Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Aug 19 - 11:40 AM

Apologies for yesterday's wayward diversion.
It distracted me from posting this enjoyable article on JJ Cale's
pragmatic attitude to guitar collecting...

https://www.musicradar.com/news/on-jj-cale-he-would-buy-a-dollar100-guitar-then-if-he-messed-it-up-by-drilling-holes-it-was-okay-that-was-the-cost-of-educating-himself

Copy and paste link to get there..

Blue Clicky not working with this one...

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 06 Aug 19 - 11:09 AM

Leenia, excuse me for asking, but were you in a previous incarnation, Deirdre?

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 06 Aug 19 - 10:42 AM

Sorry, but my last post isn't empty. I have covered the landscape with my new collection of white bird feathers. Just wanted to show y'all.

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 06 Aug 19 - 10:36 AM

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Aug 19 - 02:19 PM

.. do what...???

would that be your imagined negativity from me to you...

Which could perhaps become self-fulfilling if you continue in this way...

At the moment I'm still only teasing a cranky mudcat mate,
who I otherwise respect as a musician...

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Aug 19 - 02:11 PM

no feud, just a reaction to your negativity.cop on be more positive about people

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Aug 19 - 09:34 AM

Dick - My comment in that post was tongue in cheek..
That intention is as obvious as possible,
without big colourful smiley emoticons to aid the special needs hard of understanding..

You are purposely taking it too literally so you can keep up your pointless feud...

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Aug 19 - 09:26 AM

Dick - FFS.. how long can you hold onto a petty grudge.. over multiple threads...!!!???

You've become a right resentful old misery..

Can you even remember what I did to upset you so much...???

Because I'm buggered if I can... or give a toss..

You're the one making yourself look so silly...

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: GUEST,Ray
Date: 05 Aug 19 - 03:51 AM

Some of us play because we have to (in order to make a living) whilst others play because we want to (I made a better living elsewhere which is why I can buy exactly what I want).

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Aug 19 - 03:32 AM

depends where you are playing, and also the acoustics of the room. and also whether it is a noisy pub or a quiet folk club. too many didactic opinions., here and agressive mosh pit comments, that reveal jealousy and chips on shoulders
example this comment from punk folk rocker
However, a local folkie turning up for a pub or house session with several valuable vintage guitars,
well that's just a rich bragging pillock... why shouldnt a local folkie have quality instruments?

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: Mooh
Date: 04 Aug 19 - 08:42 PM

Some audience members CAN hear the difference between guitars, and it makes a difference to them. In any event, at times it behooves the performer to educate the audience by exposing them to the sounds. As for the Variax...it depends on how convincing you want your sound to be...and it certainly doesn't convince me. Also, sometimes other band members are to be considered. For example, the concertina player in my duo much prefers the sound of one guitar over others, and a singer I used to play with would often say she preferred one guitar over others depending on the song. Having played a lot of acoustic house concerts I can honestly say that in the right circumstances switching up guitars can be appreciated by the audience.

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: GUEST,Some bloke
Date: 04 Aug 19 - 07:37 AM

True. It has little to do with what the audience hears, but how it affects your playing. (Although if you are blessed with ears, you will notice that a Lowden sounds very different to something out of your gran’s catalogue, and your enjoyment of the performance will be more for it. The difference is more acoustically or mic’d than plugged in, but it’s there.)

My 000 and my 0M may look similar to an audience but the different neck profile, nut width and string pitch means the 000 plays better with a pick and the 0M better at finger picking. I play each better, more accurately and fluidly when playing to their strengths. I have a couple of guitars that are passable at both and a few that play far better when played to their strengths.

That said, if you can afford lots of guitars, buy lots of guitars. If it pisses a few sad people off, win win.

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: Tony Rees
Date: 03 Aug 19 - 06:31 PM

RE my post above (larger house)... larger perhaps but not more expensive. Quote from the article linked below (which is a good read in its own right):

"Renowned fretted instrument historian George Gruhn, the owner of Nashville's Gruhn Guitars instrument shop, was the co-executor of Shaw's estate. Gruhn described Shaw as a hoarder, who collected instruments, knives and other items. Shaw owned two plain houses in Nashville, which were chock-full of instruments worth significantly more than the homes themselves."

