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Beginner Guitar Tips?

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SharonA 01 Aug 06 - 09:58 PM
The Fooles Troupe 01 Aug 06 - 09:44 PM
The Fooles Troupe 01 Aug 06 - 09:42 PM
SharonA 01 Aug 06 - 09:40 PM
The Fooles Troupe 01 Aug 06 - 09:39 PM
SharonA 01 Aug 06 - 09:24 PM
The Fooles Troupe 01 Aug 06 - 09:19 PM
The Fooles Troupe 01 Aug 06 - 09:08 PM
Johnhenry'shammer 01 Aug 06 - 07:54 PM
SharonA 01 Aug 06 - 07:48 PM
Scoville 01 Aug 06 - 02:32 PM
Big Al Whittle 01 Aug 06 - 01:45 PM
Don Firth 01 Aug 06 - 01:07 PM
Bobert 01 Aug 06 - 12:42 PM
Peter T. 01 Aug 06 - 11:11 AM
Doug Chadwick 01 Aug 06 - 02:23 AM
Tim theTwangler 01 Aug 06 - 01:07 AM
The Fooles Troupe 31 Jul 06 - 08:45 PM
Scoville 31 Jul 06 - 03:14 PM
PoppaGator 31 Jul 06 - 03:12 PM
PoppaGator 31 Jul 06 - 03:06 PM
PoppaGator 31 Jul 06 - 03:02 PM
Johnhenry'shammer 31 Jul 06 - 02:34 PM
Grab 31 Jul 06 - 11:52 AM
Scrump 31 Jul 06 - 08:23 AM
The Fooles Troupe 31 Jul 06 - 02:12 AM
Don Firth 31 Jul 06 - 02:02 AM
Johnhenry'shammer 31 Jul 06 - 12:08 AM
Don Firth 30 Jul 06 - 10:13 PM
282RA 30 Jul 06 - 08:44 PM
The Fooles Troupe 30 Jul 06 - 08:07 PM
Scoville 30 Jul 06 - 05:00 PM
Johnhenry'shammer 30 Jul 06 - 04:39 PM
Murray MacLeod 30 Jul 06 - 04:37 PM
Don Firth 30 Jul 06 - 02:12 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 30 Jul 06 - 12:46 PM
GUEST,Frank Hamilton 30 Jul 06 - 11:30 AM
GUEST,Russ 30 Jul 06 - 11:06 AM
Fortunato 30 Jul 06 - 10:59 AM
Banjo-Flower 30 Jul 06 - 08:57 AM
van lingle 30 Jul 06 - 07:04 AM
Tim theTwangler 30 Jul 06 - 05:52 AM
Rusty Dobro 30 Jul 06 - 05:25 AM
Johnhenry'shammer 30 Jul 06 - 03:54 AM
The Fooles Troupe 30 Jul 06 - 03:23 AM
Peace 29 Jul 06 - 11:05 PM
Scoville 29 Jul 06 - 10:59 PM
Don Firth 29 Jul 06 - 10:45 PM
Don Firth 29 Jul 06 - 10:36 PM
Johnhenry'shammer 29 Jul 06 - 09:23 PM
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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: SharonA
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 09:58 PM

Foolestroupe again: Hmmm... reading your last post, maybe we're not on the same page after all. I'm not proposing that we tell "lies" to children. I don't think that anything I said here is a "lie". I just wanted to give the most rudimentary explanation of I,IV,V that I could think of, without throwing around a lot of terminology that might only add to a beginner's confusion.

I wholeheartedly agree with you that, ideally, a beginner should come to an understanding of "the real basic theory" ASAP. But what did I say that was not "real"? You and I simply explained the same concept in different ways. I don't think it's necessary for a beginning guitarist to learn all the proper terminology of basic music theory before learning to play chord patterns. I think it's perfectly all right to learn both as one goes along. Besides, most if not all beginners already have some knowledge of music, as well as preconceptions and misconceptions about it, simply from having listened to it. There's always something that has to be unlearned!

Then there are those innovative players who, having formed their own ideas about music before picking up an instrument, develop their own styles of playing and writing that defy the rules. "Learning things correctly" may be proper but it may not be "right" for everyone...


