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BS: Technological Dead-ends

Grab 07 Nov 07 - 08:18 AM
McGrath of Harlow 06 Nov 07 - 06:34 PM
Rapparee 06 Nov 07 - 05:26 PM
Rowan 06 Nov 07 - 04:23 PM
Grab 06 Nov 07 - 10:49 AM
Doktor Doktor 06 Nov 07 - 09:25 AM
Grab 06 Nov 07 - 08:32 AM
Rowan 06 Nov 07 - 01:15 AM
McGrath of Harlow 05 Nov 07 - 06:47 PM
JohnInKansas 05 Nov 07 - 05:37 PM
Rowan 05 Nov 07 - 04:38 PM
Neighmond 05 Nov 07 - 02:59 PM
Neighmond 05 Nov 07 - 02:35 PM
McGrath of Harlow 05 Nov 07 - 01:40 PM
JohnInKansas 05 Nov 07 - 10:46 AM
Rapparee 05 Nov 07 - 09:21 AM
DMcG 05 Nov 07 - 08:57 AM
PMB 05 Nov 07 - 06:05 AM
skipy 05 Nov 07 - 05:19 AM
JohnInKansas 05 Nov 07 - 02:23 AM
Rowan 04 Nov 07 - 10:11 PM
Rapparee 04 Nov 07 - 09:38 PM
JohnInKansas 04 Nov 07 - 09:20 PM
Rapparee 04 Nov 07 - 07:00 PM
Rowan 04 Nov 07 - 04:28 PM
Bert 04 Nov 07 - 02:05 PM
Dave'sWife 04 Nov 07 - 07:34 AM
john f weldon 04 Nov 07 - 06:56 AM
JohnInKansas 04 Nov 07 - 06:22 AM
GUEST,leeneia 04 Nov 07 - 12:51 AM
McGrath of Harlow 03 Nov 07 - 09:37 PM
The Fooles Troupe 03 Nov 07 - 09:40 AM
JohnInKansas 03 Nov 07 - 05:15 AM
DMcG 03 Nov 07 - 03:24 AM
JohnInKansas 03 Nov 07 - 01:37 AM
The Fooles Troupe 03 Nov 07 - 01:21 AM
Rowan 03 Nov 07 - 01:08 AM
Rapparee 02 Nov 07 - 05:33 PM
Uncle_DaveO 02 Nov 07 - 05:32 PM
john f weldon 02 Nov 07 - 05:05 PM
Hollowfox 02 Nov 07 - 04:44 PM
Big Al Whittle 02 Nov 07 - 04:00 PM
john f weldon 02 Nov 07 - 03:45 PM
Rapparee 02 Nov 07 - 01:48 PM
john f weldon 02 Nov 07 - 01:10 PM
Rapparee 02 Nov 07 - 12:32 PM
john f weldon 02 Nov 07 - 12:26 PM
Donuel 02 Nov 07 - 09:56 AM
Rapparee 02 Nov 07 - 09:33 AM
GUEST,strad 02 Nov 07 - 08:49 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: Grab
Date: 07 Nov 07 - 08:18 AM

Maybe I don't know enough about brass instruments, Rapaire, but I didn't know there was still significant development on them. Trumpets aren't exactly new, anyway. Still, OK, strike them off if there's people still working on new designs for them. Woodwind though - what's new there?

The problem with "if it ain't broke don't fix it" is that you spend the next 200 years driving a 57 Corvette instead of perhaps coming up with the GT40, Cobra, Countach or F355. Or even a Ford Focus, which will comfortably outperform the Corvette. As Rowan says, Harleys (and Corvettes) are seriously pretty - but in terms of performance they're seriously deficient in comparison to modern vehicles that have had 50 years of incremental improvement from people who *were* prepared to fix it.

When you reach perfection, then fine - there's nothing more to do. But look at violins, for example. Could the crappy pointy edges be replaced with guitar-style bindings which would properly the top and back? Sure, but Stradivarius didn't do it so we won't. Could the neck be thinned and the instrument lightened with strategic use of carbon-fibre? Yes, but S. didn't have carbon-fibre so we won't use it. Could we replace the truly horrible kludge of friction tuning pegs with lightweight geared tuners? Yes, but... Could we get rid of the time-consuming bent-side construction and use straight sides? Yes, but... Could we replace the F-hole ports with a more sensible design? Yes, but...

Graham.


