BS: What Survival foods?

Subject: RE: BS: What Survival foods?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 07:13 AM

Given the difficulty of stockpiling enough food for a really extended time of scarcity, the obvious plan must be set out in advance, and the critical need is to have the tools and organization within a core group of survivors.

Step 1: Commandeer and fortify the nearest grain elevator. Although no single grain provides a balanced diet, the surplus will be useful for barter with those who have other supplies.

Step 2: Recruit or kidnap the editorial staff at MEN. Based on experience with publishing, the editors probably know nothing very useful except the names and locations of the writers who actually may have useful skills and knowledge. Recruiting the best of these skilled people will be critical. The editors may be willing to assist in recruitment, and their contacts should be used and cooperation should be rewarded. The younger editors can be bartered as slaves once you've obtained what you need from them (if you decide not to keep them).

Step 3: Know the location, and if possible the identity of the operator(s), of the nearest illicit still. The ability to produce a continuous and reliable supply (for barter as well as for self-medication) may be extremely important to your survival.

Step 4: Recruit (or capture¹ if necessary) a Native shaman experienced in sweat lodge rituals. These have medicinal value, but inexperienced people can easily kill themselves attempting to apply them.

¹ Use extreme caution in the use of force. These guys/gals can get pretty testy.

Step 5: Recruit or commandeer the most primitive blacksmith/foundry facility and personnel accessible to your area. You're going to wear out your original set of tools in short order, and will need repairs and/or replacements. Be sure to have a ready supply of welding equipment and gases (arc welders will be difficult to use without power). You'll soon run out of gas, but should be able to convert to more primitive forge operations, using local fuels, quickly enough to work through it.

Step 6: Recruit as many older experienced women with knowledge of weaving, pottery, sewing, and gardening as possible. This may, unfortunately, require good manners, pleasant behaviour, and a few gifts and favors, but there's little hope of applying coercion usefully. Recruitment may be a long process so start as soon as possible.

Step 7: Recruit at least a few wise old men. Engineers of course should be favored for their special knowledge; but avoid those with PhDs (you can't live on equations) or with "management" credentials (you can starve in endless meetings). The useful ones can probably be recruited quite willingly through minor attention from a few agreeable younger² ladies. This step is so important the recruiting should be started immediately.

² [Hint] They're all younger than me.

Step 8: Obtain and study one or more respected Animal Husbandry and/or Veterinary texts published before 1890. Old medical books, even of this era, rely strongly on purchased "back east" medicines, but the vet books are rich in home remedies that actually (according to some reports) worked once in a while.

Step 9: Make some serious plans and get organized.

This should be enough for a start.

John

Subject: RE: BS: What Survival foods?
From: GUEST,CrazyEddie
Date: 11 Jun 07 - 05:06 AM

Gimlet, can I have some rat (and Ketchup) with that Dwarf Bread, please?

Subject: RE: BS: What Survival foods?
From: GUEST,Gimlet the Delicatessan
Date: 09 Jun 07 - 09:40 AM

Dwarf Bread

Subject: RE: BS: What Survival foods?
From: bobad
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 09:44 PM

Pan-Roasted Grasshoppers

Subject: RE: BS: What Survival foods?
From: GUEST,Eater
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 09:19 PM

I was doing some work in a remote area today and saw thousands of pounds of grasshoppers. They were everywhere. It's been a wet year, so the grasshoppers are thick. Free protein, I guess, but I mean...grasshoppers. Anyone have any experience or recipes for these delicacies?

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: robomatic
Date: 29 Apr 07 - 03:49 PM

I dream of a world without weapons, a world at peace.


And I dream of taking over that world, because they wouldn't be prepared!

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: bobad
Date: 29 Apr 07 - 12:01 AM

Properties of Freeze-dried Products

If a freeze-dried substance is sealed to prevent the reabsorption of moisture, the substance may be stored at room temperature without refrigeration, and be protected against spoilage for many years. Preservation is possible because the greatly reduced water content that inhibits the action of microorganisms and enzymes that would normally spoil or degrade the substance.

