Join The Current Anti-War Movement:!!!!

Subject: RE: Join The Current Anti-War Movement:!!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Aug 02 - 12:26 PM

Assailing my anonymity won't change the fact that I provided everyone here with valuable information, and did so without kowtowing to your overly sensitive hissy fit, kat.

You read WAY too much into my original post, which was not a comment on you or harpgirl, but the organization to which the link was provided. Maybe if you could get beyond the fact that just because someone chooses to remain anonymous, doesn't automatically mean they are here solely to attack members. That is your paranoia, and your chosen reality, not mine.

If you were serious and genuine about the anti-war effort, you could actually apologize for getting all snooty to begin with kat. Or is that not something the too-proud members can do in the name of peace here?

Subject: RE: Join The Current Anti-War Movement:!!!!
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Aug 02 - 12:10 PM

I'm sorry, too, harpgirl, just didn't feel like letting it slide this time. I agree with your reasons for starting this thread and will read it with interest. Thanks...

Subject: RE: Join The Current Anti-War Movement:!!!!
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Aug 02 - 12:07 PM

FIRST GUEST said, Hell, my Working Assets phone bill campaigns does better than this. That's it, that's all....leading one to believe IT meant harpgirl's efforts and those of others on this website were worthless. There was nothing saying otherwise, which led me to make an observation.

Quite a psychological phenomenon you've got there...taking the high road through anonymity...sure can't prove anything about yourself that way, though, can you? What protest march were you last in? Oh, you were the one with a bag over your head? WOuldn't want the neighbours to know it was you, eh?

Subject: RE: Join The Current Anti-War Movement:!!!!
From: harpgirl
Date: 03 Aug 02 - 12:03 PM

...geez kat, I'm sorry I started something that has led to this aggressive attack on your remarks. I sinceerely, think that some of us mudcatters might be interested in investigating and acting against an Iraq/American war. So perhaps you folks should have a few shots at me, as well???

Subject: RE: Join The Current Anti-War Movement:!!!!
From: DougR
Date: 03 Aug 02 - 11:59 AM

The sky is falling!

DougR

Subject: RE: Join The Current Anti-War Movement:!!!!
From: harpgirl
Date: 03 Aug 02 - 11:58 AM

...thank you for the feedback, troll. I just began my internet research last night and I haven't gone too far into that particular website. I do see great value in starting research on legitimate anti-war movements with regard to the Iraq/American war which is being telegraphed to US citizenry by the current administration. And I am glad to see the other links being posted. I suspect our politics diverge on this issue but so be it.

I guess you sang "A drop of Saddam's blood wouldn't do us any harm..." while you were in Japan, then, eh??????

As for Guest, I appreciate your research and information. As for "playing along with the internet chat group activists"; I'm sure that bringing this up will get many people thinking and some more to act. hg hg

Subject: RE: Join The Current Anti-War Movement:!!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Aug 02 - 11:58 AM

Bobert, methinks you are trying to either cover your ass here, or make yourself look good in the eyes of your Mudcat cronies.

In response to my post, you try to make it appear as thought pacifists and peace activists are somehow morally superior to non-pacifists and anti-war activists. Where I come from, we call that little game "divide and conquer". Seems to me you ain't much of a peacenik at all if that is what you are about here.

Subject: RE: Join The Current Anti-War Movement:!!!!
From: GUEST,truckerdave
Date: 03 Aug 02 - 11:56 AM

What a laugh. US backed Israeli war crimes!!!!!????????

Subject: RE: Join The Current Anti-War Movement:!!!!
From: GUEST,Friend of our Guest
Date: 03 Aug 02 - 11:52 AM

I agree with our guest, Kat's beligerence led to his reply. It is the same reason war with Iran is justified.

The responsibility for all deaths in war lies with the aggressor who initiates force, not with those who defend themselves.