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 06:34 PM

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

I suppose in biological term any successful species is a "biological dead end".


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 05:26 PM

Brass instruments? Like trumpets, perhaps, hmmm?

Well, I suppose that it is a technological dead-end when you've reached perfection.


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: Rowan
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 04:23 PM

Graham, you've suddenly illuminated (for me anyway) the reason why there are so many Harley Davidsons around; their owners (and the wannabees) haven't yet realised that the 1920s are no longer the pinnacle of good engineering.

Cheers, Rowan


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: Grab
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 10:49 AM

And let's be controversial here. Some musical technological dead-ends...

* Woodwind instruments
* Brass instruments
* The violin, viola and cello
* The classical guitar
* Almost the steel-string guitar

Before people reach for big sticks and brickbats, let's define a technological dead-end. To my mind, a technological dead-end is a point where no further progress is possible. The items might still be around, but their design isn't improved on any further. Which gives a clue to where I'm going with this...

Classical musicians simply *won't* play instruments that don't look like the ones made by Stradivarius or Guarani or Torres, no matter how good they sound. Luthiers being ingenious folk, there will always be people who try something different, and you might even find locally-popular variations like Hardanger fiddles, but they never make it into mainstream acceptance. This halts the technology at an arbitrary dead-end.

Steel-string guitars are a bit better off, but even with those there's a serious dead-end to worry about, namely CF Martin and co having set the "accepted" shape of a steel-string guitar. If it doesn't look like a "traditional" steel-string guitar, chances are that it won't sell as well. Luckily there are more steel-string guitarists prepared to favour their ears over their preconceptions, but still most steel-string guitars are using the same Martin construction as 70+ years ago.

And for woodwind and brass, there's only so many configurations of tube and valve which produce different tones or different operating methods, and nothing has changed majorly since Adolphe Sax.

So what *is* still in active development? ("Active" as in "new instruments adopted by the mainstream in the last 50 years", to define terms.) Well, acoustically the mandolin family is the only stringed-instrument group that's had any new types of instruments for years. Double-basses (uniquely amongst the violin family) have some adaptation going on to tailor them for different requirements, mainly I think because everyone acknowledges that a double-bass has big design flaws ("big" being one of those design flaws!). Electrics obviously, although even there you've mainly got a choice of single-coil or humbucker and all amps are trying to sound like a valve amp - not that these are bad sounds, but there are other sounds out there. And after that we're looking at pure-electronic music - synths and the like. Sure, there *are* different designs around for various instruments, but none that show any real prospect of dislodging the status quo.

The one major innovation in all of this is production-line assembly, which has radically reduced the cost and improved the quality of almost all instruments. Still and all, that's just automating a manual process - the end result isn't any different except in having better quality control.

I'm not saying that the "Golden Age" instruments (and it's very telling that Martin actually do call their instruments that) are somehow defective, I'm just saying that they're not necessarily the pinnacle of perfection. It's a bit like the world has arrived at the musical equivalent of the '57 Corvette and said, "Right, that's beautiful, so we don't need anything else."

Graham.


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: Doktor Doktor
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 09:25 AM

The Rolph Harris Stylophone
and the bigger equivalent
The Moog


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: Grab
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 08:32 AM

GTO thyristors

Still in use, or were about 10 years back, and I see no reason why it'd be otherwise. The branch of Alstom I worked for used them as the switches for their high-voltage DC converters - for the uninitiated, think of the wall-wart for converting mains AC to DC and the inverter for converting your car battery DC to mains AC, and then scale the whole lot up to power-station size!

A4 XY plotters

You'll find quite a few electronics hobbyists making these from scratch, because they're better than printers, and you can't buy them now for less than a grand. I used to have an A3 one I got from a friend, but it stopped working and I never needed it enough to make it worth repairing. It went through three houses with me, but sadly I had to face facts and junk it when we moved to the fourth.

gas pokers

Hey, those are still around - two quid down the market, anywhere you care to look.


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: Rowan
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 01:15 AM

McGrath, one of the first vacation jobs I had as a uni student was with Tattersalls, the people who ran the original lotteries in Victoria, Oz. They transferred a barrel containing 150,000 "marbles" (they're actually wooden, as glass ones disintegrate and metal ones act as a ball mill) from Tasmania to Victoria and wanted to use the barrel (but only 100,000 marbles) in various lotteries. Victoria's gaming legislation required the Auditor General to inspect the contents of such barrels and ensure there was one, and only one, of every numbered marble.