Freeze drying also causes less damage to the substance than other dehydration methods using higher temperatures. Freeze drying does not usually cause shrinkage or toughening of the material being dried. In addition, flavours and smells generally remain unchanged making the process popular for preserving food. Unfortunately, water is not the only chemical capable of sublimation and the loss of other volatile compounds such as acetic acid (vinegar) and alcohols can yield undesirable results.

Freeze-dried products can be rehydrated (reconstituted) much more quickly and easily because it leaves microscopic pores. The pores are created by the ice crystals that sublimate, leaving gaps or pores in its place. This is especially important when it comes to pharmaceutical uses. Lyophilization can also be used to increase the shelf life of some pharmaceuticals for many years.

From Wikipedia

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: GUEST,granny
Date: 28 Apr 07 - 11:53 PM

guest eater freeze dried stays in freezer, dehydrated is left out to dry and will keep along time. Can food lasts for years if stored right. water will also keep for along time. But you can boil if necessary.People had better start stocking up because times are going to get hard.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: GUEST,pattyClink
Date: 26 Apr 07 - 12:17 PM

Eater, good luck with the wheat experiments, sounds rough to me. The whole thing sounds a little paranoid, but you gotta do what you gotta do.

I would look into corn as well. Here in the south a lot of people still rely on home subsistence gardens which feature: corn to be ground for wholegrain cornbread, blackeyed peas, butterbeans, various greens, and the summer vegetables (tomatoes, okra, peppers, etc.)   The corn/bean combination gives a fairly complete protein set you can survive on.   And of course, this corn/bean combo was the root of the Native American diet, with squash as another foundation. For good reasons-- these things are fairly reliable to grow and simple to process.   

You can eat some of the corn fresh, let the rest dry in the field and then haul it to a mill to be ground (there are only a handful of millers left, but I think they will still mill for no cash, just leave part of your corn). Or, mill it yourself in a small grinder as you need it.

As for the cornbread, you might have to lay in some dried eggs or egg whites, otherwise all you need is salt, baking powder, and water. It's better with milk, but not necessary.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: grumpy al
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 02:25 PM

Wesley,
you didn't like pemmican? you must have very strange tastebuds, or could that be me? I wonder.
Grumpy

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Sooz
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 11:44 AM

Chip butties - 100 of them!

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: GUEST,blindlemonsteve
Date: 25 Apr 07 - 07:55 AM

See the bovril thread, ive had a jar of it for years, it still tastes good, and the jar is bullet proof.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Alice
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 06:46 PM

This reminds me of the end of the world predictions of Elizabeth Clare Prophet. Her followers built fallout shelters, armed themselves, bought "survival" food from her and prepared for doomsday. One woman even shot her dog because she was not allowed to take a pet into the "shelter".
After the world did not end, and people who had maxed out their credit cards and sold everything found that the world went on, some of her followers left the cult. One ex-member told me she still had lots of wheat left and was trying to sell her survival food. She found that the wheat had grit and small rocks in it, so it wasn't even good as feed for animals.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: GUEST,Partridge
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 03:37 PM

Chick peas are nice and last a long time

Pat x

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Wesley S
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 03:09 PM

Al - Maybe pemmican lasts for years because no one wants to eat it. The few times I've tasted it the stuff was awful. Maybe I'm wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: grumpy al
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 02:55 PM

try making pemmican, it tastes good and keeps for years,safely, recipes available on the internet.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: GUEST,GI Joe
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 01:55 PM

some ware I read put aside a case of 1/2 pints of whiskey. if things get rough people will trade any thing for a bottle of whiskey,gin/rum/ whatever.. of course you could always drink it yourself...

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: GUEST,Eater
Date: 23 Apr 07 - 09:26 PM

I've looked into wheat. Feed wheat (not pesticide-treated seed wheat), but feed wheat at a feed store. Bought 50 pounds for $8.25. Now I'll test it.