There you go.

Full article here:

10.5m-oasis-guitar-nerds-opens-belmont

Cheers - Tony

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: Tony Rees
Date: 03 Aug 19 - 06:24 PM

RE the Shaw bequest... I'm betting George Gruhn rubbed his hands every time he saw Shaw coming into his shop with an itch he had to scratch! Come in, come in!!

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: Tony Rees
Date: 03 Aug 19 - 06:18 PM

On the other hand...

steven-kern-shaw-estate-donates-105-million-vintage-instrument-collection-belmont

I guess if you can afford a $10.5 million instrument collection you can also afford a larger house...

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: GUEST,Ray
Date: 03 Aug 19 - 12:43 PM

Too much Orwell there Tony - or is that a river in Suffolk.

I’ve no idea who they belong to but Bamfords auctioneers in Derby are just about to auction a “sigle owner” musical instrument collection which includes around 228 guitars. Why whosoever collected them I can’t imagine as I wouldn’t give house room to the vast majority.

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: Tony Rees
Date: 03 Aug 19 - 11:37 AM

Plus I should add of course, some sound even more the same than others.

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: Tony Rees
Date: 03 Aug 19 - 11:35 AM

All guitars sound the same. And yet, all guitars sound different. Therein lies the mystery and, to some, the appeal and life long quest...

Of course all [concertinas|mandolins|electric guitars|harps|violins|pianos|you name it] *do* sound the same :)

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: GUEST,Ray
Date: 03 Aug 19 - 10:15 AM

Never mind a J200 and an OM28; a fair few audiences couldn't hear the difference between a J200 and an BMW, but, as gillymor implies, it's not only down to the audience, its the one who's playing the thing that matters. Anyway, if you can't spend your money on instruments, what else is there to do with it nowadays? You can't take it with you although I've known a few people who've tried.

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: gillymor
Date: 03 Aug 19 - 09:30 AM

Jerry- "Just because you can hear the difference between a J200 and say an OM28 doesn’t mean that your audience can,"

Back when I used to perform on a fairly regular basis I used a Lowden F model which was a good "tweener" guitar, worked well for strumming and fingerstyle, but in a more casual setting where I have multiple instruments I'll use a large body guitar if I'm singing and playing with a flat pick (I love feeling that thrum against my chest) and a 000 size for fingerpicking. While the audience may not be able to hear the difference in particular instruments, especially when they're filtered through sound systems, using a different instrument may still affect the performance, I know it does for me.

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 03 Aug 19 - 09:00 AM

“Duplication of a sound I can already produce...” Ouch! How many of us are brave enough to admit that our audience probably cannot hear any difference at all when we switch instruments to the one we think is essential for a particular song or tune? Just because you can hear the difference between a J200 and say an OM28 doesn’t mean that your audience can, who are more likely to notice a change of the player than the instrument. Just saying....

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: Tony Rees
Date: 03 Aug 19 - 03:57 AM

This is what can happen if you buy one of the 91 pre-war Martin D-45s ever made (worth as much as a small detached house) and then decide not to stop there (12 of the original 91 in one room...):

12 original D-45s

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: leeneia
Date: 02 Aug 19 - 09:47 PM

Joke heard at dance practice:

How many guitars does a guitarist need?
Just one more.

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: Tony Rees
Date: 02 Aug 19 - 08:09 PM

And if you think a guitar addiction is bad, how about a banjo one? This quote is lifted from a 2003 mudcat post in another thread from Charley Noble...

------------
HOSEA EASTON, of Melbourne, Australia, July 13th, 1886:

My banjos, eight in number, arrived here three weeks ago perfectly safe and sound, and I have thoroughly tested every one of them. I find to my satisfaction that there is nothing in the shape of banjos in Australia to approach them. You deserve the name, "King Banjo Maker," and as you stated in your letter, the two large banjos are the finest ever seen in the colonies...I have been playing one of the large ones with a full orchestra, and the banjo was heard above the orchestra outside the theatre doors.(!)
-------------

Cheers - Tony

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: Tony Rees
Date: 02 Aug 19 - 08:02 PM

gillymore wrote:

>I've come to think of my instruments as functional works of art and keep almost all of them out where I can see them and pick one up if I have a notion.