So I, along with 11 other uni students and 12 Tatts ladies, sorted out all 150,000 marbles in consecutive order from 1 to 100,000. I can visualise, probably better than most, exactly how many chances you have of getting "the winning marble" and I've never entered a lottery (well, not that sort) since.

I'd wish John the chance that he purchased something that had his lifetime's duration of usefulness, but it sounds like he has an extraordinary collection of such things already, in addition to the ones that are technological dead ends. "Beam compasses" indeed! And he's probably got a bottle of pounce hidden away as well!

Cheers, Rowan


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 06:47 PM

"If I buy it, it will DISAPPEAR."

I hope you win the lottery, John, and if you do make sure to buy a 4x4. And I'm sure we could come up with a long list of other splendid purchases...


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 05:37 PM

Rowan -

The simple answer to "What is a technological dead end?" appears to be "Anything I've bought."

Computers are an obvious one, especially laptops. My "working perfectly" laptop that needed a memory upgrade to go to the next generation OS before it was a year old encountered "that memory chip is not made any more."

My digital camera uses the then (4 years ago) most popular memory card, which is now obsolete and replacements (or spares) unavailable.

About three months after I upgraded my camera to a brand new Canon A-1, partly because of the vast selection of available lenses, they announced a completely new and entirely incompatible line of lenses that I can't mount on mine, and mine won't mount on any of the new ones.

Within 30 days after I signed the mortgage on my camper, I visited the maker's website and found a big sign saying "MODEL DISCONTINUED, NO INFORMATION AVAILABLE" (and I've still got a years worth of payments left).

If I buy it, it will DISAPPEAR.

Especially if I like it.

(But I never bought a BetaMax.)

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: Rowan
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 04:38 PM

This thread demonstrates one of the lovely aspects of Mudcat. A forum grounded on music putatively from the folk, and here we are in the BS, below the line, detailing escapements, electronics, logarithms, differences between the Merck Index and the Merck Diagnostic Index and how one might define 'reminiscences'.

And then McGrath spoils it all by lumping concertinas into the category of "dead end". Sigh!

Now, if he'd said "Linhof 6x9 limited movement press cameras using 70mm film" instead, I'd have believed him. I own both but I only still use the concer.

Cheers, Rowan


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: Neighmond
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 02:59 PM

he last post was incomplete. Here is the whole thing.

"Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: john f weldon
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 07:47 AM

If by clockwork, you mean a simple wind-up spring, I agree. If you mean an elaborate device that requires dozens of tiny spinning wheels on diamond hubs, thus costing thousands, when more accurate digital time-keeping chips are available for pennies, the clockwork is simply a waste of human time and money.
Like the sedan chair."


My, my! Someone has been to the watchmaker's and didn't like it a'tall! Too bad you didn't ask them to explain the mechanics of the watch so you could at least have that right.

The average mechanical movement has only eight wheels, the hubs of which are steel, NOT diamond. The bearings are jeweled, but even then only five are usually jeweled, and jeweled with synthetic ruby or sapphire. Diamond is only used as end stones (four at the very most, 1mm or less across, )and even then sparingly. As of last fall, the value of an unset watch jewel averaged to $6.50; the rest is the labor to fit it.

As for "costing thousands" I can sell you all of the mechanical gents' watches you want with a jeweled lever movement for nowhere near a thousand. Hell-I can sell you a real nice pocket watch for pretty cheap too.

It wasn't too long ago that quartz watches had to be regulated for each wearer by trimming the capacitors, which was every bit a nuisance as adjusting the hairspring and balance wheel of a mechanical watch.

As for the Bulova Accutron, it was a transitive technology, a bridge between the mechanical timepiece and the modern day quartz-controlled watches. It was the second wave of timepieces where the escapement drove the gear train, instead of the other way 'round. The electrically impulsed balance wheel movements were the first, and Hamilton Watch Comany of Lancaster PA made them in the fifties. The Accutron used an IC and tuning fork to maintain a frequency, which was a vast improvement over the balance wheel rate wise, as well as having less moving parts. The real problem with the Accutrons was tuning forks and indexing wires/jewels/wheels wearing out or getting damaged.


Finally, I wouldn't have a digital for any price. I can read my plain-Jane old Hamilton pocket watch across the room, and it's easy to work on, doesn't contribute any waste with dead batteries, and I sure as hell don't need anything more accurate than .2 sec/day which is its mean rate.