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 09:44 PM

"I did not count the starting place "

That's the old Maths 'Fence posts and panels' hassle...


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 09:42 PM

We're posting out of phase...


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: SharonA
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 09:40 PM

Sorry; I failed to end my italics in the first paragraph of my previous post.

Anyway, I think I covered the matter of counting up to the fourth and fifth notes in a scale when I talked about the white keys of a piano (i.e. the C scale). I was counting the "I" as the first note of the scale, just as you did.

However, when I talked about simply counting frets up the guitar fingerboard, I did not count the starting place as one of the frets. In other words, in my example of counting up from C to F, the C (let's say the one at the 3rd fret on the 5th string) was counted as "number zero". In this example of the 5th string, the C is on the 3rd fret and the F is on the 8th fret. 8 - 3 = 5 .... which matches the count you made in your post of 9:19 PM.

So I think we're on the same page.


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 09:39 PM

Ok SharonA

I go along with the 'lies to children' educational approach too, but sometimes just getting beginners to an understanding of the real basic theory is easier in the long run... you don't have to get them relearn things... and some never will want to relearn things correctly...

The learning of some basic musical theory is inevitable if you really want to progress as a muso, just ask any long term player here, you will find many such reinforcing quotes from them in the past threads.


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: SharonA
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 09:24 PM

Foolestroupe: Yes, but you're talking about whole notes in a scale. I was talking about counting frets up the fingerboard.

You quoted me out of context! Note the sentence before the one you quoted: "So how do you know what the "IV" guitar chord will be for any particular "I" guitar chord if you don't know pianos or music theory?"

I was trying to answer that question, which I imagine might be posed by the beginner guitarist, without referring to scales and whole notes and half-notes and the chromatic scale and dominant chords and so forth ad nauseum.


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 09:19 PM

Forgot to say

"which may throw out the fret count... " depending where in the sequence of the 12 chromatic notes you start.... and trying to remember the correct number of semitones (frets) for the correct number of steps in the scale is confusing for musical beginners, and varies with Major & Minor.

F G A B C is 5 notes from I to V in the scale of F Major - 7 semitones (frets)

C D E F G is 5 notes from I to V in the scale of C Major - 7 semitones (frets)

C D E F is 4 notes from I to V in the scale of C Major - 5 semitones (frets)


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 09:08 PM

" Start with the "root" note of the "I" chord (the note for which the chord is named -- for example, the root of a C chord is the note C) and, on your guitar, count up 5 frets (for example, to the note F)."

Sorry, that's not quite right... but I'm a keyboard player, not a guitarist...

Try "count up 4 notes in the scale" eg C, D, E, F...

You see, there are sharps and flats in the middle there, which will throw out the fret count... at my count, it's nearer 6 frets....


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: Johnhenry'shammer
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 07:54 PM

Alright Don, I'll go to work on that right away!


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: SharonA
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 07:48 PM

And what, Mr. Hammer may ask, is all this Roman-numeral mumbo-jumbo that Scoville and Peter T are talking about? It's music-theory shorthand. They're talking about how the chords in a song relate to one another.

Without getting too technical about it at this early stage in your song-learning, the "I" (One) is the key the song is in. The best example would be the key of C. Now, find a piano keyboard or a picture of one on the internet and, considering the white key that is the note "C" as your first piano key, count up to the fourth WHITE piano key. This will be the note "F". Counting up from C (the first white piano key) to the fifth white key will give you the note "G". Okay, now, getting back to your guitar and our Roman numerals, if the "I" (One) chord is a C chord, then the "IV" (Four) chord is an F chord, and the "V" chord is a G chord. Learning to play this I,IV, V pattern will allow you to play many, many, many songs!

The reason they call it a I, IV, V pattern is that it's a pattern no matter what key you're playing in. In the key of D it'll be D,G,A. In the key of E it'll be E, A, B. In the key of F it'll be F, B flat, C... and so on. So how do you know what the "IV" guitar chord will be for any particular "I" guitar chord if you don't know pianos or music theory? Start with the "root" note of the "I" chord (the note for which the chord is named -- for example, the root of a C chord is the note C) and, on your guitar, count up 5 frets (for example, to the note F). That's the root of your "IV" chord.

