Help: Kits to make instruments???

Subject: Kits to make instruments???
From: WyoWoman
Date: 17 May 02 - 10:57 PM

Do any of you know about good kits to make your own instruments, such as dulcimer, guitar, drums, etc.? And if you know about them have you ever actually made an instrument from a kit? What was your experience? And what would you recommend if someone wanted to make her/his own instrument? Where do you start, assuming that you want to create and actual, usable, good-quality instrument? Are there plans available, and if so, where?

Wondering Wyo, ww

Subject: RE: Help: Kits to make instruments???
From: khandu
Date: 17 May 02 - 11:32 PM

Yes, I made a hammered dulcimer from a kit. It was not a simple operation, in fact it was much more involved and a bit more difficult than I expected. However, I plugged on and finally finished it. It turned out quite well. (i am certain that it could not hold a candle to one of Spaw's hand-made jewels!)Fortunately, all the instructions were thorough and easily understood.

My son-in-law built an electric guitar from a kit. It has a great sound but lacks good action.

Recommendations? Patience and persistance...and having a wood-working shop would also be a tremendous help!

It is quite satisfying to play on an instrument that you have built even it is from a kit!

khandu

Subject: RE: Help: Kits to make instruments???
From: GUEST,cookieless anahootz
Date: 17 May 02 - 11:49 PM

Kits for the amateur luthier

Subject: RE: Help: Kits to make instruments???
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 May 02 - 02:23 AM

Wyo -

I've put together two mountain dulcimers from kits we got from Cripple Creek. The kits had good components, but I found that results were better if you ignore the instructions that come with them. Assembly is pretty obvious, and no really special tools are needed.

If you have a particular instrument in mind, a kit can be a good way to get the parts. While I've made "scratch" instruments with better acoustics, I've found I can't afford good wood at my local suppliers - and you get fairly decent parts in the kits.

(We'd a showed 'em to ya if ya hadn't weaseled out of makin' Winfield last year.)

John

Subject: RE: Help: Kits to make instruments???
From: alison
Date: 18 May 02 - 03:06 AM

my hubby just made me a beautiful 29 string harp from plans got here at musicmaker's kits..... they also have guitars, dulcimers, hurdy gurdys etc....

he went to an evening class to use their woodworking tools... but he found it very easy and did a really good job....

we were advised to just get the plans and buy the wood ourselves here as sometimes the wood arrives warped from the shipping, otherwise you can buy the wood and stuff ready to just glue together.....

he's trying to make up his mind what to make next!!

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Help: Kits to make instruments???
From: 53
Date: 18 May 02 - 06:53 PM

Elderly Music has kits for a lot of different instruments.

Subject: RE: Help: Kits to make instruments???
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 May 02 - 07:39 PM

Sorry I didn't see this earlier Pansy, but alison has it. I haven't used but a few kits for things and they were mainly in the role of helping a friend/acquaintance. I have seen the finished product of several and had the chance to see the instructions from some also. For my own 2 cents, go with MusicMaker Kits. They are above average woods and seemingly well selected, very complete, and have excellent instructions. Also they have done a good bit of final work for you which for someone not geared up to do a lot of woodworking is certainly an advantage.

I saw one of their autoharps last year and had no idea it was a kit although it looked like one of theirs. The guy had done a fine job with it, thrown in a few personal touches, and came away with an attractive and nice sounding autoharp.

They'd be my pick anyway.

And unless you are a decent woodworker many of the plans I've seen are pretty short on instructions and clarifications. You maybe are better than that, but some aren't.....and the plans vary widely. Most assume you have a shop and know what you're doing. Again, MusicMaker seems to do a better job here as well.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: Kits to make instruments???
From: Peg
Date: 19 May 02 - 01:24 AM

Tony Cuffe played a harp he made from a kit (gads, what poor folk musician can afford a "real" one?) and it sounded great!