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: Neighmond
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 02:35 PM

"Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: john f weldon
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 07:47 AM

If by clockwork, you mean a simple wind-up spring, I agree. If you mean an elaborate device that requires dozens of tiny spinning wheels on diamond hubs, thus costing thousands, when more accurate digital time-keeping chips are available for pennies, the clockwork is simply a waste of human time and money.
Like the sedan chair."


My, my! Someone has been to the watchmaker's and didn't like it a'tall! Too bad you didn't ask them to explain the mechanics of the watch so you could at least have that right.

The average mechanical movement has only eight wheels, the hubs of which are steel, NOT diamond. The bearings are jeweled, but even then only five are usually jeweled, and jeweled with synthetic ruby or sapphire. Diamond is only used as end stones (four at the very most, 1mm or less across, )and even then sparingly. As of last fall, the value of an unset watch jewel averaged to $6.50; the rest is the labor to fit it.

As for "costing thousands" I can sell you all of the mechanical gents' watches you want with a jeweled lever movement for nowhere near a thousand. Hell-I can sell you a real nice pocket watch for pretty cheap too.

Finally, I wouldn't have a digital for any price. I can read my plain-Jane old Hamilton pocket watch across the room, and it's easy to work on, doesn't contribute any waste with dead batteries, and I sure as hell don't need anything more accurate than .2 sec/day which is its mean rate.

As for the Bulova Accutron, it was a transitive technology, a bridge between the mechanical timepiece and the modern day quartz-controlled watches.


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 01:40 PM

If you ever need logarithm tables they are available on line - for example.

Lots of the stuff mentioned here are of course still available and used by some people, as and when they do the job best, it's just that the fashion for them which made them market leaders has moved on. Rather the same as happened to concertinas and banjos at the end of the 19th century.


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 10:46 AM

Square roots are pretty simple, but notation to illustrate would be tedious here. I always had to re-derive the method for cube roots every time I needed it, since I never used it enough to remember.

For square roots, it's basically using

(a+b)2 = a2+2ab+b2

and using "pairs of digits" and just "thinking backwards."

And do we remember when your "hi fi" system garnered sneers and disrespectful comments if you didn't have at least 10 pounds of output transformers per watt? And 30W per channel was a monster.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: Rapparee
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 09:21 AM

I wish I could remember how to extract square and cube roots WITHOUT a book or calculator or computer. I was taught to do this in grade school, but have forgotten.


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: DMcG
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 08:57 AM

I still have a copy of a book with six figure log tables. Anyone got a book of logs with seven or more?

Last night I was reading a book called "Mathmatician's Delight" by W.W. Sawyer, published in 1943, which has about eight chapters on things he saw as fundamental for understanding practical mathematics - trigonometry, differential calculus and so on. One of the chapters was on logarithms.

I must stress this is not the sort of book I usually pick to while away an evening...


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: PMB
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 06:05 AM

Peltier-Seebeck is still in use- processor coolers in computers, and the cute little fan that sat on the stove of the narrowboat and blew the air about when it got warm, until someone banged into a lock and it fell off and broke.

But bubble memory, the steam tables (and log and trig tables for that matter), GTO thyristors, Strowger switches, Karnaugh maps, rub- on PCB transfers (2x and 4x size), A4 XY plotters, *FX graphics commands, the column mounted manual gearstick, Trafficators, starting handles, bus and milk tokens, Sparklets powered corkscrews, artificial cream makers, hand meat mincers, Redex, Bri-nylon, Liberty bodices, Jumping Jacks, tub washing machines with roller wringers, gas pokers....


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: skipy
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 05:19 AM

Peltier–Seebeck and Thomson effects
Skipy


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 Nov 07 - 02:23 AM

Rowan -

Citing a reference only two generations old hardly counts as a reminiscence!!! The Merck Index is well known, and I've consulted library copies a couple of times; but I've never had one since I figured out it wouldn't help my first wife's cooking.

I do have a half-dozen different editions of the Merck Diagnostic manuals, including the "reprint" of the first one - that came bundled with the "Centenial Edition" (17th), but these aren't really "dead end" things since they're all continuing series.

Among ones falling into obscurity, Rapaire may also remember "Jahnke and Emde" and/or "James and James" - both of which I also remember using a lot but haven't the foggiest idea of the "real titles."