Hey, wow, whaddaya know... if you look at your piano keyboard and count upwards using all the white AND black piano keys, it's the same number of notes.

For a "V" chord you'll count upwards 7 frets. Et cetera.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

I second Scrump's advice to watch what other players do. Attend sessions, find jams where you will be welcome to join in as a beginner, go to folk guitarits' performances, and in all cases watch the hands of the players. Watch how their picking hands pick. Watch how their chording hands form the chords (some chords have several fingering options from which to choose) and watch them change from one chord to another. Listen to the chord progressions as they change, in order to learn more chord patterns. Be a sponge and soak it all in. Teach your ear to hear the chords and the chord changes, as well as teaching your eyes to see them. This will help you immensely when following along in jams. Following along in jams will, in turn, help you learn to play what you're watching others play.

When you practice, try to discipline yourself to keep going through a song or a picking sequence, instead of stopping-and-starting-over, even if you make mistakes along the way. Just keep repeating the whole song or sequence, and the number of mistakes within it will lessen over time. The formation of those brain pathways that Foolestroupe was talking about is dependent on this kind of practicing!


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: Scoville
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 02:32 PM

Second learnng the I,IV,V7 chord patterns--this will save you a lot of trouble. I somehow took five years of piano lessons and yet failed to translate all my theory nonsense into "guitar speak" until I took a beginner guitar workshop somewhere, years later. Suddenly, life got a whole lot easier.

Additionally, I think the minors are usually the VI and sometimes II (i.e. F# minor and secondarily B minor in the key of A, A minor and secondarily D minor in the key of C, etc.)


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 01:45 PM

the trouble is that its a fair old while since some of us were beginners.

I'd give this advice though

1) use a felt pick when you start doesn't sound good but it is forgiving and sounds better than mistakes. it makes a woolier sound.

2) there lots of two chord songs. singing in the rain. how much is that doggy in the window, jambalaya, the wheels on the bus, whole world in his hand. Give a performance - either a kindergaten or an old peoples home - somewhere where they probably won't throw things. Anyway don't wait til you're Eric Clapton before you start performing - otherwise you won't learn anything up to performance standard - which should be aimed so high that its not pissing too many people off. Nothing worse than someone who can half play everything John renbourn and bert jansch ever put on record.

3) the guitar is only the accompaniment - sing out loud and expressively also. If possible in the correct key - but thats some way down the road - not really to be hoped for from a beginner.

4) songs are like little stories - sometimes they are happy - other times not so happy - let this be reflected in your singing.

5) buy an electronic tuner, lemon oil for the frets, guitar polish for the wodden bits, change your strings at least every 3 months.

6) practise silently when everybody is watching TV. If there is a tv programme that is on for an hour. Hold an unfamiliar chord down - till the first lot of adverts come on. then when the second half comes on, the second chord. In the third section, try moving from chord one to chord two. the more you practise the easier it gets.

7) sometimes you will think - this is horrible. I sound terrible and I'm not getting anywhere. Strangely enough this is often the day or two days before you make a breakthrough - keep plodding on as long as you can, before taking a break. But when you can't stand another minute - then its okay, you did your best.

8) if your hands are cold they don't work so well.

hope some of this is useful.


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 01:07 PM

Excellent point about the left-hand pinky, Bobert!

And speaking of pinkies, lots of folkies do it, but do not rest your right-hand pinky on the soundboard of the guitar. There are very good reasons why one should not, not the least of which is that the right hand should be free, not anchored to the top of the guitar. All the support the hand needs is your forearm resting on the upper edge of the guitar. Among other things, anchoring the pinky makes it much more difficult to use the ring finger, and for what I describe in the following paragraphs, we do want to be able to use it.

So far, we've managed to link to a lot of websites that show some pretty flashy git-pickin', but someplace along the line we seem to have neglected a few basics—basics that can a) get one going right away, and b) lead fairly directly to the more impressive stuff.