"Functional works of art" is a nice concept, works for me... my first guitar/guitars were purely functional (did a job); later I bought a second one, also functional (slightly different sound suited to other material; useful to have a spare when the first one was in the repair shop etc.); after that they have moved into more of the "aesthetic" area - beautiful objects that produce a beautiful and insiring sound and are a pleasure to play. (As I mentioned above, I try to limit myself to three - acoustics that is - although not always the same 3!). Practical limitations are storage space / other priorities for discretional spending / how much money do I really want to have tied up in instruments / when is another one just duplication of a "sound" I can already get :) :) Also as someone else said, we do not really own them, we just curate them for a while until they eventually pass to someone else.

That said, if I could only take one to a desert island, which would it be...

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: GUEST,alan whittle
Date: 31 Jul 19 - 02:21 PM

yes the line 6 variax acoustic> I've still got one - just use it for bass guitar parts.

People used to tell me it sounded okay, but it didn't record brilliantly, and it was never a fun guitar to play. The only amp it sounded good through, to me, was the Fender Acoustasonic.

The acoustasonic is my favourite amp of all time. I swapped an entire guitar collection fot the big 200watt job. It was too heavy to tote around and the resale on its about two hundred quid. But it sounds bloody gorgeous.

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 31 Jul 19 - 12:10 PM

I doubt it's really about sound, performance, etc. Sounds more like rationalizations to hide the fact y'all harbor a secret wish to collect more strings than anyone else in living memory. It's just an expensive way to do it. YMMV.

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: gillymor
Date: 31 Jul 19 - 12:05 PM

I've come to think of my instruments as functional works of art and keep almost all of them out where I can see them and pick one up if I have a notion. My efforts to "thin the herd" don't often work because after I clean and restring the instrument I'm usually reminded why I acquired it in the first place and decide to play it "just a while longer" until I'm sure I want to get rid of it. Btw, keeping your instruments out can cause your strings to get mungy as you guys know but I wipe them down after playing and every so often apply some Ducks Ax Wax which increases string life and lubricates the fingerboards.

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 31 Jul 19 - 11:49 AM

Actually, you can make a six string to sound like a twelve string, etc, with a modelling guitar, like the Line 6 Variax Acoustic. Mine emulates the sound of various Gibsons,, Martins, etc when played through an amp. However I think they ceased production due to lack of interest, from which I assume we all prefer to have several different instruments instead, but does that mean we value the hardware, looks and kudos of the instruments more than the actual sound we produce?

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: Mooh
Date: 31 Jul 19 - 10:29 AM

Guest Mark Bluemel...Point taken, but not everyone is Guillory or Thompson, and no one can make a six string sound like a 12 string, nylon string, resonator etc.

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: GUEST,alan whittle
Date: 31 Jul 19 - 04:24 AM

you'd be surprised how easily civilians get bored.

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: GUEST,Mark Bluemel
Date: 31 Jul 19 - 04:22 AM

Mooh said: "I've seen a lot of acts which would benefit from using a greater variety of guitars as the single guitar tends to sound monotonous after a few songs/tunes."

That's down to the artist not the instrument. No-one ever got bored with Isaac Guillory playing his Takemine (or later Martin) for a whole set, Richard Thompson does the whole "1000 years of popular music" on his Lowden, etc...

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: GUEST,alan whittle
Date: 31 Jul 19 - 04:08 AM

Gibsons being a good case in point. I've only had two.

the one I lusted afterwwas the Les paul Anniversary model. Round about 1980 - but I had to settle for a model called the Paul. People used to love the sound - played through a Peavey Deuce. But compared to a proper Les paul, it was ugly little bastard - swapped it for an Ibanez which offered a cleaner sound - and much more powerful.