*****Oops: retraction. I found my Funktionentafeln Mit Formeln Und Kurven, Eugene Jahnke and Fritz Emde, Stuttgart 1933, 2d ed 1938, Dover Reprint of 1938 edition 1959. - - - - A really handy little book - then.

Which gets to the obsolescence issue:

Remember when one had to understand the equations in order to solve them, instead of just letting the computers make guesses for you?

It's the understanding that's obsolete and in ill repute, I guess.

It once was said that "When you understand the question, the answer will be obvious." Now it's not necessary since digital approximations are accepted (almost) universally as "answers" without the need to even remember what the questions were. Douglas Adams was right!

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: Rowan
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 10:11 PM

John, you and Rapaire have gazumped me! I can't rake up my Kaye & Laby (four-figure) or Castle (5-figure) maths tables; all I can muster is a Merck Index, 12th Ed., which has no maths tables in it at all. I feel somewhat ... inadequate in such company.

But my Seiko (Sports 100, at 1" across it's the smallest waterprrof watch I could find in 1980) is in my hip pocket, sans strap, and quite accurate enough for my current purposes. It has a digital panel that is supposed to do everything except make coffee but the analogue display suits me fine.

Cheers, Rowan


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 09:38 PM

Actually, I have both the Math Tables and the Statistical Tables handbooks. And they are no more than 3 years old, although the data contained might be (pi, for instance, only gets longer and after the first seventy-five or so decimal places it becomes a bit unwieldy).

They're still available and can be purchased.

I also own a book on how to use a slide rule. Again, for most projects two decimal places is enough.


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 09:20 PM

Rapaire -

You probably mean the CRC Standard Mathematical Tables when you refer to the CRC Handbook. I have a copy and actually have used it fairly recently. I also have two different editions of Burrington's (very similar to the CRC Math Tables, for those not familiar) which contains a few "integral equivalents" not found in the CRC Math Tables.

The CRC Math tables, however, are only one section - extracted and published separately - from the Rubber Manual, of which I also have one complete copy.

For the uninitiated, the "Rubber Manual" is the Handbook of Chemistry and Physics, so-called because it's compiled by the "Chemical Rubber Corporation" (CRC). My 41st edition (1959) is a 3,472 page collection of still (marginally?) useful data, but it goes back to ca. 1914 in origins, and so far as I know is still occasionally updated and published. Mine is missing the physical constants on a few dozen elements discovered since publication, but most of the ones missing are too expensive to be used for home projects, so I don't find their absence too much of a limitation.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: Rapparee
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 07:00 PM

Actually, hula hoops are quite alive and are being used for exercise classes and other things.

I wear a Seiko watch which is a chronograph -- it has an "elapsed time"   ring, a stopwatch accurate to one-one hundredth of a second, an alarm function, and a second clock face. It also supplies the date, but not the day or month or year, so I only know that today is the 4 of sometime.

I also have a half-dozen slide rules; I'm collecting varies items to make a wall box like the one described and I already have a GENUINE IBM card!

(I also have a copy of the CRC Handbook on my desk at work for quick reference. "Stand back! I've got a table of cosines here and I know how to use it!")


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: Rowan
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 04:28 PM

JiK's collection of compasses sounds a bit like mine, and "Accutron" was the name of the tuning fork watch John described. The "chronometer" I castigated had a purely mechanical movement and predated the Accutrons.

Pageant (the a cappella group I sang with in Oz) had a member who gave us our reference pitch on her descant recorder but Rumbylowe (from Brisbane) had Martin Gallagher's watch. Martin had an Accutron and it was amusing to watch Rumbylowe get their reference pitch on stage. The Accutron gave a barely audible sound which was a few cents above D and certainly good enough to use; Martin would put his wrist up to his ear, hum the note and they'd all be into it. Great stuff!

Cheers, Rowan


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: Bert
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 02:05 PM

An electric carving knife is great for cutting batts of fibreglass insulation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 07:34 AM

DIVX

Laser Discs - I loved those. My husband and I have a HUGE collection, mostly gifts from Joh Woo when he worked with him. We sold off some of the Criterion ones in 2000 during the Actors/Writers Strike when he was briefly laid off but we're reluctant to get rid of most of them. We keep our Disc player up and running because DVDs really cannot compare in terms of clarity and qaulity of picture. I wish we hadnt sold our copy of The Innocents. I had a question about that song the little girl sings and would have liked to go back and go thru it slowly.


DVDs - BluRay or other such tech will soon replace it as a format.