Subject: RE: Help: Kits to make instruments???
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 May 02 - 02:20 AM

Joel Casto, a local man here, has built 5 Martins from kits. He says he doesn't know what to do- he can't bear to sell them, but he can't stop building them.

They look and sound very good- at least the two that I've seen. He said the interesting thing is that no two are alike, all have different 'voices'.

Subject: RE: Help: Kits to make instruments???
From: Ned Ludd
Date: 19 May 02 - 02:54 AM

Be careful with kits. There are outlets in the U.K. selling kits with incmplete instructions, and deliberately 'odd' methods with the idea that you get partway through and have to go back for help(for a small charge of course.) An alternative is to find a good book on Making. You then get to choose the best parts and materials and end up with a better instrument.

Subject: RE: Help: Kits to make instruments???
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 19 May 02 - 10:05 AM

Like khandu I built a hammered dulcimer from a kit. It was harder to do than I expected, but I enjoyed the building and finishing. Unfortunately, in the end I had an instrument whose sound was not entirely satisfactory to my ears. Unfortunately, for me that was all that mattered. I learned the hard way that an amateur luthier can work quite hard to produce, at best, a mediocre instrument. Looking back I wonder what in the world I was thinking. I have since left instrument building to the professionals.

If you know exactly what sound you want, and you care sufficiently, buy a completed instrument from a pro. Otherwise, building an instrument can be a lot of fun if you like that sort of thing.

Subject: RE: Help: Kits to make instruments???
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 May 02 - 10:17 AM

Russ, when I first started building HD's I built really ugly prototypes to simply try different things inside the box as well as rails and stuff. Then I built my best sounding one with decent woods. I still had to make some changes, but what I learned in those first 15 or so "uglies" made the process quite easy. I agree with you that with a kit, you never really know. The guy with the autoharp had a nice sounding instrument but that's not always the case and like I said, he'd added a few personal touches as well and for all I know some of them may have been inside.

BTW, I went through the same process with lap dulcimers and though I'm happy with what I have, I could be happier still.........

I'd still recommend MusicMaker Kits as again, what I've seen makes them a good option.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: Kits to make instruments???
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 19 May 02 - 10:30 AM

Spaw, sounds like you went the Howie Mitchell route.

I wasn't interested in reinventing the wheel myself, so one was enough. Partly as a result of my experience with my home-built, my flirtation with hammered dulcimers never became a lasting relationship. I never took my own advice and bought one from a pro.

As for lap dulcimers...

IMHO it is hard enough to find a luthier-built lap dulcimer that sounds good to my ears. I've played quite a few gorgeous dulcimers with all the tonal quality of a two-by-four with strings. I would consider the chances of a kit-built lap dulcimer's sounding truly good (as opposed to "OK") to be close to nil.

Subject: RE: Help: Kits to make instruments???
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 May 02 - 10:40 AM

LOL.....Rus have you considered that maybe you just don't like the things to begin with? (:<))

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: Kits to make instruments???
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 19 May 02 - 10:47 AM

Spaw,

Well....that thought did cross my mind, but that wasn't it. Honest.

Subject: RE: Help: Kits to make instruments???
From: GUEST
Date: 19 May 02 - 11:13 AM

...it depends on whether the satisfaction of building your own instrument figures into the equation, and how much of a premium you place on your time. The guitar kits cost about the same price for the same quality as what you could buy off the rack - the only difference being the satisfaction of spending some hours glueing the thing together so that you could say, "I assembled it myself."

Subject: RE: Help: Kits to make instruments???
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 19 May 02 - 04:06 PM

Wyo -

If you are just interested in "trying it yourself," I'd suggest starting with something simple.

I'd discount drums and whistles since, while they're easy enough to build, they don't normally get much use as "musical instruments." You bang on them - or tweet a few times - but there's little you can do with them that will be welcome in most groups. Of course if you intend to use them with a bunch of kids ...