After that they came out with the Gibson Chet Atkins - which was the first acoustic you didn't need something the size of a washing machine to finger pick and and beat the background chatter in a pub.
Unfortunately I got the first one that came out - a nylon string thing. Nylon strings ain't my thing. Cost £675 from a shop in St martins lane. As I was gigging   maybe four times a week - earning when i was lucky forty quid a throw, it meant sacrifice. It meant looking exhaustively for the best deal - through the back pages of Melody Maker in those pre-net days.

Later of course the Chet Atkins came to prominenece with the Knopfler solo in Private Investigations.

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: Tony Rees
Date: 31 Jul 19 - 03:51 AM

The above picture, and many more, at Robert Corwin's site:

http://www.oldgibson.com/

(Psst... he collects old Martins as well...)

Cheers - Tony

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: Tony Rees
Date: 31 Jul 19 - 03:44 AM

Of course if you are a Gibson man (or lady) then you obviously need more than one. Perhaps like this:

http://www.oldgibson.com/110825Gibsons_015.jpg

Not mine, I hasten to add...

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: Mooh
Date: 30 Jul 19 - 09:44 PM

[just happy to finally have a guitar thread on Mudcat]

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge
Date: 30 Jul 19 - 11:52 AM

I `ad that Terry Stiles in my cab the other day.`e`s the son of `arry Stiles,`im that used to run the best musical instrument shop in Lewisham. `Terry`s still in the bizz but moved on to artist management.
I said, " Morning Tell Boy. You still getting `em to run about all over the place gigging?"
`e said, "Yeah Jim, it pays the rent. `ere, I was looking at that Mudcat, the bit about geezers who can`t stop buying guitars. My dad told me about them on one of our `olidays to Florida!! Didn`t you used to suffer from that syndrome?".
I said,"Yeah, once upon a time. I `ad the lot. Martins, Gibsons, Greich, `ofners. You name `em, I `ad `em"
`e said, "What `appened to em all?"
I said, "Well. my mate suggested I sign `em all with well known artists name and offer them on E-Bay at upped prices. They went like `ot cakes. Nice little earner!!"


Whaddam I Like??

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: leeneia
Date: 30 Jul 19 - 11:06 AM

Hi, alan. Your viewpoint is noted.

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: GUEST,alan whittle
Date: 30 Jul 19 - 07:05 AM

'more fun to buy something than work with it......'

I've always hated buying guitars. Often when I was a working professional, the guitar I needed was an expensive necessity. Often you ended up buying a compromise.

The ones I buy these days are a fun thing, and I indulge my love for playing. But I still hate buying . I like owning the guitars and playing them. The actual business acquiring guitars is a pain.

I avoid guitar shops like the plague. Hate the deal making. Hate the assistants more often than not.

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: Mooh
Date: 30 Jul 19 - 06:22 AM

I've seen a lot of acts which would benefit from using a greater variety of guitars as the single guitar tends to sound monotonous after a few songs/tunes. Sure, for short sets at festivals with quick change-overs in mind it might not be practical to carry too many, but even two guitars can make a difference. I rarely carry just one as I don't feel comfortable without a back-up. The six string steel string is my default, but after that I'll bring a Dobro, 12 string, bouzouki, nylon, or whatever suits the gig.

My regular gig (per se) is instruction so I need at least one of everything I teach. This usually leads to me owning additional varieties, plus there are the things I think are cool or I might use for recording. I can't afford everything I want but I have most of what I need.

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: CupOfTea
Date: 29 Jul 19 - 07:58 PM

Comparing the guitar acquiring habits of different levels/ situations of guitarists (or insert other instrument choice ) seems like an apples/oranges kind of thing. I see numbers of guitarists, like Phil (actually, I Like him very much, but I digress...) who have years worth of experience, who have concentrated on a specific style, and because of that, have figured out what suits them and their style well, and set a maximum number they need, and do the one-in, one-out method . Others may play in a wider range of styles - rock, blues, polka, folk, classical, electric, acoustic - trying to make a living in music any way, and different styles of guitar may be best suited to thr music and playing style. Many guitars may be a professional need.