Phenylpropanolamine
The former active ingredient in Alka Seltzer Cold forumla and Appetite suppressents such as Dexatrim. A study suggested it might cause strokes if consumed in large amounts by bulemic teenagers or some such and so it was removed from the market despite being a very effective cold medicine. It's still available in Europe.


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: john f weldon
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 06:56 AM

The old version of alka-seltzer came in two packages of powder. You stirred one pack into each of two glasses and then pour one glass into the other to make it fizz. It really went off like a bomb. My grandpa used to think it funny to get someone to drink one glass, then the other.


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 06:22 AM

Although they're not the popular Xmas/wedding gift they were for a while, electric knives are still very much around. One of the most prominent places where they turn up for sale is in the sporting goods stores or sports departments at gen merch places.

The ones there are mostly battery powered. There's the "electric fillet knife" so that you can use them out there in the boat to get that fish cleaned and on ice and don't have to hurry back to the dock. A larger version is for field dressing your "big game" right on the tailgate of your pickup truck (or to cut it up into pieces small enough that you can lift them to put them in the truck - I suppose(?)).

Now the samples of "electric scissors" (for home/hobby use) that I've seen are an idea that hasn't died yet - but probably should ...

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 04 Nov 07 - 12:51 AM

McGrath listed the electric can-opener and the carving knife. I bought an electric can opener when my wrists were hurting from turning over bolts of fabric on the job. (It hurt to open a can.)

I use an electric knife to cut up ham when we cook free lunch for 200 at a local church. Again, it's easier on the hands.

A lot of dead ends are minor:

lipstick that you put on and lick to spread it
shampoo that had one green portion and one blue until you shook it
pop beads
hula hoops

Bye for now. I'm off for a week starting tomorrow.


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 09:37 PM

On the other hand technology can sometimes turn up surprises - for example the rickshaws you now run into in London streets(sometimes literally).


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 09:40 AM

Qvack!

there's a Swedish one for you John....


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 05:15 AM

Yup. I have several compasses ...

Beam compasses, bow compasses, pen compasses, and some really sexy "french curves" ...

But for "projects" I'll often just grab a bean can and run a pencil around the bottom of it - sometimes with a selected one of my graded set of washers to "stand off" to a more convenient radius.

I do seem to have misplaced my "spline ducks" though.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: DMcG
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 03:24 AM

Polaroid film.

Referring back to JohnInKansas' post: I heard a lecture while at University from an IBM guru talking about the limits of minaturisation in computers and how we could not get computers much smaller than they were in the sixties because you couldn't make the rings from core memory much smaller ...


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 01:37 AM

One of the first "digital drive" watches used a tuning fork for its frequency reference. My recollection is that most of them had an analog face, but the timing was done by an oscillator PLL locked onto the fork.

Accuracy was excellent, and they were fairly nominal in cost when compared to "clockwork" timekeepers with "similarly superior" accuracy. The airplane guys where I was working at the time immediatel rushed to provide one for each of their test pilots. They soon found, however, that when struck - or struck against something - in one particular axis/orientation, the fork bent extremely easily and the watches stopped, or at least stopped being as accurate as the average sundial.

The particular direction required to destroy the timepiece was peculiarly coincident with the angle at which a pilot's wrist quite frequently bumped into center console throttle/pitch/mixture knobs, and they lost at least a half dozen of these fine timepieces within a couple of months of handing the first ones out.

They had a sort of funny name, like "Accutron" or something similar. The watches were marketed for some time, and were reasonably durable for most "civilians" one supposes; but they were not used much by our pilots after the first couple of rounds of mass replacements.

They're probably valuable "collectors' items" now, although I'm sure someone here will tell me they're still using one that they bought on ebay last month.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 01:21 AM

"how do you tell the height of a building using a barometer?"

The best answer I have seen is:

Find the building watchman/repair man. Give him the barometer if he will tell you the height of the building.


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: Rowan
Date: 03 Nov 07 - 01:08 AM

Bert, before they demolished our computer lab, its wall had a slide rule mounted on the wall behind a 'break glass' panel under a sign that said "In case of power failure, break glass." But, you're right; the little $5 solar powered calculators have generally put slide rules out of business, along with tables of logarithms, sines, cosines and tangents.