The lap dulcimer is probably the simplest thing you can put together that approaches being "musically useful." The main things you get from a kit are two pieces of bent wood, a headpiece with some kind of "slot" to make it easy to run the strings in, and a finger board with the slots cut for the frets. The only tools you need are a small screwdriver or two, a sharp knife, something to trim the frets to length (diagonal wire cutters) and about 102 spring type clothespins (for glue clamps). A "coffee table" sized work space is "adequate."

You will want a small file to "finish" the frets, and a small bottle of glue. A decent small saw (coping saw, maybe) will be a help.

The thing that distinguishes the "well made" from the "slopped together" is mostly in how cleanly you cut the rough edges off, and the kind and quality of finish(es) you apply. Set-up on the "completed" instrument determines whether it's actually "playable and musical," but fortunately that's something you can "tweak" almost indefinitely.

As you go to more "complex" instruments, you get more complex parts in the kit, but will also run into more things that "need a touch" that requires more specialized tools and/or skill. With most reasonably decent kits, the extra touches can be done with simple tools - if you apply liberal amounts of detrmination and ingenuity.

Several people I've known have put together "kits," mostly mountain dulcimers, and the invariable comment has been "I can do it better next time." Frequently one kit leads to another kit. The exeption has been with those who consulted with other (more experienced?) kit builders during their own assembly, to avoid the most common "oops moments."

(There is a second exception - a couple of guys with absolutely no musical ability who were pleased that their kits came out "pretty." Both of these instruments played pretty well too.)

Start with something simple, to learn a little "kitmanship," and you'll enjoy it. Learn a little about putting the things together, and you'll probably prefer working from "scratch."

John

Subject: RE: Help: Kits to make instruments???
From: Helen
Date: 19 May 02 - 07:10 PM

I'm really happy with my Cambria 34 which was made by an instrument maker friend of mine from Markwood plans - available from Laurie & Glenn Hill of Mountain Glen Harps.

http://members.aol.com/harpkits/cambria.htm

Markwood Heavenly Strings & Cases 809 W First Street Phoenix, Oregon; 97535 USA Phone: [phone] fax: [phone] E-mail us here: [e-mail]

You can get just the plans, or the plans & hardware, i.e. levers, bridge pins etc, or all of that plus a spruce soundboard, or kits in various stages of completion.

I'd highly recommend getting the strings they have for this plan because the harp is built specifically for the string gauges and composition and has a lovely sound. In fact the reason I chose that harp design was because of a series of articles I read in a Folk Harp Journal over 10 years ago, written by the harp designer, Mark Bolles, about the relationship between the strings and the harp's design.

The design of the harp itself makes it easier to make than some other harps I've seen because the soundbox is a simple right-angled box shape, no tapering, no curves.

Helen

Subject: RE: Help: Kits to make instruments???
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 20 May 02 - 10:45 AM

Wyo, my caveats are ONLY about the sound of the finished product.

Everyone gives the lap dulcimer as an example of a doable home-made instrument. I just wanted express a word caution. Even such a simple instrument can have its share of unpleasant surprises. A number of professional dulcimer makers I have spoken with admit that dulcimers are quite unpredictable. You can try to build two identical dulcimers simultaneously and still get two completely different sounds. As an amateur you might end up with an instrument to die for or one to die of. However, I know any number of lap dulcimer players who love their instruments with the tonal qualities of bricks.

Subject: RE: Help: Kits to make instruments???
From: Gypsy
Date: 20 May 02 - 11:36 AM

Definitly advocate MusicMakers. Have done severall of their kits, including the Hurdy Gurdy. Now that is something i can play with, without taking a mortgage out on the house. And have never had problems with missing pieces, warped wood, etc. They really are top of the line.

Subject: RE: Help: Kits to make instruments???
From: WyoWoman
Date: 20 May 02 - 08:30 PM

I'm not actually planning on making anything myself, but am considering a magazine article on making your own music from kits, to accompany (as it were..) an article on music as a community builder, and a sidebar on rules for jamming. The value of making music, as opposed to just listening to someone else perform.

