers was full with the statement 'well you've got look after your regulars haven't you?' I was furious 'they' (the committee or clique) wanted to put on the same regulars and not give a platform to someone who may have been really good. The point of this story is guests can bring a freshness to any session, bear this is mind. I'd rather have a night in my sessions where the audience don't hear me all night but it is given over to new sounds and songs. Jim (but you can now call me MC Fat)

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 06:04 AM

McGrath of Harlow -context is everything isn't it?. Sorry if you felt my posting was inflammatory. Not intended to be, and the invitation to Mike is genuine as it is to anyone else wo wants to turn up at Nellies on Sunday-it's a cracking session with people coming from far and near. Funnily enough, folk club last night consisted of a few regulars and not many visitors (due to holidays and no other reason I can assure you) and it was flat as a pancake. Come one come all I say.

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 06:19 AM

Gerry, the Hase is on North side of the square in Hessle, over the road from the churches.

It ain't blue, but it's at:-

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?grid2mapi?x=503194&y=426489&title=StreetMap+-+Hessle,+East+Riding+of+Yorkshire+HU13+[Other+Town]&back=~&url=~&arrow=N&nolocal=N&bimage=~&zoom=0&largeuk=N&adkey=~,GRIDCONVERT&searchType=3&value=hessle

Hope to make it over, if I can afford the visa on the bridge.

Skipjack

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: GUEST,Dita (at work)
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 06:38 AM

This thread makes very sad reading. Come on guys and galls don't let this misunderstanding destroy what seems to have been a great session, god knows they are hard enough to find, and nurture. Next Jug night buy each other a drink, and if you can stand it, give each other a hug.

On a practial note would it be possible, as is done at other sessions, on session night to have a table or three reserved for musicians from 8:30 onwards? That way the players are all grouped together, and can hear each other. In my experiance the landlord has no problem with this, some will even put reserved notices on the table so that visitors know the score, and the punters are happy to stand and let players join in the session.

love, john.

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 06:47 AM

Sometimes the irony detector kicks in inappropriately. No I wasn't thinking you were being inflammatory, Icklee Dorrit, qyuite thebnreverse. I was trying to say that, since in fact you were being conciliatory, you had got your metaphors mixed up.

It's quite a common misunderstanding with the expression "oil on troubled waters" - I suppose because while the image is in fcat of pouring the oil as a way of calming down the choppy water, the image people have of it is of pollution and of someone putting a match to it.

Mind you when we do set out to be conciliatory, sometimes that is just what seems to happen.

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: GUEST,Jim McDonald
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 09:23 AM

Hey, I'm the real Jim and also a Fat B******
They do say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
Have a good night at the Jug all you UK catters
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 09:34 AM

I certainly hope they do Mike. When it comes to sessions, I am a musician first and formost as that is where I get my most pleasure (not that I don't enjoy songs and meeting people). Whith the talent that was there that night and knowing of the talent of some of those missing, the Jug clearly has the potential of being excellent musically and a good place for musicians of all ability - sounds like what you said it was - it could still be!

I hope that next time I get up that way which probably won't be until next year, I come away thinking the music (ok and the singing) was fantastic.

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: GUEST,chanteyranger
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 11:58 AM

What kind of music is played at the sessions?

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: smallpiper
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 11:59 AM

Bajo-flower, Bill\sable there will be no trouble at the Hase - there is plenty of room for musicians and others but I would be greatful if the 'others' can stick to the carpeted areas of the pub then the musos can all sit together - the 'others' will still be able to hear the music and see the musicians so won't feel left out. see you there. John

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 12:09 PM

McGrath -mmm I know what you mean.

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Noreen
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 01:29 PM

For gerry and others, Skipjack's link to a map of Hessle.... wow! *grin*

And since this discussion is carrying on, in a more positive direction, let's move over to Special Jug Night part 2 and answer chanteyranger's question?

Noreen

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 02:46 PM

Hi Noreen !!

Of the Jug I know nothing, but here is a little about the music last night in the Dog and Partridge
Only a few were people 'performing' as many are on holiday at the moment. Its in an irish pub and the music is also usually irish
A visitor from mexico (i think) gave us a very nice tune on Brian Howards Harp, a very nice rhythm and a nice change
At the end of the evening Bob and Suzie, who also run a folk club elsewhere, played some tunes in a more english style on instruments borrowed from the other players
The usual suspects played a range of tunes and sang songs all night and I played along where possible
The night started off quiet in every sense, few musicians or audience, and got louder as the room filled up. All the problems mentioned about sessions have occured at this one I think and it really is hard to play anything when you can't hear yourself over the conversation
In fact the evening began with a couple of people discussing session etiquette after two people fell out the week before over one drumming along while the other tried to play a tune
The people chatting last night were not trying to be rude, they were making friends, having a good time and regularly applauding . It was the first visit for one man and he enjoyed the evening so much he is bringing his mum next week
The fact is that people like nice background music/singing in the pub but aren't there to sit in silence like they would for a performance
I have been guilty of this myself when people I wanted to talk to arrive and there wasn't a break in the music

From now on I will try to share and learn a few tunes early in the night before it gets noisy, a kind of musician gathering, and just join in with whatevers being played later

I was put in my place for being out of tune too (which was fair enough though I think I was playing the wrong tune/repeat rather than being out of tune),and got some requests to play (though I think the requests were from people who had not heard my playing and who were fairly drunk)

I ended the night by waiting for the bus on West Street, I often see a fairly drunken Jim McDonald there.........I think he posted on the other thread ( does he always wear the same jumper??)
I still haven't heard him sing perhaps one day he will give us a song at the D&P?

Roger

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: GUEST,MC Fat (aka Jim McDonald)
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 04:25 AM

Roger I resemble that remark and I quite like 'fairly drunken' it conjours up images I mean for instance can you be unfairly drunk ? (the big boys made me do it mister) but for your info Roger I too play at the D&P every other Wed with Smiley Dave Young on fiddle, on Sat aft in Fagans (except Jul & Aug) and at the Palm Tree in Walkley on Thursdays you can come and hear me sing, drunken or otherwise and any of these venues plus I nip in the odd Mon, Fri and Sat nights to Fagans depending on committments, money etc. Introduce yourself you appear to already know my jumper. Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Special Jug Night
From: GUEST,Banjo-Flower
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 08:01 AM

Thanks for the directions Gregg i had a lovely day in Whitby

cheers Gerry