Found the link below concerning basic recipes. How to boil it, fry it, sprout it, etc.:

http://waltonfeed.com/self/wheat.html

This wheat can be sealed in large buckets and stored. One article recommended using diatameceous earth and bay leaves before sealing. Natural insecticides. The DE also acts as an absorbent.
http://www.zetatalk.com/food/tfoox041.htm

So, my plan is to start cooking this stuff and incorporating it into our eating (one article says it's a big adjustment for the digestive system, so start using it gradually), and if it's a good food source, I'll research how long it can be stored, etc. and buy the buckets and store as much as will keep.

The SEED wheat is only available once a year around here, but FEED wheat is available year round. SEED is treated with pesticides. Feed wheat can be planted, too. One man at a feed store said about 70-80% of it would sprout.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: autolycus
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 08:42 AM

Thanks bobad.

must remember to put my vegetararian joke on the joke thread.




I.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: GUEST,ib48
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 07:43 AM

cant beat a 12oz sirloin steak and chips,you will definately survive a day on that

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: bobad
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 07:15 AM

"BTW,Peanut butter not good;p.b.full of bad cholesteral."

Choose peanut butter that is made only with peanuts and no additives.

The fatty acid composition of 11 brands of peanut butter and paste freshly prepared from roasted peanuts was analyzed with emphasis on isomeric trans-fatty acids. No trans-fatty acids were detected in any of the samples in an analytical system with a detection threshold of 0.01% of the sample weight. Hydrogenated vegetable oils are added to peanut butters at levels of 1-2% to prevent oil separation. Some hydrogenated vegetable oils are known to be sources of trans-fatty acids in the human diet. The addition of these products was not found to result in measurable amounts of trans-fatty acids in the peanut butters analyzed.

J. Agric. Food Chem., 49 (5), 2349 -2351, 2001. 10.1021/jf001455a S0021-8561(00)01455-2

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: autolycus
Date: 31 Mar 07 - 06:48 AM

No takers,then,for examining why a social order might collapse might occur and exploring ways to alternatives futures?



    BTW,Peanut butter not good;p.b.full of bad cholesteral.




      I.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 08:37 PM

"you can leave a trail for the search team. "

Hansel and Gretel found that didn't work - the birds ate it!

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 08:32 PM

"you can leave a trail for the search team. "

Hansel and Gretel found that didn't work - the birds ate it!

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 07:40 PM

About 1,000 lbs of canned soup will last a family of four for about 3 months.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: GUEST,Eater
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 07:32 PM

I have read this with interest and I have found some information on other sites.

One place suggested getting Bic lighters, needle and thread and the things we take for granted. Store them and they will be there when needed.

Seed wheat is toxic but feed wheat is edible. I'm going to pick up some and we'll experiment.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Bee
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 04:53 PM

"Within days folks were trying to trade fully loaded cars for iron pots." - Wesley

Wouldn't it make more sense to beat part of the car into a pot-shape? ;-D

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: gnu
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 04:44 PM

Oh my! I should have opened this thread when I first saw it. Sounds interesting and I SHALL read it when I get a chance. I thought it would be about foods you could eat in the wilds to survive if you got lost... I have never been lost... only momentarily displaced.

Now, if we were talking wild woods survival food, apart from the usual nuts and berries and such, bring corn in your survival pack. It is clearly the best. It does give you sugar energy and you can leave a trail for the search team.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Wesley S
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 04:35 PM

My favorite book on the subject was Alas Babylon by Pat Frank. Post nuclear war survival in central Florida. Within days folks were trying to trade fully loaded cars for iron pots. Coffee, sugar,salt, honey and booze turned into important trade goods.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Mickey191
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 03:42 PM

Bee, Of course you are correct-but let's face it-which makes for better drama-a tooth abcess or windmill trading for 6 captive hunks?

Peace, I've order the book & it's in transit. I sure hope it gets here in time.

Toothpaste! Forgot that totally. Prunes too-good for the heart. But what do we do for the heartbreak?

I just heard that in some town in Ca. the price of reg. gas is over $4.00 a gallon. Immediate thought:
they're getting us ready to accept invasion of Iran. We simply must GET THEIR OIL! We may be invading our larder sooner then we thought.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: M.Ted
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 03:36 PM

If you want to learn how to survive after a cataclysm, forget about the fictional narratives--there are plenty of Iraqis on-line, sharing their day to day details--lots of Tsunami survivors around too, and Katrina survivors--just ask Poppagator--

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Bee
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 03:21 PM

Peace, I read Lucifer's Hammer a long time ago, so fuzzy on the details.