Catspaw, darlin' -- have I offended you or something? I keep emailing and PMing you and you never write, you never call ...

John -- I know I weinied out on y'all at Winfield. I have already requested vacation time for this year and fully intend to spend at least three days or so there. So WATCH OUT! I had a great time this past weekend at the Santa Fe Trails Bluegrass Festival over to Bonner Springs, with GaryT and Mrs. GaryT and other jamsters from Kansas City. So I can't wait for a few days in the Kansas sun -- or muck, as is often the case, i'm told -- with lots of other 'Catters and hangers-on.

And the rest of youse, if I either get someone else to write the article, or i write it myself, I'll probably PM each of you to see if I can use any of your quotes, if'n that'd be ok. My editor asked that I do a story on kits, but I suspected that maybe they might be worse than just finding a blueprint and going for it your own darned self. But where do you get blueprints? And how do you know what wood to buy, etc.?

I'm thinking I'll focus on maybe four instruments -- maybe a mandolin, guitar, dulcimer and ??? fiddle??? what? I do want it to be something that people can actually play when they're done. I agree about the whistles, but maybe a homemade bodhran? Might get you kicked out of respectable jams in at least a creative way?

WW

Subject: RE: Help: Kits to make instruments???
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 20 May 02 - 11:37 PM

WW

When I was in high school I decided I wanted to learn the mountain dulcimer. I bought a Here Music kit (then based in Minneapolis) which I found through an ad in Sing Out. I wound up building two Here dulcimer kits, and doing another from scratch. Then I met some good instrument builders. My wood working skills were nowhere close to theirs. I decided I was better off playing instruments and appreciating the work that went into them, rather than trying to build them.

I really appreciate the time and skill it takes to do a good musical instrument, but have to admit that it is a skill I do not possess.

Subject: RE: Help: Kits to make instruments???
From: BlueJay
Date: 21 May 02 - 04:21 AM

WyoWoman- Aha, we get to the real point of the thread, being an article for TMEN. I nearly didn't respond to this thread, because I've only made one instrument from a kit, a balalaika, and it seemed that my limited success didn't really measure up to other folks experiences.

I bought the kit at a yard sale for five dollars, and spent weeks in assembly. It was missing the back, so I made a back from a drawer bottom from an old dresser. (It was really a decent piece of laminate, thin, flat and pretty).

It really was a labor of love. I spent a lot of time scraping glue off of the joints, staining, sanding and restaining. I even built a makeshift finishing chamber out of plastic sheeting, to try and keep dust off the fresh lacquer.

It actually turned out OK, but I eventually tired of it and sold it one of my garage sales for twenty bucks. Not much of a ROI, but the whole thing is still a fond memory.

The main point of my reply to your thread is that I heartily applaud your effort to bring more music, in any way, to The Mother Earth News. I have been a reader of TMEN nearly since it's inception. While I have valued the magazine's mission, I have always thought that music has been notoriously unrepresented in TMEN, and it seems that you are trying to change that. HOORAH!

Here's a little TMEN tip- Do you want a perfect shop apron? Take an old pair of bib overalls, cut them off at the knees and rip the inseams out. Sew the legs together flat in front. Cut the back off, but make sure and leave on the shoulder harness which goes around your neck, and also leave the waist-strap, which secures the waist. Best damn apron I've ever had, and contributed by a TMEN reader about twenty years ago. (Sorry, I don't know which issue). Mine is a great apron, plenty of pockets above and below, and made a good use of overalls I was going to throw away anyway.

Go, WyoWoman. I'd bet you would have a lot of support from the Mudcat Cafe to try introducing more music into the venerable Mother Earth News. Thanks, BlueJay

Subject: RE: Help: Kits to make instruments???
From: Grab
Date: 21 May 02 - 02:22 PM

Does anyone know of decent kit manufacturers in the UK, BTW? The two posted above are both in the US. I fancy both a decent electric and a decent acoustic, and I damn sure can't afford to pay Fender or Martin prices for them.