War is terrible but sometimes necessary. To win this current war, we must not let an immoral concern with "innocents" weaken our resolve. We have the right to destroy those who initiate force to deprive us of our rights and lives. With full moral certainty we must urge our government to defend our lives, even if that requires nuclear weapons and hundreds of thousands of deaths in terrorist countries such as Iran.

Subject: RE: Join The Current Anti-War Movement:!!!!
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Aug 02 - 11:47 AM

You're absolutely right, GUEST, anit-war does not + peace, but it's the first step and if that's all you are ready for, then, hey, I'm real happy to have you part of the way there. But I'm real sorry that peace ain't your cup of tea because if it were, I think you'd be enjoying life's journey a tad more. And this isn't directed at personally but just sound advice for all of us.

Peace

Bobert

Subject: RE: Join The Current Anti-War Movement:!!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Aug 02 - 11:37 AM

Bobert, I ain't no pacifist, so hows about you chill? Anti-war does not = peace, and the activist ain't interchangeable.

Don't like my gruff presentation? Look to kat's post chastising me in a really patronizing way, eh? She fired the first shot, not me. Just because she didn't like my opinion or the way I expressed it, doesn't mean she was right to say disparagingly:

"how predicatable and childish"

What is good for the goose is good for the gander, it's a two way street, etc etc

Subject: RE: Join The Current Anti-War Movement:!!!!
From: Amos
Date: 03 Aug 02 - 11:27 AM

Links to anti-war groups in Japan, England, Minnesota, and Ireland can be found on this page.

Subject: RE: Join The Current Anti-War Movement:!!!!
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Aug 02 - 11:27 AM

Chill, GUEST, while your information is appreciated your delivery leaves room for improvement. Attacking folks ain't the way to demonstrate peace, but quite the opposite. There's a big difference between referring to one's behavior as "childish" and " but rarely know sh*t about the subjects you claim to be so supportive of". I'm not condoning Kat's remarks, just pointing out how quickly you were willing to escalate the conflict. This is how wars get started.

Peace is more than words, marching, writing letters. It's about how we react to others and situations. Its about win-win. It's about forgiving without being asked to forgive. It's a state of mind where you want comfort for others. Where you respect others.

Sure, you can go ahead and give me the blast here because I am not the hall monitor of the internet and you have the right to say what you want. I'm not trying to put you down, Guest, put pull you up onto the peace wagon. My motives a peaceful, not adversarial.

Peace

Bobert

Subject: RE: Join The Current Anti-War Movement:!!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Aug 02 - 11:21 AM

Also, I would like to point out that this "international march" isn't on the radar at Protest.net:

http://www.protest.net/

Or at Peace.Protest.net:

http://pax.protest.net/

The latter page is where the anti-war actions get posted. Indymedia's Peace page links to Peace.Protest.net, for instance. The Indymedia website is the most linked site for social justice activism in the world, and this organization isn't on their radar either.

Here is AFSC's (American Friends Service Committee) Campaign of Conscience website on Iraq:

http://www.afsc.org/conscience/Default.shtm

The Campaign of Conscience is one of the main peace movement coordinated campaigns, and includes others like Fellowship of Reconciliation, and other organizations who have been in the anti-war movement trenches on Iraq since the Gulf War. People's Rights Fund, Inc. isn't on their radar either.

Nor is there a link to the organization at the Iraq Action Coalition's website here:

http://iraqaction.org/

And finally, the National Network to End the War (one of the biggest coalitions working to end sanctions, etc) doesn't have this group on their list either. Here is their website, which has a member list by state, and this organization (ie both International A.N.S.W.E.R. and People's Rights Fund Inc.) isn't on it. Here is their website:

http://www.endthewar.org/default-new.htm

Any one of these websites I've listed have ways for people to get plugged in to the anti-war effort in their local areas. Rather than reinvent the wheel, it usually makes more sense to join the movement already adept at doing this sort of work.