And Foolestroup is right; as a caller I had to explain "clockwise" and its antonym to younger audiences. Having been given a digital-display watch I was able to compare the distances at which I could correctly discern time when viewing both it and an analogue display; the analogue won by a factor of at least three. I seem to recall a story about how an employee in a Swiss watch factory invented the digital watch and couldn't interest his employers; "It will never catch on!" is the translation of their apparent response. So he sold the idea to Casio, I'm told.

And, as for expensive Swiss watches being regarded as "certified chronometers", what a load of garbage! I was given one of those once and took it to Mawson where I was able to compare it with a caesium standard (we had the Pageos program with us for the winter) for 8 months or so; it's variability from week to week was appallingly huge.

Steam cars and Tesla turbines seem to have been dead ends though.

Cheers, Rowan


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 05:33 PM

Stand on the bank of the stream and pull down the brim of your hat (or use your hand as an eyeshade) until it "touchs" the other shore. Now carefully turn and note where the "shoreline" would be on your side of the stream. Mark it in your mind (or have a friend physically do so) and pace off from where you are standing to the "shoreline" mark. It's pretty accurate, within reason of course.

Yes, I meant onagers. Also ballistae. All sorts of things. (An oranger was a medieval weapon that flung rotten oranges at the enemy.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 05:32 PM

The first computer I ever worked with (and I was 3 years out of college at the time) ran on vacuum tubes and was programmed with a roll of one-inch-wide paper tape with holes punched into it. The first thing we did each morning was to bang it underneath with a baseball bat to shake the condensation loose.

This is technically referred to as "percussive maintenance".

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: john f weldon
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 05:05 PM

In my youth... ...in the very town I still live in... ...the breadman and the milkman came by horse and cart! That was old technology! Alas, the streets were filled with horseshit, and the big laugh was if the horse pooped right under your bedroom window at 5 am. A sweet smell in the country, but that close, it could wake the dead!

(no one calls me ramblin john)


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: Hollowfox
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 04:44 PM

Repaire m'friend, I know folks who build these. Also ballistas. Luckily, they all keep their day jobs to support such hobbies.


Slings
Trebuchets
Orangers (Isn't that onagers?)


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 04:00 PM

I recall with pleasure that Timex advert whwere they used to tie the Timex watch to a horse's hoof, and send it over the jumps, and then they directed a hose pipe on it to wash off the mud, andsure enough the the Timex was still there tied to that very same horse's hoof.


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: john f weldon
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 03:45 PM

Reminds me of the old test question; how do you tell the height of a building using a barometer?

Answer: Drop the barometer from the top and count off seconds till you hear the crash...

Uh... ...If I see a tree on the other side and walk along side till the tree seems about a 45 degree angle?


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 01:48 PM

Know how to estimate the width of a river if you only know the length of your pace (and you can't walk on water)?


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: john f weldon
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 01:10 PM

I hope the human brain will be around for a while. It's nice to keep in mind some idea of the phase of the moon, position of the stars, a few general tricks that can keep you "located". Shadows! Triangulation! Some of that Boy Scout stuff still comes in handy!


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 12:32 PM

Yup. I have several compasses: map, lensatic, pin-on. And I know how to use 'em, with and without a map, too. (I can also find direction by various other, non-compass, methods. Always handy to know, because compasses can be broken.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: john f weldon
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 12:26 PM

Books are still good, and will be for for a long time. If taken care of the last longer than some of the modern media. Burned CD - 10 years ave. Burned DVD - 5 yrs average.
Dead Sea Scrolls? 2000+ years?

Analog watches with digital innards, fine.
Old timex wind-ups (are any still working?) for the terminally future-challenged.
Rolexes for the obscenely rich & stupid.
Fake Rolexes for the gullible.
You know what you can use for a compass? A compass! They're still cheap!


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 09:56 AM

laser fusion power generators.


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 09:33 AM

You can also use an analog watch face as a compass.

And don't for a minute think a compass is an example! GPS is alright as far as it goes, but when you run out of batteries it's just extra weight.

Consider, too, the long slow "death" of the book. Consider the implications of reading an e-book which soaking in a nice hot tub...and dropping it. Consider being out camping, e-book in hand, and running out of toilet paper...or needing tinder to light a fire. (I am, of course, being facetious here. But books -- words printed on paper -- will be around long, long after you and I are dust.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Technological Dead-ends
From: GUEST,strad
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 08:49 AM

I use a watch with an analogue face 'cos that way I can tell the time without putting on my specs to read it. A digital display big enough for me to read is just too big for my wrist, so there!

Clockwork oranges are good too!


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