Graham.

Subject: RE: Help: Kits to make instruments???
From: Willie-O
Date: 21 May 02 - 03:02 PM

Gruhn Guitars currently lists this in its inventory. Seems a well put together kit of superior materials is not to be sneezed at.

AA5661 Martin copy (possibly assembled from kit) Custom-D, EXC, 14 fret slot head neck, style 45 ornamentation, Brazilian rosewood back and sides, neck block stamped with replica 1950 serial number, late 1960's Martin HC......$2750

I made a mountain dulcimer from a kit many years ago. Gave it away. It had a plywood top which was really a pity, it played okay but the sound wasn't great. I forgot the kit supplier.

Most memorable moment in its construction was when I was trying to make some weird hole with a funky drill press. Got a hank of my hair caught in the drive belt which pulled my head abruptly up to the pulley. Fortunately a fuse blew at that point. Ouch.

Willie-O
shorter haired and slightly wiser

Subject: RE: Help: Kits to make instruments???
From: GUEST,WyoWoman from Work
Date: 21 May 02 - 06:55 PM

Well, my thinking was that the whole idea of community has been brought to the foreground by the events of 9/11 and we're sort of clueless about it. Community is one of the strongest elements in having healthy, happy kids and adults, but many of us don't know how to get from here to there.

My own satisfaction and happiness -- and I suspect that of many others -- is greatly influenced by the quality of my relations with other people. I don't know of a better way to foster those kinds of connections than through music. Look at the amazing variety of people who end up at most jams. Often you don't know anything about them -- about their politics or religion or philosophy or finances. Just that you all enjoy the same kind of music, and if you don't, you at least lend a respectful ear to others.

Sounds suspiciously like community to me.

I also have this pet peeve that music in our culture has become an almost exclusively performance dominated thing. One person sings/plays/performs and thousands of others are supposed to clap their hands appreciatively, meanwhile letting their own musical aspirations die a'bornin' in their hearts. Why should just a handful -- and not necessarily the most talented, at that -- have all the fun?

If *I* ruled the world, I'd make sure every man, woman and child had access to making their own music, preferably in connection with other people. Then if they wanted to sing or play for the rest of their lives, they could -- and if they didn't take to it, they wouldn't have to go any further. But at least they'd have the option of expressing themselves that way. Same with the visual arts -- I think everyone ought to at least have the possiblity of that kind of expression available to them, and we might see a much different world. there's so much in the human heart that wants to be let out, and so few acceptable ways of doing so. Stifling creativity makes people crazy-in-a-bad-way, as so many of our children are so eagerly demonstrating for us.

Consuming angry art might make people mean (e.g. the Columbine shooters), but creating it stands a chance of letting something out that's rapidly turning putrid in the soul. At least we could give it a try. ...

Was that, like, a rant?

Anyway, I'm preaching to the choir here, but at least I can maybe get an Amen!

ww

Subject: RE: Help: Kits to make instruments???
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 May 02 - 07:14 PM

Whistles not a useful instrument? Clearly you can't be into Irish music, where they're the next best thing to a fiddle to lift things out of the mundane.

I've never understood how it seems that whistles aren't popular in much American music that I've come across.

Subject: RE: Help: Kits to make instruments???
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 21 May 02 - 08:14 PM

MGoH -

I'm surprised it took you two days to jump on that!

Whistles are a fine instrument - once you learn how to play one a little.

The problem with whistles as a "kit" project is that it's a very tough job to make one that will play in tune - and if the kit's already got the parts that are tuned, it's too simple a kit to be much fun for any but those with low expectations.

As far as popularity in my part of the world, too many people learn a little bit about how to blow one, but never really learn how to play it. And because you can get one "on the cheap," too many of the people who show up with them are in the "I want to be friendly, but I don't really want to have to work at it" category. It's pretty easy for anyone who's played clarinet, sax, flute, or oboe to figure out how to make the notes - but then they've gotta learn the tunes...