And I'm currently checking out this organization through movement contacts to see if they are legit. There is the possibility that this is an Internet scam (since all they seem to be about is collecting money). Forewarned is forearmed, as they say.

Subject: RE: Join The Current Anti-War Movement:!!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Aug 02 - 10:45 AM

No it isn't. It is a realistic assessment of the website. I saw no evidence of serious involvement in the anti-war movement on the web site linked to, and I did further follow-up by doing a web search on the organization collecting funds, the People's Rights Funds, Inc. whose website (which doesn't tell you much of anything about who these people are) found here:

http://www.peoplesrightsfund.org/

So I went to Guidestar, the national database for information on nonprofits (a standard tool used by activists to find financial information on legitimate 501(C)3 nonprofits, and it has no listing there. Guidestar's website is here:

http://www.guidestar.org/index.jsp

This organization isn't in any of the databases those of us working in the social justice movement use to check on an outfit claiming to be a nonprofit. It wasn't listed at the About.com Nonprofit Charitable Orgs:

http://nonprofit.about.com/index.htm

or at the Foundation Center's website list of online nonprofits, found here:

http://fdncenter.net/funders/grantmaker/gws_pubch/publist.html

The fact of the matter is kat, you are the one being childish and naive, not to mention patronizing. I've been around Mudcat long enough enough to know that you love to spout lovely rhetoric, but rarely know shit about the subjects you claim to be so supportive of. Like this for instance. Rather than playing along with the internet chat group activists -) here at Mudcat, I'd rather just be honest, and call a spade a spade. If that offends you, so be it. This website looks suspicious to me.

I also posted to the Orwellian thread, telling harpgirl that if she wanted help finding a way to get connected into the anti-war movement, to post her city of residence, and I would post contacts for her in the thread.

Everyone else, I suggest you put on your caveat emptor glasses when viewing this website.

Subject: RE: Join The Current Anti-War Movement:!!!!
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Aug 02 - 10:06 AM

let your fingers do the walking and then disparage others...how predicatable and childish

Subject: RE: Join The Current Anti-War Movement:!!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Aug 02 - 09:44 AM

Hell, my Working Assets phone bill campaigns does better than this.

Subject: RE: Join The Current Anti-War Movement:!!!!
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Aug 02 - 09:39 AM

troll, did you look around at the moveon dot org site? It is a grassroots org. of Americans from all sides of the spectrum who got together during the Clinton bs with congress and the cigar. Based on what each person registers as important to them, they spearhead email and letterwriting campaigns to champion the chosen causes. They are on the up and up...I've interviewed them and written articles on them.

I am a bit leary of the one harpgirl listed, too, except that it does seem to be college students, which may bode well.:-)

kat

Subject: RE: Join The Current Anti-War Movement:!!!!
From: Troll
Date: 03 Aug 02 - 06:07 AM

Who is A.N.S.W.E.R? Who are the founders, financial backers, etc. Their articles seem a bitlong long on rhetoric. They mention "commissions" that I've never heard of as if they were some sort of official organization charged with the task of investigating specific " International Crimes".
The article speaks as though the guilt of the US were already a foregone conclusion and any "investigating" would simply be to drive the nails in the coffin. Plot your curve and then gather data to fit it, I guess.
Until I know a hell of a lot more about these groups and their total agenda, I'll pass.
The enemy of my enemy is NOT necessarily my friend.

troll

Subject: RE: Join The Current Anti-War Movement:!!!!
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Aug 02 - 01:09 AM

I was serious, too. Really glad you started this thread! Here's another org. which is gathering opinions and, I am sure, will move this up to current campaign status; it's a good org.: Moveon.org be sure to check their forums where you can post your own opinion and rate those of others.

We need some good slogans/bumper stickers, harpgirl...

Subject: Join The Current Anti-War Movement:!!!!
From: harpgirl
Date: 03 Aug 02 - 12:20 AM

Here's where to start!

Protest The War!