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Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: voyager Date: 25 Jan 09 - 03:55 PM Here's a thread in praise of The Seeger Family, 1st Folksingers to the Nation - Seeger Family Concert - March '07 in Silver Spring, MD. voyager (who missed the concert on the Mall) |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 24 Jan 09 - 07:43 PM Property is property, corporate has rights too |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 24 Jan 09 - 07:42 PM So there you go |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 24 Jan 09 - 07:29 PM If they've been trying to get amateur clips from the crowd taken down they haven't managed to do it. I'd be surprised of they'd have been stupid enough to even try, though you never can tell. And of course it's proved impossible to take down the "official" clip of the song either - it just pops up again. Which was obviously going to be the case. Private property has its limits. And so has that mutant version, corporate property. |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 24 Jan 09 - 05:16 PM "I cannot accept their censorship of "amateur" videos taken at the event that may have been posted on YouTube, or on people's personal websites and Facebook/Myspace pages, etc. " Once again, "video" rights were purchased by HBO. You don't have to accept the fact, but it is a fact. They have done nothing wrong or unethical. Until we know what future plans they may have, they are protecting their rights. Also, I'm not sure that original statement is even correct. |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: Joybell Date: 24 Jan 09 - 05:13 PM It was shown so late here I was asleep. I woke to find True-love sobbing. He was involved in the Civil Rights Movement along with many singers of his age. It's so good that he has lived to see this day too. Just watched for myself. Thank you, my friends, for the links. Those other verses -- I'd never heard them here in Aus. What a time of wonder and inspiration. Joy |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: Marc Bernier Date: 24 Jan 09 - 07:35 AM I'm back. I still don't think anyone has behaved inappropriately, as far as making this event accessible to the masses. |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: GUEST,Marc Bernier Date: 24 Jan 09 - 07:32 AM I'm the guest who was being a jerk yesterday morning. It must be time to reset a cookie. |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: Fred McCormick Date: 24 Jan 09 - 07:03 AM I've just watched Pete Seeger leading the crowds at the Obama inauguration. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg0wiOHc9tI . If you haven't seen it yet you haven't lived. |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 23 Jan 09 - 09:10 PM Good piece about this on a blog I came across, with an embedded clip of the song. Interesting blog too, from someone who clearly should be a mudcatter: "Father. Husband. Quaker. Sacred Harp singer. Banjo player. Singer. Bike rider. Lawyer. Writer. Reader. Friend. Brother. Son. Minnesotan. Earthling. Teacher. Student. Guilty bystander." |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: PoppaGator Date: 23 Jan 09 - 12:38 PM I can accept that HBO can claim ownership and prevent dissemination of its own footage of the concert, the high-quality, professionally-edited video that went out on their network. I cannot accept their censorship of "amateur" videos taken at the event that may have been posted on YouTube, or on people's personal websites and Facebook/Myspace pages, etc. ****************** Still no answers, or even guesses, as to the tambourine player's identity? I was sure we'd have learned about him by now... |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: GUEST Date: 23 Jan 09 - 08:27 AM So! I have a neighbor who doesn't own a TV. Should the financial backers of this event made sure he had access to one? I'v another friend who lives in a cabin with no electricity, (or running water). Maybe these corporations should have run power to his abode? I think a reasonable effort was made to make this broadcast accessible to everyone who was willing to make an effort to access it.
Thanks. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: Noreen Date: 22 Jan 09 - 07:50 AM "This Land is Your land" at wikipedia |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: GUEST,Derek Schofield Date: 21 Jan 09 - 08:24 PM < check out "This Land is Your land" on wikipedia ... gives several alternative verses to the ones usually sung, and suggests who wrote them. Interestingly, Pete, Tao and Bruce sang 2 of the usual verses, (missed one out), 1 that Woody recorded / wrote but which is not usually sung, one verse that may have been sung /written by Woddy and another one "of unknown origin". In other words, the singers were making a point with the song ... it's not just "wheat fields waving" and "sun was shining" ... the song is also about struggle and freedom. Derek Schofield |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: Bill H //\\ Date: 21 Jan 09 - 07:32 PM Excuse me if I missed a few things in this long thread but the reality is that HBO paid for the rights and asked the Cable companies to show it for "free"---in otherwords open the HBO channel to non-subscribers. Some did (I assume)and some did not(another assumption). I have HBO so was able to see it. My point is let us not blame HBO---they paid for it and they offered it for free. If the cable companies refused then it was their greed and self interest that should be faulted. Bill Hahn |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 21 Jan 09 - 07:25 PM While I'm thinking about it - that last verse - Nobody living can ever stop me As I go walking down Freedom's Highway Nobody living can take it from me This land was made for you and me - was that by Woody or was it added later during the Civil Rights struggle in the 60s? |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 21 Jan 09 - 06:38 PM And that line on the bottom of the manuscript of the song ,that Mark linked to there, says it all: "All you can write is what you see" |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: mark gregory Date: 21 Jan 09 - 06:16 PM Great to be able to see the YouTube clip from Australia too! Pete Seeger certainly deserved to be there and there he was magically pulling in the huge crowd to sing along although his own singing voice has all but disappeared ... just awesome I've put a link on the Union Songs site at http://unionsong.com/seeger.html Mark |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: billhudson Date: 21 Jan 09 - 04:41 PM I am one of tho folks who does not watch TV but heard about it and I am happy that Pete got to do it. It says a handful that Obama had was at the Lincoln Memorial and that Pete and Toa and Bruce were playing their hearts out. When I was I Pete's once I had a copy of Doris Goodwin's book, "Team of Rivals" that I happened to be reading at the time. Pete asked me to see it and he devoured a few pages. Its funny, but sometimes I catch myself calling Toa ,Baby Toa from years ago. |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 21 Jan 09 - 02:51 PM A genuine "Kumbaya Moment"... |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: GUEST,pattyClink Date: 20 Jan 09 - 09:50 PM Sorry to interrupt a good copyright fight, but... It has been FORTY YEARS since I've seen mainstream people belting out folk songs like that. Holy Moley! |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 20 Jan 09 - 09:08 PM Thanks Bill D. I do not consider it hypocritical at all. There are also people who do not own a TV at all. I think this discussion is ignoring the true story - the fact that Pete was able to sing this song with all the verses at the Lincoln Memorial in front of a very large audience. |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: Bill D Date: 20 Jan 09 - 08:58 PM *IF* they had paid for all of the concert and made the whole thing 'pay per view', it would have been sad, but just like pure business. As it was, it looked to many like a hypocritical slight to those who can NEVER hope to get HBO or own a computer, but who do have little TV sets.... That's all I will say about it. |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 20 Jan 09 - 08:50 PM No one ever claimed you are alone. Millions of people also voted for Bush. The definition of "public" event is questionable as this was paid for by private donations. If the event was created from public funds and paid for by taxpayers, you might have a better case. There was no entitlement for this concert. I do agree that it would have been great to have this free on all channels around the globe, but reality is that somebody has to pay for it. It is too simple to say that it would not damage the interests of the artists and organizers without fully knowing what their plans are. |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: Bill D Date: 20 Jan 09 - 08:46 PM lots of views |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: Bill D Date: 20 Jan 09 - 08:36 PM It took be about 15 seconds to do a search and find I was not alone. |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 20 Jan 09 - 08:06 PM I believe public broadcasting of significant public events, including an event like this, is a social good, and that it is in the public interest for a society to organise itself in such a way that this is achieved. And I don't think it is particularly hard to do, or that it need damage the interests of artistes, technicians and organisers. |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 20 Jan 09 - 07:40 PM Sorry McGrath, but I do not see how this is "flawed" in anyway. This was a concert that was put on by donations and selling the rights for the broadcast. I don't know if they put on concerts in your neck of the woods, but "free" concerts are put on in major cities here in the U.S. all the time. Central Park is an example of such a site. Artists like Simon & Garfunkel, Bon Jovi and numerous other artists have performed there for free, but that does not automatically grant a right for everyone to broadcast it. You might see that as a "flaw", but I do not see how. The money that HBO paid helped pay for many of the events that surrounded the inauguration. I think you are using the words "the system" as a catch-all for EVERY system, policy and law. It doesn't work that way. |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 20 Jan 09 - 07:13 PM It's not that HBO were doing anything wrong or illegal or conspiratorial, or breaking the rules of the system. It's just that this showed up a place where the system is flawed. And surely no one would claim, especially in the present crisis, that it isn't a system with some pretty significant flaws? |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 20 Jan 09 - 07:08 PM As you yourself said, HBO had every right to do as they pleased. There is nothing to "defend" as they offered numerous opportunties to view an event that otherwise would have been closed to all. I realize you have a different opinion on what they should have done, but I think we both agree that it was an incredible experience to have Pete Seeger appear at the event and sing the song. It should also be noted that between the broadcast and the assembled crowd, more people probably heard those lyrics than ever before. That is what is important. |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: Bill D Date: 20 Jan 09 - 05:51 PM It was exactly as limited as I said. Not everyone was able to view it 'freely'. We can disagree about how necessary & fair that was. I guess we have exhausted the ways each side can be defended. |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 20 Jan 09 - 04:42 PM Yes Bill, we do disagree on what needs to be emphasized. There are numerous events that occur within the days before the inauguration. The idea that rights to such events are sold is not a new policy, Nor is the idea that broadcasters and cablecasters have exclusive rights to such events. I understand your disapointment, I too would have loved to be able to download and wish even more people had the opportunity to participate. I would hope that you would understand the necessity and fairness of these decisions and realize that this event was not as limited as you have painted it to be. |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker Date: 20 Jan 09 - 02:51 PM 10 mins only to wait for repeat broadcast on UK Sky Arts 1 |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: Bill D Date: 20 Jan 09 - 02:37 PM once again, Ron, we must disagree on what needs to be emphasized. As I said, I am sure what HBO did was legal ....and 'justified' from THEIR point of view. My remarks were not about "entitlement", but about the very IDEA that the rights to such an event should BE sold to someone who would adopt such limited idea of what making it 'freely available' meant. You hardly contradict my disappointment by asserting, as I already knew, that HBO had every right to do as they did. I suspect that if it had been better thought out, other ways could have been found to fund the concert and allow the major networks to show it...and even to allow HBO the rights to replay or sale of DVDs. |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: PoppaGator Date: 20 Jan 09 - 01:47 PM I didn't know about the concert beforehand, and accidentally happened across it halfway-through during the first (live) broadcast. (We do have HBO.) Since then, I've been able to watch a couple of reruns, once in its entirety and then portions later on. We DID watch Pete and Bruce every time, of course. I found it interesting that the best was saved for last, following even Obama's speech. Sounded to me like Pete's grandson Tao provided the predominant vocal. There was one voice sounding out quite prominently above all others, and it was neither Pete's not The Boss's ~ I recognize both of those iconic voices easily. I suppose Pete's voice might be a little weaker than it was years ago, but Bruce could have sung as loud as anyone if he had so chosen. It must have been a decision to let Tao carry the vocal, and he did a very nice job. I also wonder who the tamborine man might have been. No one in this thread has answered so far ~ I hope it does not remain a mystery! |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: Mark Ross Date: 20 Jan 09 - 10:59 AM Here's a link to the Guardian piece In Praise of Pete Seeger Mark Ross |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker Date: 20 Jan 09 - 10:38 AM ..just a reminder that the concert is repeated tonight at 8.00 on UK Sky Arts 1 http://www.skyarts.co.uk/skyarts/obama-presidential-inauguration/ and.. "Additional opportunities to watch this incredible event and enjoy the ecletic range of performances.... 