We have a couple of people in my area who are pretty good with a whistle as far as fingering the "right" notes, but they never seem to be able to get in tune with each other, much less with the other players. We enjoy their performances - in reasonable doses, but they tend of their own accord to yield to the other instruments.

A contributing problem here is that even our "Irish" groups don't seem to have any coherent concept of "traditional Irish music," and the "commercial/sanitized" stuff they play is adapted heavily to the guitar, and leaves out (any time-space for) most of the decorations the whistle might add.

At least my comment about the whistle was aimed at the horror of having new hordes of "squeekers" unleashed by giving them kits - not by any objection to musicians, folk or otherwise, who happen to use a whistle to play music that they enjoy. I've got a good dozen whistles myself, although I don't play one nearly often enough to be any good at it.

And lest someone else object - I don't mind a bodhran or two, if their players are musically inclined; but please don't teach a bunch of people how to make war drums - unless you're sending them to a war (or a playground).

WyoWoman alluded to including some hints on "etiquette," so maybe I worry too much(?)

John

Subject: RE: Help: Kits to make instruments???
From: selby
Date: 22 May 02 - 01:09 PM

I was put onto a firm in America by a guy who used them to build a banjo,I personaly got the plans and timber to make a fiddle.The firm is called Stewart-Mcdonald they are in a place called Athens in USA no problems with them at all, they do have a web site but when I did it was with catalogues.I was highly delighted with their service using credit card transactions. Keith

Subject: RE: Help: Kits to make instruments???
From: selby
Date: 22 May 02 - 01:10 PM

I forgot to mention that I am in the UK Keith

Subject: RE: Help: Kits to make instruments???
From: Mark Clark
Date: 18 Nov 02 - 12:07 PM

This one isn't a kit but it does include step-by-step instructions for making flutes. It's on Rick Miller's Web site. I ran across this while looking for a browser plugin to display ABC files.

If anyone builds one of these, I'll be interested in a report on how it worked out.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Help: Kits to make instruments???
From: CraigS
Date: 18 Nov 02 - 07:04 PM

I went on holiday to Hungary, where they play dulcimers which are the ancestors of the Appalachian lap dulcimer. Apart from the fact that the Hungarian dulcimers have lots more strings (usually three on the first course, and the other three courses are always doubled), the Hungarians always play them on a substantial table, which improves the sound immensely over playing them on the lap. The sound of guitars can improve by such contact, too - when Mario Maccaferri broke his hand and had to make his living in theatres, he played the guitars on substantial stands. My experience of kits is that you get what you buy and make the best you can of it. Don't expect an amazing product if the kit is plywood, or if your handicraft skills have never been beyond changing lightbulbs. On the other hand, I've seen some very good guitars produced from nightclasses - which are effectively kits with expert help.

Subject: RE: Help: Kits to make instruments???
From: banjoman
Date: 19 Nov 02 - 06:38 AM

No one has mentioned Kit Banjos. I currently play a Gold Tone which was made up from a kit (although I had some help) It is a fine instrument, and after a bit of fiddling about to suit my style it is probably one of the best I have used, possibly excluding the Vega.
It requires a bit of carpentry know how, the ability to drill a few holes straight and a bit of french polish. It is difficult to tell it apart from their ready mades without looking very closely at it.

Its like cooking a meal - it always tastes better when you cook it yourself.

Good hunting

Subject: RE: Help: Kits to make instruments???
From: weerover
Date: 19 Nov 02 - 08:23 AM

I'm with McGrath on the whistle front. Also you don't need a kit to make them, just a tube, piece of wood for a mouthpiece and a drill. I've made them from odds and ends I've picked up, including a mop handle and an aluminium pool cue. I made a low "E" from 1-inch copper plumbing pipe which has an excellent tone (though a bit short on volume) and I am far from being a handyman.

wr