The thing about that interesting sci-fi novel and the show Jericho is that they are, after all, fiction. People are always managing to find or have delivered the exact thing they need to suvive - Jericho is bad for that. In real life you would start running into such simple horrors as tooth abcesses, infected cuts, earaches, parasites in water supplies, insects in your food stores, shortages of fuel to cook or boil water (trust me, around here you couldn't rely on a solar cooker). You'd also have worry about the diseases your youngest children aren't vaccinated for - an untreated fever can seriously damage or kill a child. And the list goes on...

My recommendation would be to store lots of books that can help you make or deal with anything you might need or come across. We've forgotten a lot of the simple remedies our grandparents took for granted - like the fact hot salted water can ease a lot of infections, including in the mouth.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Peace
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 12:41 PM

Read "Lucifer's Hammer". It's a neat story, but there are also really good ideas for after cattaclsmick/cataklismec/cataclismick/bad-shit-happens.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Mickey191
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 12:37 PM

In my ignorance I thought that the unopened gallons of purchased water would last indefintely. So I should replace the contents (every 6 mo.s) with my well water? Yea or Nay?

For the first time, that I've seen, our weather channel had a segment on this very subject yesterday. Clorax was a must, toilet tissue & germicidal soap, one gal. of water for each person for each expected day of doom. Sounds like one must devote a _room_ for all the larder.

I've become hooked on "Jericho" - continuing CBS series on the aftermath of nuclear war. It is well done & thought provoking, depicting the change in humanity when things get rough.

My Question: Does somebody KNOW something?

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: M.Ted
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 09:31 AM

What Bee says is true--people tend to band together--and the people who survive are the ones who are good at getting along with others--whatever the conditions.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: GUEST,Minerva
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 09:24 AM

Couple years ago I read a book about a serial killer who went on the lam and lived rough in the outdoors with no car for a number of months. The day before he suspected he was going to be arrested he went shopping, and I found his shopping list intriguing: 20 lbs. oatmeal, 10 lb. raisins, 10 lb. mixed nuts, couple cans peanut butter. This was in the southeastern US where surface water is plentiful.

He would occasionally burglarize a house for additional groceries.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Bee
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 08:11 AM

No doubt in the extreme social conditions proposed by some there would be marauders to contend with, but I think for the most part people would tend to band together - we are social animals, for the most part, and survive better as cooperating and trading groups than as wandering singletons, who, however fearsome their personal armory, must sleep sometime.

It certainly doesn't hurt to know your wild foods (and their nutritional value) - there is no time of year I couldn't find vegetation to eat in the woods and fields, couldn't find some creature to fish for, or small animals to snare or trap, or even fat grubs. Consider that bears survive on mostly berries and insects, with the occasional meat meal (although they do hibernate during the time of scarcest food).

A fine wild food example is the cattail: the root is starchy and edible, the young shoots are edible; when green, the seedhead is edible (boiled, tastes a bit like corn); when covered in pollen the pollen can be gathered and added to flour mixes. And when it has gone to fluff, it can be used as insulating material in quilts or clothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: bobad
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 06:49 AM

J in K

I found this in Wikipedia for what it's worth:

"Euell died due to Marphans(sic) Syndrome, with the result of an elongated aorta that burst."

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Megan L
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 05:58 AM

Ah Peace see I kent there wis something respectable about you:p
We used tae hae big rhubarb fields ower the back o oor hoose and a high treat wis some young stalks and a pokie hat o sugar.

You know instead of wondering how we can brow beat bully control and kill those around us after Armageddon perhaps if we actually started treating people the way we would like them to treat us we might not have to reach that stage. But then again I was brought up to see good in folk and try tae help them see it too.

Ah weel I'll jist stay here in ma wee cave wie ma hamster powered telly.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 05:17 AM

Ah Peace - oxalic acid - now I understand.... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Peace
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 12:50 AM

He died of heart attack in 1975 so far as I can find out.