Basic accompaniment, plucking the strings with the fingers rather than strumming (techniques that can be morphed easily into alternating bass finger-picking):

Pick a chord, any chord. Say, a C. Rest the right forearm on the edge of the guitar with the right hand hovering over the strings just above the sound hole, or a bit toward the bridge side of the sound hole. [To get a clear idea of the optimum right hand position, take another look at the videos I linked to above, Happy Traum and Sharon Isbin).] Keep the wrist fairly straight. Make a fist. Point your thumb to the left, toward the fingerboard. Now, relax and open the fingers, but still keep them curved. Rest the thumb (p for "pulgar") on the 5th string, and deploy the fingers so that the index finger (i) is on the 3rd string, the middle finger (m) is on the 2nd string, and the ring or annular finger (a) is on the 1st string. [Remember the designations I'm using for right-hand thumb and fingers, p, i, m, and a, because I will use them later as a sort of shorthand for talking about arpeggios and alternating bass patterns, and it will save me a lot of typing.]

Play the 5th string with the thumb (p). Now, moving all three fingers (i, m, and a) as a unit, play the top three strings together. Do it again. And again. Do it a whole bunch of times, until you get the feel of it and can do it smoothly and in tempo ("One-two, one two," etc.).

Now, do it again, but this time, play the 5th string followed by the fingers, but then, play the 4th string followed by the fingers. Keep playing going, alternate that the bass string. 5th, (fingers), 4th (fingers), 5th, (fingers), 4th (fingers) . . . .

That's a basic 2-beat or 4-beat pattern, depending on how you want to count it:   "one-two, one-two" or "one-two-three-four." Good for any song in 2/4 or 4/4 time.

Now try this:   do the exact same thing, only do the fingers twice each time, like this: Thumb plays 5th (fingers fingers), 4th (fingers fingers), and so on.

"One-two-three, one-two-three." That's a basic 3-beat pattern, commonly known as "waltz time."

Next step. As you play a two-beat or a three beat right pattern on a C chord, change to another chord, say a G7. Play the 6th string with the thumb (followed by the fingers of course) then the 4th string with the thumb (then fingers), then the 5th string with the thumb—and so on. Alternating the bass string that your thumb plays. Okay?

Try playing various chords you know this way, alternating whatever bass strings are available within that chord. Keep the right hand pattern going in an even tempo and change chords every few beats.

Burl Ives (with the possible exception of Pete Seeger and The Weavers), the first folk singer that most of my geezer generation ever heard of, made a substantial career for himself, radio, concert tours, clubs, records, and a couple of movies where he played a character very much like himself, by doing little else on the guitar than what I've just described above. That's why simple accompaniment patterns like that are often referred to as "Burl Ives basic." Depending on the song, sometimes that's all you want to do. Sure, it isn't fancy, but when I was teaching folk guitar classes (ten week courses) back in the Sixties, I sent people home at the end of the first evening able to accompany two or three songs with "Burl Ives basic." At the end of ten weeks, they knew all the first position chords and a whole handful of right-hand accompaniment patterns, including a couple of alternating bass patterns.

You'll note that even with Burl Ives basic, you are alternating the bass notes. To move from that into picking out melody lines with the fingers is not that big a step. While bouncing back and forth between bass strings, there are all kinds of wild and crazy things you can do with your fingers.

More later.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 12:42 PM

Split yer practice time between struming and finger-pickin' and when you do yer strumin' try to get in a little back strum where after the pick goes down it catches stuff on the way back up... Experiement with that... Also, once you have all yer basic chords down where the thinkin' part goes away, it will be time to augmnet them by selectively removing one finger of a string and then back... Again, experiement... Also addin' a string... Like makin' a D chord then using yer pinky to cover the 1st string on the 3rd fret and then movin' it up to the 5th fret...

Oh yeah, yer pinky.. The pinky is very important... Try to learn to make as many chords as possible leavin' it free... You'll be needin' it soon and if yer makin' 1st position chords with it, other than like B7th or F then you may find yerself having to tell yer fingers to unlearn stuff... Surprised no one has brought than one up...

Good luck...

...and stay with it...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: Peter T.
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 11:11 AM

Figure out the I, IV, V structure of most songs, and the minors in each key.   You can learn lots of chords, but unless you figure out where they go, it is not very useful.