I've run into the problem of NOT having enough duplication, autoharps in my case. I have been playing a 21 chord 'harp for over 30 years, to accompany singing and dance. When my 21 chord took a bad fall against a mic stand, and had the tone completely ruined, I was, too. I dont have the money for a comparable as a backup - two keys are not enough, so I've had to stop a couple of things till it's healthy again.

So, if I were a guy, would I have had plenty of backup 'harps?
I do have two(totally decorative, unplayable )guitars though!

Joanne in Cleveland

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: Mooh
Date: 29 Jul 19 - 06:46 PM

Though I'm susceptible to various forms of the aforementioned affliction, I don't have the cash flow to support the lifestyle. That said, I do have a few more instruments than perhaps I need.

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: leeneia
Date: 29 Jul 19 - 01:37 PM

Thanks for the link, pfr. There's much to consider there.

As for owning many guitars: it's always more fun to buy something than to work with it. I, for example, have a lifetime supply of yarn and fabric which is so much more fun to buy than to use. When the "something" is not a skein of yarn but an expensive instrument which just sits around, that's a problem.

Then there's the obvious problem that the more guitars one has, the less time each can be played.
=========
The video you provided made me think of something. The video showed portraits of famous guitarists, performers. Each of them focused very much on the sound he was producing. Each was very interested in the audience's reaction. Me, I enjoy music in a different way. I'm an indifferent player, but I am interested in exploring music itself. Is it a pretty piece, a sad piece, a jaunty piece? Does it have interesting chord changes? Unusual timings?

To quote my dear father, "I don't make much money, but I have a lot of fun."

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 29 Jul 19 - 01:36 PM

I have a mere four Anglo concertinas, in three different pairs of keys, three of which I play, plus one duet which I hardly ever play (but keep because my parents bought it for me) and one English which I can't play but recently had comprehensively serviced and have now lent to someone who does play it. Unplayed are two autoharps (inherited from my grandfather), a melodeon or two and a pump organ. Three of the Anglos are top quality and should be easily sellable for about what they cost me, or more, if and when I need the cash.

But none of the collections described above come anywhere near the late lamented Tom Paley's collection of fiddles.

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Jul 19 - 11:33 AM

leeneia - though, for fairness and balance to opinions like yours,
which many of us do consider as valid when expresssed constructively,
here's a video very pertinent to this thread...

How many guitars do you "NEED"?

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 29 Jul 19 - 11:19 AM

leeneia: "Starship, I believe that guitar was custom-designed for a trained octopus." Funny, but when I made that post I thought something similar. I was wondering whether the octopus and player would be a duo or a quintet :-)

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Jul 19 - 10:37 AM

leeneia - Lesson 1: How to begin to dispel lazy supercilious entrenched prejudices
about popular music and it's practitioners...

Famous guitars sound comparison.

[..and this is just a very basic primer on the diversity of tonal differences, some minimal, some drastic...]

Lesson 2,3,4,5, etc, and onwards:The next steps in becoming better informed and educated
on the path towards musical tolerance and enlightenment [or not]
are up to the individual traveller...


Besides which, it's nice to have exactly the same guitar with exactly the same sound,
but in diferent colours to match varying moods and shirts...

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: GUEST,alan whittle
Date: 28 Jul 19 - 10:53 PM

its a sensual thing. Different guitars have their own inherent pleasures.

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: leeneia
Date: 28 Jul 19 - 08:28 PM

Valid points, pfr. But just because your observations about audiences are true doesn't mean they make sense. For example, given the poor-quality music the average person tolerates in pop, I doubt if the listeners can tell the guitars apart. Sure, one extreme is noticeably different from another extreme, but I suspect that with most of the guitars, the risks in hauling them about are not justified.

That is so sad about the gear burnt in storage.

Starship, I believe that guitar was custom-designed for a trained octopus.

Subject: RE: Help Needed - guitarist keeps buying more guitars
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 27 Jul 19 - 02:26 PM

Yes, not that clever. You could always rent a secure shop and store them there, but never sell any of them, which is quite likely given the rise in Internet sales.