"Fun Ways to Eat and Cook Rhubarb

You can eat our bright red stalks but not our green leaves which contain an acid that should not be eaten. Simply cut off our leaves and any white root area, then cut stalk crosswise into 25-50mm lengths. There is no need to peel."

I like to eat the stalks raw but dipped in sugar bite by bite.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 12:40 AM

bobad

Stalking The Wild Asparagus (Paperback)
by Euell Gibbons (Author)

But didn't Euell Gibbons die a few years back - of food poisoning?

(possibly an urban rumor, but that report went around pretty widely at the time.)

A warning not widely known, from US Military handbooks:

Eating wild things like nuts and berries on the assumption that "birds eat them so they must be okay" can be fatal. Most birds can metabolize strychnine, which is a common "ingredient" in a number of plants and plant products. You cannot.


Even some common human food products can cause problems if ingested without customary processing, of which you might not be aware if you haven't studdied the usual methods of preparation. Rhubarb comes to mind (if local lore is believed) and the common tropical taro - used both for food and in more primitive times for a hunting poison - might be worth looking up. Although you're unlikely to find taro in your back lot, knowing the kinds of hazards it typifies might be helpful.

Euell Gibbons, in particular, often "glossed over" some things that caused concern for more conventional dietitians.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Peace
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 07:39 PM

"Well cooked human meat is just fine to eat."

I don't want to know why you are so sure of this. Uh, you read lots of stuff by Thomas Harris?

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: bobad
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 07:30 PM

I recall hearing a long time ago that cannibals consider the palms of the hand and soles of the feet as being choice so if you ever find yourself at the Cannibal Cafe you know what to order.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 07:24 PM

Peace:

Well cooked human meat is just fine to eat. You may not like the idea but it has happened before and it will happen again. In a world where you can't find food YOU will eat your neighbors.

And M.Ted:

My neighbors placing my head on a pike, don't count on it...I'm stronger then they are.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: bobad
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 07:23 PM

A good source book on foraging Stalking The Wild Asparagus

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Peace
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 06:06 PM

Rabbits are good. However, they are subject to

There are two common ways that humans can contract tularemia:

From the bite of an infected tick, deerfly (Chrysops discalis), or mosquito. When transmitted to humans by insects, exposed body surfaces are bitten, and the on set of pain and fever is sudden.
When broken skin (cuts, abrasions) comes into direct contact with an infected rabbit carcass (namely rabbit species of the genus Sylvilagus which are the cottontails). Many other wild creatures carry it, too.

One more thing: Rabbit flesh is very very very low in fat. That should be added when the rabbit is cooked.

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Penny S.
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 05:59 PM

Peace, the cats can be encouraged to bring in rabbits and such instead of the usual voles. My Nana's cat did that for her.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Penny S.
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 05:56 PM

PS -- I sympathize with you, bubblyrat. I can't imagine living in a society that doesn't allow you to protect your loved ones. Good luck.

I've lived in this oppressed society, alone, for forty odd years, after living with my family before that, and guess what, I've never met anything I needed to be protected from with guns.

A friend having a spat with some teenagers who didn't know how to cope with a surge of testosterone. Only weapon involved a metal tipped cricket stump. Which I was able to remove, as it wasn't actually being held as a weapon.

Verbal bullying from a poorly socialised neighbour.

A brother in law having a dog set on him, and a bite around his waist.

I don't think guns would have made things better, and could well have made things much worse.

There's nothing to be sorry about for people living in a society with very few guns. Except for those where they aren't as few as they should be.

Getting back to the food. I don't think pulses are so good, even if you have your own water supply, and a supply of fuel, because they have a finite shelf life, after which they become very difficult to reconstitute. My own emergency supplies tend to the tinned or sachets with liquid in, and are only intended to last through the flu. I had a fleeting moment of paranoia at the time of Bernard Matthew's outbreak, and built up a bit so it wasn't just for me being off work sick, but the supermarket delivery system being off sick as well.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Survival foods - suggestions?
From: Peace
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 04:57 PM

Keep lots of cats around. They will mostly fend for themselves and serve as a walking larder if times get tough.