Take a look at the chords, and figure out what the notes are in them, and then check out the strings!! You will find out that they make up the chords! (This is actually something that many people don't learn, they just keep making TAB shapes, and never get any further than that).

One big step beyond chords is bar chords. This is your first step in climbing up the guitar neck so you don't spend your life at the bottom. See that F chord that is driving you crazy. Move it up two frets and it is a G chord!! and so on. See that E chord? Move it up one fret, and bar the first fret with your first finger, and keep the same E chord shape by moving around your other fingers, and by God it is your F chord!!   (It took me two years to see that the F chord was the E chord up one fret!). AND YOU CAN FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO THIS WITH VIRTUALLY ALL THE CHORDS YOU USE AT THE BOTTOM!



yours,

Peter T.


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 02:23 AM

They're as much use as a chocolate fireguard, Tim. If you have nails good enough to keep them in place then you don't need them.

DC


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 01:07 AM

Any one tried those Alaske picks out the look a bit odd. Cna you strum up and down ok with them?


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 08:45 PM

"Someone once said that all beginners play in 5/4 time"

That's just for Folk Guitarists - other musos have far more random time signatures than that - ask any Piano Teacher!

The Evil Metronome is actually Your Best Friend!


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: Scoville
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 03:14 PM

Heh heh--I'm a pick devotee, myself. Thumb-pick at first and now flat, but you're right that it's probably easier to start out with just a naked thumb until you get the feel for the strings.


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 03:12 PM

One more link ~ thread.cfm?threadid=82280 ~ you'll find this eventually if you start from the link I just provided above, and dig beyond it. But for those not inclined to search diligently, this'll take you immediately to several direct links to earlier discussions of guitar techniques for beginnners.


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 03:06 PM

Here's a link to the "My Developing Guitar Skills" thread ~ specifically, to my final posting at the very bottom of the thread, which provides a couple of pertinent links to earlier discussions.


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 03:02 PM

Equal time: After several mentions of Happy Traum, let me also recommend Stephan Grossman. Both of these guys have been publishing fingerpicking lessons since the mid-sixties, first in print-only tablature form, then expanding to audio tapes and, most recently, DVDs. Grossman's operation is more extensive than Traum's, I believe, and both are about equally helpful.

There have been plenty of threads on tips for guitar beginners ~ this request pops up periodically. I have had plenty to say on this topic on many occasions in the past, but have more-or-less run out of the energy to continue responding with the same stuff repeatedly. The last time I saw one of these threads appear, I looked up the previous thread, which included links to many previous Mudcat discussions on the topic as well as to outside resources like Happy's and Stephen's websites, and provided a link in the new thread. Lemme try to do that again...

By the way, thanks for that link to the fingerpicking video ~ but is it helpful and inspirational, or just plain intimidating? It's too grainy to see exactly where the fingers are being placed, and even if it were flawlessly high-def, I doubt that any beginnner could learn much from it ~ too complicated! I did take note of the guy's Ovation guitar; I wonder if any of the guitar snobs looking in on this thread have anything to say about that!


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: Johnhenry'shammer
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 02:34 PM

Grab, I've tried some stuff with a pick (Dylan's arr. of Man of Constant Sorrow kind of needs a pick to be played well) but I much prefer using my thumb. That also makes it easier to strum selectively.


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: Grab
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 11:52 AM

"Know what fingers go where" and "be able to change between those chords smoothly" are two different things.

Best advice - get a metronome. Then play the chords to your song exactly on the metronome's beat. You'll hate its guts within about 10 seconds, but it works. Not only does it tighten up your right-hand strumming, but it also ensures that you know exactly how long the left-hand changes take. Someone once said that all beginners play in 5/4 time - "strum strum strum strum *change chord* strum strum strum strum *change chord*" - and there's an element of truth in that, because often you don't realise yourself how long the changes are taking.

I have to say that if you can play all those chords smoothly and change between them smoothly after only 2 weeks, you can consider yourself a guitar genius. Seriously. For most people, getting all those chords down to a reasonable level is a good 2-3 months work for most people. I guess it comes down to what you call "being able to play them" - my definition would be a solid 4-strums-to-a-bar at the speed of, say, "Yellow Submarine" (for a song that everyone knows).