27th Jan at 9pm on Sky Arts 1, 5th Feb at 8pm on Sky Arts 2 or 16th Feb at 9pm Sky Arts 1." |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: GUEST,Derek Schofield Date: 20 Jan 09 - 08:46 AM The editorial in the Guardian newspaper in the UK today featured Pete Seeger, entitled In Praise of Pete Seeger. Read it here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jan/20/obama-inauguration-pete-seeger Derek Schofield |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 19 Jan 09 - 11:24 PM "There are many, many who had neither broadband internet NOR cable TV...which makes HBO's 'gift' a bit shallow, if you ask me." We didn't, but thanks for the input. I realize that people like to have everything handed to them, and they get grumpy when they can't work remotes, but HBO did not have to do anything they did not want to. They made this event available to more people than most inaugural events are given access to, and yet there will always be people who want more. There is no "entitlement" for this event. |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 19 Jan 09 - 11:20 PM "Now, I wonder...if HBO bought the 'rights' to broadcast a free concert, who had the authority to SELL those rights? And why would they? I am fine... I saw it... I even downloaded the Pete Seeger part I wanted, but something smells funny." I'm not sure why everyone is so surprised. The "official" events of the inauguration, including this concert, are put together by the Presidential Inaugural Committee. The events are supported by donors, and the rules for donation are similar to rules for donating to candidates. There are a number of events that are put on by the committee that are not free, some events are by invitation only, and others are open to the public. There are other concerts. Tonight the Disney concert held a "youth" concert. MTV was involved with another affair. They pay for the rights to event. HBO paid for the rights to broadcast yesterdays concert. The money tey paid for that enabled the committee to put on the event. The event drew a crowd that gathered in Washington was estimated at close to 500,000 - and they were able to watch for free. I'm having a real hard time figureing out why everyone feels that HBO needs to give it away for free. This is nothing like giving bonuses to CEO's. It is good to question authority, but it should always be accompanied by reason. I know the conspiracy theorists love to find a problem with such events, but events like this are not new and it is very upfront. I know everyone wants everything for free - but these are the same people who grumble at paying taxes. |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: Bill D Date: 19 Jan 09 - 10:36 PM I have had cable for....ummmm... 6-7 or so years. It was restricted to channels 1-99. About 4-5 years ago, I got a converter box that gave me access to some more channels above 100, but I seldom went above the 111 area, and only rarely to some free movie channels in the 140-160 range. I remembered that I had a listing I got in the mail that showed the layout....so I dug it out of a drawer. Turns out HBO is 301. I do not PAY for HBO, so it is usually blanked out for me. Because no one (that *I* usually listen to) was willing to admit where the 'free' broadcast was, I had to be clever in locating it. (I am fairly clever, so I saw the broadcast). Others have noted the mixed blessing and availability of this program. Had I not had broadband, I could not have easily watched it on the computer...(as Art Thieme notes) ..had I not had that converter box, I could not have watched it on TV. There are many, many who had neither broadband internet NOR cable TV...which makes HBO's 'gift' a bit shallow, if you ask me. Now, I wonder...if HBO bought the 'rights' to broadcast a free concert, who had the authority to SELL those rights? And why would they? I am fine... I saw it... I even downloaded the Pete Seeger part I wanted, but something smells funny. What I really believe is that there were just too many big stars involved for someone to not "make a buck" off the event. Unlike Gov. Rod Blago... 'someone' had better connections and had better sense than to just do a blatant sales job. What HBO did was no doubt officially legal, but then, so was giving bonuses to the CEOs who ran Shearson and their pals.... Who, me? Cynical? naawwwwww.... |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: katlaughing Date: 19 Jan 09 - 07:09 PM He looked like a living embodiment of our history and of our music's history, and of the joy and pride we have every right to feel in both. That he did, LeeJ! |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 19 Jan 09 - 07:02 PM If I wrote a song about Obama, yes of course I'd be happy for anyone who wanted to sing it without paying me money. But that's not the same as "be required", I accept. I can't see that the rather futile gesture of taking down a video clip does anything to protect the rights and welfare of anyone. Doubly futile because it clearly won't work. I'm inclined to think that it's the inauguration itself that won't a "public event" in the sense that that clip is. |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: GUEST,richd Date: 19 Jan 09 - 07:02 PM The rights that cable networks have should surely be different from the rights that indiviaduals have no? What exactly do HBO have rights over- the Woody Guthrie song? Mr Seegers, Springsteen etcs performance of same? The crowd? The performance of the crowd in joining in? The Lincoln Memorial? Mr Seegars gestures inviting the crowd to join in? AHHH the telerecording... what if i do a video recording at the concert then, am I a pirate infringing HBOs rights? What if I do a video of the person next to me joining in with Mr Seegers' voice in the backround, do HBO own that? The idea of a 'public event' and how the performnce of Mr Seeger et al is not one 'really' is interesting, and the contrast between the sentiments of Mr Guthries song, the manner of it's performance, and copyright violation seems to me to be very odd. At the least, I hope HBO are paying handsomly to the estate of Woody Guthrie for the rights and also to those who took part. I fear that mmany people in the USA will never understand the UKs commitment to Public Service Broadcasting and a National Health Service, and that UKers (like me) are bewildered that something so hopeful and rich as the concert should be covered by a cable company, for profit. Profit that depends on excluding people by wether they can pay or not. Its the differnece between 'the right to access' and 'the right to profit'. Can a cable company have 'welfare'? Are the rights of a cable company- recording a crowd and performers- the same as an individual creating a work of art- even a film? |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: Mark Ross Date: 19 Jan 09 - 06:56 PM Does anyone out there know the source of this verse? I have a feeling that it's Petes'. "Maybe you're working just as hard as your able, Living off crumbs from the rich mans' table, Maybe your wondering if it's truth or fable, That this land is made for you and me." He didn't sing it yesterday, but I could swear that I've heard him sing it at some time in the last 50 years.(he also left out the verse that starts; "When the sun comes shining and I was strolling,") Mark Ross |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 19 Jan 09 - 06:54 PM You got that right EJ! |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: Lonesome EJ Date: 19 Jan 09 - 06:48 PM Pete with his knit cap looked like he had just wandered in from trapping beaver, or maybe sailing on a clipper ship. What a great moment for him, and for us, as he symbolized a bridge from Woody Guthrie and the social revolution of the 1930s to Obama and the new century. He looked like a living embodiment of our history and of our music's history, and of the joy and pride we have every right to feel in both. Nobody living can ever stop me, As I go walking that freedom highway; Nobody living can ever make me turn back This land was made for you and me. That stanza pretty much says what the spirit of my country is all about. |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 19 Jan 09 - 06:22 PM Yup McGrath,we do disagree. I feel that Woody was singing about the right to share America's property and wealth and to remove restrictions that prevent everyone from sharing equally in the dream. From what I've read and heard in his songs, I believe he is talking about SHARING and everyone having rights. Let me ask this - if you are a painter and you are inspired to create a painting of Obama, Pete or Bruce at the event - would you be required to give that painting away for free? Woody wanted people to sing his songs and in print encouraged people to sing them without regard to "rights", but Woody did make his living on his songs and performances. A cable network should have rights too - and all the personnel who participated to stage and cablecast the event deserve to have their rights and welfare protected. Sure, it would be a nice gesture to make it available to all around the world, but in the end - this was not a "public event" in the same sense as the actual inauguration is. |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: katlaughing Date: 19 Jan 09 - 05:55 PM I never could find HBO on our channel lineup with cable, not even the digital lineup. But, we only have expanded basic, but even so, it still ought've been on the roll-by schedule. Question, I told my miro program to find the video on youtube, which is did and I told it to save it, but when I try to play it, in miro, I get nothing. How are you all downloading it to keep, if you don't mind saying? |
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Subject: RE: Seeger & Springsteen at Obama Inaugural From: Jeri Date: 19 Jan 09 - 05:51 PM Bill, you should be able to find out what channel's what on the internet, or you could just call the cable company. I did both, but I called the cable guys just to make sure they hadn't put it on some more accessible channel than my search revealed (then I bitched politely). |
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