LEJ--nice to be in agreement wich'ya. I think our earlier disagreement was mostly semantic... Katlaughing--Yes, everyone has to deal with the labels other people use to describe them: gays and lesbians are a case in point. But if we preserve those labels *outside* the realm of responding to labellers, then we become reactionary: we are letting our enemies define us. Gays and lesbians, unfortunately, have often been a case in point there too. Hank--Murderers are upsetting, yes. But it sounds like you are limiting your view of possible worlds to the platter that the State presents: cops vs. robbers. Welfare vs. Poverty. 'Defense' vs. Occupation. Might I suggest that there are other options?..............I've only voted once, and it was Republican. Goes to show.