Book-wise, if you can get the Russ Shipton series then they'd be a good bet for you. They're very much fingerstyle-centric, and they worked well for me.

For another thing, I'd suggest getting a plectrum and at least trying plectrum stuff. It's a whole different skill, and you might like it. The essential skill with a plectrum is trying to keep the plectrum at 90 degrees to the string, instead of letting it float backwards and forwards as you strum - if you can control that, then you can control your tone.

You say you're going to go looking for a guitar teacher soon. If you do, don't go more often than once every 2 weeks. What you want is not so much someone to tell you what to do every step of the way, as someone to watch you doing what you've learned and then nailing bad habits before they get established.

Graham.


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: Scrump
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 08:23 AM

I don't think we can really advise you on 'what to do next'. At least you've listed a few songs you've played so we have some idea of the type of music you like, but we don't know what style of guitar playing you aspire to. Are there any players you admire and would like to be able to play like? If we knew that, it would be a better point to start from.

My advice would be to go out and see as many good players as you can, or go to sessions and watch how others play, and if you see any you like, watch how they play, and if possible ask them how they do certain things. Most musos are friendly and would be happy to help.


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 02:12 AM

... in the meantime, just do what comes naturally with your right hand...

;-)


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: Don Firth
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 02:02 AM

Thanks for the info, Hammer. I'm going to be tied up for most of Monday, but when I get back, I'll have some suggestions for right hand techniques for you to try. In the meantime, I'm sure other folks will also have things to offer.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: Johnhenry'shammer
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 12:08 AM

Alright Don. I've been playing guitar for I guess about 2 weeks now. I have actually developed calluses on my left fingers already so fretting is no longer painful. I know how to play C, D, E, A, G, A7, B7, D7, Em, Am, and I think that's all I've learned. I've never tried to do anything with my fingers because I wouldn't know what to do with them and that's one of the reasons I started this thread. I really want to learn the fingerstyle. Right now I'm teaching myself out of a book but I hope to take lessons soon. I think the song that I can play well with the most chords in it has 4. By the way, thanks for all the help so far folks.


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 10:13 PM

As 282RA points out. The assumption is that you've only been playing for about a week, in which case it's extremely doubtful that you're anywhere near adept at even basic first position chords. Most people who've only been playing a week have generally reached the point where they're doing darn well if they can manage fairly smooth, and in tempo, changes between C, F, and G7, or any other two or three chord set. And also, they're still wincing a bit because they haven't been playing long enough to build up the necessary calluses on their left-hand fingers. If the assumption was wrong and you've been playing for longer than that and you're just saying you've had your new guitar for about a week, it would have helped to know that.

How long have you been playing? Describe what you can do. What chords can you play? What sort of things do you do with your right hand? Just thumb-strum? Use your fingers individually and together? If we have some idea of what you can already do, it'll be easier to suggest good ways to go from here.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: 282RA
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 08:44 PM

>>So I bought my guitar a little over a week ago and I was wondering if all of you fine people could give me some tips on what to do now?<<

If you have to ask...


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 08:07 PM

"I just hope to be able to play in that finger picking style while singing"

That's very useful for instrumental breaks....

" maybe even while playing harmonica. "

... well, you ain't singing then, unless you normally got your bowels crossed...


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: Scoville
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 05:00 PM

Russ, I started learning in 1993 by playing Woody Guthrie songs (thank goodness he wasn't a virtuoso guitarist!). Good songs are good songs, and it's much easier to focus on learning the chords if you aren't trying to learn the song at the same time.


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: Johnhenry'shammer
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 04:39 PM

If you guys consider just playing chords as simple accompinament then that's exactly what I've been doing. I've never had any trouble singing over my guitar so far. I just hope to be able to play in that finger picking style while singing and maybe even while playing harmonica.


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 04:37 PM

If you thought the Happy Traum clip was inspirational, just wait until you watch THIS


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 02:12 PM

Frank Hamilton makes several very good points. But who is Frank Hamilton, you ask? Well, THIS sort of answers the question. I'd say he knows what he's talking about and I'd heed anything he has to say about folk guitar.

Basic, simple song accompaniment is the place to start. To me, that's the nucleus of the whole thing. A good, straightforward "Burl Ives basic" smoothly played is always appropriate, whereas I've heard a lot of fine songs completely buried under razzle-dazzle guitar work. If singing is what you're about, learn to do simple, straightforward accompaniments first. Then pick up the embellishments.

I worked one summer for a picture framer who did a lot of work for famous artists and for major galleries in the area. He said, "A good frame should reflect elements in the painting itself, such as the shape and the color of the molding. It should set the painting off in space, but it should not draw attention to itself. If people look at a painting and all they can say is, 'Isn't that a great frame?' then, no, it isn't. It's failed its purpose"

I think the same principle applies to a good song accompaniment. If you notice the accompaniment more than the song, then it hasn't done what it's supposed to do:   accompany the song.

Uh . . . I'm afraid I can't agree with Rusty Dobro that it's all in the right hand. Of course this is a somewhat different style of guitar playing, but it gives an idea of just how useful a fairly nimble left hand can be. Clicky #1.

Of course, this is not to say that the right hand can't be pretty important too. Clicky #2. Believe it or not, I used to be able to play that. Still can, sort of.

The lady is a pretty fair picker. (I think I'm in love. . . .).

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 12:46 PM

Alternating bass is an important technique for playing rhythm guitar with a flatpick too, not just for fingerpicking. Just strumming chords can be boring and monotonous. Pluck the note on, say, string 6, strum the chord, pick the note on string 5, strum the chord etc.


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 11:30 AM

I would assume that the goal is to accompany yourself singing. This is a special way of playing and can only be accomplished by having practice doing both.

If this is your goal, learn by playing simple chords as accompaniment to your singing. Forget about scales and isolated techniques. Eventually develop accompaniment patterns with the right hand using fingers or pick.

If you want to branch out later and play guitar as a solo instrument,the effort you put in on playing simply and singing will help your musicianship.

Frank


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 11:06 AM

Lots of good advice in this thread.

I never practice. Practice is work. But I do play every day. Playing is fun.

A personal question.
When I read your original post I had to double check the date. Why, in 2006, are you learning some of the same songs I started with forty five odd years ago?

Russ (Occasionally impudent GUEST)


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: Fortunato
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 10:59 AM

On the alternating bass.
"didn't sound like much"

No it's not meant to be the full sound, simply the root. Imagine you had a standup bass player accompanying you. He might play the root notes of the chord you're in. C and G, for C chord, for example.

thats what you're doing with the alternating bass. in order to travis pick this root must be in place before the rest of the form can be effectively played. if you have recordings of Merle travis or Chet atkins or Doc Watson when he's finger picking, listen for the alternating bass.

chance


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: Banjo-Flower
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 08:57 AM

Trade it in for a tenor banjo

Gerry


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: van lingle
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 07:04 AM

I second the Happy Traum material for learning. I learned fingerstyle from his first two books that were published in the sixties and I'm still learning from them.
A technique I learned from a Christopher Parkening interview some time ago has been very helpful to me. He calls it burnishing and what it entails is practising very slowly and exerting a lot of pressure(i.e. clamping down harder) with your left hand while you do so. This has helped me remember hand and chord positions and will also strengthen your left hand. Of course, use this judiciously and don't over do it.
Exploring the Fingerboard by Russ Barenberg which is available from Homespun is an excellent introduction to learning scales and modes and how they apply to melodies. Good luck, vl


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: Tim theTwangler
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 05:52 AM

There is a lot of good advice on here,but no one mentioned that you can pay a qualified tutor to get you started and maybe to brush up on your technique at different times as you reach the plateau that seem to come when learnig guitar,and probably any other instrument.
Also I find it much too easy to only pratice new stuff for a very short period then drift of into playing what I already love playing.
This is more fun but doesnt lead to great speed of advancment.
Like the infamous "Anji" is really quite simple but my mind wonders and I end up playing around with whatever new song I am trying to fit the words into or find a chord for Doh!
I have met many people who have been playing for thirty or fourty years and they all seem to say they are still learning.
So have patience and good luck.


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 05:25 AM

Such good advice in this thread! I wish I'd spent more time on scales in the past, 'cos I use them a lot now in runs, but most of all, I wish I'd realised earlier that IT'S ALL IN THE RIGHT HAND! (if you play right-handed, of course). The better I pick (finger-style or plectrum), the better I get. Period.


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: Johnhenry'shammer
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 03:54 AM

I watched that clip of Happy Traum and it was amazing! I deffinitely think I'm going to pick up those DVD's because that's exactly the style of guitar I want to play!


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 03:23 AM

The human brain lays down physical nerve pathways for motor skills. They even show up when the brain is examined.

But you need about 3 months for this basic growth to occur. After that, the more you work at the practising of the skills, the more instinctive they become, and the stronger the pathways grow.

Actually, since much of this growth (a fat insulating layer around the nerves fibres in the pathways which increases their electrical insulation, and the effectiveness of carrying the electrical signal) is sourced from Omega 3 based fat, you should make sure your diet includes sufficient Omega 3 - a good source is fish oil, or just eat fish a couple of times a week.

~~~~~
As an ex-ASMF Sports Trainer, I can also tell you that the rule for growing muscles in the gym was:
"A day break a week: a week break a month: and a month break a year".

Muscles grow ONLY when resting: the stress of exercise actually causes real physical micro-damage which the body will repair and increase strength and bulk when resting; if no rest period occurs, you get the physical side effects of 'over training' - cramp is then the very least of your worries, merely a mild warning symptom...


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: Peace
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 11:05 PM

Re 'alternating bass. Good site here.

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:wFpnNHCWd58J:www.guitarland.com/Travis.html+travis+picking&hl=en&gl=ca&ct=clnk&cd=1


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: Scoville
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 10:59 PM

I've got a Happy Traum blues book. Unfortunately, I suck so badly at reading guitar tab I can't use it, but I've heard good things about him.

Alternating bass is the "oom-pah" bass you get from alternating between two notes on beats (sounds like the typical Johnny Cash beat). Sort of imitates a stand-up bass.

Actually, I get "stuck" sometimes and have to stop practicing whatever it is that's "sticking" for maybe a week, and then come back to it. I think mostly I get frustrated, but a short break often helps.

Find someone else to play with, who knows a bit more than you do.

Learn to use a capo. D and A chords will kill your hand after awhile and don't have good bass notes; capo and play C and G. Also, work on learning to recognize chords when other people play them so you can practice chords in "real time". You'll only get a few of them per song at first but eventually it will sink in and it will help you learn to hear chord changes.


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 10:45 PM

"Who's Happy Traum?" you say. I don't know too much about him, but I heard the name a lot in the early and mid-Sixties, and wondered, "What the heck kind of name is that? Is that what he really has on his birth certificate?" Anyway, he knows his way around a guitar. Here's some info on him:   CLICKY.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 10:36 PM

Alternating thumb finger-picking is a bit hard to describe. Easier to show.

Happy Traum has a bunch of guitar lessons out on a pack of DVDs. I sure wish I'd had something like this available when I first started out. I don't have them, but I'm thinking seriously about getting them. I can get around on a guitar pretty well, but there's always more to learn, and I'm sure I could pick up a trick or two from these DVDs.

Anyway, click HERE and scroll down to where it says "See or Hear a Sample of This Lesson," click on whichever link best suits your internet hook-up, and you'll see snippets of Happy Traum's lesson in basic alternating bass finger-picking. It only lasts about two minutes, but it'll give you an idea of what alternating bass finger-picking sounds like, and at least a brief clue as to how it works.

I can't figure out what he means when he says, "Now the thumb shouldn't move," because the whole thing depends on moving the thumb, but then I haven't seen the whole DVD. Toward the end, he plays a snippet of "Green Green Rocky Road" in this style, the after he says "Keep pickin;'" he goes out playing a nice, smooth rendition of "Hobo's Lullabye."

You may not be able to pick up much from this, but maybe enough to get started. Anyway, it illustrates the style.

As Happy Traum says, "Keep pickin.'"

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Beginner Guitar Tips?
From: Johnhenry'shammer
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 09:23 PM

What is this alternating bass thing that everybody keeps talking about? I did what Fortunato told me to do and it didn't really sound like anything...


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